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Historic All-Civilian Spaceflight Returning To Earth; Police Outnumber Protesters As Rally For Capitol Rioters Falls Flat; CIA Warning About Civilian Casualties Came Seconds Too Late; Rally In Support Of Insurrectionists Ends Peacefully In D.C.; FDA Panel Recommends Pfizer Boosters For People 65 Plus; Searching For The Origins Of COVID-19. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired September 18, 2021 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:05]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Godspeed Inspiration 4.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're really proud to share this experience with everyone. We know how fortunate we are to be up here.

KRISTIN FISHER, CNN SPACE AND DEFENSE CORRESPONDENT: After three days in space, the all-civilian crew of SpaceX's Inspiration 4 is heading home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you've come before and many are about to follow, the door is opening now. It's pretty incredible.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The C.I.A. warned that civilians including children were in the area just seconds before a U.S. missile strike killed 10 in Kabul.

GEN. KENNETH MCKENZIE, JR., COMMANDER, CENTCOM: We thought this was a good lead. We were wrong.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Family of missing woman Gabby Petito says her fiancee isn't missing, he is hiding.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is another twist in the story for sure.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. My family want Gabby to be found safe. She's like, sister and my children love her. And all I want is for her to come home safe and sound and this to be just a big misunderstanding.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: I'm Pamela Brown in Washington on this Saturday. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM and it's great to have you along with us on this busy Saturday.

We want to begin with breaking news from outer space. The world's first all-civilian spaceflight is making its way home right now. As we speak, splashdown for the Inspiration 4 mission is about an hour away. And these are not the kinds of resumes that you would normally see for

a space crew: Geologist and community college teacher, a physician's assistant, an aerospace company employee who won his seat in a raffle, and to what may be a sign of where things are headed, a billionaire CEO who put up his own money to make all of this happen with the help of SpaceX.

All of them are orbiting the Earth after blasting off Wednesday night without a professional astronauts on board.

So let's go straight to CNN's Kristin Fisher at Cape Canaveral, Florida. Kristin, a very busy hour ahead. Take us through what's coming.

FISHER: Well, Pam, what we're about to witness is going to be a very jarring event for the amateur astronauts on board. When the first Dragon crew did this, Doug Hurley and Bob Behnken, they described it as feeling like they were inside of an animal.

They said that every separation event felt as though they were getting whacked in the back of a chair with a baseball bat. And keep in mind, these are professional NASA astronauts. Those were military test pilots who had been training their entire lives for this.

Now, compare that to this crew, the Inspiration 4 crew and they had no idea that they were going to be in space until just a few months ago. So, this is all going to start in about 10 minutes. The first thing that's going to happen is the unpressurized trunk of the spacecraft is going to jettison away from the Dragon capsule, then the big deorbit burn is going to begin and once those thrusters fire, there is no turning back.

Then the nose cone is going to close protecting the Dragon capsule from the extremely high temperatures that it is going to experience on re-entry and we're talking temperatures of up to 3,500 degrees Fahrenheit, and that's going to cause this fiery plasma to engulf the Dragon spacecraft as it makes its way back down to Earth, and it will also cause a six-minute-long communication blackout so no one on the ground will be able to communicate with the crew for six minutes.

Then the first thing we'll really be able to see are those smaller drogue parachutes deploying, then the four big main parachutes which will slow the capsule down to just about 15 or 16 miles per hour before splashing down just off the Coast of Florida at around 7:06 p.m. Eastern Time and at that point, the Inspiration 4 crew should be safely back on Earth after the adventure of a lifetime.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CROWD: Three, two, one.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ignition and lift off.

FISHER (voice over): Commander Jared Isaacman and the crew of SpaceX's Inspiration 4 giving the world a glimpse into their historic three-day trip to space. JARRED ISAACMAN, COMMANDER, SPACEX INSPIRATION 4: Welcome everybody to

Crew Dragon Resilience.

FISHER (voice over): Hayley Arceneaux, a physician's assistant back on Earth, explaining some of the scientific experiments the crew has been conducting as they orbit at an altitude even higher than the International Space Station.

HAYLEY ARCENEAUX, INSPIRATION 4 CREW MEMBER: It's been really interesting to see how fluid shifts with this microgravity environment.

FISHER (voice over): Sian Proctor, a geology professor, poet, and painter, showing off some of the art she has made while weightless.

SIAN PROCTOR, INSPIRATION 4 CREW MEMBER: My art of the Dragon capsule being carried by a dragon off of Earth.

FISHER (voice over): And Chris Sembroski, an engineer and musician playing the ukulele.

It's a journey less than 600 humans have ever experienced, but the crew of Inspiration 4 has a way of making it feel almost ordinary, as if anyone could do it.

[18:05:15]

FISHER (voice over): And that's precisely the point.

ISAACMAN: If you've come before and many are about to follow, the door is opening now. It's pretty incredible.

ARCENEAUX: We can see the entire perimeter of the Earth, which is so beautiful.

FISHER (voice over): Opening up space travel to the masses, and making it more affordable with the invention of reusable rockets. It's been Elon Musk's goal ever since he founded SpaceX nearly 20 years ago.

And now for the first time, NASA had little to do with a crewed launch from the Kennedy Space Center.

PHIL MCALISTER, DIRECTOR OF COMMERCIAL SPACEFLIGHT, NASA: We don't have a very big role here. This is SpaceX's show and we're really happy for them.

FISHER (voice over): It's a milestone years in the making, as the government's decades long monopoly on sending humans into orbit ends.

Isaacman, the founder and CEO of Shift4 Payments funded the entire trip and put up the first half of $200 million that he is hoping to raise for St. Jude Children's Research Hospital.

ISAACMAN: And we know how fortunate we are to be up here. We're giving all of our time right now to science research and some ukulele playing and trying to raise some good awareness for an important cause for us back on Earth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looks like a smooth ride for the crew.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FISHER (on camera): Now, after splashdown, the very first thing that we'll see are two fast boats racing up within two minutes of splashdown to make sure that the crew and the capsule are safe. Then the main recovery ship will arrive, but that'll take about 30 minutes and once it's there, it will pull the capsule out of the water and only then will they open up the hatch and get those astronauts out.

From there, the astronauts will fly via helicopter back to the Kennedy Space Center and the capsule will eventually be brought back right here to Port Canaveral in Cape Canaveral.

One more thing, Pam, you know, something like this, a splashdown, it is not uncommon for astronauts to get quite seasick and so SpaceX says they have contingencies in place. They have the appropriate hardware as they call it and by appropriate hardware, they mean vomit bags, like you would see on an airplane -- Pam.

BROWN: Just call it like it is, vomit bags.

Kristin, your enthusiasm is palpable. I can't wait for this. We're going to be checking back with you as we near splashdown. Thank you so much.

And also former NASA astronaut Mike Massimino will join us to look at all the ways this mission is like none before in the quest to explore space.

So what if far right Trump supporters threw a big party and no one came? It would probably look a lot like this right here. A few hundred people gathered this afternoon for the Justice for J6 rally. The goal: Support the insurrectionists charged in the deadly January 6th Capitol riot.

Large numbers of police officers and news people largely outnumbered the number of supporters there as you see in the video. The event ended after only a couple of hours, mostly without incident.

But the goal remains, downplay the violence and horrors of the January 6th attack on the Capitol.

A reminder, five deaths are directly tied to it, and about 140 police officers were injured during the siege. At least four officers who were there that day have since died by suicide. Some of their loved ones say the overwhelming scale of violence, hatred, and powerlessness has haunted them.

One protester today when shown some of the violent clashes suggested the police were to blame.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: So you don't think what they're doing here is an assault.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He could easily back up.

QUESTION: That's a police officer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. Yes, he could easily back up.

QUESTION: So, it is the officer's fault.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, this is not assault.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Among those who protected the U.S. Capitol from the mob of insurrectionists on January 6th, Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick. He was rushed to the hospital that night in critical condition and died the next day. The coroner said he had suffered two strokes directly related to the events of that horrible day.

And Sandra Garza was Brian Sicknick's longtime partner and she joins me now.

Sandra, thank you for making time for us. I just imagine, it is just so difficult for you to hear that, what that young man just said in that video, see what played out today. And I imagine just all of the pain you've been feeling is magnified by this, just by this sort of blatant and partisan effort to minimize what happened, minimize what happened to your partner.

Maybe no example more glaring than this statement on Thursday from former President Trump supporting the insurrectionists' charge of the deadly attack, quote: "Our hearts and minds are with the people being persecuted so unfairly related to the January 6th protests concerning the rigged presidential election." And then in caps, quote, "Justice will prevail."

What is your reaction?

[18:10:17]

SANDRA GARZA, BRIAN SICKNICK'S LONGTIME PARTNER: When I heard that, I was enraged. I was enraged. He knows that that's an outright lie, that the election was not rigged. That's number one. He is asking for violence again, by doing that.

And to say that these people that stormed the Capitol are persecuted is absolutely ridiculous. Those people made a choice to be there. Some of those people made a choice to engage in sadistic violence and hurt officers brutally. So much so that some of these officers are going to be impacted for the rest of their lives with traumatic brain injuries, you know, severe other physical injuries, and there's a ripple effect with that. It impacts the families, their children.

And then of course, the officers that, you know, felt such desperation to take their lives. I mean, you know -- and then for him to say that his hearts and minds or our hearts and minds are with these people, this violent mob, is just despicable. It's despicable.

Where was his heart and mind when my partner, Brian Sicknick was dead? I still have not heard from Trump. I still have not gotten a letter. And I had said that I would be willing to meet with him which my offer still stands because I want answers. The Sicknick family deserves answers.

I said he was too chicken. I still stand by that.

He wanted to say that Officer Gonell, Officer Hodges, Officer Fanone, and Officer Dunn, where -- and I won't even use the vulgar word that he used, but they were, you know, wusses for showing true human emotion recounting the horror that they experienced that day.

Well, as far as I'm concerned, Trump is the biggest wuss there is because he cannot face me, and he cannot face the Sicknick family and he cannot face those officers and he cannot face any of the officers' families that took their lives because of the tragedy of that day that he is responsible for inciting.

BROWN: And to be clear, you were a Trump supporter.

GARZA: Yes, I was.

BROWN: As was Brian.

GARZA: Yes, we -- Brian was and I was and that's what makes it even more disgusting.

BROWN: You just felt betrayed?

GARZA: I do. Yes. And I feel very betrayed by the majority of the Republican Party. As a matter of fact, I still continue to get mail from the Republican National Committee addressed to Brian saying "Please, don't abandon us. We still want your support."

I mean, it's incredible, and yet they completely abandoned him. And, a lot of them wouldn't meet with me when I went up to Capitol Hill that day to ask for their support for the January 6th Commission. So ...

BROWN: I'm curious, clearly, you put a lot of blame on former President Trump.

GARZA: Yes.

BROWN: But then you hear what we just heard from that protester that was out there today, I should say demonstrator, talking to the cameras, downplaying what officers were going through, and was putting the blame on these officers.

I wonder when you look at that, where does your anger -- where is your anger directed? Is it directed at the leadership like these Republicans in these high up positions who aren't speaking out, like Donald Trump? Or is it the people who are actually taking the bait who are actually buying this? Or is it both? How do you feel? GARZA: I mean, I would say the majority of my anger is at the

leadership because they are the ones with the world microphone. They have a lot of power. They could stop a lot of this. They could educate the public on the facts, and they're refusing to do that.

However, I still hold the people, these demonstrators, the people who were there at the Capitol on January 6th, that day, I hold them responsible because they were aware enough of what they were doing to hide after the fact when they knew that the F.B.I. was looking for them.

So I've heard a lot of them say, oh, well, I was caught up in the moment, you know, or I was doing what the President asked me to do.

[18:15:01]

GARZA: Well, you know what, they weren't that caught up in the moment because they knew enough to hide from the F.B.I. and local law enforcement, when you know, the day was over with, so I don't want to hear any of it. So, I do hold them responsible, yes.

BROWN: So before we go, quickly, you are a licensed clinical social worker. You've said that you and Brian bonded over the shared value of helping people.

GARZA: Yes.

BROWN: Do you feel like that is becoming a lost value in today's hateful political divisions?

GARZA: It is certainly very depressing. Yes, it's very depressing. I certainly will not stop helping people. I mean, I love my profession. I love being a social worker. That's what I feel like I was born to do.

But at the same time, as a licensed clinical social worker, you know, my studies, my career, I'm also taught that we are also, you know, personally responsible for our actions. And so you know, but yes, absolutely. I want to help as many people as I can, so that will never die.

And I also want to keep Brian's legacy alive, and I can do that by helping others and continuing to do what he loved to do in this way,

BROWN: And you are certainly doing that, Sandra, coming on the show, talking about him, his story, conveying what he would want people to know as well.

Sandra, thank you so much. You're welcome back anytime.

GARZA: Thank you so much, Pam. Thank you.

BROWN: And new tonight, CNN learning that the C.I.A. tried to warn the military about civilian casualties, but that warning came seconds too late to stop a drone strike that killed 10 people in Kabul. Among the dead, seven children. CNNs Katie Bo Lillis has new reporting for us on this tragic U.S.

Intelligence failure. She's up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:20:52]

BROWN: New CNN reporting tonight, sources telling us moments before a U.S. drone strike killed 10 civilians in Kabul, the C.I.A. issued an urgent warning that children might be in the target vehicle, but it was too late.

I want to point out, DoD has addressed this, but the White House is still silent since this news came out. CNN's Katie Bo Lillis covers intelligence and national security issues. I mean, Katie, this is just awful.

As a Pentagon official said, a horrible mistake. How did this happen?

KATIE BO LILLIS, CNN REPORTER: You know, Pam, I think one of the things that this sort of tragic missed message really underscores is the sense of urgency that the military felt that it was operating under when it carried out this strike. You know, they had just lost 13 service members in an ISIS attack just days previous.

They believed that there was another imminent attack forthcoming, a threat to American forces on the ground, which is something that the military takes very seriously. And clearly, the commanders who were in charge of the strike, felt that they couldn't wait, essentially, to take this shot in order to determine number one, definitively whether or not there were civilians on the ground.

And number two, even with certainty who the target was, which obviously, they turned out to be tragically wrong about that. You know, the other thing that I think is important to understand here is when the -- when the military doesn't have boots on the ground, when they don't have a great human Intelligence network or an ability to intercept signals, communications, or sort of other kind of pieces of Intelligence that helps them definitively say, okay, this is our target for a counterterrorism strike.

They're left trying to kind of piece together overhead images of a car of interest, or a person of interest as they kind of move around their sort of daily routine. It's what the military calls creating a pattern of life.

And then they have to determine whether or not they're going to take a strike based on just sort of those pieced together clues and that's clearly what they chose to do here. And we see the risk of that.

BROWN: Just looking at those pictures of the children. It's awful. Katie Bo, thank you so much.

Well, the rally to show support to the January 6th insurrectionists fizzled out fast, but President Trump's big lie is showing no signs of slowing. I'm going to speak to Trump's former National Security adviser, John Bolton about the damage Trump's big lie is doing to democracy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:27:48]

BROWN: We've got eyes on the sky right now awaiting the splashdown of the Inspiration 4 all-civilian spaceflight. Four people are making history by going it alone in space for nearly 72 hours.

And as we look at the schedule, the SpaceX Crew Dragon should be ending its deorbit burn about this time and then just minutes from now, two sets of parachutes will deploy with splashdown set for just after 7:00 p.m. Eastern off the Florida Coast in the Atlantic Ocean.

We've got a team in Cape Canaveral and we're going to bring it all to you live here in the CNN NEWSROOM. So be sure to stay with us for this historic moment, coming up.

Meantime, although today's so-called Justice for J6 rally was largely peaceful, the big lie that inspired it lives on.

New CNN polling conducted just within the past month finds that 78 percent of Republicans still think President Biden did not win the election, and 54 percent believe there is strong evidence he lost. Of course, there is no such evidence. How many times have we had to say that on this show? But nonetheless, this is what the polls are saying.

Joining me now, a former U.S. National Security adviser under President Donald Trump and former U.N. Ambassador, John Bolton. He is also the author of "The Room Where it Happened."

Ambassador, thanks for joining us, again. You're seeing the big lie is already changing the electoral process for the upcoming midterms and the 2024 presidential election. If so many people mistrust the results of an election, how do we preserve this Democratic Republic?

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Well, I think it is important to have people have confidence in elections, and I must say, the polling I've done asking people, particularly Republicans and Republican-voting Independents, do you think your vote will be fairly counted in the next election? Overwhelming majority say yes.

So, I think as time goes by, there's a process underway by which people adopt to understand that, in fact, Trump lost in 2020.

There are still a lot of people who don't believe it, I acknowledge that. And I think it's a responsibility, especially Republicans to clean that up. But I also think it is very important for faith and democracy not to exaggerate the extent to which people still believe in the big lie.

[18:30:10]

BROWN: But I mean, just to be clear, this is a CNN poll with certain standards that we utilize in order for us to get an accurate measurement of where the public is and that is what Republicans are saying 78 percent, that's not an exaggeration. That's a hard number, 78 percent say Biden lost.

BOLTON: No, no, look, that is inconsistent with many, many other polls. I'd like to see the question, I'd like to see the data underlying it. In my polls, just for what it's worth, we make the data public so perhaps we can have a look at yours, too.

BROWN: Yes. Well, it's available on cnn.com, so I encourage you to take a look at that, because that is consistent. That polling actually, we're seeing the numbers consistently go up. But I just want to ask you not only have Trump and some other Republicans downplayed the insurrection, they've begun to regard the rioters as heroes and that includes ongoing efforts to cast Ashli Babbitt, the woman shot and killed by Capitol Police as a martyr. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Who was the person that shot an innocent, wonderful, incredible woman?

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): If this country can demand justice for someone like George Floyd, then we can certainly demand justice for Ashli Babbitt.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The only person who got killed that day was a Trump supporter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ashli Babbitt.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And her name was Ashli Babbitt.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And she was murdered.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: The officer who shot her told NBC that he saved countless lives by his actions. Ambassador, why are Republicans, some Republicans creating heroes out of people who broke the law and attacking police officers? What happened to back the blue and the law and order party?

BOLTON: Yes. Well, I think these are people who have fundamentally lost faith in the basic principles of the party itself, starting with Donald Trump. I think anybody who went into the Capitol building that day, was in violation of the law and I hope they do get justice. I hope they get fully prosecuted and serve the appropriate sentences.

And it's important, it's a continuing process to explain that these people were law violators, not peaceful protesters. It's very discouraging. I acknowledge that. But again, I don't think we should get hysterical about it. I think you have to keep it in perspective and keep doing the hard work of telling people what the truth is.

BROWN: You mentioned basic principles in the Republican Party, are those basic principles even still alive in the Republican Party right now?

BOLTON: Of course, they are. Look, Donald Trump is an aberration. BROWN: What's the proof of that?

BOLTON: He doesn't have principles or philosophy. It's all about Donald Trump.

BROWN: But he's the leader of the party right now.

BOLTON: He's not the leader of the party from my perspective nor from the perspective of many other people. And I think, frankly, one of the damaging things he does to the Republican Party by his continued presence is give opponents of the conservative philosophy, the opportunity to anathematize the entire party because of what he says.

And so for that reason, look, the struggle goes on. But I'm increasingly optimistic that what Republicans really looking for is the chance to implement their policies through the 2022 elections and I don't that means ...

BROWN: So what gives you that optimism? I'm sorry, and I know you - I don't need - go ahead.

BOLTON: Because I talk to Republicans all over the country and I think there's a distorted picture of what Trump's influence is. I think, in fact, my polls show that his influence is declining day by day by day. Nobody should be surprised of that. He's gone from sitting in the most powerful office in the world, to sitting by the swimming pool at Mar- A-Lago.

And I think voters of all stripes, when they look at elections, want to know what politicians are going to propose to address the problems they see in front of them. An interest in re litigating the 2020 election is diminishing and I don't think it's going to rise again.

BROWN: But you're seeing Republicans like Congressman Gonzales, who has been outspoken against Trump, Congressman of Ohio, saying he's not going to run for reelection. It's the members of Congress who support Trump who are kowtowing to Trump that are succeeding right now in the Republican Party. Do you disagree with that?

BOLTON: Well, I do disagree with it. Name a senator who's kowtowing to Donald Trump ...

BROWN: Well, just look at the vote from (inaudible) ...

BOLTON: ... maybe a difference between the House and the Senate in terms - well, look, there are a lot of arguments on impeachment. I was against the second impeachment.

[18:35:01]

Because I don't think the Constitution permits either the trial, either the impeachment or the trial of impeachment after an incumbent has left office. That, for me, would have been enough to vote against impeachment. This is a complicated issue and reducing it to bumper stickers may make some people happy. But it doesn't advance the cause of intelligent debate in our democracy. BROWN: You talked about earlier saying we just got to continue to get

the facts out there. That is something we are committed to on this show. But what do you think of Fox? What role does Fox play and other right-wing media play in spreading the big lie that the election was stolen, this misinformation about the vaccines that talking heads have been pushing for months?

BOLTON: Well, let me just take the vaccine thing for a minute. I've been vaccinate. I've had two shots. I planned to get a booster I think everybody should get vaccinated. I don't particularly have difficulty with vaccine mandates. I think it needs to be explained to the people.

But before COVID, the main pressure for anti-vaccine lobbying came from the left in this country. So if you want to talk about people who are concerned about vaccinations, there's plenty of blame to go around.

BROWN: Okay. Well, on the COVID vaccine, there is clear evidence that the misinformation for the most part is coming from right-wing media. So just talking about the COVID vaccine there, but really quick before we let you go, you have voiced support for Gen. Mark Milley in reaching out to reassure China in the waning days of the Trump administration. This came out in the new book by Bob Costa and Woodward. Did you ever reach a point, I wonder, when you were in the White House, where you felt like you needed to take drastic actions because you were so concerned?

BOLTON: Well, no, I didn't take drastic action, I finally resigned. And I don't think Milley took drastic actions here. There are some people who say he violated the principle of civilian control over the military, he broke military discipline, he undercut the commander-in- chief, I don't think that's what his actions show at all. Other people take exactly the same actions and say he saved the country from Donald Trump and that's not true either.

He did what he needed to do. He took appropriate action under very trying circumstances and that's exactly what you would expect he did. He did his duty, nothing more, nothing less.

BROWN: Did you ever keep the president out of decision making processes that you would otherwise normally include the president in?

BOLTON: No. I think he was as involved as he wanted to be, that's the definition of being president.

BROWN: All right. Ambassador John Bolton, thank you for coming on the show and taking some time out on this Saturday evening. And go check out that CNN poll and all the standards behind how we came up with those numbers.

BOLTON: I'd love to see the underlying data.

BROWN: All right. It's all online. Thanks so much, Ambassador John Bolton.

The FDA Vaccine Advisory Board recommends Pfizer boosters but only for two specific groups. When we come back, I'm going to speak to Dr. Leana Wen about the future of the booster shot rollout.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:42:53]

BROWN: Finally, some important new answers to who should get COVID booster shots. A key FDA panel voted Friday to recommend an additional Pfizer dose for anyone 65 and up or at high risk, but not for people 16 to 64. I want to bring in CNN Medical Analyst Dr. Leana Wen. She's a former Baltimore Health Commissioner and the author of Lifelines: A Doctor's Journey in the Fight for Public Health. Dr. Wen, always great to have you on the show.

I just want to start off with your reaction to the FDA's decision on booster shots for some but not others.

LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Pamela, I think it's a reasonable starting point, because at some point, we probably will all been needing boosters, but it's reasonable to start with those who are at the highest risk for severe consequences from COVID-19 or people who have high risk exposures and so those would be individuals who are older.

The Committee chose 65. I think they could have also chosen 60 and older. But very importantly, they also included people with high risk. What I hope happens now is that the CDC, the CDC Committee still has to be voting on this later this week. I hope that they don't make this too restrictive, because they're going to be individuals who are younger, but may have high risk exposure at work or maybe they have high risk medical conditions that make them at greater risk for having severe consequences. I hope that all of those individuals are at least allowed to be getting a third booster dose at this time.

BROWN: Right. I think people are going to want to know what is high risk mean, what is the definition of that. And we want to point out, this was for the Pfizer vaccine. But what about boosters for Moderna or Johnson & Johnson? Should they get a Pfizer shot as a booster or wait, what should they do?

WEN: Well, people who got the two doses of Moderna vaccine if they are severely immunocompromised, they can already go out and get a third dose right now. Moderna has also submitted for authorization by the FDA, so we're talking a matter of a few weeks for people who've got Moderna to publicly get the same consequence as with Pfizer. I'd be really surprised if the FDA doesn't decide exactly the same for Moderna at they did with Pfizer.

[18:45:01]

J&J is different and actually I'm very disappointed that the FDA and CDC continued to leave the 14 million plus Americans who got the J&J one dose vaccine. I'm one of those individuals. I actually think that there is enough evidence at this point for the FDA to come out and say, people who got the one dose J&J vaccine can get a Pfizer vaccine as a booster. They have not said this, but I know that many individuals have already taken matters into their own hands and have gotten that booster.

BROWN: Yes. We keep hearing anecdotal stories about that. I want to go to Nicki Minaj, who would have thought we'd be bringing up Nicki Minaj in the segment, but here we are. She got a lot of attention after tweeting she wasn't vaccinated and that her cousin's friend became impotent after getting the shot.

Minaj has a lot of Twitter followers and her comments seem to be fueling this myth that COVID vaccines harm fertility when there is no evidence to support that. How much harm does this do to efforts by doctors like yourself, trying to give people factual information that could save their lives?

WEN: Well, I first want to say that there is absolutely no evidence linking the COVID vaccines and fertility for men or for women. It just is not true. It's a myth that was started and unfortunately is perpetuated. And I think it's really important for us to debunk this myth.

But to your point, it is really concerning, because unfortunately, they are very influential figures, including celebrities who have a substantial following who will listen to what they say and who might use this as further justification for why they have not been vaccinated.

BROWN: Meantime, this is going on you have the COVID surge hitting parts of the country really hard. Let's just tick through some examples here. You have Idaho is so overrun with patients with cases, it is now allowing its hospitals statewide to ration care. There's an Alabama man having a cardiac emergency dying after being turned away from 43 hospitals that were just too full with COVID cases.

And then from Florida, you have this example of a father telling our Erin Burnett that his 12-year-old son's appendix burst while waiting more than six hours to be seen. I mean, before COVID, would you have ever expected to hear these kinds of stories coming from this country?

WEN: Well, it does happen in this country and did happen before but in very specific types of time limited emergencies. For example, if there's a hurricane strike in one area, that maybe that area is overwhelmed for a matter of days or weeks.

But what's happening is that we're seeing this sustained emergency across our country that's lasted now for more than a year and a half and there are not only people with COVID who are being impacted, but also patients with other medical conditions.

Elective surgeries are being postponed and they're not actually elective. We're talking about people with cancer or people with cardiac issues who have not had their emergencies addressed because of COVID. And so I think people really need to recognize that those who remain unvaccinated are setting back progress and are literally harming the health and well-being of everybody else in this country.

BROWN: It's a very important message. Dr. Leana Wen, thank you for bringing us the truth on what's going on with vaccines and the pandemic.

WEN: Thank you.

BROWN: Well, up next, a nail biting reentry for an all-civilian spaceflight as a historic space mission returns to Earth. Live coverage coming up. You were in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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[18:53:06]

BROWN: We're only minutes away now from the splashdown of the historic Inspiration4 all-civilian spaceflight. Four of its engineers or engines rather have just been fired to slow the capsule and drop it out of orbit. Parachutes will deploy soon and splashdown is set for just after 7 p.m. Eastern right off the Florida coast in the Atlantic. And we have got full live coverage coming up in just moments so you will not want to wait - you will not want to miss this history happening. We're going to show it to you right on this show.

And meantime, talk about history, the Delta variant is showing no sign of slowing down across the globe. And as this pandemic presses on, one big question remains, where did this virus come from? How? CNN Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta interviewed scientists from all over the world trying to piece together clues to get us closer to an answer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I tallied up the page numbers, the total, annex and main report, for the laboratory was about four pages out of 313. And in those four pages, the title of the section was conspiracy theories.

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know there's a lot of smoke here, no definitive flame, but database goes down. No sharing of samples of these potential lab workers who got sickened, no forensic analysis of lab. It starts to sound like there wasn't a really definitive investigation of the lab leak theory.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, that's right, there's not been a definitive investigation of the lab leak theory here.

GUPTA: Will there be?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I think that it needs to follow the evidence. If there's definitive evidence of a lab leak, then that needs to be investigated. There is none here.

GUPTA: But part of the reason there's none is because information is not being shared.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. If we want to see information shared from China about what went on the lab, we need phase two to begin very rapidly.

(END VIDEO CLIP) [18:55:04]

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Now, Pamela to be clear, the Chinese government has rejected any kind of phase two of this WHO study, just rejected it. They are vehemently denying the possibility that this virus leaked from a lab. In fact, they're even pointing to other labs now around the world, Pamela. They pointed to Fort Detrick in Maryland and encouraged WHO to go investigate there as possible origin of COVID.

To be clear, there's absolutely no evidence to suggest that's the case. But you get an idea of how challenging this entire investigation has been. Until they can collect the data, the evidence, it's very hard to do a science-based report, study or investigation. And that's sort of where things stand now.

We uncovered a lot in terms of what is happening in China, what has happened here in terms of the investigation and hope to bring it to you all tomorrow night. Pamela?

BROWN: We're looking forward to that. Sanjay Gupta, thank you so much.

Be sure to stay with us. We are just moments away from a SpaceX splashdown with an all-civilian crew on board the first ever to reach Earth's orbit.

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[18:59:57]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN breaking news.

BROWN: I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. We have some exciting news coming up.