Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Interview With State Rep. Nicole Collier (D-TX); Republican Arizona Audit Flops; Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas Holds Press Conference. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired September 24, 2021 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS, U.S. SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: And I made the statement that I did with respect to what those images suggested.

Their -- the horses have long reins, and the image in the photograph that we all saw that horrified the nation raise serious questions about what -- let me finish -- about what occurred. And as I stated quite clearly, it conjured up images of what has occurred in the past.

Let me finish.

There's also a question of how one uses the horse and how one interacts with individuals with the horse. And so I'm going to let the investigation run its course. I'm not going to interfere with that investigation. The facts will be determined by the investigators, and then the results will be driven by the facts that are determined.

QUESTION: And to follow up, please, before the facts are in, is it helpful to your investigation for the president of the United States to use inflammatory language like people being strapped?

MAYORKAS: Well, let me just be very clear and repeat what I have said.

I am not concerned with respect to the integrity of the investigation. We know how to conduct an investigation with integrity. I served as 12 years as a federal prosecutor. There were a great deal of comments in many of the cases that I handled in the public sphere, and I know how to maintain the integrity of an investigation, and this investigation will have integrity.

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Just a few more. (OFF-MIKE)

QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, thank you.

Are Title 42 expulsions sending Haitians back to danger in Haiti immoral, yes or no?

MAYORKAS: No, they are not. They are driven by a public health imperative. (CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: But are they immoral.

MAYORKAS: But let me explain, because let me be quite clear.

We do not conduct ourselves in an immoral way. We do not conduct ourselves in an unethical way. In fact, in fact, we are restoring people by reason of the immorality of the past administration.

We are reuniting families that were separated. Let me explain something, the reality of the situation, because we're dealing with a great number of individuals who are encountered at the border in a congregant setting and placed in Customs and Border Protection, Border Patrol stations.

And that can cause the significant spread of a pandemic. And it is in light of the operational realities that the Centers for Disease Control made a determination in its public health expertise that Title 42 authority must be exercised.

It is a statutory authority. And they made the determination that the public health of the migrants themselves, our personnel, local communities, and the American public require it.

And that is why we are exercising that authority to serve the public health. Over 600,000 Americans have died. More than 40 U.S. Customs and Border Protection personnel have died.

Many migrants have gotten sick. We are doing this out of a public health need. It is not an immigration policy. It is not an immigration policy that we would embrace.

PSAKI: OK, Rachel (ph), last one. Go ahead, Rachel.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: Secretary, thank you.

PSAKI: We have all been civil here. Let's let Rachel--

(CROSSTALK)

PSAKI: -- question.

QUESTION: Congregation under the bridge, congregating, there just mentioning COVID, what is the situation there?

I know that the crowd has been dispersed. Do we know who has tested positive, if people got sick, any kind of symptoms among this group of 15,000, you said?

MAYORKAS: Yes, so we do not test -- we did not test that population of individuals. We do not know -- I do not know, I should say, if I may be perfectly accurate. I do not know if anyone was sick with COVID. We certainly had some individuals get sick, not specifically with

COVID, to my knowledge, and we addressed their illnesses. In fact, we set up medical tents that had a certain standard of ability to address medical needs. It is -- it was -- it's hot in Del Rio, Texas. We had cases of dehydration.

We had other situations. And that is precisely why we surged 100 -- approximately 150 medical professionals to address the medical needs of that population.

That is why we set up medical facilities with the appropriate equipment to address their medical needs.

And I must say, what I saw of the Border Patrol and other personnel was, quite frankly, heroic. They took -- this is not their customary obligations, and yet they took great pride in addressing the needs of the people.

[15:05:09]

QUESTION: With all due respect, sir, your statement that this is not who we are belies the actual treatment of Haitian immigrants, not just in this administration, but in administrations of both parties going back decades.

And you seem to be distinguishing between violence and violence.

MAYORKAS: I'm sorry?

QUESTION: What is the difference between the type of violence that Haitians fleeing in Haiti and the type of devastation and other devastation that they are fleeing, as compared to other immigrants and asylum seekers?

Democrats left and right up and down have been talking about the violence that people who have been fleeing Central America and South America, and the president even during his campaign talked about the fact that this created a need to create a pathway and an asylum system.

This doesn't seem to be the case when it comes to the Haitian--

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: And, in fact, the images are a true graphic representation of the way Haitian immigrants and immigrants of African descent have been treated, not just by this administration.

(CROSSTALK)

MAYORKAS: If I may, I would respectfully disagree with you.

And let me say--

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) on the wrong side of U.S. immigration for the last 20 years, so I have some experience with it. MAYORKAS: Oh, no, no, no, I wasn't commenting on your personal

experience, sir, and I am an immigrant as well.

I wasn't commenting on your personal experience. I was respectfully disagreeing with an assertion you made, if I may, because--

(CROSSTALK)

MAYORKAS: If I may, an asylum claim is determined based on the facts that are presented in the individual case.

In fact, the Title 42 authority has been applied to irregular migration since the very beginning of this administration and before. And it has applied to individuals from Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, and other countries.

It has been applied equally. And the exceptions that I cited have been the exceptions that have applied to all. There are three exceptions, the convention against torture, acute vulnerabilities, such as extreme medical needs, and operational capacity.

Those are the three exceptions. Title 42 authority has been applied, irrespective of the country of origin, irrespective of the race of the individual, irrespective of other criteria that don't belong in our adjudicative process and we do not permit in our adjudicative process.

PSAKI: Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: The whips, the horse whips.

(CROSSTALK)

MAYORKAS: Sir, that is something -- that is something that horrified us all.

And this morning, I was on radio, and the interviewer said that it was -- it troubled very profoundly the black and the African-American community, and I said one thing, and this should be clear. Those are not the only communities that it horrified.

Those are not the only communities that it concerned. Of course, that concern might be most acute, given the history in this country and in other parts of the world. But all of America is horrified to see what those images suggest.

PSAKI: Thank you so much, Secretary Mayorkas. Appreciate your time.

He will come back, I promise. I know there's lots of questions. But we have to let him go back to his job.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas there giving an update and taking some questions on the crisis at the border, where he says that the mostly Haitian migrants who were under that International Bridge in Del Rio, Texas, there's no one there now; 12, 400 will have their cases heard by an immigration judge to determine if they will have asylum granted, 5,000 still being processed at processing centers, and 8,000 returned to Mexico voluntarily.

Now, let's bring in now CNN reporter Priscilla Alvarez, CNN chief national affairs correspondent Jeff Zeleny, and CNN international correspondent Matt Rivers, who is at the Southern border.

And Jeff, let me -- excuse me -- start with you.

And I know there are a lot of headlines out of this. But I want to make sure we address that exchange that happened at the end between that immigrant, that American who says he's from an immigrant family who also covers immigration, and what has been felt across the black community as they have watched this happen.

[15:10:08]

The president said on the night that he won the election in 2020 that black people had my back, and I will have yours.

And there has been horror across the diaspora, not just from Caribbean Americans, but black people who watched these men on horses swing whatever it was, a long rein at people, and charge horses. The president came out and said that these men will pay. Mayorkas says there will be an investigation.

Talk first about the discrepancy and the broader question about what this means, this moment for this administration.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Certainly, we heard President Biden finally address this today at the end of a week after several days of questions about what the administration believed was happening in those searing images.

He addressed it, calling it horrific, saying they will pay. But this is the first time we have heard Secretary Mayorkas in the White House Briefing Room. He has talked about it throughout the week.

But he says there will be an investigation. He said it does not uphold the ethics and the values of his department. But you can tell, Victor, as you were just saying there, that last question in the Briefing Room just a few moments ago, just about the searing history and the hurt and the pain that those images certainly have conjured up, and we heard the secretary there say he also is an immigrant, which is true.

But the question is, there is still a lack of trust about what will actually come out of this investigation. But he said there will be a thorough investigation. He said, this department knows how to investigate the matter.

So, regardless of what it was, if it was a chain or if it was a whip, we all saw those images. So they have suspended the use of horseback at the border there. But, interestingly, he also said that the migrant camps are now empty, but tried to make the distinction. One other question throughout the week has been Title 42. What is

Titled 42? That is the health initiative, a CDC standard, a health policy. It's not a migration law. And that is what they're being -- these migrants are being expelled, sent home on. So trying to make some clarity about Title 42.

But Democrats and allies of this White House have called on the president to suspend that. Yes, there is a health emergency, but they believe that sending migrants back to Haiti simply is uncivil, inhumane.

So we heard the secretary there trying to bring some calm, I think, and some order to this, but certainly so much pain, and so many questions regarding really what has happened here this week.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Matt Rivers, I want to go to you because just yesterday you were showing us the vivid pictures of exactly where you're standing now, and people crossing back and forth over that river, as they have been for days.

And so it was striking to hear the secretary say that everyone has been cleared out now from under the bridge, because the problem had seemed so intractable as recently as yesterday. And so how were they able to get it together in the past 24 hours?

MATT RIVERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It is remarkable how quickly they were able to get people out from under that International Bridge in Del Rio. I mean, it was just a few days ago, even just yesterday, like you said, Alisyn, that so many people were going back and forth, back and forth.

But I think what you did see, really by yesterday evening, were the Haitian migrants that are here have kind of decided which side they're going to go to. Are they going to go to the U.S.? Are they going to stay here in Mexico? These few hundred people still here in Mexico, they're going to go through the asylum process here.

The people who are over in the U.S., they basically stayed put as of last night, and maybe that gave the Department of Homeland Security a way to really get a handle on this.

One thing I would add, though, in just listening to Secretary Mayorkas I spent most of the month of July and August in Haiti. And one thing the secretary said is that he made the decision or at least the government made the decision that Haiti can process those people that they are deporting back to Port-au-Prince.

I would love to know exactly how they make that determination, because the country that I saw for weeks between July and August is absolutely not ready to take back all of those people. This is a country that in many ways is in shambles.

I will give you one example of that. The earthquake affected a lot of rural areas outside of Port-au-Prince, the capital. In order to get aid to those areas outside of the capital, you would drive truck convoys, convoy after convoy bringing aid. They're not able to do that in Haiti, because the gang violence is so

pervasive there. The gang control the only highway that really goes from Port-au-Prince to the southern peninsula. The poverty there is pervasive.

The prime minister, who Secretary Mayorkas talked about being in charge of the country, is far from some leader who actually has the confidence of the people. He's an unelected person who is essentially the de facto leader. That country still does not have a president.

So when they're talking about a country that can take back these people who made their way here, I would love to know exactly what the qualifications are that they use to make that decision, because what I saw personally firsthand for weeks between July and August is not a country that is ready to take back thousands of people all at the same time.

[15:15:02]

BLACKWELL: And the secretary said there that there have been 17 expulsion flights to Haiti, 2,000 Haitians repatriated, his terminology there.

Priscilla, let me come to you -- excuse me -- because there were far more than the numbers of patients who showed up under this bridge, who left Haiti after the 2010 earthquake and went to South America and may be making a plan to come north to Mexico and to the U.S. border.

What do we know about the potential for this to happen again soon?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's likely, frankly.

There are many more Haitians in the Western Hemisphere who are considering coming north. We reported earlier this week up to 30,000. Now, they may reconsider having seen thousands be deported to Haiti, a country that they are unfamiliar with.

But, Victor and Alisyn, what this week really put a focus on is, what is the administration strategy when it comes to the U.S.-Mexico border? Do they want to accept people and admit them based on their asylum claims? Or do they want to deter them? Do they want to fall back on what the U.S. has often defaulted to, which is deterrence policy, discouraging people from coming to the U.S.-Mexico border?

And that is what we saw, in part, in that press briefing, the homeland security secretary, Alejandro Mayorkas, giving a full throated defense of that public health authority known as Title 42. That does date back to March of 2020 during the Trump administration, and more than 900,000 people have been expelled using that authority.

And, this week, it put a focus on the use of that authority. That is the reason that the administration was able to expel people so quickly and put out 17 repatriation flights, with more likely expected, as they process the last 1,000 that have been sent to other facilities.

So it really boiled down to what advocates have been criticizing the administration for, which is, these migrants should have a chance to seek asylum if they so choose, and that they should ditch that Title 42 policy.

So that is, I think, what really this week put a fine tune on.

BLACKWELL: All right, Priscilla, Matt, Jeff, thank you all for the reporting there.

All right, nearly 11 months after President Biden decidedly won the election and eight months after he was sworn in as president of the United States, former President Trump and his allies are still trying to prove an alternate reality, even as the house of cards continues to crumble.

Next, we are going to hear from -- next hour, I should say, the findings of that sham audit of ballots in Arizona that was commissioned by the state Senate Republicans. And the results have officially backfired.

CAMEROTA: President Biden actually won 99 more votes in Maricopa County than previously thought, while former President Trump earned 261 fewer votes than we previously thought.

And if that's not enough, Donald Trump's obsession and inability to admit defeat has put taxpayers on the hook for already $425,000. But they say those prices will go up. A lot of people want to be paid. He's now pressuring copycat GOP audit attempts in battleground states that President Biden won like Wisconsin and Pennsylvania.

However, President Trump is also suggesting they do so in states that he won, like Texas.

CNN's Natasha Chen joins us live from Phoenix.

So, Natasha, the Cyber Ninjas are set to detail their findings--

BLACKWELL: Air quotes.

CAMEROTA: -- in a public presentation to the Arizona Senate this afternoon.

But some of it's been leaked, which is how we know these new numbers that show that Joe Biden won even more decidedly than we knew. So what are they going to say this afternoon?

NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Alisyn and Victor, we are expecting that, because of what you just said, that their own hand recount shows, actually, Joe Biden did win Maricopa County, we expect that this presentation may focus on some arguments casting doubt on potential issues affecting maybe tens of thousands of ballots, without actual solid evidence of that happening.

And that presentation is going to happen in less than an hour here inside the state Senate building. And that's why we see all these people getting ready, outside, lined up, trying to get in, a lot of Trump supporters that we see holding signs and flags and wearing shirts saying still Trump won and stop the steal.

You see more people waiting over here, and as well as chairs set up over there with a livestream prepared. And on those chairs, we see signs indicating that a lot of those are reserved for the audit workers.

Let's remind everyone who these people are. These workers spent five months for this review. This was run by Cyber Ninjas, a group hired by the Republican-led Arizona State Senate. The CEO of Cyber Ninjas has been seen promoting and retweeting misinformation with election conspiracies.

[15:20:12]

So this has been a problematic review process from the start. And here is Maricopa County Supervisor Bill Gates talking about how this went down.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL GATES (R), MARICOPA COUNTY, ARIZONA, SUPERVISOR: Those behind this, they don't have reverence for democracy. They are trying to sow doubt so that, down the road, they can again question elections if they don't turn out the way they wanted them to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHEN: And some of the issues, just some that we have observed over the past five months include changing processes in how they are reviewing the ballots.

Of course, election officials say that any legitimate audit should have a consistent method. And that did not happen here. And, of course, again, a lot of taxpayer money spent, a lot of anticipation into these final results that have been delayed for a long time.

And, finally, we're going to hear what they have to say in less than an hour -- Alisyn and Victor.

CAMEROTA: OK, Natasha Chen, we will be looking forward to that. Thank you for the reporting.

BLACKWELL: Well, despite the fallout in Arizona, the former president's conspiracy is, sadly, living on in Texas.

Former President Trump wrote an open letter to Governor Greg Abbott demanding an election audit in his state. And just hours later, the secretary of state's office says that it plans a full forensic audit of the 2020 election in four of the state's largest counties, three of which Biden one.

Worth mentioning here that President Trump carried Texas by 5 percentage points.

Joining us now is Texas state Representative Nicole Collier. She represents Tarrant County, which is one of the four counties that will be subjected to this audit.

So, first, thank you for being with me.

We heard from back in May a deputy of the former secretary of state that Texas had a smooth and secure election in November. So, explain to me why this is happening. Why do you believe it's happening?

STATE REP. NICOLE COLLIER (D-TX): Well, we see that there's a trend in Texas to move more blue.

And, of course, following that statement in -- from the secretary of state's office, of course, that secretary of state was no longer -- she was let go. She was not approved by the state Senate. So Texas doesn't even have a secretary of state right now.

It is the deputy secretary of state, who was a former staffer of the governor, that is making the calls right now. And so that's why we have this political posturing. Governor Abbott is up for reelection. He's trying to pander to Trump. And we see that Trump is still greatly involved in the leadership here in Texas, as evidenced by the quick and swift call for this full and complete forensic audit.

BLACKWELL: So we know from a recent CNN poll that 59 percent of Republicans believe that it is important to believe that President Trump won the election as part of the credentials, bona fides, of being a Republican. You have to believe that to be a member of the party.

So let's flip this a bit. Once this comes out, this audit is completed by the secretary of state's office, there was no report of fraud, and it shows that, do you believe that this breaks the fever at all for those who are calling the election in 2020 a farce?

COLLIER: No, I don't think so.

I think that they're blindly following a leader that's taking them out into the wilderness. The elections were smooth and secure. There was no fraud. I envision that we will see better results for President Biden if they do it.

And, besides, the secretary of state's report can do nothing to change the outcome of the 2020 election. So this is just a waste of taxpayer dollars. And let's move forward and support our leader that we have now, so that we can do the best for not only Texas, but all America.

BLACKWELL: Yes, I'm really wondering, listening to that answer, do you know what this is going to look like?

There were more than 3.9 million votes cast in those four counties across Texas. Is this going to be an electronic audit that can happen in a couple of days? Or are they going to pull out those millions of ballots and do what we saw similar to the audit in Arizona?

COLLIER: Well, they have made a request for money from the state legislature to help fund their efforts. My understanding is that there's four trainers that they have that

could go out and do physical reviews. So I don't think it's just going to be some type of electronic. I think they're going to actually go into these election offices, the administration offices, and start counting and making sure that they followed processes and procedures that are in place by the law.

[15:25:03]

But again, there was no evidence of fraud. This is all a part of the big lie, because Trump won and our new president is President Biden.

BLACKWELL: Now, let me ask you last one here.

The president asked for a forensic audit of the vote there across Texas, not the four most populous counties. If the president says that's not enough, do the whole state, what's your degree of confidence that Governor Abbott will say, we're not going that far? Or do you expect that he will then that, just as we saw after the letter was written, and we heard from the secretary of state's office, appease the president?

COLLIER: Well, President Trump did ask for an audit of the 2020 elections all across.

I imagine that they're going to move forward with the entire state, because the press release said that they have started on the four -- these four counties, these four large counties.

Now, there's legislation that has been filed for this special session, that third special session in Texas, that would require it for counties that have a population of more than 300,000. And then there's another piece of legislation that says all counties.

So we will see which one wins out. But I do believe that they're going to continue to waste taxpayer dollars and resources on this bounty hunt or this hunt for something, the boogeyman that does not even exist.

BLACKWELL: As we saw in Arizona.

COLLIER: Exactly.

BLACKWELL: Nicole Collier, thank you so much.

COLLIER: Thank you, Victor.

BLACKWELL: All right, day six of the search in Florida now, this nature preserve, for Gabby Petito's fiance, Brian Laundrie. And now the FBI has an arrest warrant. We have got details about that.

CAMEROTA: And moments before a live in-studio interview with the vice president, two co-hosts of "The View," our good friends, test positive for coronavirus.

What happened next? (COMMERCIAL BREAK)