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Now, CDC Advisers Meeting to Debate Pfizer Vaccine Booster Shots; U.S on the Verge of Default, Government Shutdown as Congress Bickers; DHS Temporarily Suspends Use of Horse Patrol in Del Rio. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired September 23, 2021 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JOHN KING, CNN NEWSROOM: Don't go anywhere. Ana Cabrera picks up coverage right now.

ANA CABRERA, CNN NEWSROOM: Thanks so much for joining us. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

Right now, a critical CDC meeting is back under way, and on the table today, who should get Pfizer's vaccine booster, and how soon? The FDA overnight with a game-changing decision now authorizing a third Pfizer shot for adults 65-plus, and those at high risk of severe illness from COVID or at higher risk because of their job. So, boosters soon to be part of the pandemic playbook.

Sticking with the sports analogy here, offense wins games, defense wins championships, and right now America's offense is strong. Hospitalizations are dropping, but defense is dragging, the pace of vaccinations now down 35 percent from earlier this month.

So, where does all this leave us? Let's begin with CNN Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Sanjay, let's just start with what's happening right now, the CDC meeting under way. What happens today and then what's next?

GUPTA: Well, we know that the vaccine, these boosters have been authorized, emergency use authorized by the FDA. Now the CDC has to officially recommend them, make them part of the vaccine schedule. Anyone who has kids knows about vaccine schedules and this would become part of the schedule as well, and some specifics as well, Ana. You talk about people who are at high risk for severe COVID but that could be a vague term to some people. What does that mean exactly? What are the conditions? So, who all specifically will this booster be recommended for?

Now, one thing I'll just tell you, Ana, in terms of the timing, if you go back six months ago from now, because they are saying these boosters will be for people six months out, six months ago back in March, there was about 22 million people roughly, 23 million people who had received the Pfizer vaccine in the United States.

So, you know, we don't know that all of them will necessarily come under these umbrella groups of who should receive a booster but you start to get an idea of how many people may be showing up for boosters right away. It's going to be a lot of people.

CABRERA: Let's more about who this impacts this initial decision, at least. The FDA has authorized the Pfizer vaccine booster for people 65 and older, people at high risk of severe disease and people whose jobs put them at a high risk of infection, and that could include health care workers, teachers, day care staff, grocery workers, those who are in homeless shelters or prison.

But going back to the high risk of severe disease, how is that group from different immunocompromised people who are already allowed to get that third dose?

GUPTA: Yes. Well, I mean, some of that is like very specific, so people who have had weakened immune systems because of, for example, a transplant recipient would be sort of the clearest example, someone who takes medications to suppress their immune suppress so they don't reject their organ transplant, people who have received and chemotherapy for cancer. Oftentimes, that will weaken your immune as well.

So there're very clear, some definitions of who is immunecompromised and there can be overlap, to your point, Ana, with people who are also vulnerable, but that could be for different reasons, someone who is type 2 diabetic, for example, someone who has with cardiac issues, not necessarily immunecompromised but is vulnerable to becoming very sick if they were to contract COVID.

So, you know, when you look back and you say, okay, the vast majority of people who are hospitalized with COVID are unvaccinated, but of the 5 percent or so who are vaccinated and hospitalized, who are they, that's what they are going to define specifically. They are the most vulnerable.

CABRERA: Okay. And, obviously, this has been an ongoing discussion for some time. There was initially the September 20th date that was set for the boosters to be going into people's arms. That has come and passed. So, how soon until shots are actually being administered?

GUPTA: Well, I think it could be very soon, Ana. Even if you go back and you look at when the vaccines were initially authorized, people started to be able to get shots quickly. And at that point in the pandemic, there was a greater supply issue. There was more demand than supply. Right now, it's sort of an opposite problem. There's plenty of vaccine doses available.

So, to answer your question directly, if the CDC officially recommends this, the CDC director signs off on this today, Thursday, potentially by tomorrow or over the weekend or by Monday, people could start getting those boosters.

CABRERA: Okay. Let's move on to some news that we've learned about women who are pregnant and the vaccine because there are a lot of myths surrounding this issue. We've busted a few of them on this show before. But today, there's more promising news from a small study out of NYU. What did it find? GUPTA: This found something that we have sort of been keeping an eye on for a while, Ana, and it's very interesting. Women who have antibodies during pregnancy, especially the second half of pregnancy, so let's say you get vaccinated during the second half pregnancy, we know that that does a good job based on all the data of protecting the pregnant mom.

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What this data is showing -- this was a small study, but, again, it's part of many studies showing that those antibodies can also cross over into the fetus and provide immunity for the fetus, at least provide some antibodies for the fetus, so by the time they are born, they may have protection.

Obviously, there's no vaccine available for a young baby like that right now so it's a potential opportunity for the vaccine to protect not only pregnant mom but also baby as well.

CABRERA: That is huge news, I would think, especially as a mom myself. If I were pregnant right now, I'd be so excited to hear that information.

Let's just -- discussing big picture here, Sanjay, as we look at where we are in this fight in the pandemic overall, former FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb was on our air this essentially saying that after this delta wave, the U.S. is likely done with big waves. Let's listen.

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DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB, FORMER FDA COMMISSIONER: This delta wave may be the last major wave of infection assuming that nothing unexpected happens.

This becomes a more persistent endemic risk, so you continue to have coronavirus spread but not at the same rates we're seeing right now. And it settles into a pattern, more of a seasonal pattern and basically becomes a second flu.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: First, do you agree, and, second, if it becomes like a second flu, what does that really mean?

GUPTA: Yes. I mean, it's really just tough to make predictions, Ana. I think we're all humble. I've talked to Scott since that as well and he even couched it this morning. He said, may be the last big wave, which is true.

Let me show you. I mean, I think part of this is based on modeling data. And if you even go back and look at H1N1. The big concern is we're going into a season where respiratory viruses spread more, right? I mean, that's cooler and dryer weather is always going to be the case. But if you go back and look in 2009, the last big wave there, that was the last big pandemic, it was sort of around this time of year and then it sort of flattened out after that. So there wasn't a big sort of winter surge.

If you go back even further and look at another pandemic, 1918, 1919, that was sort of characteristically four waves but sort same thing. There was another wave sort of in the early part of the following year, you know, February into March a little bit. But the big wave, as Scott mentioned, was sort of this time of year as well.

So if you look at models and you look at history, one can make the argument that this should be the last big wave. We'll see if there's any other variants out there that are of concern. We'll see how much of an impact on overall immunity, you know, vaccines make, more people get vaccinated. But, I mean, if you look at the models, it's potentially good news.

CABRERA: There's reason to be hopeful. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, it's so nice to see you. Thank you for taking the time.

To Florida now and the debate over COVID protocols in schools just keeps heating up. That state revisiting a rule on quarantines, now saying parents can send their kids who may have been exposed to COVID- 19 but don't have any symptoms back to school. One school district in North Carolina tried this but then backtracked.

CNN's Nick Valencia is in Palm Beach with reaction to this new move and the big fight over masks still taking place. Nick, fill us in.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, Ana. Anti-maskers packed out yesterday at a school board meeting here at Palm Beach County School District upset over the no opt-out mask mandate, a mandate that is in place despite Governor DeSantis' ban on masks in schools. And as you could see, some parents who showed up here last night couldn't contain their outrage.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERT ROSETTO, PARENT AGAINST MASK MANDATE: Today was my son's last day in public school with the School District of Palm Beach County. And I couldn't be happier.

VALENCIA (voice over): Upset parents confronted the Palm Beach County school board Wednesday night over the district's mask mandate. A crowd of parents, some who sat for hours to be heard, blasted the school board for defying Florida's Republican governor with a no op-out mask mandate and instituting scientifically proven COVID mitigation protocols. No one spoke in favor of masking and some who did speak couldn't contain their anger.

SANDY SULLIVAN, PARENT AGAINST MASK MANDATE: You need to step up and shine your own (BLEEP) light. This is ridiculous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turn off the microphone. Watch the language, ma'am.

VALENCIA: DeSantis issued an executive order earlier this year blocking mask mandates in schools. That order was upheld in a federal court earlier this month. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir, may I have more clarification? May I speak with you, I have more questions.

VALENCIA: At least two people were escorted out for disrupting the meeting, including this woman who says the decision of masking students should be left up to parents.

Do you worry at all that your child might get the virus, that not wearing a mask might spread the virus?

SULLIVAN: I feel that from what I can gather that if they did catch the virus, it's not so bad in children.

VALENCIA: According to the American Academy of Pediatrics, nationwide, there were nearly 226,000 new cases of COVID-19 reported among children during the week that ended September 16th.

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Public health officials warn COVID-19 cases could continue to rise now that so many schools have returned to in-person learning.

About 30 police officers were on hand at the meeting, which included comments from some small children in the district eager to return to normal.

EVA SILVESTRI, STUDENT: It's just ridiculous that we shouldn't have to wear if we don't want to. You are all not my parents and you shouldn't be the ones making my health decisions. Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VALENCIA (on camera): And it was last night that The Palm Beach County School Board voted to adopt a new surgeon general's policy about a symptom-based approach to quarantining, meaning that even if a student is exposed to somebody who is positive for the coronavirus, that they don't have to quarantine if they are not showing any symptoms. One of those that disagreed with the decision on the school board who is a medical doctor said that she disagreed with the surgeon general calling it bad public health. Ana?

CABRERA: So eye-opening to go inside that school board meeting. Thank you so much, Nick Valencia.

Now, cooler heads have apparently prevailed, or have they? After days of party infighting, top Democrats are touting an agreement, but the devil is in the details. Is the Biden agenda back on track?

Plus, what appears to be a funeral home ad is encouraging people not to get vaccinated. The company behind this ad, this billboard, joins us live.

And a career U.S. diplomat quits over the treatment of Haitian immigrants at the border.

You're live in the CNN Newsroom. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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CABRERA: Herding cats on Capitol Hill. Welcome to President Biden's nightmare. Lawmakers now have just one week to reach a deal to fund the government and prevent a shutdown that could push the nation closer to an economic crisis.

And that's really just the beginning of it all. The president's problems are coming from within his own party. Moderate Democrats say they won't accept the $3.5 trillion spending bill. Progressive Democrats say they won't back his infrastructure deal with Republicans.

Now, the president scrambling to unite his party and salvage his economic agenda, but a short time ago a potential break, Democrats announcing they have managed to find at least one area of agreement.

Let's bring in CNN's Manu Raju on Capitol Hill. So, Manu, how big of a deal is this? Tell us about this new development.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There are a lot of questions here, Ana. There is an agreement, as what Chuck Schumer said, an agreement -- they have reached an agreement on a framework that will pay for a negotiated agreement. So what does that exactly mean has been the question that we've been asking over the last hour or so since Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi and Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen said they have signed off on this.

So, what they are talking about here is how to pay for this massive expansion of the social safety net, raising taxes, namely on corporations, and high-earning individuals. They -- there's an agreement among the leadership in the House and Senate on the Democratic side as well as a key chairman of the tax-writing committees and the administration about how they would ultimately want to finance this plan.

Now, this is the catch. They need to actually sell this to moderate Democrats, to progressive Democrats and all the Democrats who have to cast some of the key votes and then make some decisions, including what else to include in this major plan and exactly all the details that come with that, and none of that is there yet.

And one of the big questions too is the price tag. I asked Pelosi directly in her press conference earlier whether they had an agreement yet and she made clear there isn't one on how much it will cost.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Have you settled on an overall price tag?

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): No, no. We didn't talk about that. This is got a price tag. This is about what's in the bill, what's in the bill for children, what's in the bill, universal pre-K, child care, child tax credit, family medical leave for their families, protecting the planet for them. It's about specific legislation. How much does that cost? How do we pay for it?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And, Ana, this is why this is are urgent for the Democrats is that they have set a vote for Monday on that separate infrastructure plan that passed the Senate last month. But the progressives in the House are threatening to sink that unless the larger bill is completed by then. And the question is can they even get an agreement by themselves within the Democratic Caucus by Monday, still uncertain as they try to sell their members on this. Ana?

CABRERA: It's becoming a nail biter. Manu, thank you.

I want to bring in someone who knows the president well. He is Biden's biographer, the author of Joe Biden, the Life, the Run and What Matters Now. Evan Osnos is also a CNN Contributor and Staff Writer for The New Yorker. Evan, thank you for taking the time right now.

The problem now lies within the president's own party, right? He needs every one of them essentially on board with this plan, and he has spent hours in meetings with both progressives and moderates. We're told that it seemed to lower the temperature, maybe some progress but really no overarching deal. So what's Biden's next move?

EVAN OSNOS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: You know. He is trying in his own way, Ana, to figure out how to show respect to both sides of this very diverse party, recognize that they have real issues, some of them are fundamental to their districts, some of them also get to the larger question of what does the Democratic Party stand for, and he's trying to do it without making it feel as if he is citing a name (ph).

This is not easy stuff. But also, Ana, after all, this is sort of what he has always sold as his skill. This is the thing he worked on for decades in the Senate. And you're seeing him deploy this in this kind of meeting after meeting, five hours of them yesterday and there will be more in the days to come.

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CABRERA: Who do you think President Biden has more of an allegiance to, progressives or moderates in these negotiations?

OSNOS: Well, the interesting thing is, of course, for much of his career, he was kind of a moderate figure. And yet he finds himself in a moment now where the things that progressives are pushing for are exactly the things he has been touting. I mean, this is, after all, Biden's bill, $3.5 trillion bill, that encompasses all of these enormously important, and from his perspective, urgent issues.

But, temperamentally, he's also on a very sort of close, in some ways, to a Joe Manchin, somebody who operates close to Republicans. So, that can be a skill. It also makes it harder for him because he has to decide, in effect, what specifically is he willing to take out of this bill. And that's the message you were hearing coming out of those meetings yesterday. He's pressing people to say what it is that you can live with and what you can't live with. CABRERA: And coming to a conclusion, some kind of solution have got to be incredibly important for him, because, as you point out, the president sold himself to the American people as a master negotiator who would bring about unity. He also made all these promises to working class Americans, which he's trying to accomplish with this $3.5 trillion package. But even his smaller infrastructure package is wobbling. The country is facing the threat of a government shutdown, potentially defaulting on its debt. For Biden, his agenda and his reputation are all on the line. What is at stake if you were to just boil it down?

OSNOS: Well, I mean, look, the midterms are coming up not too far away and then, after all, he has got the question of re-election and legacy. But you know what the good news here, this is encouraging. It's actually that the thing they are fighting over right now is popular. If you look around the country, surveys tell us, thanks to Data for Progress, Axios highlighted it this morning, that even in places like West Virginia and Arizona, where you have senators who are holding back, these bills are, in fact, popular. So they have to figure out how to get the negotiations done, but it's not as if they are trying to pass something that the American public doesn't want. That makes it a little bit easier.

CABRERA: Evan Osnos, great to have you here. Thank you so much. And I want to make sure to mention your new book, Wildland, the Making of America's Fury. Talk to you soon.

OSNOS: Thanks, Ana, I appreciate it.

CABRERA: Still ahead, it is hard to forget these images of border patrol agents mounted on horseback chasing Haitian migrants at the border. And now outrage has led to action to end this practice.

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CABRERA: Horses are right now no longer being used by border patrol agents in Del Rio, Texas. The Department of Homeland Security suspending the practice amid growing outrage over these images, agents on horseback aggressively confronting migrants, women and children running scared. Right now more than 5,000 migrants, mostly Haitian, still camped out under a bridge.

CNN's Josh Campbell is live in Del Rio, Texas. Josh, what more can you tell us about where processing stands right now and this decision to pull horse patrol?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. You know, those images of those agents on horseback obviously causing a lot of controversy there where you see these horses aggressively confronting the migrants. At one point one, of the migrants actually appeared to fall back into the water, in another video, you saw an agent disparaging one of the migrants. That leading the Department of Homeland Security to not only investigate that incident but we're also told, as you mentioned, the DHS is now suspending temporarily the use of horse patrol here in Del Rio, as that remains under investigation.

As far as the processing, Ana, we've seen the buses coming and going, these caravans of buses as migrants have been loaded on to them from this bridge, taken to processing centers. I want to take you live now to our live shot over at the bridge over this hour. You can see one of the buses there beginning to be loaded up.

As that continues, we're told that authorities have thousands that they still have to contend with. There were about 35,000 that were there. We've seen some protesters show up as well here as well talking about different sides.

But bottom line here, we're continuing to see processing continue as they move migrants up and down the different areas. Of course, there's been some controversy here about the expulsion of certain migrants. Initially, the Biden administration has said that people would be quickly expelled. Now we're hearing that some are being allowed to go through the process and we expect that to continue in the days to come.

CABRERA: Josh, we are learning the agents there on the ground where you are expressed their concern months ago about their ability to handle this kind of crisis. What else do we know?

JOSH: Yes, that's right. We're learning from our colleagues at CNN Washington that, as far back as June, some of the august here on the ground at the border had actually expressed a concern to their bosses that they needed more resources. That's because in June, they began to see an uptick in the number of migrants coming across. In one instance, they actually requested something as simple as an iPad in order to try to process migrants quickly. We're told they didn't get those resources. That was why we saw that concern. Ana?

CABRERA: Great reporting, Josh, and especially dealing with some of those distractions where you are right now, with those protesters who just showed up.

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Appreciate you, thank you, Josh.