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Security Forces On Capitol Hill Brace For Potential Violence As Rally In Support Of Insurrectionists Gets Underway; Massive Police Presence For Right-Wing Rally On Capitol Hill; New Documents Reveal Concern Among Capitol Police Officers About Others In The Police After January 6; Texas Mayor Declares Local Emergency, 14,000-Plus Migrants Under Bridge; U.S. Military Admits 10 Civilians Killed In Kabul Airstrike; FDA Vaccine Advisers Back Boosters For Older & High-Risk Americans. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired September 18, 2021 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[12:00:09]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST (on camera): Hello again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. I want to welcome our viewers here in the U.S. and around the world.

WHITFIELD (voice-over): Happening right now, the nation's capital on high alert. A substantial police presence and crowd control measures are in place as demonstrators in support of the mob which stormed the Capitol on January 6th gather in Washington today for a rally. It was only nine months ago that we saw this terrifying scene and so many of this magnitude.

Hundreds of people scaling the walls, breaking windows, storming the hallways of the Capitol, yelling to find Nancy, and threatening to hang Mike Pence as lawmakers and the vice president ran to safety. Capitol Police outnumbered and targeted.

Now, the scene quite different. Barriers and fencing around the Capitol. And hundreds of officers are in position should demonstrations grow violent.

WHITFIELD (on camera): We have a team of correspondents covering every angle of this. Let's begin with Shimon Prokupecz, and the security on the ground. Shimon.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN'S CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER (on camera): Yes. So, Fred, I wanted to come inside the rally area and kind of show you what's going on here. These are all the people gathered. I'd say there's probably more media here at this point than some of the rally- goers.

And then, I just want to show you some other situations, you know, what's going on here is there's a lot of people are gathering, and they are going towards cameras, and just, you know, scouting, whatever it is that they're saying. And then you have the security, you know, that's the big thing here, right? Is the security. The police behind us here -- something may be going on here, because I see police moving.

But what's happening is some of the protesters, the rally goers are out here, and there are actually counter protesters out here as well. And so, that's causing some of the problems.

But I have to tell you, most of this is very peaceful. I just spoke to the police chief about this. And here is what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF ROBERT CONTEE, POLICE CHIEF, METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT: So far, it's pretty much what we expected. We have people who have gathered to express their first amendment rights here, right behind this at the Capitol. And we have some people who oppose the group that has gathered and they're peacefully expressing their first amendment right.

That's what we expected. We facilitate peaceful First amendment assembly, to the extent that, you know, anything else is going to happen throughout the day, we're prepared for that. We've trained for this. We've worked closely with our partners, we have solid intelligence, I believe, and we're really expecting a peaceful first amendment assembly today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PROKUPECZ: And so, Fred, I just wanted -- I came out here to show you what's going on. So, the police here are just trying to separate some of the counter-protesters from the rally-goers.

Here is it looks like someone, a Black Lives Matter supporter, I can't really tell. But the police are trying to move him out of the way to try and sort of prevent any kind of trouble.

And that's what the police have been doing. A lot of these bike officers, that's what they're here to do. They're here to break up some of the counter-protesters, some of the issues with the other faults, we're seeing that unfold here.

But other than this, I have to tell you, it's been mostly peaceful. Police have these dump trucks out here as well to try and help keep some of the crowd back. But here I just want to show you, Fred, here again, they're just trying to move this guy out. So, there's no problems.

So, this is sort of like one of the first things that this type of seeing that we've seen here, since we've been out here. I'm going to let you listen a little too. So. OK, so, they're moving him out and it looks like things are going to be OK.

But as you can see, this is what the police are doing. They're surrounding him, and just trying to get him out of here.

(CROSSTALK)

WHITFIELD: OK, and of course -- yes, of course, Shimon --

PROKUPECZ: So, there you go, Fred. So, that's kind of the scene, hopefully --

WHITFIELD: Right. Go ahead.

PROKUPECZ: Hopefully doesn't escalate much more here. But that's sort of the first incident that we've seen where the police have had to go in and try and stop something from happening.

WHITFIELD: Right. And sometimes it's an issue of permitted versus non- permitted. It's also sometimes in anticipation to try to keep the peace, make sure that there is nothing that escalates from one to the next. So, as you continue to report there, you'll have to follow up with that for us a bit later.

Pete Muntean, you're in another area of the Mall. What do you seeing there?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Not a whole lot of tension here, Fredricka.

We saw a little bit of a scuffle off in the distance earlier. But the bottom line here is that this is not been the event that rally organizers had initially hyped. The permit here being in Union Square was for about 700 people to attend. They said about 500 people registered to be here online.

Look at the crowd right now. Most of this, as Shimon pointed out is primarily members of the media. I would estimate maybe 100 people here rally goers, a very, very small, and very thin crowd. It's still trickling in. So, we don't want to write it off just yet.

[12:05:06]

MUNTEAN: But you can see, this is about as close as somebody can get to the Capitol right now. This is all the bike fence that is out in front of the pond in front of the Capitol. This is as close as you can get flanked by many members of the Capitol Police Department.

Capitol Police Chief Tom Manger says the biggest risk here for violence is by counter protesters. And he says that there were three counter-protests planned. One of them does have a history of violence, although they're not too -- but not much happening in the way of that just yet.

We've seen a couple of counter-protests here, and there are a couple of counter-protesters individually, but nothing huge just yet, Fredricka, mostly quiet and really not a lot of tension.

WHITFIELD: Right. Well, that's good. But Pete, you are in this space on the mall where generally when there are permitted protests, that is about where it is. Very seldom are they ever in the proximity of the steps or any closer to the Capitol than what we saw on -- again, that was not a permitted, you know, demonstration, the January 6th. But --

(CROSSTALK)

MUNTEAN: Right.

WHITFIELD: But where you are right now is a typical space for organized demonstrations or gatherings there on the Mall. So, keep us posted on how things unfold there. Go ahead. Go, Pete.

MUNTEAN: Now, it's important to point out, Fredricka. You know, Congress was in session here on January 6th.

WHITFIELD: Yes, yes, yes.

MUNTEAN: And at September 18th, it's a Saturday, members of Congress are not here. So, it's really -- lawmakers were here then, it's mostly law enforcement now.

WHITFIELD: All right, thanks so much, Pete, for that distinction there.

Marshall Cohen, let's talk to you about Capitol Police, all that they have been under the, you know, and tasked with and what they have endured since January 6th and beyond. But tell us now about what they're up against and what is being discussed.

MARSHALL COHEN, CNN REPORTER (on camera): They have endured a lot, Fred, internally, externally. It's just been a horrible year for them. But there is new reporting, new documents about the internal investigations into possible wrongdoing by some of the Capitol Police officers on January 6th.

I want to be totally clear, hundreds of cops responded bravely, valiantly that day. We're not trying to smear the entire police force. But U.S. Capitol Police announced a few days ago that they had finished their investigations into 40 -- about 40 police officers, and they decided to discipline six of them after determining that some of these officers did things unbecoming of an officer.

Things like taking selfies with rioters, instead of trying to repel them from the building. One of the higher-up officers who got disciplined even told the people under his command not to put on their riot gear, which one of the officers that spoke to internal investigators said they believe may have led to the hospitalization of one of the members of that person's team.

So, look, Fred, it's a bunch of internal strife. Six officers are now getting disciplined. But today is not about the officers. As Pete and Shimon showed you out there, today is supposedly a protest about the rioters, and in support of the rioters.

So, let me just break down for you where things stand in the riot investigation.

COHEN (voice-over): Believe it or not more than 600 people have been charged so far. It's a massive probe. They have made arrests in 44 states in DC. But of those 600, only a few dozen are in jail. Right?

And today's protest, today's demonstration is supposedly in support of the rioters who are in jail. So just keep in mind, it's only a few dozen out of 600. Why are those people in jail? Most of them have been charged with violent crimes, things like assaulting police, taking an aluminum bat to a police officer. Things like that.

And judges heard the evidence, they weighed in after hearing from the defense, ended by the Justice Department, and they decided.

COHEN (on camera): And these few instances, these few dozen rioters who are in jail, the judges decided they are just too dangerous to release. They don't want to run the risk of them coming back to D.C. and participating in another violent event.

WHITFIELD: All right, Marshall Cohen. Thank you so much for that update. And to all our gentlemen out there on the Mall.

Let's talk further about all of this. With me now, a CNN senior law enforcement analyst. Charles Ramsay is also a former police chief commissioner for metropolitan police there in D.C.

Chief always good to see you.

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: (INAUDIBLE) to you.

WHITFIELD: So, yes. So, given what we're seeing right now in our live images of preparedness, and turnout, how are you assessing preparedness and response right now?

RAMSEY: Hello, there's definitely no question. The Capitol Police, the Metropolitan Police are prepared. I mean, I don't -- I can't think of anything else they could do in order to be prepared.

The intelligence information is being shared, they have sufficient resources in terms of personnel, they put up the fencing. They've got the trucks lining First Street, I mean, there's nothing else they could do in order to make sure that we don't have a repeat of January 6th.

[12:10:02]

WHITFIELD: I mean, it is customary for Metropolitan Police, Park Police, Capitol Police, National Guard, all of them to work in concert, particularly in the nation's capital there, Washington, D.C.

RAMSEY: Right.

WHITFIELD: Whether it's about demonstrations, whether it's, you know, joyful gatherings or otherwise. But do you suspect that this is a particularly a much more tense concert -- you know, resources, especially given it comes just nine months after January 6th?

RAMSEY: Well, there's no question about that. I mean, January 6th was unprecedented in a lot of ways. I mean, I never could have imagined that -- at that we'd have a group actually storm and breach security at the U.S. Capitol. I just could not imagine and I'm still angry about it as a matter of fact.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

RAMSEY: So, obviously, they're going to make sure that, that never happens again. And I can guarantee you, nobody's getting in that building today. That's for sure.

WHITFIELD: Right.

RAMSEY: So, you know, it's the result of what happened on January 6th, there's no question about that. And it's a shame that we have to mobilize like that, but it's just the reality of the -- of the world we're in right now. The reality of the politics and the hate and the division that exists in our country today.

WHITFIELD: Yes. I mean, you talked about you feeling angry and still feeling very angry. I mean -- I mean, let's, let's be, you know, blunt. I mean, the nation experienced trauma from what happened January 6th. And those who were on Capitol Hill experienced trauma, you know, of unbelievable proportions.

So, I wonder -- I mean, I know you still interact with a lot of Metropolitan Police and Capitol Police personnel, what are some of them feeling right now, who have not only still had a difficult time getting over what they experienced January 6th. But now, they might be out there today, on the Mall, in anticipation of this gathering -- a gathering of people who are pledging their support for the insurrectionists.

RAMSEY: You know, it's one of the things that you have to learn to contend with. And in policing, you may be called upon to, you know, do something very similar to what you did before. And you still haven't gotten over that incident.

And whether it's a member of the department, a friend of yours, who got shot and killed in the line of duty, and you have to go on duty the next day. Or you experienced something like they did on January 6th, and I'm sure it brings back unpleasant memories for many of them.

But they're dedicated, they took an oath, and they're living up to that oath, and they will be there and they will do their job, and they'll do it professionally.

WHITFIELD: All right. Well, of course, we're all praying that today will be peaceful. And we'll see nothing like a repeat of January 6th or anything close to it.

RAMSEY: But Fred, just very quickly.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

RAMSEY: That's true, and that's going to happen today. That doesn't mean the issue goes away.

WHITFIELD: Yes --

RAMSEY: September 18th is not going to stop what we have going on in this country right now.

WHITFIELD: You're right.

RAMSEY: It's just not going to end today, unfortunately.

WHITFIELD: Yes, yes. The divisiveness and other threats to -- you know, this country and democracy are real and big.

RAMSEY: Yes.

WHITFIELD: Charles Ramsey, thank you so much. Always good to see you. Appreciate it. Be well.

RAMSEY: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right. Still to come. Desperation at the border. The Department of Homeland Security announcing plans today to ramp up deportation flights to Haiti, as the situation in Del Rio, Texas becomes even more dire.

Plus, tragic mistake. Details on the investigation into how a U.S. strike targeting ISIS-K went so terribly wrong in Afghanistan. We're live from Kabul next.

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[12:17:38]

WHITFIELD: All right, welcome back. An overwhelming situation unfolding at the U.S.-Mexico border. Officials there say right now over 14,000 migrants are packed under a Del Rio international bridge. Right there, you see in the images. All of them being held for processing by U.S. immigration agents.

The situation is so dire U.S. Customs and Border Protection is temporarily shutting down the port of entry.

Del Rio's mayor issuing a local emergency disaster declaration. CNN correspondent Rosa Flores is in Del Rio for us. So, Rosa, what is the situation? How are people being bused, processed? Are they being fed? I mean, what is happening?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Well, Fred, DHS announcing their six-point strategy within the last hour in response to the influx of migrants. In essence, in response to the humanitarian crisis that's happening just beyond this border wall. If you look closely, you'll see beyond those law enforcement vehicles, that's where more than 14,000 migrants mostly Haitians, according to officials have been waiting to be processed by U.S. immigration authorities. They're waiting in squalor, a lot of them sleeping on the dirt -- in the dirt. We've talked to some of those migrants.

Now, according to DHS, here is what's happening in the next 72 hours. They are ramping up the number of removal and expulsion flights to Haiti to try to move some of these migrants back to their country of origin.

They're also doing a few other things. As you mentioned, they close the bridge here in Del Rio. They are rerouting the traffic to Eagle Pass to make sure that they secure this area.

They are also trying to talk to Haiti and other countries that are either the source or a transit country for these individuals. And what that means is, for example, I talked to one Haitian who says that they had been in Chile for a while, and after that, they flew to Mexico then came here to the United States.

So, the Biden administration trying to talk to some of these transit countries to see if they'll take these Haitian migrants back. The other thing that's happening is that ICE and the U.S. Coast Guard are also getting involved. They are trying to move some of these migrants to other processing facilities along the border.

[12:20:05]

FLORES: There are many other processing facilities here along the border. We know that some of the ones that have been ramped up recently are in the Rio Grande Valley. Here in Del Rio, of course, they don't have a lot of those capabilities.

One of the other things, Fred, that the DHS says that they're doing is they're trying to ramp up the humanitarian aid.

We had reported earlier that what they're doing here is the federal government, they're providing towels, water, and also toilets. They're trying to do a little bit more, of course, because this is also a public health concern when you have more than 14,000 people practically living under a bridge. Fred.

WHITFIELD: Yes, an extraordinary number. All right, Rosa Flores, thank you so much.

Let's talk about all of this with my next guest, Arelis Hernandez, a correspondent in Texas for The Washington Post.

Arelis, so good to see you. You've been covering this situation at the border for some time. But how did this unfold in this manner?

ARELIS HERNANDEZ, TEXAS CORRESPONDENT, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, it's actually hard to tell. This wasn't a caravan, like the videos you saw maybe from two summers ago, this was, you know, different groups of people who decided that this was the moment, this was their chance to travel north, whether they had been in South America for a long time, or had recently arrived in Central America or some other entry point.

And they came by bus. It just happened to converge on Ciudad Acuna, which is across the river from here in Del Rio, and came in at the same time, and it's been steadily building out here.

Del Rio is, is one of these places that is a preferred crossing spot for people who are coming from South America generally. And so, you know, through whatever networks, they all just happen to come here at the same time.

WHITFIELD: And have you been able to tell or even talk to people to find out among the 14,000, you know, in this particular, you know, surge of people, based on what you just explained, has it been their expectation that they were going to get entry?

I mean, what were their expectations about what would happen once they all converged like this in this --

(CROSSTALK)

HERNANDEZ: Well, yes. They have been in touch with their families here in the United States, other Haitians who have been, you know, making it through these particular crossing points in months earlier.

And so, I think in talking to some of the Haitian migrants, their expectation was that they would surrender to Border Patrol, that they would be placed in a process, you know, given, you know, a court date, and that they could be on their way, which has been happening quite a bit recent months.

A number of families that actually get expelled has been dropping precipitously for months.

WHITFIELD: Except now, it is being reported that the U.S. is trying to work on having upwards of maybe even eight flights a day to Haiti. And that reportedly, Haiti has accepted three flights per day.

So, now, how is that news, sitting with the many hundreds and now 1,000s who are hoping they were going to be processed for entry? They now might be put on a plane.

HERNANDEZ: Yes, know that's certainly going to be incredibly discouraging news. I mean, to even get here to do this point, and to realize that you're going to have to be waiting under a bridge and sleeping on the ground without, you know, security of food or water was an initial disappointment, which I heard it communicated from many of these migrants.

But to learn that they might be placed on deportation flights, you know, I don't know if it will cause panic or cause them to reevaluate. These are people who've been planning these trips for a very, very long time and have survived countless other indignities and dangers along the way, you know, even walking through jungles in Panama.

So, I imagined there will be a recalculation of some sort. And maybe we'll see people continue to move into other parts of Mexico and to other crossing points to get to what it is that they want.

WHITFIELD: Wow. And then what about local leaders there in the Del Rio Texas area? What have they said to you about the kind of support they need, resources they need, concerns that they have?

HERNANDEZ: Yes, Del Rio is a small community. This is not something they're used to, although they've gotten used to it here in the last several months, at least, since January. They are really concerned.

The number of people here represent about a third of the population here in Del Rio, and they are just not -- they just don't have the capability to deal with it. There is one NGO in town that helps migrants to get on their way, you know, purchasing flights, and bus tickets to other cities in the United States.

But for the most part, they don't have the space, they don't have the capability, they don't -- they don't have the volunteer population to be able to help Border Patrol deal with the situation the way that they would say in, you know, the Rio Grande Valley where you have Catholic charities and other groups that can help with this kind of thing.

WHITFIELD: Arelis Hernandez, thank you so much for painting a picture for us, helping us get a better understanding. You along with our correspondent Rosa Flores there to give us a really clear view of what's happening. Appreciate it.

HERNANDEZ: Thank you.

[12:24:57]

WHITFIELD: All right, coming up. If you are over 65 or at high risk of severe illness, you could soon be able to get a COVID booster shot. Details on the FDA's latest recommendation straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, the Pentagon now admits an airstrike in Kabul during the final days of the U.S. pull-out killed 10 civilians including seven children. Initially, the military said the drone strike targeted a member of the ISIS-K terror group who they thought may have been planning an attack on the Kabul airport.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. KENNETH F. MCKENZIE JR., COMMANDER, UNITED STATES CENTRAL COMMAND: I offer my profound condolences to the family and friends of those who were killed.

[12:30:00]

This strike was taken in the earnest belief that it would prevent an imminent threat to our forces and the evacuees at the airport, but it was a mistake. And I offer my sincere apology.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: The Pentagon says the car was under surveillance for four or five minutes before the strike and the order to launch was based on reasonable certainty. CNN's International diplomatic editor Nic Robertson is in Kabul for us. So Nic, this has been a stunning reversal for this administration. What happened?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, this vehicle was being tracked. The Pentagon had intelligence that a Corolla vehicle, a white Corolla vehicle may be used by ISIS as a vehicle borne explosive device, the bit as they call them. They tracked, they found one.

They found it because they were watching a location that they believe to be connected to ISIS. They tracked it for eight hours. And then when it went back to a compound, they targeted it, believing that the things that were being unloaded were bombs or bomb parts or bomb making equipment.

The reality turns out to be entirely different. The man who was driving the vehicle was an NGO, a U.S. NGO, under contract with the State Department. I spoke to his brother today in the compound where really nothing has changed. And no one in the family has a heart to clear up and to tidy up and to try to turn it back into a family home again.

He told me, look, you know, this announcement by the Pentagon, they knew that their family were innocent. He said we knew they weren't terrorists, but they're relieved and happy that that is a public, publicly announced conclusion by the Pentagon because that sort of clears their name, so is happy about that.

But he couldn't understand how the vehicle when it was targeted, was targeted because it had five children in it. He doesn't understand how the operators of the drone wouldn't have seen that. And he wants justice. He wants justice for his daughter who was killed three years old, for his brother who was killed, for his nephews and nieces who were killed in the attack.

And he thinks that the drone operators or their commanding officers or whomever there should be a questioning and then they should go through a legal process. And they should get the family or should hope to see justice through the U.S. legal process in a courtroom.

WHITFIELD: All right, Nic Robertson, keep us posted there from Kabul, Afghanistan. Appreciate it.

All right, all in this new week coming up, CNN is spotlighting innovative people who are smashing long standing barriers. Here's a preview of our champions for change series.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Join your favorite CNN anchors for a special week.

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Immigrants enrich our country and they're proving it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sharing stories of change makers.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: This is one of the most devastating and yet preventable issues of our day.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: He helps the defenseless learn to defend themselves.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Theatre teaches courage, confidence, trust.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: She saw a need in every day she sets out to fulfill that need.

WHITFIELD: He is using scuba diving for better environment.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: She is a trailblazing black woman.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Preserving the ocean for our children.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Empowering women for financial independence.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: No one should drowned because they don't know how to swim.

Very good, very good, very good.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Small steps can lead to a big impact.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: We are hope can help kids in school and beyond.

WHITFIELD: He is a champion.

CABRERA: She is a champion.

BLACKWELL: -- for change.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Change.

KEILAR: Change.

GUPTA: Change.

[12:33:43]

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Champions for change all next week on CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: The FDA's independent panel of vaccine advisors is now recommending COVID booster shots for some vulnerable Americans, experts voting in support of Emergency Use Authorization of a third dose of Pfizer's vaccine for people 65 and older and those at high risk of severe infection.

The group decided against recommending third shots for all Americans 16 and over concluding that it's just too soon to offer booster shots for everyone. The FDA expresses several concerns about the lack of safety and efficacy data for booster shots in young adults.

Joining me right now to discuss is Dr. Mike Saag the Associate Dean of Global Health at the University of Alabama in Birmingham, always good to see you Dr. Saag. So are you disappointed or are you in agreement?

DR. MIKE SAAG, ASSOCIATE DEAN OF GLOBAL HEALTH, UNIV. OF ALABAMA AT BIRMINGHAM: I'm mostly in agreement. We said from the beginning, we're going to follow the data, the data for people over the age of 65 and those with underlying conditions and those people who especially have immunocompromised states are the ones who we have the data for to show this.

We don't have the data yet for people who are younger, who don't have these conditions. So they're following the data and this is a work in progress. Expect this to be an incremental improvement for a third shot. We're going to be in this for a long haul.

WHITFIELD: So you will encourage your patients who are at risk individuals or people 65 years and older to follow the recommended FDA approval, right, on that third dose?

SAAG: Absolutely.

WHITFIELD: All right, so but will this make it any harder to convince the unvaccinated to get vaccinated?

[12:40:01]

SAAG: It might. And it's mostly because a lot of folks just aren't used to the usual process by which we approve vaccines. I mean, look at influenza, we know now that people over the age of 65 get a little bit of a higher dose. Well, that didn't happen overnight. That was a decade or more of research that incrementally grew.

And it was just done under the cover from the general public, people didn't watch it happening. This has a huge spotlight on it. So everybody is watching how the sausage is made, if you will, in terms of how science moves forward. And people who might not understand it might get confused about the messaging, but it's really simple. If you're unvaccinated get vaccinated. If you are vaccinated, wait your turn for the booster.

WHITFIELD: Hey, let's talk about the decision of rationing care, a lot of hospitals across the country are having to make now. I mean, a hospital in Montana has been so overwhelmed that they were forced to start rationing care earlier this week.

And again, you know, it's not just Montana, but we've heard these stories from many states, what are your thoughts about the choices that they are having to make because their medical staff might be overstressed or they may not having enough beds? I mean, there are a host of reasons why they are rationing care.

SAAG: It's our worst nightmare. It's what a lot of us were thinking if we turn the clock back to April of 2020. Remember, we went into lockdown, and all the public health officials were worried about being swamped by COVID. It happened in Milan, Italy, in March and April of 2020.

We saw that. And we hoped it would never happen in the U.S. It is happening now case out of Coleman, Alabama, a guy with a heart attack or heart disease had to go through 43 different hospitals to find an ICU bed finally got there ended up dying.

This is -- these stories are going to continue to mount and here's the tragedy. Most of the beds that are being filled right now, especially in the ICU are unvaccinated people, 90 percent, 90 percent. So if we can imagine the world where everybody was vaccinated, we wouldn't be having these problems.

And so what we need to do is really push hard on everyone to get that first vaccine. We can talk about boosters, but we still need to protect ourselves, not only to protect the people from COVID, but also if the beds get filled up, it affects everyone.

WHITFIELD: Wow. And if this is the case, right now, as we head into, I mean, we're only days away from the fall season, the winter months where the expectations are relatively high about, you know, spike in cases. What's your concern in the short term about the availability of health care to meet the demands that COVID is placing on us?

SAAG: I am concerned. It's what I've worried about what all public health officials have worried about. The problem right now is that we're still in the heart of a public health emergency, underscore that, emergency. We've been in it for a while. The problem is the public is tired of hearing it. They've gone tone deaf to the messaging, that doesn't change the problem. The problem was still there.

Hopefully we can come together as a country. Fight this infection as if we're fighting a common enemy, which we are. And get our folks vaccinated to keep people out of the hospital. It's simple things we can do. We're going to mask when we're in public avoiding large crowds. Everybody knows the drill. Let's just do it and relieve the hospitals of this pressure so that everyone can have a spot when they get sick.

WHITFIELD: Right and stop prolonging this, I mean, in perpetuity, it seems. All right Dr. Mike Saag, thank you so much. Good to see you. Stay well.

SAAG: Thank you, you too.

WHITFIELD: All right, still ahead. Toxic 14, a stunning new report this week revealed just how damaging Instagram can be for young people and how the company knew all about it.

But first, the United States has the highest incarceration rate in the world. And when offenders are released, they face challenges about that all amount to having a difficult time being able to earn a living. Today's CNN Hero is a personal trainer on a mission to help other formerly incarcerated men and women.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HECTOR GUADALUPE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, A SECOND U FOUNDATION: After surviving prison, you come home thinking you're able to start over. You want to be part of the society, but there's just so many layers of discrimination, boxes. You have to get through just to get an opportunity. Society thinks, oh, you should just go get a job and it's not that easy. Once you have a record, nothing is set up for them to win.

And up, one. Good. Right back under.

At A Second U Foundation we get formerly incarcerated men and women national certifications in job placements in boutique gyms and corporate health clubs throughout New York City. You got to be thinking outside the box. You can't give someone a mop and say this is your future. Take minimum wage and deal with it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There you go, you got it.

[12:45:01]

GUADALUPE: When you provide people with livable wages, they're able to be productive members of society.

Look at that belly.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, almost there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow.

GUADALUPE: And that's why we are A Second U. We want to give you your second chance at life.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Wow. He is seriously speaking the truth there. For more information visit CNNHeroes.com.

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[12:50:00]

WHITFIELD: All right, welcome back. A damning report by "The Wall Street Journal" this week, the topic Facebook and Instagram and how harmful they may actually be to our mental health especially to teenagers, "The Wall Street Journal" published leaked internal documents that they say prove Facebook is aware of the platform's negative effects.

Top Facebook officials were warned by their own researchers that because of Instagram, I'm quoting now, we make body image issues worse for one in three teen girls, end quote.

Joining us right now Riana Elyse Anderson, she's a psychologist at the University of Michigan's Department of Health Behavior and Health Education. And Josh Golin is the executive director of Fairplay, a group trying to stop a planned release of an Instagram specifically for kids under the age of 13. Good to see both of you.

Riana, the negative effects of social media continue to be studied. But from your view, what are these internal documents say about how Facebook even sees itself, I mean, to have such an internal review launched?

RIANA ELYSE ANDERSON, PSYCHOLOGIST, UNIV. OF MICHIGAN DEPT. OF HEALTH BEHAVIOR & HEALTH EDUCATION: Sure. So we know that Facebook is a company that gets a benefit from their users using their services more frequently.

So it's one thing to say that they're incentivizing folks with addictive product, which they are but to actually launch something like this is something that's been leading for the past 10 years or so where there's overwhelming evidence from psychology literature, saying that the more time that youth are spending online, especially those three hours a day or more, that it's leading to increased depression, anxiety, and loneliness. And these factors contribute to suicidality.

So Fred, we're talking about a company that knows what's going on. And doing this type of research is really just corresponding with the research we already have in the literature.

WHITFIELD: So then Riana, what is this say to you about their responsibility that Facebook who owns Instagram is willing to take or what are they going to do with this responsibility?

ANDERSON: Yes, as you have already indicated, we know that up to four out of 10 girls are saying that they're experiencing body image issues. This is not just to girls in particular. Boys are also saying it's to a lesser degree, but to some degree as well.

We're looking at one in 10 youth who are experiencing suicidal ideation as a result of IG and Facebook. So when you're thinking about their responsibility, in the same ways that all technology, which in some facets can be good, we have to understand what are the elements that are so challenging within the app.

We know that there are things that are causing people to stay in the app to spend more time to think that these are normal things, filters, things of that sort. So we know that there are toxic elements that are a part of it. The responsibility then falls on IG and Facebook to say, do we want a better product and not just better for our bottom line, our dollar sign, do we want a better product for the world?

WHITFIELD: So Josh, Instagram did put out a statement in response to these reports, saying and I'm quoting now, we're starting to understand the types of content some people feel may contributed to negative social comparison.

And we're exploring ways to prompt them to look at different topics if they're repeatedly looking at this type of content. So Josh, I mean, Facebook purchased Instagram back in 2012. Is it doing enough right now to respond to these findings of negative effects?

JOSH GOLIN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, FAIRPLAY: Absolutely not. I mean, first of all, when the researchers brought these findings to senior leadership at Facebook, they were ignored. Facebook, cast doubt on the research that Dr. Anderson mentioned, and said that the jury's still out on what the effects are, when they were sitting on this research that they knew.

Now that they've been caught red handed in these documents have been leaked, they're, you know, they're saying these things, but actions speak much louder than words. And they've known this for many years, and they haven't done anything.

And in fact, when presented with this research, one of the things that they decided to do is that we should extend our brand, and we should extend our product, and we should create an Instagram for even younger kids. So I don't think we can trust Facebook to do the right thing here. I think it's absolutely up to regulators and Congress to force Facebook to do things because this is a company that has shown time and time again, that it will throw children under the bus for its bottom line.

WHITFIELD: So then doctor, you know, who do you think bear -- think bears a lot of the responsibility here? Is it the company that obviously is in business to make a profit? Is it Facebook, Instagram? Does it mean that, you know, parents have to be equipped with more information to help, you know, come between their kids, and this what you call an addiction? Or, you know, is it children need to be better educated about what they're getting into? I mean, what is one to do here?

[12:55:00]

ANDERSON: Yes, you know, Fred, it's something to say that children should be the ones to bear the responsibility for improving their lives, right? Like in what space do we do that full effort? Where do we say that children should be the ones who know what to do? We understand that neuroplasticity for children is not developed until well into their 20s.

So, even as children are going off to college, we still have some leeway. We still understand there are some decisions that these children and adolescents are making that are not going to be as wise as we would hope them to be. So why on earth would we expect 13 year olds to say this is enough for me today, I'm going to log off.

So certainly we need families to talk about it. We need teachers. We need all folks who are helping children in their developmental process to work with children to understand when it is time to log off if they even need to be on. But certainly when we're thinking about the onus that Facebook has, in having certain, again, in-app abilities, and to consider opening something for children younger than 13, the science about neuroplasticity, neurodevelopment is clear, it should not be made that readily available.

WHITFIELD: Boy, it's a scary landscape out there for sure. All right, Riana Elyse Anderson, Josh Golin, thanks to both of you, appreciate it.

GOLIN: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: And we'll be right back.

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