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Tennessee Prioritizing Unvaccinated COVID Patients For Treatment?; Interview With Rep. Pramila Jayapal (D-WA); President Biden Pushes Agenda. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired September 22, 2021 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:01]

MATT EGAN, CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: And the Fed says inflation is elevated, but they think it will be temporary.

And the third big thing here is the Fed did send a signal to investors that they may begin to start to unwind some of these emergency stimulus moves. That's important, because these bond purchases have actually lifted the stock prices. They have lifted home prices.

But, all in all, investors seem to be taking all of this with stride. Right now, the market is still up significantly, no real concerns from Wall Street so far.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: So, Matt, tell us about this letter that these six former Treasury secretaries sent urgently to Congress, a warning, basically.

EGAN: Right. So this is about the debt ceiling.

And the message from these six former Treasury secretaries is be careful because you're playing with fire. They warn that, if you wait until the last minute to raise the debt ceiling, you risk an accidental default, which would be catastrophic for the economy.

They acknowledge that we're in divided times right now politically with debt. So, what would the actual default mean for the economy? Moody's Analytics put out a report. And they said that if there was a default and a prolonged impasse over resolving it, there could be nearly six million jobs that would disappear.

Unemployment rate would jump to 9 percent, almost. Payments would be delayed to Social Security recipients, to veterans, federal workers. The stock market would drop by a third; $15 trillion in household wealth would vanish, so bad.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Wow.

EGAN: All of this explains why everyone expects Congress to eventually do the right thing. No one wants to be held responsible for this.

But we should point out that, the longer they wait, the closer they get to the edge of the cliff, the greater the chance that they accidentally go over it. So we need to pay very close attention to this.

BLACKWELL: All right. Matt Egan, thank you.

EGAN: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Thanks so much.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CAMEROTA: OK, start of a brand-new hour. I'm Alisyn Camerota.

BLACKWELL: I'm Victor Blackwell.

Happening right now, this high-stakes meeting at the White House. Nearly all of the president's domestic agenda is on the line here. President Biden is talking with the major players from his party to bridge the gap between the progressives and the moderates. And if they don't come together, his two signature legislative agenda items, these bills will likely fail to reach his desk, including this trillion- dollar bipartisan infrastructure bill.

The other is the $3.5 trillion budget reconciliation plan, that social safety net we're talking about. Now, one top Democrat puts it this way: "I hope Biden is the secret sauce."

CAMEROTA: So, right now, the president is meeting with Senate Leader Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi. Here's an action shot of them arriving -- well, Nancy Pelosi, at the White House.

On top of that, the government is veering, as we just discussed, towards a government shutdown, . It would be a first in American history to default on its loans also, if the ceiling isn't raised, the debt ceiling.

The House just passed a bill to fund the government and raise the debt ceiling but now it needs Senate approval, and Republicans say they will not vote for raising the limit.

CNN national affairs correspondent, Jeff Zeleny, is at the White House. CNN chief congressional correspondent Manu Raju is also with us.

First, Jeff, what do we know about what's going on at these meetings?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: We do know that they're going to be a series of meetings.

Really, President Biden will be spending the rest of the afternoon, perhaps even into the early evening hours, holding three separate meetings. And as you said, he is meeting with congressional Democratic leaders right now, Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer.

And then he's going to be holding a meeting with a Senate and House progressives, as well as Senate and House moderates, meeting three separate times. And you may wonder, why have three separate meetings if he's trying to bring people together? And it's a good question, but it's a sign that these certainly are not the last meetings.

These are the meetings at the moment where the president is really trying to get the bottom line from the progressives and the moderates, if you will. He's not necessarily in the twisting arm phase. He's in the emboldening and listening phase.

But there is no question we cannot overstate the importance of this next week, maybe two weeks on the president's agenda, because how they have chosen to write these bills, they're really putting everything in one basket, if you will.

So if this does not pass, then his domestic agenda, at least for this year in the short term, is really in peril. But it is too, of course, early to get to that point, but so many things looming, potential government shutdown, the debt ceiling, but, most urgently, the reconciliation this big -- the economic package, that's why so many members of the House, as Manu knows, is coming here to the White House this afternoon.

BLACKWELL: So, Manu, let's talk about how far apart the parts of the party are.

We're not talking trim a billion here, change a few words there. There is a chasm between the moderates and the progressives.

[15:05:02]

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, no question about it, because it's not just the price tag, as you mentioned.

And the price tag differences are substantial; $3.5 trillion is what the progressives want, which is what the White House wants. But Joe Manchin, for one, other moderates want under $2 trillion.

And then there are significant divisions over the policy, the extent of the child tax credit that is being offered under here, how they're going to deal with universal pre-K, another issue that moderates want to pare back and allow means testing for people who may not, who should not be eligible for that benefit, and how to deal exactly with the expansion of Medicare to include dental, vision, hearing, and a whole host of other issues, like climate change, something that is significant and central to the progressives' push, saying, this bill, they want to be a bold, aggressive effort to try to combat global warming.

But contending with people like Senator Joe Manchin, who does represent a key state that has -- a key coal-producing state of West Virginia, and who has made clear that he will not go nearly as far as what the progressives want.

So the question is, can they get anywhere near a deal? Now, Joe Manchin, going into this meeting laughed when I asked him if he could get a deal by today. And I said, well, what about next week? And he said, "I don't think so," meaning that puts things in real question, because this is tied, as Jeff noted, to that separate effort on infrastructure, $1.2 trillion, that passed the Senate last month that would deal with roads, bridges, broadband.

Nancy Pelosi is moving forward at the moment for a vote on that on Monday in the House, but the progressives are warning that they will sink that infrastructure bill, if that larger economic package that they're negotiating has not passed by then.

And so there's no chance that it will pass by then, much less possibly not even get a deal by that. What will happen to that infrastructure deal? All those questions have to be answered by the leadership, by Joe Biden. Do they delay things? Do they urge one of these factions to cave? That is the question here.

And that's something -- these discussions will continue in the days ahead.

CAMEROTA: OK, Jeff Zeleny, Manu Raju, thank you both very much.

Our next guest is at the center of all of this action. She's the chair of the Progressive Caucus, and she is set to meet with President Biden today.

Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal spoke with Speaker Nancy Pelosi yesterday, telling her that progressives will vote against a bipartisan infrastructure deal, that $1.2 trillion deal, this Monday, unless than $3.5 trillion reconciliation plan comes with it or has already passed.

And Congresswoman Jayapal of Washington state joins me now.

Congresswoman, I know you're busy. Thank you very much for taking time to meet with us.

I know you're planning to meet with President Biden today. Is there anything that President Biden could say to you today to get you to first vote yes on that $1.2 trillion bipartisan infrastructure bill?

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): Well, Alisyn, it's always great to see you. And I'm really looking forward to meeting with the president. He left me a lovely message last night.

And I think that the issue here is that we are ready to vote for the entirety of the president's agenda. We are ready to support and deliver to his desk the entirety of the agenda that he laid out to Congress in the Build Back Better speech that he gave to us. And so we want to do that.

But the deal has always been and was -- and you just saw perhaps that 11 senators just released a letter clarifying this again for people -- the deal was that those senators voted for the infrastructure bill under the commitment that the two bills would move together in the House, that we would pass reconciliation, and then we would vote for the infrastructure bill.

That is our -- that has been our position for three months, but every month, we check with our members. And every month, they say, yes, this is too important to leave behind child care, paid leave, taking on climate change, housing, infrastructure, health care.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

JAYAPAL: All of these things will get left behind if we don't pass the two together.

CAMEROTA: Just out of curiosity, what did President Biden say to you in the nice message last night?

JAYAPAL: Well, he had just seen me on television, and he said I did a great job. And he wished me happy birthday, because it was -- yesterday was my birthday.

And he also just said he was hoping he could meet with me today. And so it was a real honor, of course, to receive that call, because -- and he thanked me for supporting -- all the support for his agenda. So I think this is -- I'm just looking forward to this conversation with him, because, obviously, this is about making sure the president's agenda passes.

And we are so excited to vote for both bills, not because my members think that the infrastructure bill is a great bill. Frankly, many of them don't, and they don't want to vote for it, but they understand we're all on a big team. And we need to pass both of these things.

CAMEROTA: Yes, I just want to be clear.

Are you saying that you are perfectly comfortable with letting that $1.2 trillion bipartisan infrastructure plan that brings with it tons of jobs and repairs our nation's roads and bridges, you're comfortable with letting that die if you don't get the other one attached to it?

[15:10:12]

JAYAPAL: Well, I think what I should -- what you should perhaps ask the other folks is whether they are comfortable letting child care, paid leave housing, health care die?

CAMEROTA: And I will.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: I will.

But are you comfortable with letting the $1.2 trillion infrastructure deal go?

(CROSSTALK)

JAYAPAL: But there's no reason to let it die.

My whole point has been, Monday the 27th is an arbitrary deadline. We are working on coming up with a pre-conference reconciliation bill, Build Back Better bill, that everybody can agree to. But we do need a little bit more time. And part of the reason we need a little bit more time is because some

senators who have said that they're -- they don't like the Build Back Better Act haven't told us anything about what they really want to cut out of that bill.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

JAYAPAL: So, we need more time to get this done. Monday is an arbitrary deadline. There is no reason to bring it up. It's just an attempt to pass one bill and leave behind the bill that has the majority of the president's agenda and, by the way, taxes the wealthiest in the country, including individuals and wealthiest corporations, in order to pay for all of this.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Yes.

JAYAPAL: So, let's get rid of the arbitrary deadline of Monday. And let's actually work on getting to a deal.

Progressives have been at the table, team players all the way through. We didn't stop the bipartisan bill coming out of the Senate. We didn't insist on our preference, which was one bill. We didn't even insist on our top-line number of $6 trillion. We came down to $3.5 trillion.

So we have been team players at getting this agenda done.

CAMEROTA: I mean, it sounds like you agree with even some of the moderate Democrats in the House, who basically are saying that they don't think that this $3.5 trillion deal is fully baked.

They just say that they don't -- they need to debate more the scope and the details of it. I mean, "The Washington Post" puts it this way, quickly.

Congress -- "Representative Stephanie Murphy, the leader of the moderate-leaning Blue Dog coalition, recently criticized duplicative spending, as well as potential unintended consequences that could come from the tax increases that fund it. Representative Scott Peters has sought to narrow Democrats' efforts reining in prescription drug costs. Some others have questioned whether it's fully financed."

So you're saying that there do need -- there does need to be more meat on the bone?

JAYAPAL: No. No, no, no.

That's -- what I'm saying is, the Senate has not told us -- has not been able to yet finalize this, so we have everybody on board. And we have already compromised to the $3.5 trillion. We have come up with all of the different priorities. The committees in the House already did the work.

We already passed through committees a significant number of things. There might be a few things left that still need to be worked out. Prescription drug pricing is very important. And I'm very disappointed that we haven't yet passed that through committee, when it was already passed by Democrats last Congress, and we need to rein in the price of prescription drugs.

So, yes, there are a couple things still on the table. But the reality is that Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema need to actually realize that they drafted the infrastructure bill without any input from any of us. Now we have drafted a reconciliation bill, and they need to come along.

We're all part of the Democratic team. And this is the president's agenda that we're delivering on.

CAMEROTA: But it does sound like, even in -- I mean, in the Democratic Caucus, you don't have the votes for the $3.5 trillion.

JAYAPAL: Oh, I really believe that we have done the work. And there are a few things left. I mean, there's still things I'm trying to get in and make sure that -- enter in. That always happens at the very end.

But it's -- we're very close on that.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: Just to be clear, like the Josh Gottheimers of the world, you think that you have everybody that you need in the House that will vote for that?

JAYAPAL: What they have said is they want a bill that will pass the Senate.

Obviously, we need all 50 members of the Senate to commit to that bill. I understand that everybody. Understands that. There are a couple of senators that have not committed to the bill yet. And so they need to get to work.

If they want the bipartisan infrastructure bill to pass, then they need to get to work and work with the leadership of the House, the Senate and the White House. And let's finalize this thing.

And remember that there are plenty of my members who don't like or want the infrastructure bill, the good, the bad, and the missing, as one of our leaders has said. And the reality is, there are some things in there that people really think are detrimental, not just not there, but detrimental.

But I have managed to get everybody to say that they will vote for that if the reconciliation bill contains enough of our priorities to deliver on the things we promised to the American people.

[15:15:00]

CAMEROTA: Can you just peel back the curtain a little bit and give us some color on how often are you all meeting about this? How often are you all talking and negotiating?

JAYAPAL: Well, within the Progressive caucus, we meet every week as an entire caucus. But we also are -- I'm talking constantly to our members. And we did a

very significant whip count just this week of our members to see where people were.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

JAYAPAL: And people are very clear on where they are.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: But I mean with everybody.

JAYAPAL: Oh, as a Democratic Caucus?

Well, the conversations don't really happen in that giant group, as you probably know. They happen in smaller groups. And so I talk to my conservative Democratic colleagues on the floor. In fact, I was just talking to one just before I came here. I'm talking to senators constantly.

So we're all talking to each other. It typically doesn't happen in a giant room.

CAMEROTA: Just today, the Chamber, the U.S. Chamber of Congress, has come out with a statement saying that they don't like the $3.5 trillion deal.

They say now the Biden administration wants to hit them again with massive tax increases. Oh, actually, I think that I have that sound. Let me play this for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NARRATOR: Now the Biden administration wants to hit them again with massive tax increases. These tax hikes would be a body blow to our economy, endangering our recovery and taking more hard-earned money from small businesses and working families.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: They think the tax increases will hurt small businesses. What do you say to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce?

JAYAPAL: What a shocker. The Chamber of Commerce, that represents the largest corporations in the country, some in the world, who have made the most money over the pandemic, created enormous numbers of billionaires, while leaving everybody else out, doesn't want to increase taxes on the largest corporations, so that they pay their fair share.

I'm not surprised. Are you?

CAMEROTA: Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal, we appreciate you coming on and we will certainly be watching what happens with your meeting today and beyond. Thanks for your time.

JAYAPAL: Thank you so much, Alisyn.

BLACKWELL: Tennessee says it will now prioritize unvaccinated people for a key COVID-19 drug shown to reduce hospitalizations and deaths. We will speak to a member of the governors COVID's Task Force next.

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[15:22:00]

BLACKWELL: Tennessee now ranks second in the nation for new COVID cases for 100,000 residents, averaging more than 3,000 per day. That's according to the White House.

State officials are now recommending that health care providers prioritize unvaccinated COVID patients for treatment in certain situations.

Joining me now is Dr. Sara Cross. She's an infectious disease specialist and a member of Tennessee Governor Bill Lee's COVID Task Force.

Thank you for being with me.

Let me start here with this decision prioritizing monoclonal antibody treatment for those who are unvaccinated. The state says that it's following NIH recommendations, that, except for those who are immunocompromised, that this should be reserved for those who are unvaccinated.

Do you think that's the right call for people who've chosen not to get the vaccine that they get this treatment?

DR. SARA CROSS, INFECTIOUS DISEASE SPECIALIST: Well, first, thanks so much for having me.

It's a very difficult situation. On one hand, we are saving lives potentially by giving the monoclonal antibody to the unvaccinated population, because they are certainly at the highest risk of dying.

On the other hand, we are basically rewarding them for choosing to not get vaccinated, prolonging this horrible pandemic, the worst public health crisis of our time. So it's such a difficult thing that health care professionals are going to unfortunately encounter. There is not an unlimited supply of monoclonal antibody right now.

At least the immunocompromised population should get this monoclonal antibody, according to the National Institutes of Health and also the state of Tennessee.

But I, as a physician, if I see a patient who has multiple comorbidities, even if they have been vaccinated, if I worry that they are at much increased risk of severe disease, I think I would give them monoclonal antibody. And if I didn't, I would not be able to live with myself.

And I think many of my colleagues feel the same way as I do. BLACKWELL: And there are some people who are so anti-vaccine or anti-

vaccine mandate in this case that they have become quite belligerent about it.

There's a store in Nashville with a sign there in Nashville, Tennessee that says, force a shot on us, we have got the video, speaking of a shot of the vaccine, we will force a shot on you. And you see the barrel of a gun facing back, if we wait for that video to show that portion of it.

I'd imagine it's difficult as a health professional, for people who have been fighting the vaccine, fighting this option, the best protection, to then reserve this lifesaving treatment for them.

CROSS: You know, it's been really difficult for physicians and health care staff on the front lines seeing unvaccinated patients come in and critically ill taking up an intensive care unit bed, taking up a ventilator, when it was largely preventable.

[15:25:14]

We have seen so many protests around the state of Tennessee. Only 44 percent of our population is vaccinated, which is one of the worst. We're one of the lowest states in the country. We're using a ton of monoclonal antibody, just like six other states in the South, because our vaccination rates are so low.

It is so frustrating. And I feel that this has been made a political issue from the beginning, instead of the health crisis that it is. And that really is the main issue we are facing. This is not a political issue. This virus kills -- it's killing people every day.

And I just wish that the people would listen to us, the health care professionals.

BLACKWELL: Speaking of the politics of this, I mentioned at the top that you're a member of Governor Bill Lee's COVID Task Force. And I know that you disagree with a lot of the decisions that the governor has made.

Are you on this task force just a lone voice out in the wilderness? Are there other detractors? And is the governor's office listening to you all who disagree with him?

CROSS: Good questions.

The governor's task force has not met since the summer of 2020. So it is very difficult to say if I am the lone voice. I have been speaking up recently because I'm very worried about the executive order that the governor issued allowing parents to opt out of the mask mandates in schools recently, a few weeks ago.

And I have continued to speak out because I feel that people in the state of Tennessee are being put in harm's way with some of these recommendations that have been made, and the fact that I feel that being against a vaccine mandate is even putting people in harm's way. So, am I the lone voice? I might be. I was appointed by Governor Lee

to the task force, but I may very well be the lone voice.

BLACKWELL: Well, listen, if you all haven't met in a year, is there still a task force? You may just be a task force on letterhead only.

Dr. Sara Cross, thank you so much for your time and insight.

CROSS: Thank you so much.

BLACKWELL: All right.

Well, the Gabby Petito case is highlighting how race and gender directly affect which missing persons cases receive the attention and which do not.

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