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Body Found In Search Matches Description Of Gabby Petito; FDA Panels Recommends Boosters Only For People Over 65 And At High Risk; More Than 12,000 Migrants Living Under Bridge At U.S.-Mexico Border; French Daredevil Performs Breathtaking Slackline Stunt. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired September 19, 2021 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:03]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Top of the hour now. I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM on this Sunday.

And tonight we have a tragic end to the search for Gabby Petito. The FBI says the body found near a campsite in Grand Teton National Park matches the description of Gabby's. She is the 22-year-old who went missing during a cross-country road trip with her fiance, Brian Laundrie.

CNN's Leyla Santiago joins us now from North Port, Florida, where police have just ended another search -- search day for Laundrie.

What's going on there on the ground, Leyla?

LEYLA SANTIAGO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the police here as well as the other agencies taking part in this search have ended the search for the evening. So we'll have to wait and see what time this will pick up again tomorrow but this comes after FBI officials gave us new details just within the last hour what you've sort of laid out there, Pamela, that the one piece of news that so many people were hoping would turn out differently.

Let's let you listen to part of the press conference.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLES JONES, SUPERVISORY SPECIAL AGENT, FBI DENVER: As every parent can imagine, this is an incredibly difficult time for the family and friends. Our thoughts and prayers are with them. We ask that you all respect the privacy as they mourn the loss of their daughter.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

SANTIAGO: And also this evening, North Port Police who's taken the lead over the search here tweeting out, "Saddened and heartbroken to learn that Gabby has been found deceased. Our focus from the start along with the FBI and national partners has been to bring her home. We will continue to work with the FBI in the search for more answers." And I can tell you there is certainly a desire to get more answers to

so many of the questions still out there. Where is Brian Laundrie tonight? What happened that led to the death of Gabby? So many questions. And the reason we're here tonight is because this is where Laundrie's family told police that they believe he could be. They said that they had not seen him since Tuesday. They reported this to the police Friday.

Why they waited so long remains a frustration for detectives and police who have said so. So they said the last time they saw him he had a hiking backpack on and said he was going to come here. This is by the way a wildlife reserve, 25,000 acres. Just had a chance to go in. It's very swampy, it's very dense and lush, so lots of challenges for search teams that are trying to find someone in there.

And this is where the Laundrie family said he could potentially be. So we will wait and see what is next in this search for him but clearly law enforcement trying to get to Brian Laundrie to see if that could also provide more answers to what happened to Gabby Petito.

BROWN: All right. Leyla Santiago, thank you very much on the ground there in Florida.

Now let's go to CNN legal analyst Paul Callan and CNN senior law enforcement analyst Charles Ramsey.

Charles, I'm going to start with you just on the heels of Leyla's reporting there. She said the search have been called off for the day, but they just found a body in Wyoming that they are saying matched the description of Gabby Petito. Our analysts have said on air that this would elevate him being viewed from a person of interest to a suspect. And that it would escalate the search. Why would they call off the search when there's still daylight there?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I mean, first of all, apparently it is starting to get dark and they called off the search maybe because they've searched it and they're not coming up with anything as of now. But as far as -- I have been listening to this all day. The medical examiner has to determine cause of death. And right now, I mean, certainly it doesn't look good.

It looks like perhaps it could be a homicide but you can't jump to conclusions. One thing that was very important that the special agent in charge of the field office from the FBI said was that the body was found in an area of rugged terrain so you don't know even if the medical examiner is going to be able to pinpoint a cause of death, it could come back undetermined. This sounds to me like a case that's going to need an awful lot of work in order to get it to a point where they could actually arrest and charge an individual.

Now having said that, he certainly is a person that you have to talk to. I mean, you know, how did you come back without her? What happened? You know, if he was involved and actually caused her death, did he just leave her there and she subsequently died from a fall?

[19:05:03] I mean, we don't know the answer to that. So he's key and they have to locate him if he in fact actually went to the location where his parents are saying he went. This guy could be anywhere.

BROWN: So, Paul, we have two different search areas. Several different law enforcement groups. Who is in charge? How do they work together?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, that's a great question and I think ultimately we've got Wyoming involved, we have Florida involved. We also have the fact that they were traveling, the couple throughout the west. So law enforcement authorities are going to have to decide if there's a criminal case, where do we bring it?

Now the most likely place looks to me like Wyoming because that's where the national park is in which the remains were found but of course if the body was moved, if the homicide took place -- if it is a homicide, if it took place in another location, that location may have jurisdiction. So we're going to have an issue there.

And just adding on to what Commissioner Ramsey was talking about, one of the key things we don't know at this point is cause of death. That's going to be the most important thing in any murder prosecution. And the other thing that we don't know is time of death because time of death would be a key factor in that Brian Laundrie, let's say, he is a suspect, a legitimate suspect in the case, and he certainly is looking like that from everything that we see, but where was he when she died?

Obviously if he has an alibi, he's not the person who committed the murder so I think as bad as the thing looks for him we should hesitate before we jumped to any conclusions until we have more information from law enforcement authorities, and for that we need an autopsy and we need more information about that cause of death.

BROWN: Charles, how long do you think it could take to determine the cause of death?

RAMSEY: Well, it depends. We don't even know the state of the body. Depending on when the person died, out in the elements, you'd probably have some very significant decomposition. Animals may have gotten to the remains. We just don't know, you know, how long it's going to take. I would think that they'd probably have a pretty good idea in a day or two once they perform the autopsy.

And again, looking at other evidence, it's not just about the body, it's about the other evidence. The surrounding area. Is it a possibility that a serious fall could have taken place? I mean, you know, they could show serious trauma to the body but was that necessarily caused by another person? Was the trauma caused as a result of a fall? I mean, there's a lot of things like that.

The worst thing you can have is an undetermined classification but it could very well be that because then you just -- there's an awful lot of work that you have to do to piece it together to turn it into anything other than, you know, just an open case. Could be accidental, could be homicide. But you're going to need a lot of evidence in order to prove a homicide.

BROWN: So, Paul, you have this situation in Wyoming where there's this forensic investigation and you have the search ongoing for the fiance. He was yet to speak to police. He is pleading the Fifth. How important is it for the police to talk to his family, to find him and potentially talk to him if he is willing to?

So far we've just heard from the attorney for the most part. We do know the family told police on Friday, three days after they saw him, that they believe he -- you know, that he is missing. They saw him on Tuesday with the hiking backpack. How important is it to talk to them in all of this?

CALLAN: Pam, he's the most critical witness in the case and you're going to see the search intensify I think by morning for him. Obviously if he were the last person to see Gabby before she disappeared that's going to be a very, very important factor.

I think ultimately this is going to be a federal case because it took place in a federal park. And one of the things that federal authorities could do is to impanel a grand jury to conduct an investigation and issue subpoenas. And even if he takes the Fifth Amendment, which he has so far on the advice of his counsel, if he's ultimately found, certainly the family could be compelled to testify under service of process before a grand jury about what their son told them when he returned from being on this extended trip with Gabby.

So they can be compelled to give up any information that they have. He cannot be because he can take the Fifth Amendment. But certainly at this point it looks quite suspicious. There's the motive because we see that the couple had been fighting.

[19:10:02]

And there's an opportunity because he had proximity to Gabby and he's now engaged in very, very suspicious behavior in disappearing in the midst of an investigation, and a search for his fiance, so certainly he's high on a suspect list at this point. But whether you can make out a case against him and whether he's even still alive we don't know at this point because we just don't know where he is. It's quite a mystery on all sides in this case.

BROWN: Yes. It just shows you this case is ongoing. There's still a lot to learn.

Paul Callan, Charles Ramsey, thank you so much.

And be sure to stay with CNN as our coverage of this case continues.

Up next, on this Sunday evening, to boost or not to boost? The FDA answered boost for some Americans. What Dr. Fauci says about this decision. And Dr. Sanjay Gupta walks us through what it means in the fight against COVID.

Also, you'll meet a big guy with an even bigger heart whom I've always looked up to ever since I can remember. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: My whole life I have seen my brother be a champion for change first hand. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This house is really for you and your family. It's

a gift.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's really a gift, just for you and your family.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They gave me something I'm missing. It was a house which they give me on Christmas, which I didn't realize it would be my house.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:15:38]

BROWN: Eighteen months into the coronavirus pandemic and data from John Hopkins University shows that the U.S. is again nearing 2,000 COVID-19 deaths per day. That is the highest seven-day average since early March. But even though we are nearing 675,000 U.S. deaths, the high point set in the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic, Dr. Fauci says we can still avoid reaching one million U.S. deaths from coronavirus if eligible people will just get vaccinated.

Meantime, there's new confusion on boosters after an FDA advisory committee recommended that they not be made widely available. Just to people over 65 and those at high risk of serious infection. Earlier today, Dr. Fauci was asked if the FDA made a mistake with that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: I don't think they made a mistake, but the one thing I think people need to realize that data are coming in literally on a daily and weekly basis. They're going to continue to look at this literally in real time. More data will be coming in on both safety for younger individuals, efficacy both from Israel, other countries, as well as our substantial cohorts that the CDC is following so the story is not over yet. I think people need to understand that.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Joining me with more, CNN's chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, thanks for coming on the show on this Sunday night. It's great to see you.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Of course.

BROWN: So let's talk about this. There just doesn't seem to be a clear message on boosters. And as you know, messaging, communications, that's so important for the public. The administration wanted to make them widely available starting tomorrow. The FDA committee put a pause on that idea. I know the CDC has yet to weigh in. What is your take on all of this?

GUPTA: Well, I mean, I think that the take is the FDA advisory committee sort of more strictly defined who they think would really benefit from boosters and what they're saying is if you're healthy and you're under the age of 65 you probably don't need a booster because the good news is the vaccines are working really well. They're working really well across the board. But let me show you the concern.

With regard to hospitalizations, I mean, this is sort of what's been fueling this for some time, we know that there's a lot of people in the hospital with COVID. But we also know that 95 percent of those in the hospital with COVID are unvaccinated. That's the line sort of at the top that's going up to the right. The flatter line at the bottom you can barely see it are breakthrough infections that get sick enough to end up in the hospital. That's about 5 percent of hospitalizations.

So the question, Pamela, has been who are those people? Who are those people that got vaccinated but still end up in the hospital? And that's where some of this data that we've seen now in the United States basically saying people over the age of 65. If you are hospitalized after vaccination with COVID 87 percent of them who die are over the age of 65, 70 percent of the hospitalizations are over the age of 65. And that really drove I think their thinking on this. Who would most benefit from boosters? The people who are most likely to get sick.

Let me show you one other thing, and because Dr. Fauci talks about data from other countries. We've been looking at Israel a lot. Israel started vaccinating early, they have about 65 percent of the small country vaccinated, they've been boosting since August. Look at their new coronavirus cases, Pamela. They're the highest they've been since the pandemic began. Now luckily the proportion of hospitalizations and deaths is much lower than earlier in the pandemic because of vaccines.

But here's the point. If you're just going to look at the number of breakthrough cases and determine whether or not people should be boosted it doesn't seem like it's really made that much of a difference in Israel. And I think that's something else the FDA took into account.

BROWN: That's so interesting and it really helps us understand why they landed on that -- the age 65 and up because I think initially a lot of people are wondering, well, I'm 60, I want a booster, why can't I be included? But putting that into perspective helps us better understand their decision.

I want to know you have a special coming up tonight at 8:00 p.m. Eastern on the origins of the pandemic. Let's take a look at a clip from that and talk on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: There's a lot of people who are sort of looking from the outside in, they say, there's all these different possibilities. Why weren't they explored or investigated thoroughly including a forensic examination of the lab?

[19:20:02]

Is that a fair line of questioning?

PETER DASZAK, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION JOINT STUDY: Absolutely. Of course. We all have to agree on what happens for it to happen.

GUPTA (voice-over): Both foreign and Chinese scientists were part of the WHO effort. And team members said they had to unanimously agree on the contents of the report. The head of the team, WHO Food Safety Specialist Peter Ben Embarek told TV 2 that their Chinese counterparts didn't even want to include the lab leak theory at all.

PETER BEN EMBAREK, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION FOOD SAFETY SPECIALIST: (Speaking in foreign language) At first they don't want to include the lab because it was impossible. That's when I said that we have to include or we didn't have a report.

GUPTA (on-camera): Was a full evaluation of the lab meant to be part of this report?

MARIA VAN KERKHOVE, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION COVID-19 TECHNICAL LEAD: We didn't have people on the mission team who were experts in bio safety, bio security, so it wasn't really their mandate to do.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: Pamela, that was one of the most eye-opening things that I learned. This WHO report which was supposed to go look into the origins of the virus didn't even have team members to look into the potential of the lab leak theory. They put on their final report that it was unlikely but they never really investigated it.

Now they say there's going to be a phase two to this investigation, Pamela. But China has got to agree to it still, and so far China is saying absolutely not. They're not agreeing to letting that lab leak investigation happen. So it is a -- it's a really convoluted sort of story and, it's also a true intersection of geopolitics and science when it comes to this.

BROWN: And it's just still so important to find out because you want to be able to prevent this from ever happening again.

GUPTA: That's right.

BROWN: And so it is important. And as you note China has not been forthcoming with information on this topic. I'm looking forward to watching this.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you so much.

GUPTA: Thanks, Pamela.

BROWN: And make sure you stay with CNN at the top of the next hour. Dr. Gupta's fascinating special, "THE ORIGINS OF COVID-19: SEARCHING FOR THE SOURCE." That's at 8:00 p.m. Eastern.

And we're following breaking news out of Wyoming. The FBI says that it has found a body believed to be that of Gabby Petito. We're going to have more on the investigation into her tragic death up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:26:43]

BROWN: Major developments tonight in a missing persons case that got national attention and pulled at the heartstrings of parents everywhere. The body of 22-year-old Gabby Petito, her whereabouts unknown for almost three weeks, has apparently been found during a search of a national park in Wyoming. The FBI announcing it last hour.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: Earlier today human remains were discovered consistent with the description of Gabrielle "Gabby" Petito. Full forensic identification has not been completed to confirm 100 percent that we found Gabby but her family has been notified of this discovery. The cause of death has not been determined at this time.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And we have just learned that the autopsy is set to take place on Tuesday. Meantime, police in Florida are saying now that the search has ended for the night for Gabby's fiance Brian Laundrie. He was traveling with her in the area where her body was found and is considered a person of interest by police. Unknown if that has changed given the significant development. Laundrie hasn't been seen since last Tuesday.

CNN's Randi Kaye has been covering the search for Gabby Petito from the beginning and walks us through the unfolding tragedy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GABBY PETITO, MISSING WOMAN: Hello, hello. And good morning. It is really nice and sunny today.

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): 22-year-old Gabby Petito in happier times, documenting her travels with her fiance cross- country on social media.

PETITO: Gabby Petito never goes outside.

KAYE: But along the way the trip turned into something else.

PETITO: Hi. We've just been fighting this morning. Some personal issues.

KAYE: Police in Moab, Utah, released this body cam video after someone called them August 12th to report disorderly conduct involving Gabby and her fiance, Brian Laundrie. The police report noted the couple engaged in some sort of altercation. Gabby told police she struggled with OCD.

PETITO: And he wouldn't let me in the car before, and then I --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why wouldn't he let you in the car?

PETITO: Because he told to me I need --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because of your OCD?

PETITO: He told me I needed to calm down. Yes. But I'm perfectly calm.

KAYE: The police report described her as confused and emotional and manic. The officers didn't file any charges, but suggested the couple separate for the night.

TODD GARRISON, NORTH PORT, FLORIDA POLICE: Yes, they had a disturbance. Yes, it was captured on body camera, their interaction with law enforcement. But beyond that, you know, I don't know what it has to do with the disappearance.

KAYE: It all began on July 2nd when the couple set out from New York in Gabby's converted white 2012 Ford Transit van with Florida plates. Their plan, according to police, was to drive all the way to Yellowstone National Park, but they never made it.

We've also learned Gabby was reportedly last seen at this Salt Lake City hotel on August 24th. That same day, the family's attorney says she Facetimed with her mom telling her she was leaving Utah and heading to the Grand Tetons. The following day, Gabby texted multiple times with her mom, likely from the Grand Tetons.

On August 30th, a final text from Gabby's phone, though the attorney says her family doubts she actually wrote it.

[19:30:03]

Then on September 1, her fiance showed up at the home he and Gabby shared with his parents in Northport, Florida in Gabby's white van. Ten days later on September 11th, Gabby's family reported her missing.

CHIEF TODD GARRISON, NORTH PORT FLORIDA POLICE: Two people went on a trip, one person returned, and that person that returned isn't providing us any information.

KAYE (voice over): Cassie Laundrie told ABC her brother and Gabby had been known to fight.

CASSIE LAUNDRIE, SISTER OF BRIAN LAUNDRIE: Typical of both of them, they -- whenever they fight, they would take a little break and come back and be fine.

KAYE (voice over): The F.B.I. in Denver has also joined the search, aiding F.B.I. and local authorities in Wyoming and Utah. But as the hours and days tick by, the search for answers grows and doubts are beginning to creep in. JOE PETITO, FATHER OF GABBY PETITO: My gut tells me that something bad

happened, and I never -- I'm never going to be able to hold my baby girl again.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: That was CNN's Randi Kaye.

And just a short time ago, police in North Pointe, Florida where Gabby lived with her now missing fiance released a statement saying the apparent discovery of her body has left them quote "saddened and heartbroken."

Up next, in the CNN NEWSROOM. Beto O'Rourke famously told "Vanity Fair" in 2020 about running for office. Remember, "Man, I'm just born to be in it." Man, things didn't turn out so well for him, but could his political career be reborn in 2022?

Alice Stewart and Kirsten Powers are here to weigh in on that and more.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:36:16]

BROWN: And we have this, just in, a statement from the family of Brian Laundrie, Gabby Petito's fiance, and the statement says, quote: "The news about Gabby Petito was heartbreaking. The Laundrie family prays for Gabby and her family."

Stay with CNN as our coverage of this case continues and the search for Brian Laundrie continues as well.

Meantime at the U.S. border in Del Rio, Texas, right now, the images and the numbers like you see on your screen. Look at all these people, they're staggering. Tonight, there are more than 12,000 migrant staying under or next to a bridge waiting to be processed by the U.S. Border Patrol and languishing in squalor there.

A short time ago, we learned that officials are racing to transfer 3,000 migrants within 24 hours to begin their deportation to their native Haiti, an impoverished country that is in political shambles.

Well, that has outraged human rights activists who say that President Biden is breaking his campaign promise to grant U.S. political asylum to more refugees than his predecessors.

I want to bring in CNN senior political analyst and "U.S.A. Today" columnist, Kirsten Powers and Alice Stewart, a CNN political commentator, and former Communications Director for Senator Ted Cruz.

Alice, let's start with you. What do you think is going on here? Is the President betraying nations who are desperately trying to escape the poverty and violence of their country? ALICE STEWART, CNN REPORTER: Well, given that's the reason for them

coming to the border and that is a true case for seeking asylum, yes, he is betraying them and betraying his word also to Democrats who voted for him saying that he was going to be a beacon of hope for people trying to come into this country, and also be more lenient, and compassionate and empathetic to immigrants coming into this country.

So, it is a campaign promise broken to a lot of people across the border, and you can't look at those images and just not be heartbroken at those people, by the thousands waiting to get into this country.

And you know, every case is different. There might be different reasons for certain people being there, but those who have an honest and legitimate case for asylum should be brought in just as the President said so.

BROWN: And I want to get your reaction, Kirsten, to what we just heard from Alice there. But I first want to get to this sound from the Secretary of Homeland Security who spoke to my colleague, Jim Acosta earlier today.

He was asked about whether this is a humanitarian crisis, and here is what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS, SECRETARY OF U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: We certainly are experiencing a challenging situation, but we are surging resources and we have a multi-prong approach to this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: He would not concede that this is a humanitarian crisis. Is this another bungled message from the administration?

KIRSTEN POWERS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I just would like to know what they think of humanitarian crisis is if this isn't. What is their standard for a humanitarian crisis?

And, look, I don't know that we've ever in my adult lifetime had a President, Democrat or Republican who has been particularly good at dealing with these issues, and it's time to get up to speed on these things

We have a broken immigration system. We don't have enough judges. We don't have -- you know, there isn't enough -- there aren't enough resources to handle what's happening at the border.

We are a huge country with a lot of space and a lot of money. So, the idea that we cannot help these people is absolutely ludicrous.

And this is exactly -- I mean, I agree with Alice, I mean, this is -- I think most people can look at this and say these people are desperate and that they need to be treated as desperate people and not sent back to the place that they fled. It is completely inhumane, and I think that like, I said the Democratic Party has not been great on immigration. They haven't been great at dealing with these kinds of crises and I think now would be a really perfect time to change that.

[19:40:10]

STEWART: And it is important that we have border security, and we have safe and secure borders. But that being said, if this is a humanitarian crisis, which it clearly is, then it is important for anyone who ran on being compassionate on immigration to follow through with what they said.

BROWN: Let's remember Haiti, just went through an earthquake.

STEWART: Yes.

POWERS: Of course.

BROWN: The President was assassinated. I mean, it's been in a bad situation for a long time, it's gotten worse in the last months.

POWERS: And these people -- anybody who is seeking refugee status in the United States has a right to go before a judge and have a judge determine whether or not they are a refugee.

And so they haven't done anything illegal. It is perfectly legal to come into the country and to seek refugee status. So the problem is, we don't have enough judges and we don't have a system that can process people that are coming in, and so that system has to be addressed and Republicans, you know, did block immigration reform in the past, which wouldn't necessarily help in that case, but it would help processing other people that are coming through and for the people that are already here.

BROWN: And given everything going on the border, it is bringing renewed focus to Texas for a number of reasons and Beto O'Rourke, here we go again, talking about him as we know, Alice, he was nearly ousted by your former -- he was ousted by your former boss, Ted Cruz in 2018.

He spent a lot of his time canvassing Texas, creating buzz that he will run for Governor. What do you think? How viable is he as a Democrat to run against Abbott?

STEWART: Given the names that we have in Texas on the Democratic side, I think he is the most high profile, most visible and certainly in a position to raise money. And I do believe, given all that's going on there, that the Democratic Party here in Washington, D.C. will help him raise money, put boots on the ground and be supportive of the idea of him if he is the sole candidate.

That being said, look, he almost beat Ted Cruz, he lost by two points.

BROWN: Yes, nearly ousted him, yes.

STEWART: But right now, it's interesting to see with a statistical and figurative campaign against him and Governor Abbott right now, he is only behind five points and he hasn't even announced yet. So that's something to consider. I think he is a good candidate because three things are going against

him. One being the border, the crisis we just saw at the border. The other abortion, which is huge abortion legislation going on in Texas, and the other is what happens with COVID. And all of those things, if they are not any better come election time, it is not going to be good for a Democrat.

BROWN: What do you think, Kirsten?

POWERS: Oh, that's fascinating to me, because I think those are things that work to his advantage. I think an opening has been created here because the Governor is spending so much time trying to keep his right flank happy. He is taking some pretty extreme positions that are even out of the mainstream among, if you take the abortion law, it's even out of the mainstream for a lot of pro-life people.

So I think it has created an opening for Beto to come in there while he is trying to fight over here and fight off challengers on his right flank and it is giving him -- it's just created an opportunity for him and he hasn't done a great job with coronavirus either.

So I think that almost beat Ted Cruz, he has obviously, you know, run in the state before. He has experience, and I think that he -- you know, he could be a very strong contender.

BROWN: I want to talk about something that will no doubt be hanging over that race in 2022 and 2024 and that is, of course, this big lie where more and more people are believing it.

President Trump -- former President Trump, he has formally endorsed three of his big lie promoters for state level positions overseeing elections in 2024 when he could be running for office, all three crucial battleground states that he lost. Election experts are alarmed by this. Why aren't we seeing more Republican leaders speaking out against this trend, Alice?

STEWART: That's a great question. Election officials are alarmed by it and traditional Republicans are disgusted by it really. The election was free and fair, Joe Biden won, Donald Trump lost. And I think it's important that people understand that these elections were free and fair when Donald Trump won in 2016, and they were the same in 2020.

The problem that Republicans and those who support the big lie have if they want to continue to litigate what happened in 2020, that's going to be a losing formula. We need to focus on the future and focus on the policies that unite us moving forward as opposed to the grievances that divide us from the past.

And if they don't do that, it's not going to be good in the midterms.

BROWN: What about you know, there is the issue that Alice is speaking about looking to the past rather than the future, but also how this is hurting confidence among the American people in this country's election system and democracy?

POWERS: Yes, well, there's a poll that came out recently that showed that it's become part of the identity of a lot of Trump supporters that they don't -- a lot of Republicans who are also Trump supporters, that they don't believe the election was fair. This has actually become really critical to their identity and so, it's sort of a test of how much you support Trump.

And so yes, it's completely undermined people's trust in the system, which is the point. And that's why Donald Trump does this. We watched him do it for four years. All he does is convinced people that they can't trust the system and that the only person they can trust is him.

BROWN: All right, Kirsten Powers, Alice Stewart, thank you for that very civil discussion.

STEWART: Thank you.

BROWN: It really was, but it was important and I think we covered a lot of ground. So thank you both.

Well, a simple Facebook post changed the life of one man and a family he'd never met. My Champion for Change is next.

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BROWN: All this week in a special series called Champions for Change, we will spotlight innovative thinkers and bold doers challenging norms and making lasting impacts.

Well, my champion is my big brother, Lincoln. Since we were little, I've looked up to him because he has such a big heart, always wanting to give others a chance without seeking any recognition for it.

And this story we're about to show you is an example of that.

A few years ago he gave Christmas presents to an immigrant family in need and that one positive act led to a whole community rallying around and helping the family.

[19:50:01]

BROWN: Today, the mom and her three children are thriving after a difficult start in America.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Lincoln and Will have forged a bond that has changed both of their lives for the rest of their lives.

LINCOLN BROWN, PAMELA BROWN'S BROWN: Christmas 2018, I was just looking for another way to give back. I posted on Facebook for the first time in years, I just said, "Hey, if you know a family that needs help, or anyone needs help, let me know."

The teacher reached out to me and said, hey, there's a family. They're in bad shape. They need help. And can you bring in some presents? And the first time I met Will, he just moved here from Tanzania. His mom has to make money to go to work, but his mom has a daughter,

and there's no daycare, there's no childcare. So, what is she supposed to do? How many times Will then has to stay home take care of his two- year-old little sister?

He just gave us a lot of big hugs and was so sweet and kind. Will just really left an imprint on my heart.

WILL: I told Lincoln, you're my only friend I have.

P. BROWN: They walked away and that he felt like that wasn't right. There needs to be more done. And just by getting some friends on Facebook to pitch in, suddenly, this family that had so little, felt so displaced had this community rallying around them.

L. BROWN: About 52 people who since that first period almost three years ago have contributed and been a part of his life. Some really small, and some really big ways, but they all matter, right? It wasn't any one person, it was really a group effort.

WILL: They call me, "Will, I need you to take you and your sister. Let go to a playground. Let's go play soccer."

P. BROWN: They were total strangers.

WILL: Yes. I feel loved.

P. BROWN: And with the fun also came tutoring, so Will could learn English.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Remember that's that hard word? Zany.

WILL: Zany.

P. BROWN: I've seen will go from the shy kid who didn't speak any English to now this confident kid who knows English pretty well now, has so many friends and has a big smile on his face every day.

Lincoln took the simple step of reaching out to others. One positive act can lead to another positive act. It's not just my brother, it's the community and it shows the power of collective support.

The momentum kept building. Lincoln and the community decided to renovate a house. Will pitched in eager to help what he thought was another family in need.

WILL: I was working very hard as I can because I knew it was to help someone.

L. BROWN: He really got his hands dirty, learned the trade.

This house is really for you and your family.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a gift, buddy.

L. BROWN: Yes. It really is, this is for you and your family. WILL: They gave me something amazing. It was the house which they gave

me on Christmas, which I didn't realize it would be my house.

L. BROWN: It was really the group that came together and everyone pitched in in their own way.

P. BROWN: My whole life, I've seen my brother be a champion for change firsthand. Lincoln's never been one to do things the conventional way, and he's always had a big heart and always wanted to serve others.

L. BROWN: Sometimes you just need someone to believe in you in life, to give you a chance, to get you going to fly where your own life picks up and then you're good and you can swim on your own.

I can't wait to see where Will is 10 years from now, not because I'm going to push him too hard, but the kid is going to work harder than anybody else. He's going to give everything he's got.

P. BROWN: I think sometimes we all stay in our little cocoon, our little community, what feels safe, what feels right. But family comes in all different shapes and sizes. It doesn't just need to be a blood relative.

WILL: I learned, you have to help people no matter if they're white, black, you have to help them.

Lincoln now is like a family. He is like a brother, a father, and a best friend.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And Will is like family to us. He really is part of the family. I have no doubt, Will be profiled in him as a champion for change in the years to come. And I'm so glad my brother agreed to this. He did not want to, he is one to seek the spotlight. But I basically told him I'm going to do this story with or without you.

So I'm so glad he agreed and hopefully it inspires others.

And we're going to continue to share these inspirational stories all this week and be sure to tune in next Saturday night at 8:00 p.m. Eastern for the Champions for Change one hour special.

And before we leave you, talk about taking social distancing to extremes.

This story is crazy. Look at this. This is a man on a 2,000 foot slackline which is kind of like a bungee tightrope stretching from the Eiffel Tower right across the River Seine. Oh, and it's more than 230 feet off the ground.

Well that dare devil's name is Nathan Paulin. And believe it or not, he says, slacklining -- get this -- that it is brought him quote, "true inner peace."

[19:55:10] BROWN: Well, thank you for watching. I'll see you again next weekend.

Have a great work week.

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