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Authorities Search For Brian Laundrie; Trump Sues Niece; Bipartisan Negotiations on Police Reform End; Biden Pushes Agenda. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired September 22, 2021 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:20]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Hello, and thank you for joining us. I'm Victor Blackwell.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: And I'm Alisyn Camerota.

At any moment, President Biden is set to meet with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, one of many key conversations he is having today, in an effort to break the Democratic stalemate that threatens his agenda.

As one top Democrat puts it, "I hope Biden is the secret sauce."

The president is also meeting with progressive lawmakers this evening, many of whom say they will vote against that bipartisan infrastructure bill, unless it is tied to that $3.5 trillion reconciliation package.

BLACKWELL: Now, the House passed a bill to prevent the government shutdown at the end of the month and to suspend the country's borrowing limit. But Republicans refuse to support that. So this might be going nowhere in the Senate.

CNN senior White House correspondent Phil Mattingly and CNN congressional correspondent Lauren Fox are with us now.

Phil, first, you are describing these meetings as the most expansive in person engagement that the president has undertaken since he took office. Who is he going to see at the White House? And do we know what the president's plan is?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, look, it just underscores the stakes of this moment for the president's -- really his entire domestic agenda kind of hanging in the balance here and two warring factions to some degree inside the party that he's got to figure out some way to reconcile.

Our photojournalist John Bodnar just spotted Speaker Nancy Pelosi pulling up to the White House. Her meeting with the president and Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer is expected to start in a couple of minutes. That will be the first of three meetings the president has scheduled today. He will also meet later this afternoon with a group of moderate Democrats folks that are really focused on the first piece of that agenda, the $1.2 trillion bipartisan infrastructure bill.

Both senators and members of the House, key players there, from people like Senators Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema, to Josh Gottheimer, the House member from New Jersey, who has been a leader on the House side when it comes to infrastructure. Later in the day, the president will sit down with a group of senators -- or with a group of progressives, both from the House and the Senate, in total, 23 lawmakers meeting face to face with the president in the Oval Office.

And, look, people sort of minimize this, but a White House invite is coveted from members on Capitol Hill, no longer -- no matter how long they have been here. It matters to be invited to this place. It matters to sit in the Oval Office with the leader of the free world, with the leader of your party. And it matters when the leader of your party sits people down and says, this is the moment that people need to figure things out and reach some agreement.

And I think that's in large part what the president is going to be pushing forward today, trying to get folks that have been going at one another to calm down, maybe take the temperature down, and try and find a pathway forward on this agenda.

CAMEROTA: So, Lauren, can you explain these internal divisions that we're seeing connected to this legislation?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Well, look, Alisyn, I think this list is really long.

And it starts at the top. How much are you willing to spend on this massive restructuring of the social safety net? That $3.5 trillion price tag we talk about all of the time, it's not set in stone. In fact, there are moderate members who have said that number is too high, they will not vote for that under any circumstances.

There is also division about what to include in this bill and how to pay for it. A lot of the ways that you finance this bill, a lot of the ways you make sure it's fully paid for, it includes raising taxes. And if you're a Democrat running for reelection in a tough district or in a swing state, that is a very hard campaign to run, even if you are trying to explain you're only raising taxes on top earners.

That's a hard fight to fight on the campaign trail. And Democrats know that. I was just talking to the Budget Committee chairman in the House of Representatives, John Yarmuth. And he said, look, it's really hard to even finalize this bill because we don't know how much money we are actually working with at this point.

So, if you don't have a top-line number, it makes doing anything else really complicated. And it makes it impossible to reach that deadline in just a matter of days.

BLACKWELL: Phil, to you. The president before he was vice president spent more than three decades there as a member of Congress. Some believe that his experience in the body is the secret sauce.

Do we know how he's potentially going to use that experience and what he's willing to compromise on? Maybe that's a moot point, because the progressives and the moderates in Congress have to decide what they will compromise on. But what is he willing to give up, if anything?

MATTINGLY: To the latter question, the president matters here.

If the president puts his foot down and says this is the way we're going, then the party, the members, regardless of which side of the Democratic Party they sit on, are going to have to respond.

And so I think a lot of folks I have been talking to on Capitol Hill, both members and staff, are trying to figure out, is the president going to and specifically and say, these are red lines, this is something that has to happen?

[14:05:03]

One thing to keep in mind that I hear often from White House officials is the most important thing here is an outcome. And that's not to say the president wants to compromise on every major issue or pare back every single thing to please moderates or go the other way to please progressives, but he wants an outcome, he needs an outcome. And he believes that's what he campaigned on. And that's what he wants to deliver on.

To your first question, it matters. It matters that he speaks the same language. It matters that he knows what these lawmakers are hearing back home from their constituents, what their day-to-day is like, what their schedule and the rhythms of how they operate. That matters.

If you talk to lawmakers who dealt with former President Trump, who understood none of that because he just wasn't from Congress, they recognized that. That put a lot of roadblocks just into basic conversation. So that's helpful.

One thing I hear constantly from White House officials, when it comes to the president and how he deals with members, is the sense that he has kind of an innate feeling of how to figure out what people want and how to deliver on that. That will be critical. And that will be tested today, guys.

CAMEROTA: Lauren, let's talk about the more basic pressing issues right now.That is the effort to fund the government and to raise the debt ceiling.

And so, as you probably know, there's this bipartisan group of former Treasury secretaries who've warned Congress today that waiting until the last minute to raise the debt ceiling, as they sometimes do, raises the risk of this accidental default, and that would be disastrous for the economy.

So what do Republicans say to that?

FOX: Well, let's take these two bills and talk about them a little bit separately.

Right now, they are tied together. And the House passed them that way for a reason, because they want to put Republicans on the spot. They know Republicans want to make sure the government doesn't shut down, they want to make sure the government's funded. But they also know Republicans are standing in the way of increasing the debt ceiling, and they're going to need 60 votes for that in the current way that they have structured this legislation.

So Democrats are hoping that Republicans give up on their pledge not to raise the debt ceiling. But I will tell you, from talking to Republicans over and over again today, that is very unlikely. So what happens next?

You have a funding deadline that has to happen on September 30, or the government shuts down. And right now, a lot of Republicans are saying, we're willing to fund the government, Democrats need to give up this gambit of tying these two bills together.

But like you noted, coming down to the wire on the debt ceiling is going to be problematic. We don't know exactly what date the country will need to increase its borrowing limit. We know it's some time in mid-October. That's what the Treasury Department has been saying for the last several weeks, but Democrats obviously forcing this issue.

They want to make a show of the fact that Republicans should join with them to pay for the country's debt, money that has already been spent. Republicans looking at them saying, go ahead and force this vote, but we're telling you, you need to do it on your own.

BLACKWELL: All right.

CAMEROTA: Somebody has just been sent in to clean up the mess at the White House.

(LAUGHTER)

BLACKWELL: The Marine opens the door for everybody.

CAMEROTA: That's right.

BLACKWELL: All right, Lauren Fox, Phil Mattingly, thank you both.

All right, just into CNN, we're going to stay on Capitol Hill because the talks over one of the president's key agenda items has just broken down without a deal. We're talking about policing reform. There had been months of negotiating, bipartisan groups coming together. Well, that's over now.

Senator Cory Booker reportedly made that clear in a private conversation with Republican Tim Scott.

CNN's Jessica Dean is on Capitol Hill.

So, Jessica, what ended it?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, at this point, we're told that it wasn't one major issue, but just a variety of issues. In fact, Congresswoman Karen Bass telling my colleague Annie Grayer

just moments ago that it really came down to when they had been meeting with Cory Booker, and he had been meeting with the Fraternal Order of Police and also with the International -- with the sheriffs -- or -- I'm sorry -- with the chief of police union, and they had come to a deal.

But that is when Scott back backed out of that deal, according to her. And that's when things really went awry. But, again, we know in following months and months of this -- I have been here for all of these minutes and these moments -- that they were very close to a deal. And it suddenly just fell apart, that they had tried to bridge the gap on things like qualified immunity and various topics, but they just could not do it.

And now we know that these talks have broken down without a deal in place. Now, here's what Senator Cory Booker said in a statement just a few moments ago.

He said: "Unfortunately, even with this law enforcement support" -- and he's talking about that deal that he says he had struck with them -- "and further compromises we offered, there was still too wide a gulf with our negotiating partner partners and we faced significant obstacles to securing a bipartisan deal."

Now, my colleague Manu Raju spoke with Senator Tim Scott this morning before this announcement was made, Senator Scott saying he was not going to back away from these negotiations, Victor and Alisyn, that he wanted to be here and continue on with them.

I have reached out to him and his office. So far, we have not heard anything from Senator Scott. But the bottom line here, Victor and Alisyn, we are seeing yet another agenda for President Biden falling apart here on Capitol Hill.

[14:10:04]

CAMEROTA: A lot of people in the community are going to be disappointed by that news.

Jessica Dean, thank you.

BLACKWELL: Well, former President Donald Trump has filed a lawsuit in New York state court. This time, he's suing his niece, Mary Trump, and three "New York Times" journalists over what he has called the illegal disclosure of his tax information.

Former President Trump also claims his knees violated a 2001 settlement agreement among the family.

CAMEROTA: Mary Trump said this in response -- quote -- "I think he's a loser. It's desperation. The walls are closing in and he's throwing anything against the wall that he thinks will stick. As is always the case with Donald, he will try and change the subject" -- end quote.

Joining us now is CNN chief political analyst for Gloria Borger and CNN senior legal analyst Elie Honig. He served as assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York.

Great to see both of you.

Gloria, "The New York Times" story that Mary Trump provided the material for in terms of tax documents was in 2018. Why now is former President Trump suing her and the journalists?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think the president doesn't -- need enemies.

And so the enemies are the media, the press. He hinted there's going to be more. Someone on his team hinted there'll be more of this against the so called fake news. So he took on "The New York Times."

It seems to me -- and I'm not the lawyer here, but it's frivolous. It's what Donald Trump does. He likes to throw out lawsuits all the time and to keep himself front and center. When he figures he's not front and center in the way he wants to be, as, in this case, he sees himself as the victim here, he will do it, and he will do it more. And he will do whatever he has to do to keep himself out there, even with things as ridiculous as this.

BLACKWELL: Suing for $100 million.

Elie...

BORGER: Yes. Why not?

BLACKWELL: Yes, pick a number if we're going to sue.

BORGER: Why not?

BLACKWELL: A hundred dollars. Elie, does he have a case? Does he have a chance?

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: No. Gloria is right. This is frivolous.

As a general rule, Donald Trump is just really, really bad at the law. Either he doesn't understand the law or he doesn't care, as I think Gloria was positing right there.

To break this case down into sort of two batches, "The New York Times" has nothing to worry about here. I read the complaint. It's incomprehensible as to how he thinks "The New York Times" did anything wrong in publishing this.

As to Mary Trump, his niece, he alleges that she violated some agreement. But I was saying, OK, good, what's the term in the agreement that she violated? It's just not there in the complaint. So I think he's grasping at straws. And I think he's got some other goal, as Gloria was saying.

CAMEROTA: Well, I mean, the book "Peril" is certainly getting a lot of buzz. And, sometimes, he likes to deflect against those things. And also, Elie, one more legal question for you. He is still facing a

slew of different losses. We have a full screen that show all the criminal cases and civil -- I actually do not have time to go through them all.

But do you think that any of these have traction still?

HONIG: Well, I think, on the criminal cases, no, I would not -- I don't think it's likely Donald Trump is going to get arrested at this point.

I think there was various bases that he could and should have been charged, from Mueller obstruction to January 6, to potentially even with the Trump Organization. But given the signs we're seeing from prosecutors, I don't think it's particularly likely unless something changes.

On the civil side, generally speaking, he's in terrible shape. A lot of these lawsuits are just stunts just for show. I don't look for him to be successful there.

BORGER: And, by the way, if you were "The New York Times," you might want to get Donald Trump into discovery.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

BORGER: I would think you wouldn't mind sitting there and asking him a few questions under oath.

BLACKWELL: Well, speaking of stunts and shows, Gloria, let me come back to you on the Dominion Voting Systems reporting from "The New York Times" that they knew, the campaign knew, because the deputy director of communications for the campaign requested a memo after there were all of these claims that Venezuela was involved, and it was backed by George Soros money, and they maybe were connected to the Internet -- none of it was true.

They got a memo that showed this was not true while they were out front with other attorneys claiming that the election was rigged.

What's the significance here, as we look toward potentially a 2024 run?

BORGER: Well, that the people who worked for Donald Trump knew what would please him. And they then became active participants in this scam, which is exactly what it was. It was a scam.

And they were saying -- and they were risking democracy in doing so. And so they didn't care. They said, let this continue. Let's stir the pot on this. So there were people in the communications department of that campaign who said, could you please tell me what stuff is true and what stuff is fake?

They got a memo, said, none of it is true. None of it is reliable. And yet, when Rudy Giuliani was out there and all those folks were out there, they kept their mouth shut. [14:15:06]

And they kept their mouth shut, because that is what Donald Trump would have wanted. We don't know whether he saw this memo or not. But we know what his talking points were. And his talking points were not what was in that memo.

CAMEROTA: Gloria, one more political question for you before we let you go.

BORGER: OK, sure.

CAMEROTA: Former President George W. Bush is going to be campaigning for Congresswoman Cheney.

BORGER: Yes.

CAMEROTA: And this is significant because we don't often see George W. Bush out on the campaign trail or doing political things since he got out of the presidency. So why now?

BORGER: Well, I think, after his speech on 9/11, which we all heard, which I consider to be an historic speech, in which he said you have to be very careful about the extremists inside this country, I think he's all in.

And I think it is a -- he's saying to Donald Trump, you cannot do this to Liz Cheney. Liz Cheney is a respected member of Congress. She is a true conservative, and I'm going to put my money where my mouth is, and I'm going to do this.

So I think it is hugely significant. You see a lot of other people co- sponsoring that fund-raiser who worked for Bush, including Karl Rove. And you -- I think they're kind of coming out of the woodwork a little bit now, saying, we're not going to hang back. We're going to raise money for her because that is what we can do. We can try and help her. But we are going out there publicly and saying enough is enough.

Whether it will matter remains to be seen. But Bush being public about this is very, very significant.

BLACKWELL: All right. Gloria Borger, Elie Honig, thank you.

BORGER: Thanks.

BLACKWELL: Well, dive teams have arrived as the search intensifies for Gabby Petito's fiance. We are live at the scene of the manhunt next.

CAMEROTA: And a bold promise from President Biden, who says the U.S. will become an arsenal of vaccines in the global fight against COVID. What that means.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:21:24] CAMEROTA: An underwater dive team has arrived at the Carlton Reserve in Florida, where authorities have been searching for Brian Laundrie. The remains of his fiance, Gabby Petito, were identified yesterday in Wyoming, and the coroner ruled her death a homicide.

BLACKWELL: Authorities are looking for your help to find Laundrie, who has now been missing for more than a week.

CNN's Amara Walker is now in North Port, Florida, where the search is going on.

Amara, what are you hearing from investigators?

AMARA WALKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So investigators, Victor, are not telling us much.

But what we did see two hours ago was a large van arriving with a boat on it. So, as you said, it's correct. An underwater dive team with the Sarasota Sheriff's Department has arrived. We are told by authorities that there are 10 divers who are now on the ground. They are participating in the search.

When asked -- when we asked North Port police why this is happening, they basically said, look, there was nothing that was found that led us to request this dive team. This is just part of the overall search process. And this process could take some time. They're saying that this can go into the evening, and authorities also saying that their goal is to cover every acre of this 25,000-acre reserve here at Carlton Reserve.

And, as you have been reporting, this has been a very challenging search here for Brian Laundrie in this reserve area. And that's because the terrain is just so difficult, much of it covered in water. But we do have a dive team that we understand that is on the ground right now. They're a highly trained dive team that is usually called out when they are asked to help find evidence or even help victims in drownings or foul play or accidents, Victor.

CAMEROTA: Amara, we're just reading here in "The San Francisco Chronicle" this new reporting about a woman who claims that she saw Brian Laundrie and his van near where Gabby Petito's body was recovered.

So what's the latest on that?

WALKER: Yes. Yes, so I'm reading the same report right now.

This is coming from "The San Francisco Chronicle," San Francisco Chronicle" talking to a woman by the name of Jessica Schultz. And she says that she spotted the van, Brian Laundrie's van, in Grand Teton National Park, and she saw him as well. And this was spotted near where Gabby Petito's remains were recovered.

She told "The San Francisco Chronicle" that she was actually kind of annoyed when she spotted this van late in August on an evening because it was moving very slowly down a narrow road, so she didn't know exactly what was going on.

We reached out to Jessica Schultz. She is not commenting to CNN. She declined to do so. And the FBI told CNN it would comment on the report as well, citing privacy reasons.

But, again, "San Francisco Chronicle" reporting that a woman is now saying that she saw Brian Laundrie, who went missing about a week ago, in Wyoming.

CAMEROTA: Amara Walker, thank you for the reporting.

OK, now to this. Pressure is mounting on the Biden administration to contain that migrant crisis, as nearly 8,000 migrants flood the Texas border.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:29:28]

BLACKWELL: Right, now in Del Rio, Texas, as nearly 8,000 migrants, most of them Haitian, are encamped at the border, CNN has learned that the Homeland Security Department is not sending all of them back to Haiti and their respective countries.

Instead, some are being released in the U.S. CNN has seen buses drop off migrants at a non-government organization and eventually taken to other parts of the country.

CAMEROTA: So, this latest episode has ignited fresh criticism of President Biden's immigration policies.

His homeland security secretary was in the hot seat at a House hearing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS, U.S. SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Oh, Congressman, let me share something with you quite clearly. I work 18 hours a day, OK?