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Today, Biden Meets with Key Dems amid Stalemate over Agenda; FBI Asks for Help Finding Petito's Fiance as Search Intensifies; Trump Sues Niece, NYT Reporters for Disclosure of Tax Docs. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired September 22, 2021 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: I appreciate your time today on Inside Politics. We'll see you back here this time tomorrow.

Ana Cabrera picks up right now.

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York. Thanks so much for being with us.

We are following several stories as they unfold this hour. The manhunt intensifies. The FBI now asking for the public's help in locating Brian Laundrie, the fiance of Gabby Petito, whose death has now been ruled a homicide. A retired FBI profiler will join us just minutes from now.

Also this afternoon, your health, your money up for debate. Right now, scientific advisers to the CDC are meeting to discuss who exactly should be eligible for a Pfizer vaccine booster shot. That's assuming the FDA authorizes the emergency use of a third shot.

And President Biden has now summoned top Democrats to the White House to stave off the dire threat of an economic crisis. A potential government shutdown this month and a government default on its debts could trigger a worst case scenario. Millions of jobs lost, a massive hit to the stock market and your retirement nest egg.

Let's start there. President Biden having to play peacemaker within his own party with his economic agenda being held hostage. Progressives vow to vote against his $1 trillion infrastructure plan on Monday, that's the bipartisan package, while moderates are adamant it be brought to a vote next week, and in the background, the grim specter of a government shutdown and failure to pay its bills.

CNN's Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill. And, Manu, just minutes ago, the White House received an unwelcome prediction from a fellow Democrat. Tell us about that.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRSEPONDENT: Yes. Senator Joe Manchin, the West Virginia Democrat, who has been central to these negotiations because of his concerns about the large price tag that Democrats want to push in a Democratic-only approach, that $3.5 trillion plan, he wants that pared back down substantially. He wants significant changes to it. And, of course, they need all 50 Senate Democrats to vote yes in order for this to eventually become law.

He told just earlier today that he does not think -- so, he said, quote, I don't think so, when asked if they can actually get a deal together by next week. That's important because there's a separate vote expected on Monday in the House for that bipartisan infrastructure that he supported along with others in the Senate, passed last month in the Senate, waiting action in the House. The progressives in the House are threatening to tank that bipartisan infrastructure deal if that larger economic package hasn't been approved by Congress by then.

But Manchin makes it very clear, there is a long way to go to get that larger deal done. He doesn't think it's going to happen next week. It's unclear when that will happen. But that's why it's important today for Biden sitting down with Democrats. Can he get his party together? If not, it all could collapse.

CABRERA: And, Manu, on this crucial deadline attacked to America's debt, how much of the need to raise the debt limit now as a result of the last administration's economic policies, like the Trump tax cuts?

RAJU: That's certainly the argument Democrats have been making here, that so much debt was accumulated during the Trump administration. And in December of 2017, Republicans voted along party lines using the same budget process that Democrats are using now for their own economic package, but using a budget process at that point to cut taxes, it past straight party lines.

A couple months later, then the Senate and the House had bipartisan majorities supported by Democrats who were in the minority at the time to suspend the national debt ceiling. Earlier today, I asked the number two Senate Republican, John Thune, about that discrepancy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: In 2017, you guys cut taxes and then a few months later, Democrats joined you to suspend the debt ceiling. If it was good for them then, why is it not good for you now?

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): Well, I think that in those circumstances, you had one negotiation. I think there were -- yes, tax reform was done through reconciliation, but a lot of the other discussions at the time were accomplished by bipartisan negotiation. The Democrats, since they got the majority in January, have done nothing but do everything at 51 votes. They're doing all their agenda through reconciliation.

RAJU: Including the bipartisan infrastructure on --

THUNE: Well, that's true. And that's an example of how Republicans will work with them if they would reach out and try to negotiate on a bipartisan basis. But everything they're doing in terms of the new -- the massive spending bill, the tax increases that go with it, it's going to be done at 51 votes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And that is the key point. He is saying that they're not going to allow -- give any votes, at least ten Republican votes that would be needed under the current process that Democrats are pursuing to raise the debt limit, saying it has to be done along straight party lines, their own budget process. Democrats do not want to go along straight party lines. They say Republicans have some ownership of all this, and as a result of that procedural breakdown, it means can they raise the debt limit or will they stare at a government shutdown, which could occur as soon as next week.

[13:05:07]

Ana?

CABRERA: Okay. Thank you so much, Manu Raju, on Capitol Hill. Keep us posted.

And, of course, we're also following this other major story right now related to the disappearance and now confirmed death of Gabby Petito. She was the woman who had gone on this long road trip with her fiance who is now missing, Brian Laundrie.

I want to go to Amara Walker who is live in Florida where the search continues for Laundrie. Amara, what is the latest on the search, any progress?

AMARA WALKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there are some new developments to talk about. So, first off, we're at the Carlton Reserve on the Venice side. The focus of the search shifted to the west side today from the southeast side yesterday. And about an hour ago, what we saw was a large van and a boat. It turns out that that was the underwater dive team that was arriving from the Sarasota Sheriff's Department. This team is called SURF, which stands for Sheriff's Underwater Recovery Force.

And according to the Sarasota Sherriff's Department's website, this team is a highly trained underwater specialist force, and they're actually called upon, according to the website, when they are needed to search for evidence of crimes or perhaps even victims of drownings, accidents or foul play.

At this time, that's all we know right now. We don't know why the underwater team, dive team was called in about an hour ago. We don't know what exactly they might be looking for, but that is the biggest movement we've seen here so far at the Carlton Reserve here in Venice.

But I can tell you, Ana, this is going to be one very challenging search for even these specialists, because we're told -- I mean, this is a reserve, a 25,000-acre reserve that is mostly covered in water, much of it waist-deep water, maybe even deeper, and these waters are infested with alligators and snakes. So, again, a very difficult search because of the rugged terrain that authorities have been pointing to.

I also want to point out, and it's interesting to take note, that this search here at the Carlton Reserve was actually called off after a search was completed on Sunday. Authorities said, look, North Port Police, they said, we've exhausted all avenues. The search is over.

And then on Monday, a search warrant was executed by the FBI at the North Port, Florida, home of Brian Laundrie's family. Brian Laundrie is the man that everyone is looking for right now. And during that search warrant, the FBI was there for several hours. They took boxes and bags of evidence from what we saw from our vantage point, and also a car was towed away. And then you fast-forward to Tuesday. The search resumed at the Carlton Reserve, and again, it's continuing today on this Wednesday.

So, again, it's unclear why it was called off and now authorities are back, but right now, there is a dive team on the ground right now, and we'll keep you posted if we hear anything, Ana.

CABRERA: Okay. We appreciate that, thank you, Amara Walker. Let's discuss with former Senior FBI Profiler and Special Agent Mary Ellen O'Toole, and for all our legal questions, CNN Legal Analyst and former Federal Prosecutor Jennifer Rodgers is with us as well.

Mary, let's talk about the investigation first. It has been more than a week since Laundrie was reportedly last seen. Walk us through the challenges officials are up against right now. Why has it been so hard to find him?

MARY ELLEN O'TOOLE, FORMER SENIOR FBI PROFILER: Well, I believe it's so difficult to find him because, right now, the area where they're looking is just a challenge to them. But I think the thing that is important is it's the investigators that have all the resources. They have the manpower, they have the technology, they have the support that they need.

Brian has none of those things. Brian, more than likely, unless he has died or committed suicide, which has to be taken into consideration, his resources are waning. He's going to need food, he's going to need water, he's going to need to replace items of clothing. He's under a tremendous amount pressure right now. And when that happens in a fugitive situation, the judgment breaks down, the decision-making breaks down and the offender begins to deteriorate. And so once that happens, they have to reach out for other people to help him.

So, again, if he's still alive and he is in that environment, eventually, he's going to have to come out of it. But, again, right now, at this point, we're talking about is he dead versus is he still out there, and he'll have to eventually to reach out to people. So, both scenarios are certainly a possibility.

CABRERA: And, Jennifer, as this search continues, investigators are trying to piece together exactly what happened to Gabby Petito. Now that her remains have been identified and her death ruled a homicide, what changes legally about this case?

[13:10:00]

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Ana, it's very hard to charge someone with murder without a body. Because, of course, one of the things you have to prove first is that the person has been murdered, they're dead. So, the fact that her body has now been found means that, of course, those charges can be brought as soon as they have enough evidence.

The second thing is because they're able to do forensics on the body, they may gather evidence about who committed the murder from that. So, for example, there is going to be DNA and other types of forensic evidence near or on Gabby Petito's body from Brian Laundrie, because they were romantic partners and they were together, but if, for example, his DNA is found under her finger fingernails, that might give evidence if they struggled before her death and he is the one who killed her. So, they'll be looking for all those sorts of pieces of evidence as they move towards hopefully filing charges on this murder.

CABRERA: And, Mary, given what we know, right, the couple was taking this cross-country road trip together. There was the chilling 911 phone call in Utah, which reveals the couple was reportedly fighting in their van before a witness called police. And then we saw Petito visibly upset on that police body cam footage, plus, just the fact that he returned to Florida without Petito and was unwilling to talk to investigators. Is there a reason why Laundrie hasn't been named an official suspect yet?

O'TOOLE: I'm not sure why they haven't elevated that, but I know working in law enforcement for many years, it was an exchange of sometimes it was a person of interest, sometimes it was a suspect. But the law enforcement, certainly the ones that are working this case, Brian is a suspect in this case at this point in time, in part because -- large part because they found the body, so they know manner of death was homicide, they probably know already the cause of death. Investigators, I'm sure, are aware of that.

They're looking at his behavior and they're looking at what behavior he hasn't engaged in. So they're looking at when he got back to Florida. Did he reach out for Gabby? Did he reach out to friends of Gabby to say, hey, have you heard from her? Did he contact her parents? So, they're looking at forensics, the behavior and the lack of behavior, which add up to is this somebody we want to pursue as a suspect or is there somebody else we're simply not aware of. But everything at this point seems to point to him, so they need to contact him, they need to find him. If he's still alive, they need to be able to sit down and talk to him.

CABRERA: Mary Ellen O'Toole, thank you so much for your expertise. Jennifer Rodgers, stand by. I want to get your take on another legal story we're following.

Former President Trump hitting his niece, Mary Trump, today with a lawsuit along with several reporters from The New York Times over the publication of his tax information. Now, the lawsuit alleges Mary Trump violated a settlement agreement among the family by disclosing some of the former president's tax information to The Times. Trump is also accusing the times journalist of interfering with that settlement agreement. And Jennifer is back with us on this.

Jennifer, do you think this lawsuit goes anywhere?

RODGERS: I don't. This is a really, really poorly drafted complaint with very little support. I was actually a little surprised to see how poorly it was done. I mean, more than a year ago, President Trump tried to stop the publication of Mary Trump's book on this exact basis, that it was in violation of this agreement that they had settled upon as part of the disagreement over the probate of her grandfather's estate. And it failed in court. So, The New York Times defendants have absolutely no concerns here. Their First Amendment rights are going to prevail in this matter.

And as for the contract claim against Mary Trump, that doesn't seem to have anything to it either. I mean, it's hard to tell for sure without seeing the contract. But if they quoted the best parts of that agreement in their complaint, it's not even there, because it doesn't prohibit them from disclosing the discovery information, in other words, the tax returns.

So I don't really know exactly what it's based on. It kind of causes me to question why it's being filed at all, but I don't see any merit there at all.

CABRERA: Well, Trump is seeking damages to be determined at the trial, but the lawyers in this lawsuit throw out the number of no less than $100 million in damages. What do you make of that number?

RODGERS: Well, of course, it's just kind of plucked from thin air, although, in fairness, these kinds of damages most numbers are. But one question it raises is all he's complaining about is the disclosure of the tax information and the resulting news article from The New York Times. He doesn't say that that information isn't true, that those weren't actually his tax returns. So it's hard to know how he can possibly be damaged, especially to the tune of $100 million for the disclosure of truthful information. So, I'm not sure. We'll have to see how it gets sorted out in the courts.

CABRERA: And given the one that he's the one going there, bringing up his taxes, could this backfire? Could that ultimately result in his taxes becoming public?

RODGERS: That's one of the reasons I'm so curious about why he's filing this. I mean, listen, the former president has done everything in his power to avoid testifying under oath, to avoid speaking under oath at all in the last five years for a variety of reasons.

[13:15:02]

This will subject him to a deposition, if it goes forward into discovery. So, that's one of the reasons it's really questionable.

It also brings up an episode that is really unflattering to him. I mean, that New York Times expose not only showed that he basically committed a massive tax fraud but that he was not a self-made man, he was not a successful businessman. So, why he wants to dredge all of that up again and subject himself to testimony under oath is a real question for me. He must be trying to distract from something bigger. CABRERA: Jennifer Rodgers, it's always great to have you with us. I really appreciate it. Thank you.

RODGERS: Thanks, Ana.

CABRERA: Coming up, back to our top story, millions of jobs, a stock market meltdown, perhaps President Biden's legacy all on the line right now, as Congress struggles to hammer out a deal to potentially avert a self-inflicted economic crisis. The man who calls this scenario cataclysmic is here to breakdown why a U.S. default threatens all of us. Stay with us.

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[13:20:00]

CABRERA: President Biden has summoned top Democrats to the White House to stave off the dire threat of an economic crisis, a potential government shutdown this month and a government default on its debts. Now, the political stakes, which we discussed with Manu, couldn't be higher for the Biden White House. The economic stakes though for all of us could be staggering.

Joining us right now, Mark Zandi, Chief Economist for Moody's Analytics. And, Mark, you called this economic scenario specifically related to a debt default cataclysmic. Breakdown your report for us. What happens if the U.S. defaults?

MARK ZANDI, CHIEF ECONOMIST, MOODY'S ANALYTICS: Yes, that's right, Ana. It would be, of course, unprecedented if global investors believe, and with good reason, because from the beginning of the nation, we've been paying our debt on time. They get their principal, they get their interest on time, so they feel like this debt is risk free. It's the benchmark for the entire world. And if that confidence is shaken, if they don't get paid on time, even briefly, that means that they're going to demand a much higher interest rate to compensate for that risk. And that is cataclysmic for the entire financial system.

So, everything is based on that premise that they're going to get paid back. If they don't, then stock prices decline, mortgage rates rise, it's going to be difficult for businesses to raise the cash that they need to fund their daily operations. The economy will be shaken at the core.

And, you know, I think the situation would be so bad and so clear that lawmakers would then have no choice but to react. But if they didn't, if they persisted and this lasted for, say, six weeks or so, then I think we would lose millions of jobs, unemployment would go back close to double digits, the stock market would lose $15trillion worth of value, almost a third of its value. It would be, I think the word, and I used it, is cataclysmic.

CABRERA: You paint sort of a doomsday scenario, but you also say so far this isn't impacting the stock market. So, are we just overblowing this or why isn't the stock market reacting? ZANDI: Well, they've seen this movie before, right? We've been down this path a number of times. It feels like every few years, we're up against the wall here. And when it's all said and done and the script is finally finished, the lawmakers get it together, pass a piece of legislation and increase the debt limit.

So, the stock market and investors are now inured to this process. They think that this is going to work out well in the end. I'm not going to feel good between now and when this happens but we'll get it done. But that may be in itself ironically a problem, because unless investors begin to react and respond and it shows up in stock prices and interest rates, lawmakers might take that as a signal that this is no big deal, no problem, we can actually default, but that would be the wrong signal.

CABRERA: But you say even a close call would cost the economy and taxpayers. That could be bad. How so?

ZANDI: Yes, I believe it would be, even taking it down to the wire here. It depends to some degree on how it's done. I mean, in fact, the Democrats and Republicans come together somehow, pass a piece of legislation, at least the Republicans don't filibuster the process, not that they have to vote for it but they just don't obstruct Democrats from voting for it, then I think no harm no foul, we'll be okay, it's not great but we move forward.

But if the Democrats have to go it alone and use the budget reconciliation process, a very complicated process to get this done, then I think going forward, each party that's in power is going to be on their own here. They're not going to be able to get help from the other party. That means there's going to be more brinkmanship, more uncertainty, and I think it's going to cost us. It's going to cost in the form of high interest rates on all our government debt and that costs our taxpayers and cost to everyone who's getting a mortgage or a car loan or business that is getting a loan to finance their operations.

CABRERA: What's your message then to Republicans who are saying, Democrats, just go it alone? You have the numbers. We don't want to like own this extra debt in having to raise the ceiling, even though they did it three times under Trump. If it isn't done in a bipartisan way, what's the impact?

ZANDI: Well, you know, Ana, I think the message I would say that I get is this is a shared responsibility. Both Democrats and Republicans over the years have come together and voted for legislation that means higher budget deficits and debt. The $3 trillion that were passed last year in 2020 to help the economy navigate through the pandemic, that was all bipartisan.

[13:25:04]

Now, the American rescue plan, that was the Biden $1.9 trillion package passed in March, that was done under reconciliation by the Democrats. But, you know, the Republicans also passed under reconciliation tax cuts under President Trump, they're about -- just about the same.

So, both parties here are adding to deficits and debt by the votes they made in the past and all that's happening now is you have to raise the debt limit so the government can finance what you already voted for. So this is bipartisan. We got into this mess in a bipartisan way. It only makes sense that it should be bipartisan to ensure that we don't have this kind of cataclysmic event.

CABRERA: Mark Zandi, I always appreciate the great expertise that you offer us in helping to break it down and simplify these complicated economic issues. I appreciate it. Thank you.

Right now, CDC advisers are debating which Americans should get COVID- 19 booster shots, but the FDA is holding up a major part of this decision. Why the delay and the impact it could have. Stay with us.

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