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Doctor Violates Texas Abortion Ban; Biden Administration's Big Week; Pfizer Says Vaccine Safe For Children 5-11; Democrats Tie Debt Limit to Spending Bill. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired September 20, 2021 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:59]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: All right, top of a new hour. Thanks for staying with us. I'm Victor Blackwell.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: And I'm Alisyn Camerota.

We are following breaking developments out of Capitol Hill, Democrats announcing moments ago they will tie an increase in the debt limit to the government spending bill. This move sets up a looming showdown with Republicans.

BLACKWELL: For more, let's bring it now Manu Raju and Lauren Fox on Capitol Hill.

Lauren, I want to start with you. Walk us through what this decision means and how it will work.

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Well, essentially, Democrats are daring Republicans to vote against an increase in the debt ceiling.

There, of course, is a looming deadline coming some time in mid- October to raise the country's debt limit for what Democrats say is money that they have already borrowed with Republicans, given all the spending for coronavirus over the last year-and-a-half.

Now, Republicans have been saying over and over again that they are not going to join with Democrats to actually increase that debt limit. But, here, Democrats are saying, well, if you want to keep the government open, if you don't want to vote for a government shutdown, you also have to vote to increase the debt limit.

We, of course, have known for several weeks that this is the direction that Democrats were likely headed. But they are making it official in a new letter from both Schumer and Pelosi to their colleagues, saying that this is the route they are going, and it's going to be a very bumpy few couple days on Capitol Hill.

CAMEROTA: Manu, correct me if I'm wrong. Didn't Republicans easily raise the debt limit under President Trump two years ago?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, they did.

And Democrats have moved along with Republicans in that regard, even after Donald Trump's and the Republican majorities in the House in the Senate cut taxes, a range of taxes and corporations and individuals. Ultimately, they did agree to raise the debt limit.

But times have changed, namely, that now Joe Biden is president and now that Joe Biden is pushing through a very ambitious domestic agenda. He's already passed roughly $2 trillion in COVID relief that was opposed by virtually every single Republican in the House and the Senate.

And now there's a new effort moving forward, a $3.5 trillion economic package that Democrats are trying to get through. They want to move this very quickly, potentially within the next week, even though there are significant divisions that make it almost impossible for them to achieve that.

But the reason why they're pushing very quickly to get the larger bill done is there's that separate $1.2 trillion bipartisan infrastructure package that passed the Senate last month. There's a waiting action in the House.

Now, Nancy Pelosi has agreed to create -- to set a date, September 27, that key date to have a vote on the infrastructure package. But a number of liberals, Democratic liberals in the House, are threatening to vote against that package if that larger Democratic-only bill has not passed both chambers of Congress by then.

One congresswoman, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, just told me moments ago she is a no if this bill, infrastructure bill moves forward next week, if that larger bill is not moved forward. And she took a shot at moderate Democrats, calling them destructive, including senators like Senator Joe Manchin, who earlier today told me this when I asked him about whether there should be a delay in these talks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): And if there's not enough clarity, then you need to get clarity, and people need to know what tax reforms and where we stand nationwide and where the inflation is, all the things I have talked about.

RAJU: You want it delayed until next year, right?

MANCHIN: No, I didn't -- you know what I said? I said, let's wait and see whatever we need. We will have a good idea.

The main thing is inflation, if it is transitory or not, you have a better idea once we get into a little bit longer, but, right now, inflation is still high. And now we understand that natural gas prices are higher than they have ever been in West Virginia too. And people end up paying the highest is the ones who can't afford it.

So we got to worry about all these things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So this is where the challenge is for the Democratic leaders. They have moderates like Manchin saying slow down on that larger package. Instead, pass the small infrastructure bill. Then you have liberals like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez says wait on the infrastructure, pass the larger package.

[15:05:02]

But can the Democratic leaders keep it together? They have zero margin for error in the Senate. They can only lose three votes in the House. It's very unclear whether they can do just that.

BLACKWELL: Manu, Speaker Pelosi made this promise to some of the more moderate members that there would be a vote in the next week, a week from today.

Is there any wiggle room on that deadline, considering what we have heard now from Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez?

RAJU: At the moment, it does not seem so, even though, yesterday, Jim Clyburn, who is the number three in the House Democratic leadership, suggested to our colleague Jake Tapper that there would be possibility that they could delay that September 27 vote.

But, behind the scenes, they have sought to reassure those moderate Democrats that there would in fact be that vote. And part of the issue is that concern that, if they delay that vote, those same moderate members who they need to pass the larger Democratic agenda of $3.5 trillion, or however large it ends up being, they need those votes. And if they delay that vote on the smaller bill, they may cost them their votes on the bigger bill.

Shows you just the incredible complicated balancing act that they have to try to get this done and raises the question whether they can get anything done, or whether it will all collapse under its own weight -- guys.

CAMEROTA: Yes, so many moving parts, and the clock is ticking.

BLACKWELL: It is.

CAMEROTA: Lauren Fox, Manu Raju, thank you very much.

OK, now to COVID, some good news for parents with school-aged kids. Pfizer has released the first data on its vaccines in children as young as 5, and the company says its vaccine is safe for 5 through 11- year-olds and shows a -- quote -- "robust antibody response."

BLACKWELL: And you remember today was supposed to have been the start of the widespread rollout of booster shots. But that isn't happening, at least yet, after an FDA advisory panel recommended a booster only for Americans 65 and older and those who are deemed to be at high risk for COVID.

CNN's national correspondent Kristen Holmes joins us live. Kristen, let's focus on those 5-to-11-year-olds, because so many

parents have been waiting for some good news on a vaccine for them. What does this mean about the potential deadline -- or the timeline, I should say, for getting shots in arms?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Victor and Alisyn, we can really not stress enough how big of a deal this is.

I mean, this is the first step in that process of actually getting shots into the arms of children, which, as you say, couldn't come at a more critical time. This is also the first time we're seeing any sort of vaccine data for this age group.

And, as you said, they're saying it's safe, not only that, that it generates a robust immune response. And the company reports that there were no cases of myocarditis, which is that heart inflammation that is sometimes linked to mRNA vaccines, so all positive notes here.

Now, the Pfizer company says that they are going to submit this data to the FDA soon for emergency use authorization. But, of course, the big question is, as you say, what is the timing here? So we heard from Scott Gottlieb earlier today, who kind of estimated this. He's the former head of the FDA. Take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB, FORMER FDA COMMISSIONER: Depending on how long the FDA takes to review the application, whether it's a four-week review or a six-week review, you could have an vaccine available to children as early as probably by the end of October. Perhaps it slips a little bit into November.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: So, obviously, here that would be ideal, end of October, early November.

But I also want to break down a little bit more for reference here. Take a look at this. This is the timeline that we saw when the vaccine was put out under emergency use authorization for 12-to-15-year-olds.

You saw, March 31, Pfizer announced that top-line results, that, of course, what we're seeing today, then, a week-and-a-half later, on April 9, actually submitted that data to the FDA. Then it was about a month later, May 10, that that emergency use authorization was amended, and it included this age group.

So, again, this could not come at more of a critical time here as parents are trying to figure out what they're going to do with their kids who are unvaccinated. There are schools without masks. And they're worried about it.

And I do want to note one other thing, because there was another piece of good news out of Pfizer today. It was that they are expecting the trial data for infants as young as 6 months old soon, so something else we're keeping an eye on. BLACKWELL: All right, Kristen Holmes, thank you.

Joining us now is Dr. James Hildreth. He is the president and CEO at Meharry Medical College in Nashville. He's also a member of the FDA Advisory Committee.

Dr. Hildreth, thank you so much for being with us.

Let me start with the timeline that Kristen laid out for the initial emergency use authorization, about a month from the submission of the data to the authorization from the FDA. Is that the timeline on which you expect this to happen or could it shift significantly?

DR. JAMES HILDRETH, PRESIDENT AND CEO, MEHARRY MEDICAL COLLEGE: I wouldn't expect it to shift significantly.

But, as the former commissioner just stated, it all depends on how long the FDA takes to review the data that's submitted to them. But I suspect that, before the end of the year, vaccines will probably be available for children in this age group, 5 to 11, and sometime later for the younger children.

[15:10:17]

CAMEROTA: This will be such good news for parents who feel like they have just been walking through a mine field every day with sending their kids back to school, not knowing every day if their 5-to-11- year-olds are going to come home sick, not knowing what to do.

I mean, so many people will heave a sigh of relief. But Victor and I have been talking about this. Not all 11-year-olds are built the same.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Like, how did they -- with an 11-year-old, you can be a full-blown adolescent or you can be a kid still. And so since it's not based on height or weight, why wouldn't some parents of big 11-year- olds say, well, I'm just going to wait for the adult dose when they turn 12?

HILDRETH: I wouldn't recommend that, actually, because even though they may be larger than other kids their age, children are not small versions of adult. Their systems are still developing.

And we want to make sure that the vaccines are absolutely safe for them. That's why we use the smallest possible dose and children. I think in the much younger group of 6 months to 5 years old, they're going to probably use three micrograms as the dose. And in this age group of 5 to 11, they're using 10 micrograms.

So we want to use the smallest possible that those for the age group in question, but I would not advise parents of children who are larger than their age group typically would be to go and get an adult version of this vaccine. That would not be a wise decision, in my opinion.

BLACKWELL: OK. As I mentioned at the top, today was supposed to be the start of the rollout of boosters for those 16 and up for Pfizer. But, of course, the FDA panel on which you are a member -- of which you're a member, I should say, voted for 65 and older and those at risk.

I wonder what you are waiting for, what you still need to see to determine for those under 65 that they need those boosters.

HILDRETH: So, Victor, it really came down to not having enough data to be comfortable making the recommendation.

When it was all said and done, there were just a little more than 300 participants in the study that we represented. And we didn't think that that was sufficient data to move forward in the way that it was presented to us. We had an additional concern about myocarditis in young men.

We know that there was an uptick in the number of cases after the second dose. And if the myocarditis is related to the immune response, if you now give a third dose, and that's an even stronger response than the second dose, we were concerned that maybe the uptick in cases for the third dose would be even more significant.

So we just felt we needed some more data to be comfortable mechanism available to the whole entire public. But we did feel comfortable that, for those older than 65 and those most at risk for severe disease, including the immunocompromised, that boosters would be appropriate at this time.

But it just came down to the data that we had in front of us to make the decision on.

BLACKWELL: All right, Dr. James Hildreth, thank you so much for your time and insight, sir.

HILDRETH: Thank you for having me.

BLACKWELL: Well, from diplomatic disputes to a humanitarian crisis at the border, and now a domestic agenda in limbo, President Biden is facing some major challenges.

So how the White House plans to tackle all these issues.

BLACKWELL: And a Texas doctor says that he has defied Texas' new strict abortion law. You're going to hear him explain why.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:18:25]

CAMEROTA: President Biden will address the U.N. General Assembly tomorrow to talk about a global response to the major issues of the world like COVID and climate change.

He will also directly address his decision to end the war in Afghanistan. His speech comes at a time when he is facing several crises unfolding

both at home and abroad.

CNN White House correspondent Jeremy Diamond is with us now.

So do we know anything about what the president will say tomorrow, some details about his speech and his plans to address all that's happening now?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, listen, this is going to be a consequential week for President Biden on the world stage.

This speech tomorrow at the U.N. General Assembly, officials have told us that the president, in this speech, he's going to be looking to close the book on the last 20 years of the U.S. war in Afghanistan as coming just weeks after the last U.S. troops left that country.

And he's going to be looking -- talking about what comes next. And what comes next, according to these officials, is a focus from the United States on the power of diplomacy, on the power of those alliances.

But perhaps what's most notable about the focus of this speech is what has come in the last several weeks, and that is that that U.S. commitment to alliances has really come under question, especially given the focus and the emphasis that President Biden has put on this.

It's come under question from some of those Afghan allies who felt perhaps betrayed by the U.S. withdrawal. It's coming your question by the French, who recalled their ambassador last week after this submarine deal brokered by the United States that undermined a French deal with Australia for its own submarines. And so all of this is kind of coming into the fore, into focus at the same time.

[15:20:03]

There's also, of course, things happening domestically, the president's legislative agenda really hanging in the balance this week, as House Democrats work to finish work on this budget reconciliation proposal.

There is that September 27 deadline next week to pass that infrastructure bill. That is the deadline that Speaker Nancy Pelosi promised House moderates, that she would bring up that bill by that date, so a lot happening at the same time here.

But, certainly, on the world stage, we will see the president make this commitment to alliances and to diplomacy tomorrow. But, again, it comes in stark contrast to what we have seen recently. I asked the White House press secretary, Jen Psaki, about that today. She said that she does not believe that there is a credibility crisis for the United States.

And she said that, while the U.S. is committing to those alliances, that doesn't mean that the U.S. is always going to agree with its allies, or vice versa.

CAMEROTA: OK, Jeremy Diamond, thank you for setting the table for us and laying all that out.

Let's bring in now CNN political director David Chalian.

David, Jeremy just listed it, but I think that we need a visual graphic to capture all of the things, and including the setbacks, that President Biden has had to deal with. So, yes, he's going to be meeting with allies of the U.N. this week. He also was just delivered that parliamentarian's spiking the immigration cause in that $3.5 trillion bill.

There's this dispute with France over submarines, the migrant crisis that we're seeing in Del Rio, Texas, the drone strike that killed Afghan civilians, as well as children. FDA panel rejected the administration's booster plan. Possible infrastructure vote delay. AOC has just thrown up a roadblock on that one, and the looming debt ceiling battle that Republicans say they're not going to contribute with.

This is why I don't run for president.

(CROSSTALK)

BLACKWELL: This is why? OK. All right, now we know.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: I was just about to say, Alisyn, do you wish you woke up as president this morning?

CAMEROTA: No, I don't. No, I don't. This is a lesson for all of us who are considering running for president right there.

CHALIAN: It is.

And this is why the job is what it is. I mean, the big problems end up on the president's plate. And, quite frankly, Joe Biden's political standing is going to be determined by a lot of how this stuff on that list shakes out. It is a mountain of headaches. But that's the job he signed up for.

BLACKWELL: So, as we look ahead to his speech at the UNGA this week, just detail -- put a point on it, the importance of this speech ahead of his meeting with world leaders.

CHALIAN: Yes, remember, Joe Biden sort of sold himself to the American people in part on his foreign policy credentials, the guy who said: I served as chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. I was vice president for eight years. You're getting a president who has more experience on the world stage and more relationships with world leaders than most people who normally step into this job at the outset. That's sort of the credentials that he was selling. And you heard him say that he was going to put forth this whole notion that America is back.

Well, there are real questions among even some allies, in NATO allies, about the consultation about the Afghanistan withdrawal, obviously, this whole issue with France right now and the recalling of the ambassador and the way in which the Biden administration sort of laid the groundwork for that deal with Australia and the U.K., leaving France out of it, and, of course, also just sort of the terrible moment that was just announced by the U.S. military on Friday about the killing of those civilians.

So, there were a lot of issues that sort of make you put a question mark around that notion of America is back. Is this what America looks like when the president is saying it's back? I think those are some of the questions that hang over Biden as he goes on to the world stage this week.

CAMEROTA: David Chalian, thank you for explaining all of that.

CHALIAN: Sure.

CAMEROTA: All right, well, it is 1972 all over again, meaning pre-Roe vs. Wade. Those are the words coming from a Texas doctor, who says he is defying the Texas restrictive abortion law.

So we will have more of his stunning admission and what it means for him.

BLACKWELL: And we're also keeping an eye on Wall Street during the final hour of trading. The Dow is down sharply, about 900 points right now. We will explain why next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:29:04]

BLACKWELL: Just announced today, the Supreme Court will hear the case on a Mississippi abortion law on December 1. And that tees up what will be one of the most impactful cases in the term, in which the justices are being asked to overturn Roe vs. Wade.

And a lot of legal analysts say the court has already made a move against that landmark ruling by failing to stop the most restrictive abortion law in the nation right now. That's the ban on abortion as early as six weeks in Texas.

CAMEROTA: Now one Texas doctor has just opened himself up to lawsuits by anyone in the country, because there's that enforcement process that's outlined in the Texas ban where anybody can sue somebody who helps a woman get an abortion.

Dr. Alan Braid just admitted in a "Washington Post" op-ed that he has violated the Texas abortion ban.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

DR. ALAN BRAID, OB/GYN: For me, it is 1972 all over again.