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U.S. on Verge of Default, Government Shutdown as Congress Bickers; U.S, Mexico Try to Ease Congestion Under Bridge in Del Rio, Texas; FDA Authorizes Pfizer Vaccine Boosters for 65 and Older. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired September 23, 2021 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:00]

ERICA HILL, CNN NEWSROOM: Top of the hour here, a good Thursday morning. I'm Erica Hill.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

Politicians in Washington, once again, playing with the deadline to raise the national debt limit. There is also a possible government shutdown on the horizon. The Office of Management and Budget is now instructing federal agencies in case to prepare for a possible default. Lawmakers have just seven days to prevent the government from running out of money.

HILL: Democrats are considering a party line vote to avoid a shutdown, this as President Biden works behind the scenes to keep his two-track budget and infrastructure strategy alive.

Democratic lawmakers now running out of patience as they remain divided on that price tag, $3.5 trillion for the spending bill. The White House says though it's par for the course.

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JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president's always been open to negotiations and discussions and knew that he was not going to be alone able to waive a magic wand and pass a proposal.

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SCIUTTO: CNN's Chief Congressional Correspondent Manu Raju joins us now from Capitol Hill.

And, Manu, I always ask you to handicap these things because you've seen a fair amount of drama up there and last-minute deals or failure to reach deals. I mean, where do Democrats stand right now? I mean, is it your sense that they're going to find some sort of compromise here to move forward?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's just really unclear at the moment, Jim. I mean, the big question right now on Capitol Hill is will Nancy Pelosi go forward with that Monday vote on this infrastructure package.

That package, of course, $1.2 trillion. That was approved last month by the Senate, 19 Republicans joining 50 Democrats, significant investment in roads and bridges, waterways and the like that has not gone to a final vote in the House yet because liberals have demanded the larger Democratic-only package move forward at the same time, that roughly $3.5 trillion to expand the social safety net, using a different process to approve that.

That needs to be approved by essentially straight party lines both in the House and also in the Senate. And with 50 Democrats in the Senate, that means they can't lose one. And the negotiations are still going on over that larger package. They are not close to getting an agreement among themselves on that.

So, the question for Nancy Pelosi heading into Monday is will she ultimately decide to delay that Monday vote. She has said that they're moving forward over concerns that progressives may sink that infrastructure bill as leverage to try to get the moderates in their party behind that larger package.

It's a very delicate situation for the speaker, who has insisted she'll go forward, and if she does, does delay it, that could cost her moderate support for that Democratic-only plan. So, she, Chuck Schumer, Joe Biden are discussing this. In fact, Biden last night at the White House was pressed by progressive Democrats to push back that Monday vote. They contended it was an arbitrary deadline, I am told. And then Biden said he would have further discussions with the leadership.

So we will hear from Pelosi later this hour about whether she has any plans to delay it, but that is just one issue. Then they have to worry about a potential financial catastrophe looming, dealing with a government shutdown that could occur next week, September 30th. They don't extend government funding. And also that debt default, first time ever, if they're not able to raise the debt ceiling by mid- October. And that is a fight between Republicans and Democrats on that and no resolution on those issues.

All this, guys, coming to a head at such a key moment for Biden and Biden's agenda, it could all come together but it could all most certainly collapse.

SCIUTTO: Manu, to be fair, we've been here before on the debt limit, get to the brink and then pull back. I mean, is there any real appetite among Democrats or Republicans to break it for the first time?

RAJU: There's no appetite but there's also no clear resolution yet. One option for Democrats is to try to move it on their own through the budget process. Now, that takes some time to move forward. That's a roughly two-week process. At least it opens them up to a flood of controversial amendment votes along the way, which is why the Democratic leadership wants to move through a separate process that would require 60 votes in the Senate, 50 Democrats, 10 Republicans. The Senate Republican leader, Mitch McConnell, is making it clear there will not be ten Republicans to do that. They say it's on the Democrats to take this politically toxic vote. The Democrats say the Republicans should own this given the debt that was piled up during the Trump administration.

So it's unclear what this process will look like, but I can tell you, guys, in talking to Democratic members, there is a real feeling they cannot let this default, they control government and that, ultimately, they may have to move it on their own even if they suffer political backlash.

[10:05:08]

HILL: Manu, I appreciate the excellent reporting, as always. Thank you.

New this morning, the U.S. special envoy to Haiti just resigned, a letter just a few hours ago resigning over the crisis at the border calling on the U.S. to move to deport Haitian migrants inhumane.

SCIUTTO: All this as CNN learns that officials have been sounding the alarm since June about the number of migrants specifically in Del Rio, Texas.

CNN Correspondent Matt Rivers, he joins us now from Ciudad Acuna, Mexico, that's right across the border from Del Rio.

And, Matt, what are you seeing there now? Is there still a flow towards the border?

MATT RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there are. And people continuing to cross this morning. We've seen it over the past few hours, not quite the numbers that we saw yesterday, but I can step out of the way and show you. You can see some people who are actually coming here from the Mexico side going back across to the U.S. They're following that guide rope that has basically been strung across both sides of the border.

And, as of now, they're being allowed to cross back and forth. If we can just kind of pan around and show you the other side, you can see other Haitian migrants who left from the Mexican side this morning going over to the U.S.

And you can also see all the law enforcement that are over there, everything from Department of Public Safety in Texas to border patrol officials, very much allowing this flow of people to go back and forth. They're not het letting them go into the country. When you get to the other side of the U.S., you would make a left and go up the river. That's where that encampment here, where thousands of Haitian migrants remain.

Essentially, what's happening here, Jim, and Erica, is that people have been using this crossing to come from the U.S. encampment back to the Mexican side because it's actually easier to get supplies here on the Mexican side. I'm talking about food, water, even diapers for little kids. And, as of now, this flow is being allowed to continue. Border patrol agents allowing people to go back and forth, we do expect that to happen throughout the day today.

What we are waiting to see here on the Mexican side is, are there going to be any enforcement actions taken. We know in and around Ciudad Acuna, Haitian migrants have been picked up as they try to leave this area. But so far in this park where people are being kept here on the Mexican side, the cops haven't come in yet. Immigration officials really haven't come in yet.

And so are they going to be allowed to stay here? We've seen a big police presence show up here on the Mexican side this morning. The question is, are the Mexicans going to stop people from coming back and forth, will border patrol on the other do the same thing? That's what we're going to wait and see happening today.

But as of now, if you want to cross from the U.S. to Mexico along that rope, you're allowed to, especially if you come back with supplies that are being essentially given out in that encampment on the U.S.

HILL: Matt Rivers with the latest for us, Matt, thank you. Keep us updated. As you said, he's going to be watching that throughout the day.

Joining us now to talk about all of this, Texas Democratic Congressman Henry Cuellar, he's a member of the Appropriations Committee. Sir, good to have you back with us this morning.

I want to start first on what we just learned -- thank you, this resignation from Daniel Foote, saying in his resignation, I will not be associated with the United States' inhumane, counterproductive decision to deport thousands of Haitian refugees. He calls the approach to Haiti deeply flawed and even warned that surging migration will only grow as we add to Haiti's unacceptable misery. Your reaction to this resignation that has impact, sir?

REP. HENRY CUELLAR (D-TX): Well, I can understand why he did that on principle, but I can also understand that at least what I understand, there's at least another 30,000 Haitians in Mexico right now. There's also another 30,000 in Colombia also. I understand there's about 15,000 Haitians in Panama. So, this surge of Haitians is not going to stop anytime soon.

Are they coming directly from Haiti? No. Are they flying in from Chile and Brazil and other countries? Yes. And, again, it's a very difficult situation. I've been telling the administration since the transition team since December 11th of last year that there are folks that are getting the impression that this border is going to be opened and they feel that they have an opportunity to come into the United States.

HILL: So, clearly, something is lost in the messaging there. You and I have actually talked about this since that in terms of the messaging. This requires more than just the U.S. You point out these tens of thousands of Haitian migrants that we know about in Latin America possibly making their way north, hoping to get to the border between Mexico and the U.S. In the wake of Vice President Harris' trip to Latin America, what do you think the impact has been? Has anything changed?

CUELLAR: With all due respect, no.

[10:10:00]

Look, you know, we've been providing assistance to Central America since 2014. I was involved with Kate Ranger (ph), and then at that time, Vice President Joe Biden to provide the first $750 million to the Central American countries. I think since then it's been over $3.5 billion that we've appropriated. And, again, it's the assistance, but we've got to work with the private sector to create jobs down there in Central America.

Look, we're focusing right now on what's happening in the real sector, but down in the lower Rio Grande Valley, we still have people from Central America coming. If you look at the sector of Del Rio, they've had over 200,000 encounters. When you look at the lower Rio Grande Valley, you've had over half a million encounters.

So, those numbers are huge numbers. And again, you know, keep in mind that we're only looking at what's happened here at the U.S. border. But I gave you some numbers of what the numbers of Haitians and other folks who are in Panama, Colombia, Mexico, and this is going to go on for a while.

HILL: You know, as we look at what is happening, focusing specifically on what we're seeing this week, because there is so much interest in what's happening at the border there, I'm sure you heard the reaction from your colleague, Maxine Waters. I just want to play that for the folks at home in reaction to some of the video that came out of the border earlier this week. Take a listen.

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REP. MAXINE WATERS (D-CA): I'm unhappy and I'm not just unhappy with the cowboys who were running down Haitians and using their reins to whip them, I'm unhappy with the administration. Cowboys with their reins, again, whipping black people, Haitians, into the water where they're scrambling and falling down. And all they're trying to do is escape from violence in their country.

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HILL: Now, CNN is reporting -- I do want to point out that the officers were not whipping them, that they were twirling their reins to perhaps threaten, move some of the migrants along. Is that appropriate?

CUELLAR: Well, you know, again, as you know, there is an investigation as to some of the actions that some of the border patrol folks have taken. I certainly have to say this, that I know a lot of border patrol agents, I see them in my church, the kids go to school, they're good folks. But they'll investigate this. We cannot paint everybody the same brush. They were not using whips, they were certainly not using lassos. The horse brigades have been there for a long time. We don't know what the context was, were they running, were they told not to run? And we don't know what the context is until we find out. And I don't want to condemn anybody without knowing what the facts are or what the investigation is going to lead in. We certainly want to treat everybody with respect, certainly want to treat everybody with respect.

But, look, bottom line is this, if there's an assassination in Haiti, is that a reason to come in under asylum? No. If there's an earthquake in Haiti, is that a reason to come into the United States under the asylum? No. If there is violence in Central America and other places, does that qualify for asylum? No. Look, we've got to look at what President Obama and Secretary Jeh Johnson, they treated the immigrants with respect and dignity. But at the same time, they enforced the law. What the law says is if you get to stay under the asylum law, you stay. But if you don't, then we, unfortunately, have to send you back. That's what the law calls until we change the asylum law.

HILL: We know we could talk about -- there's so much to talk about immigration. I do though want to just get your take on what we are seeing in Washington, what's playing out. You know President Biden holding meetings yesterday. You've expressed some concern about the overall number of this reconciliation plan. At the same time, President Biden pushing moderates for a number. He couldn't get a number.

Are you aware of a number that they would be comfortable with? Is there a number you're comfortable with?

CUELLAR: Everybody seems to be focused on a number. The way I want to see this is let's look at this remaking of the safety net that we are actually doing, remaking of the safety net, and look at the programs. I support health care, I support education, I support a clean environment, I support all that. So, you know, some people came up with a $3.5 trillion. I was not in the room when that was agreed on. I want to look at what are the programs that we need to look at, what are the programs that we can support, how do we remake the safety net for the American people for the ones that truly need help. And I think that's what we need to look at.

But I understand there is a gap between the progressives and the moderates. We need to fill that because we're all Democrats. And I feel we are going to get there eventually.

[10:15:00]

HILL: So you think you're going to get there. We will be watching to see what happens. I appreciate your time, Congressman. Thank you.

CUELLAR: Thank you so much.

HILL: Dive teams back at a Florida swamp, a Florida nature reserve looking for Brian Laundrie. This as there are new details about an argument that was witnessed in the final days before Gabby Petito was killed.

SCIUTTO: And the FDA says Pfizer vaccine shots are now okay for people aged 65 and older. Will the CDC agree? That's next.

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[10:20:00]

HILL: We have concern building among -- growing among experts about COVID infections as we head into those winter months. Remember what happened last year, and, of course, the worry of a COVID/flu twindemic this year, as for people drop COVID precautions. Some Americans, we're learning, can soon get that extra boost, a third dose of Pfizer, the FDA signing off on Pfizer vaccine booster shots for those 65 and older as well as adults at high risk of severe disease and adults whose jobs may put them at risk of infection, including health care workers.

SCIUTTO: The CDC director still needs to sign off once a panel adviser weighs in today before those booster shots can start being administered. Let's bring in now to discuss, Dr. Cynthia Whitener, she is Chief of Infectious Disease at Penn State Health's Milton Hershey Medical Center. Doctor, good to have you on this morning.

I wonder if the FDA is getting it right on boosters, that not for everybody now, just focus on older folks, folks with pre-existing conditions that make them more vulnerable, plus health care workers. Is that where we should be?

DR. CYNTHIA WHITENER, CHIEF OF INFECTIOUS DISEASES DIVISION, PENN STATE HEALTH MILTON S. HERSHEY MEDICAL CENTER: I think based on the available data, and that is what they need to go by when making these decisions, I think they did get it right. And it's really not just health care workers that they're talking about when they say adults who have three points exposure but it includes people in institutions such as jails or homeless shelters, and it includes frontline workers, such as -- people who work in daycare, schools, et cetera. So, it's really a little more broad than just health care workers for that third category.

HILL: Which is helpful too, I think, for a lot of those people. And also interesting, right, given the day that we have, a lot of those folks were, of course, in the initial categories of people who got the vaccine first. So, it also makes sense in terms of the timeline for them.

WHITENER: Yes. There are some small studies that suggest that immunity slowly mild to moderately wanes after vaccine and that the people who were vaccinated earliest have lost a bit of protection. Now, that's mainly been against milder disease. People still seem to be primarily protected, very well protected against more serious disease, including the risk for hospitalization or dying, but as immunity wanes, that risk, at least in theory, could increase as well.

SCIUTTO: Interesting point of view this morning from the former commissioner of the FDA, Scott Gottlieb, on CNN. He said this morning he thinks the delta wave might be the last major wave of infection the country faces. I want to play his point of view and see whether you agree with him. Have a listen.

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DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB, FORMER FDA COMMISSIONER: This becomes a more persistent endemic risk, so you continue to have coronavirus spread but not at the same rates we're seeing right now. And it settles in to a pattern, more of a seasonal pattern and basically becomes a second flu, probably more pathogenic than the flu, but something on par with the flu.

The challenge is that we already have a flu. And if we have COVID circulating alongside flu, the cumulative death and disease caused by those two pathogens is going to be too much for society to bear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Do you share his view of the direction of this right now?

WHITENER: I think it depends on how much of a world we can get vaccinated and it depends -- if we cannot do that relatively quickly, again, a large amount of the world vaccinated, I think we are at risk of more significant variants coming into play. And so, short of that occurring, then, yes, I think that we will eventually be living with influenza and COVID together and consistently trying to sort through whether people have one or both when they get these types of flu-like symptoms.

SCIUTTO: It's an interesting question. It would be hard for doctors to handle. Dr. Cynthia Whitener, thanks so much for joining us this morning.

WHITENER: My pleasure. Thank you.

HILL: After months and months of talks, it appears a bipartisan deal on police reform is dead. That does not mean, however, the issue is off the table. What could the next move be, that's after the break.

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[10:25:00]

HILL: Democrats vowing to keep pushing to reform America's policing laws after months of bipartisan negotiations officially ended with no deal. This despite months of protests demanding police reform, lawmakers though fell short of an agreement that could pass the 60- vote threshold in the Senate, failing to compromise on key issues, such as qualified immunity, which protects police officers from being sued in civil court.

SCIUTTO: Senator Cory Booker says they need to find another way to get something done.

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SEN. CORY BOOKER (D-NJ): I believe fundamentally we have to have transparency in policing. We have to have accountability when police do awful things.

[10:30:01]

There should be consequences. And, God, we must have higher professional standards. We weren't there. It's clear we weren't there.