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Older, High-Risk Americans Can Now Get Pfizer Vaccine Boosters; January 6 Committee Subpoenas Four Trump Insiders; Del Rio Migrant Camp Under Texas Bridge Now Cleared. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired September 24, 2021 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

ANA CABRERA, CNN NEWSROOM: Hello. Happy Friday. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

It's a huge day in the fight against COVID. Right now, Pfizer booster shots can go into tens of millions of arms. The third dose now available at 80,000 locations across the country for people six months past their second dose and who meet this criteria.

65 and older or have an underlying medical condition, like diabetes or obesity, have increased risk of exposure to COVID, like those living in long-term care facilities, or frontline workers, like doctors and teachers.

That last bullet at center of an unusual move by the CDC director. Dr. Walensky right now holding a COVID briefing defending her decision to go against an advisory panel's controversial vote to not include frontline workers in its booster recommendation.

President Biden this morning backed the CDC director's decision and urged Americans who can to go get boosted now.

Let's get right to the White House. Jeff Zeleny is there. And, Jeff, the plans for the president to speak today came rather last minute, it seemed.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: It did, Ana, of course, the president reacting to that overnight decision from the CDC. This is something the White House, in fact, has been awaiting for quite some time. They, of course, thought this week was the week on the calendar that all Americans would receive booster shots. That, of course, did not happen because of the series of recommendations that started last week with the FDA panel and then overnight with the CDC. But now they are focusing on those 65 years and older, as you said, as well as others who are particularly immunocompromised.

But we just came from a briefing with the CDC director, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, who noted that America cannot boost its way out of this pandemic fight, meaning that the unvaccinated still are at the center of the focus from the U.S. government trying to turn the corner on this fight against COVID-19. And President Biden also made that message very clear earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: Three-quarters of the eligible have gotten at least one shot, but one-quarter has not gotten any. In a country as large as ours, that 25 percent minority can cause an awful lot of damage.

Refusing to get vaccinated has caused all of this. I'm moving forward vaccination requirements wherever I can.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So, the president and the CDC, of course, talking about boosters, but, again, the central message is people who have not received any vaccinations. The government and others urging them to do so.

Now, this is all coming, of course, as, you know, as fall begins here at the White House, as the Biden administration agenda has hit a stalemate, in the words of the president, also talk about his approval rating and his standing. We saw the president this morning taking questions for the first time in more than a week here and talking about, you know, acknowledging that things are stalled, acknowledging the frustration among Americans. And that is clearly reflected in a series of polls out over the last week, including today.

His approval rating has fallen to below 50 percent. An average of polls, we call it the CNN poll of polls, an average of the five most recent polls shows him at 45 percent approval rating, largely because of the standing, because of the fight against COVID-19 simply has not turned a corner, in that, of course, his domestic agenda also on the ropes here.

But the president urged patience and calm, talking about boosters, but, still, Ana, the central message, if you've not gotten vaccinated, get your shot. That was the president's message today.

CABRERA: It's like we take two steps forward, one step back and the pandemic obviously impacting every American life. Thank you so much, Jeff Zeleny. We appreciate it.

Let's bring in our medical experts now to talk about these Pfizer boosters that are now available, and Dr. Walensky's decision. Joining us is, Dr. Jeremy Faust, Emergency Physician at Brigham and Women's, and Dr. Saju Matthew, Primary Care Physician and Public Health Specialist. Gentlemen, thank for being with us. Thank you for your continued and all that you do.

Dr. Walensky is defending this decision to approve boosters to a wider group than what was recommended by the CDC advisory panel. Dr. Matthew, you believe she made the right call. Why? DR. SAJU MATTHEW, PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIAN: Yes, I do, Ana, and hi, Dr. Faust. I definitely think that she made the right decision. Listen, it gives us latitude. It gives us a little bit of wiggle room for health care providers to decide whether if they need to get that booster shot.

Listen, already, 2 million people have gotten the booster shots and you don't want people to have to lie about their status to get a booster shot.

Let's also not forget that 30 percent of health care providers remain unvaccinated. So, even if you're vaccinated, your team might not be vaccinated. Also we don't live by ourselves. After work, we may go home to our families.

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And if you have breakthrough infection, there's an increase risk that you might actually transmit that virus to your grandmother or to children that are unvaccinated.

And, lastly, Ana, I definitely think that we should look at this virus. It's not just a health threat but also a safety and occupational threat as well. I do realize the problem is still with the unvaccinated but Dr. Walensky made the right decision by giving us that leverage based on our risk to get a booster shot.

CABRERA: Dr. Faust, I know you're more in line with the advisers who voted against expanding boosters to those whose jobs might put them at increased risk of exposure, including teachers and even health care workers like yourself. Why do you think that group shouldn't have been included? Is this not a better safe than sorry situation?

DR. JEREMY FAUST, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN, BRIGHAM AND WOMEN'S HOSPITAL: Thanks for having me, Ana. And the reason that I disagree with the totality of this decision, although I agree with parts of it, is that they just don't reflect CDC's own data on those questions, and that's where I want to follow the case.

We know, for example, from data from the CDC in the New England Journal yesterday that health care workers are doing great with this vaccine after two doses. This campaign presents a false sense of insecurity about that. And so the recommendation is that the health care workers may get boosted but not should. If it was should, it would be because we're worried about spreading to our patients. That's not the concern. Our most concern is about the high-risk people and those people over 65 are going to be boosted in many cases.

In terms of the may, honestly, we need to reassure people that the data show that severe illness in health care workers, especially under 50, really hasn't played out. I'm really confident in how the vaccines are doing. And so I think that making this a risk/benefit analysis is a little bit premature because we don't know the risks and benefits yet.

CABRERA: You both are on my show because you both have so much expertise, you're well-read, you're well-experienced and yet you have different opinions. That's what we're seeing about this booster issue across the medical community.

Dr. Matthew, what kind of impact do you think this division of sorts between medical experts is having on public health right now?

MATTHEW: Well, I think that's a big issue, right? We don't have one unified voice that actually makes a recommendation where people believe it. I am trying my best as a primary care physician seeing 17 or 18 patients a day, but, you know, also as Dr. Faust mentioned, yes, we do have data, but we don't really very perfect data, not in the U.S. We're relying on data from Israel.

And I also think that we are severely undercounting breakthrough infections. On an average week at work, I'm seeing seven to eight breakthrough infections. So, yes this, vaccine works well, and if you're young and healthy, you probably will not have severe disease or go into a hospital but we don't live in a bubble and this delta variant is way more contagious than the original strain.

I still think Dr. Walensky's decision makes us -- as health care providers, it gives us that opportunity based on our health risk. A nurse practitioner working in an urgent care, her risk is not the same as an ICU nurse or an E.R. doctor or a family physician like me.

So, I still think we need a unified voice, but this was the right decision.

CABRERA: Dr. Faust, forget the booster debate, there are still people who work in health care who haven't gotten a shot. For example, in the state of New York, where I am, the data shows about 70,000 health care workers are not yet fully vaccinated in this state that. That number to me is stunning. Does it surprise you?

FAUST: It disappoints me because, as Dr. Matthew said, that's the way out of this, is to vaccinate the unvaccinated. And to bring it back to boosters it turns out that a lot of people who are not yet vaccinated at all have said in studies, in surveys, that they would be turned off by the idea of having to have a third dose. This makes them feel less confident. So we're alienating the very people who are at the center of the crisis, the unvaccinated, by trying to get a little marginal benefit out of the people who already have been vaccinated and among whom we already know where the risk resides.

The data from Israel do show us that, and they explicitly do not show us that in young people both with efficacy, effectiveness and with safety. Nobody can tell you the safety for this third dose for people 18 to 40 where the largest risk resides because the numbers haven't been added up yet, and the CDC was very transparent with that during deliberation yesterday, and, unfortunately, the conclusion did not reflect that.

CABRERA: Dr. Faust, Dr. Matthew, I appreciate the discussion. Thank you both for being here.

New developments in the investigation into the January 6th Capitol attack, President Trump's inner circle now becoming a bull's eye. The congressional committee investigating the insurrection has now issued its first round of subpoenas. And the four -- four of Trump's closest advisers are called to testify next month, Mark Meadows, Steve Bannon, Dan Scavino and Kash Patel.

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What did they know before the insurrection and what did they witness during it?

I want to bring in CNN Capitol Hill Reporter Melanie Zanona and CNN Senior Legal Analyst Elie Honig, he is a former Assistant U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York.

Melanie, let me start with you with the reporting here. What do we know about these four people who have been subpoenaed and what the committee is seeking?

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Well, these subpoenas are to the highest ranking staffers in the Trump White House, and the committee is not only seeking documents, but they also want depositions. So they want these people to come up here before the committee.

On that list is Mark Meadows, Trump's loyal chief of staff. We know he went to great lengths to try to overturn the election results. In fact, he reportedly pressured the DOJ to investigate false claims of voter fraud. So the committee is going to want to know exactly whether he was working at Trump's request and what he was doing.

The subpoena was also sent to Dan Scavino, the deputy chief of staff, as well as Steve Bannon, he was a Trump adviser. He also had the president's ear and was really egging on Trump in the lead-up January 6. He also went on his podcast on January 5th and said, all hell is going to break lose tomorrow.

And, finally, a subpoena was sent to Kash Patel. He was the chief of staff to the acting defense secretary at the time. And this is important because it shows that the committee is looking into the Pentagon's response as the riots were unfolding and what sort of communication they were having with the White House. And so we are starting to get a very clear sense about where this investigation is headed.

CABRERA: We're told this is just the beginning, Elie. What does this first batch of subpoenas tell you about the committee's strategy?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Ana, it tells me they are going right to the heart of the matter. It tells me they are focused right on the White House and former President Trump's inner circle.

There was a really memorable moment if you remember the first time the committee held hearings when you heard testimony from four different police officers. And one of those police officers, Daniel Hodges, said essentially to the committee, we can testify about what happened on the ground that day on January 6th but we need you, the committee, to look and see if anyone in power knew anything about this, was behind any of this, supported this. And I think that's exactly where the committee is looking right now.

CABRERA: Melanie, October 14th and 15th are the dates set for private depositions of these four. What are the chances Mark Meadows or any of them show up?

ZANONA: Well, Ana, that, of course, is the big question. And if history is any indication, they are definitely going to fight these subpoenas and try to claim executive privilege. But as Elie can speak to, it's different conversation with executive privilege when you're talking about former White House officials. And the Biden administration has said they want to be as cooperative as possible and help the select committee in any way they can.

And then you have Bennie Thompson, the chairman of the select committee, who just told our Manu Raju today that anyone who does not cooperate with these subpoenas could be held in criminal contempt. So, clearly, the committee is trying to do everything it can to enforce these subpoenas, but I think it's pretty obvious that there is going to be a legal battle before we hear from any of these folks.

CABRERA: Elie, what is that legal battle look like, that criminal contempt, if the committee goes there, should everybody refuse to comply with the subpoenas, how long could this take and realistically what can we expect?

HONIG: Yes. So, there are two different fronts here to watch. First of all, Representative Thompson just said we may go seek criminal contempt. Important to understand how that works. If, let's say, Steve Bannon refuses to show up, Congress can then vote to hold him in contempt. Then they have to refer the case over to the Justice Department. But it is DOJ's decision. It is Merrick Garland's decision whether to file criminal charges. That's not Congress' decision.

The second front is Congress can go to court. They can go into the federal courts and say, judge, we need an order compelling Steve Bannon to testify. And then if he does not, there's a different kind of contempt that can be sought. But that is so time-consuming, Ana. We've seen that process take months. In the case of Don McGahn, if you remember, that took two years. That is way more time than this committee has. So, they need to be ready to move very quickly and possibly go down both of those avenues.

CABRERA: How can they move more quickly? Is there anything that can be done to expedite this?

CABRERA: First of all, they can get into court very quickly. It took Jerry Nadler four months to go to court on Don McGahn. This committee appears ready to go to court much quicker. Second of all, if you're arguing this case, you have to stress to the judge, we need expedited review, there is such thing as that. And, Ana, some of the responsibility falls on judges as well. Judges control their own dockets. Judges can decide which cases are the most important. And if you have a case that involves a showdown between Congress and the White House, I believe a federal judge really ought to move that to the very top of the pile.

CABRERA: Elie Honig and Melanie Zanona, thank you both.

HONIG: Thanks, Ana.

CABRERA: We have breaking news from the U.S./Mexico border. The migrant camp where as many as 12,000 migrants were once living under a Texas bridge is now clear. You can see in the drone photo, that drone image moments ago.

Josh Campbell is there on scene. Fill us in, Josh.

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the breaking news here from Del Rio after several days of living in these squalid conditions here under the Del Rio International Bridge, which was, of course, closed, the last of the migrants have left.

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Our team was just down there. I saw the last remnants of these migrants, the last dozen or so getting on the last bus and driving away to a CVP processing center.

Now, although the migrants are gone, we still see the show of force. I want to show you our live drone video there over the Del Rio Bridge, as we pan. You can still see a line police cars that remain here in this area. We have no indication yet from authorities that that will be leaving any time soon. Officials here say that they will have this show force out here as they are concerned about additional migrants coming.

But, of course, again, the breaking news here, this bridge now cleared of these migrants, although the work for law enforcement down there is now finished as it relates to this specific camp. Of course, we can't lose sight of the fact that for so many of these migrants, their pain continues because we know that many of them wanted to stay in the United States.

We're told by the Department of Homeland Security that the majority of these migrants will be sent back to the locations from which they came, that after so many making a treacherous journey through South America, Central America coming up here to the U.S. border, again this, Del Rio Bridge now cleared of the thousands of migrants we've seen here for days. Ana?

CABRERA: Nice work, Josh Campbell, thank you there in Del Rio, Texas.

A bogus audit ordered by Republicans in Maricopa County, Arizona confirms what we all knew, Joe Biden won last November, and he won big, a big blow to the big lie by Trump and his supporters. We'll tell you about it, next.

And later, a mother's heartbreak after a body found earlier this month was identified as her son, missing graduate student Jelani Day.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [13:20:00]

CABRERA: Truth wins again. The results of Arizona's sham audit based on the big lie are in. No surprise here. The outcome didn't change. Biden won. But here's the kicker. The audit actually found that President Biden gained more votes in Maricopa County while Trump lost some.

Nonetheless, the big lie is not going away any time soon because while this bogus audit ends, another is just beginning in Texas.

CNN Senior Data Reporter Harry Enten joins us now. Harry, the big question I have about this new Texas audit is why. Trump won Texas. They just passed new election laws. What is the point of this?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: It's about sowing doubt among the Republican electorate and setting Trump up for 2024. That's what it's all about, right? And if you take a look at our last poll, I think it really gives you an indication of why Trump keeps doing what he's doing. What we essentially see here is they asked among Republicans, is Trump the best chance of winning in 2024, and what we see is that, overall, 51 percent of Republicans said yes, he is.

Among those who think Biden won only illegitimately, it's 62 percent, 62 percent of those think that Trump has the best chance of winning in 2024. Among those who vote Biden won legitimately, just 22 percent. So all the sowing of the doubt is setting Trump up for 2024, at least in my opinion.

CABRERA: But Republicans, they don't just suspect fraud. It seems they think there's really a there there even though there's no evidence.

ENTEN: This is bonkers to me. It's one thing to think, you know, okay maybe there was something that happened even though there's no proof of it, but a lot of Republicans actually believe that there's solid evidence, solid evidence, even though there is no solid evidence that Biden didn't win the election legitimately. In our poll, I believe it was 54 percent of Republicans believe that there was solid evidence he didn't.

And, you know, to me, what's so important is we have to put in this in a historical context, right? We've had a lot of other elections, a lot of candidates have lost in the past. But you know what happened? Those voters who voted for the losing candidate or those who are part of their party, pretty much all of them had confidence in the results. No confidence at all that the election was counted accurately, look at that, 10 percent, 10 percent, 6 percent, 11 percent, 2004, 2016. 2020, 63 percent of Republicans said they had no confidence at all that the election was counted accurately. It's crazy. This is nuts. It's crazy and it's just nuts. That's all I can say.

CABRERA: Well, thanks for breaking it down and because you're right. And it's important that we continue to raise awareness about what's happening and we hope to continue to make sure the facts are first. Harry Enten, always good to see you here, Happy Friday, thanks for joining us.

ENTEN: Happy Friday.

CABRERA: Just ahead, six days and counting before the U.S. government runs out of money. So what's being done to avert a shutdown? That's next.

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CABRERA: President Biden says his sweeping social agenda is at a stalemate, his word, as Congress counts down to a potential government shutdown and the risk of an economic catastrophe. The House did pass a bill to keep the government from running out of money and to suspend the debt limit, and that measure now goes to the Senate on Monday, where Republicans plan to block it. If Congress fails to act, the government could run out of money by September 30th. That's just six days from now. And it could default on its debts by mid-October.

CNN Senior White House Correspondent Phil Mattingly joins us. Phil, time is of the essence here. What are we hearing from the president?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I don't think I've ever really seen, Ana, a legislation pile-up of major deadlines and extraordinarily consequential issues all coming to a head and really kind of a three to six-day period. That's what President Biden is facing right now.

And what was interesting when you heard him speak to the reporters earlier today was the window. He kind of gave into the reality, which is why he said things were at a stalemate. The negotiations between Democrats' intra-party negotiations, Democrat versus Democrat, really haven't made any major headway forward, even though the president sat down with nearly two dozen Democrats over the course of five hours earlier this week.

Now, there are feverish negotiations going on behind the scenes.

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There's a very real and compressed timetable here. House Democrats are scheduled to vote on one part of President Biden's agenda, the $1.2 trillion infrastructure --