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NYT: FBI Had An Informant In Capitol Riot Crowd; Jan. 6 Committee Subpoenas Four People From Trump's Inner Circle; Manhunt For Brian Laundrie; Eight Unvaccinated NYPD Officers Hospitalized With COVID; NYT: Security Team Hired By Britney Spears' Father Secretly Recorded Star In Her Home; Shouting Match Erupts Between Marjorie Taylor Greene And Debbie Dingell Over Abortion Rights, "Civility". Aired 5-6p ET

Aired September 25, 2021 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[17:00:26]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Pamela Brown in Washington.

Well tonight, the mob that stormed the U.S. Capitol on January 6th included far right groups such as QAnon and the Proud Boys, but one of them was also an FBI informant. That's according to brand new reporting on the "New York Times" which says the informant was texting his FBI handler a play-by-play of events during the assault.

"The Times" report claims this informant's narrative suggests the Proud Boys were caught up in mob mentality rather than a coordinated attack.

Informer reports should always be taken with a grain of salt. Still, it raises serious questions about how this will impact the government's case against several Proud Boy members.

I'm joined by CNN's Arlette Saenz at the White House and Sunlen Serfaty on Capitol Hill. Great to see you both.

Sunlen, let's start with you. What does this "Times" report reveal about communication between the Proud Boy member and his FBI handler?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this reporting Pam is really the first time that we're hearing of real time communication happening between an informant, in this case, a member of the Proud Boys and the FBI play-by-play description of what was going on as the insurrection was unfolding here at the Capitol.

Now this is according to confidential records that the "New York Times" received as well as confirmed from a person familiar. And the informant describes how this person met at the base of the Washington Monument with other members of the Proud Boys marched to the U.S. Capitol and deliberated a little bit outside with other members, trying to decide whether they would go in or not. They ultimately did decide to go in along with many other people hear in the U.S. Capitol. The timeline important here, too. The informant began to first work with the FBI in July of 2020. It was then in early December of 2020 when the informant told the FBI about potential plans for a pro Trump rally outside the Capitol in early January and they included screen grabs of some online chatter that was happening on Internet sites.

The informant denied that they planned to storm the Capitol and denied that they participated in any of the violence. Now, all of this potentially gives some fuel to the Proud Boys defense team here that they have long been arguing that they did not plan a premeditated attack on the Capitol.

and one of their lawyers telling CNN just this afternoon in response to the "New York Times" reporting "From my perspective, this tends to confirm that the Proud Boys made a spur of the moment impulse decision to enter the U.S. Capitol."

Now in this report, the "New York Times" did not name the informant. And previously, a member of the Proud Boys did confirm to CNN that they had been an informant, yet it is not known if this is the same person, Pam.

BROWN: And I want to go over to you at the White House. The January 6 committee is investigating those who may have played a role in inspiring this riot, and they're sending subpoenas to four of Trump's closest aides and allies -- former Trump White House chief of staff Mark Meadows, former deputy chief of staff Dan Scavino, former adviser Steve Bannon and Kash Patel, a former Defense Department official.

The committee expects them all to show up for a deposition and to hand over documents by October 7th. President Biden is not expected to use executive privilege to shield Trump era records from being seen by the committee. What's the thinking behind this given the precedent that this could set?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well Pamela, there is high interest in whether President Biden will move forward with allowing that information to be released to that House Select Committee regarding President Trump and his aide's communications around the January 6th insurrection.

And yesterday, White House press secretary Jen Psaki said that the president generally does not believe he will need to assert executive privilege to shield these documents from being released.

Now, the White House later clarified that this would all be considered on a case by case basis.

But take a listen to what Psaki had to tell reporters here at the White House about this yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We take this matter incredibly seriously and certainly we have been working closely with congressional committees and others as they work to get to the bottom of what happened on January 6th, an incredibly dark day in our democracy.

And it's a (INAUDIBLE) to not asserting executive privilege and obviously some of this is predicting what we don't know yet, but that is certainly his overarching view.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is there something that you wouldn't turn over?

[17:04:56]

PSAKI: I don't think I'm going to get ahead of a hypothetical, but that is what is important for people to know and understand that that's the principle through which we're approaching this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ok.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: Now, former President Trump has threatened to invoke executive privilege to keep these documents from being released to that committee, but ultimately, it appears that decision will actually lie with his successor, the current president, Joe Biden.

Now on Thursday, the White House said that they were taking the steps, making the moves to start providing the select committee with the information that they're seeking. But all of this could set up a potential legal fight between the former president, Donald Trump, and the current president and this administration under President Biden.

BROWN: All right. Arlette Saenz in the White House, Sunlen Serfaty on Capitol Hill for us tonight. Thank you both.

So what did the FBI know about the Capitol threat and when did it know it? That question now raised in the wake of the "New York Times" report as we just noted that says an FBI agent had an informant inside the Proud Boys extremist group.

According to "The Times" during the Capitol attack, this informant was providing real-time updates to his handler.

So let's bring in CNN senior political analyst and former adviser to four presidents David Gergen, and CNN counterterrorism analyst, former FBI and CIA official Phil Mudd to make sense of this report and what it really means.

So Phil, I'm going to start with you given your background. Does this look like it was standard procedure or a possible intelligence failure? How do you see it?

PHIL MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: Well, I don't see how you could call this an intelligence failure. You have a penetration of an organization that had political intent. That's a really sensitive organization to have an informant inside of. Let's say nothing happened at the Capitol and someone asked you, were

you surveilling people who were attending a rally that was led by the U.S. President? That's a really sensitive operation to run. The fact that they had an informant at all to me is significant.

The issue I think, if you read the story, that's really important and that a lot of people are skipping over is something that's fundamental in the spy business. And that is access. If you have somebody, and it looks like this person does not have access to leadership circles in the Proud Boys, if you have somebody who's not that significant, they can still tell you stuff like where are they meeting? When are they getting to the city? What are they talking about? What are the kinds of places that they communicate on on the Internet?

So it doesn't tell me that it's an intelligence failure. It tells me they have access to lower levels maybe of the Proud Boys that didn't represent leadership decisions. That's it.

BROWN: And of course, that raises questions about how much credibility you should lend to the information in terms of really what the Proud Boys, what they were planning, whether it was premeditated versus a mob mentality the day of the insurrection.

The fact that this was someone lower level and not someone who hypothetically would have been involved in the planning.

David, to you, President Biden is expected to waive executive privilege to allow the January 6 committee to see certain Trump era records. How would you have advised him on this?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think a great deal rests on what's in the documents. Ordinarily, a president would be granted executive privilege, especially anything that's terribly sensitive, but of course, there's a provision and there has been for a long time, that executive privilege can disappear.

And if in fact there are crimes that are involved or something very, very serious. So we need to know what level these documents were and how believable was the person who was giving the information, the informant. We don't know that.

You know, it seems to me on the whole, much of what we've learned in the last 24 hours is tantalizing, but it's not definitive. It suggests that there was an informant who (INAUDIBLE) it's not clear whether the informant was believed, and to go to Phil's point, whether they had the credibility inside the FBI to be believed. And what some question whether the FBI had gotten the information that this assault was unfolding, but didn't believe what the informant was telling him from the ground.

So there are a lot of issues here to be explored and I think we'll get to the executive privilege further down the line, I would imagine. When the White House decides whether it has enough that it must, that it should override executive privilege.

BROWN: Right. And as we heard Jen Psaki say, they are looking at it on a case-by-case basis, but the framework they're working off of going into it is that he's unlikely to assert executive privilege.

But Phil, I want to go to you now. Four key Trump advisers have been subpoenaed by the January 6 committee. What happens if they refuse to comply?

MUDD: The congress has got to sit there and say do we want to go after them legally if they have lawyers who simply say on the executive privilege issue, who simply say I had private conversations that are protected because those are executive branch and the president shouldn't reveal those.

[17:09:56]

MUDD: I think this has a long way to go. I would be surprised if they just rolled over and came. I'm not sure I would if I were them. I was asked questions by the Congress periodically. In the back of my head was the response potentially, I can't answer that because that's a conversation I had in the White House.

Look, let me give you a bottom line. I realize this is a sensitive issue. I realize that. But do you want presidents down the road saying I can't get clear counsel from my advisers because the Congress, particularly opponents of us in the opposite party are going to call somebody and tell them you've got to testify?

This is a tough one. I'm not sure what I would do.

BROWN: And of course, David Gergen, the big lie is the backdrop to all of this. Donald Trump will take the stage shortly in Georgia. I mean is his election rhetoric just as dangerous today as it was that first week in January?

GERGEN: In my judgment, we're still on the edge of a cliff here. We don't know which way this is going to go. If we get some -- we don't have anything yet that's really explosive. If we do, then it's going to be a big, big deal that's going to be instantly politicized.

You know, right now, the Republicans aren't taking this too hard because they have other things that they're pushing harder on and they're doing pretty well on right now.

But I think Phil and I are in agreement. This whole issue in this assault on January 6th seemed to have a long way to go.

BROWN: So I want to go to you, Phil, for your perspective on what the former president continues to do. Just last week, he pressured Georgia's secretary of state to reverse his 2020 election loss. This happened while Trump is under criminal investigation for just that, for pressuring Georgia officials to reverse the 2020 election results. What does that tell you?

MUDD: Boy, this, I mean this tells me more as an American citizen than it does as somebody who's involved in investigations from the past.

Let me go to what David says. I don't like drama much, but if you think we're out of the woods yet, I don't think this has anything to do with Georgia. I think as an American citizen, what it has to do is a set-up for 2022 and 2024 for the president to say look what happened in Georgia.

Look what happened in Texas, Arizona, Pennsylvania. Our freedoms are being taken away by people who steal elections. We've already seen that he can motivate people to respond to those kinds of intrigues. He can motivate people to assault the Capitol.

He is setting up with documents including what he's doing in Georgia, not for the legal fight in Georgia, in my opinion, but to tell people on the stump, in a year, in three years, look how people failed us.

If we get failed again, you better show up again. And I'm worried that more people will show up the second time around because the story keeps resonating.

BROWN: And not only that, mechanisms are now in place in some of these states to more easily overthrow the will of the people. Reuters had a story after interviewing secretaries of state and the majority of them who were Trump loyalists said that they didn't believe that Biden legitimately won.

And we're going to be breaking of all of this down in a bit, pick your story later on in the show.

But on that note, David, as someone who has advised so many presidents, who cares so much about American democracy, how concerned are you about the future U.S. elections with this backdrop of the big lie?

GERGEN: I'm very, very concerned. I think that we're in more, we're in potentially more danger than we were six months ago, a year ago.

Listen, the bleakest scenario is that all the efforts that are being made now between Democrats and Republicans on where we're going to go on the economy and the pandemic, you know, that all these talks may collapse and we in government may be seen as dysfunctional.

The Republicans then use this in 2022 to take back the House and set themselves up for 2024. Trump could go on as crazy as he is now, he gets crazier as it goes along.

You can see all of this coming together at an outcome in 2024. If Trump were to be re-elected, all hell is going to break loose in this country.

On the other hand, if his supporters think it's been stolen from him after 2024, all hell could break loose on that, too.

So I think we're in pretty treacherous territory right now and it's going to take a lot of self-restraint and understanding and sort of like just calming the water from some of our political leaders to get through this.

BROWN: Those are not very good options you just laid out there, David Gergen. GERGEN: That's right. Pretty terrifying. Phil Mudd, David -- thank you so much.

And heads up, Pulitzer-winning journalist Adam Goldman who covers the FBI for "The New York Times" joins me next hour with more of his bombshell reporting on the Capitol riot crowd. You don't want to miss it.

And up next, reward money now being offered to anyone who helps find Brian Laundrie, the fiance of Gabby Petito. We're going to have details next.

And you're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. We'll be right back.

[17:14:47]

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BROWN: The manhunt for Brian Laundrie, Gabby Petito's fiance is intensifying tonight. And now rewards totaling $30,000 are being offered to anyone who provides authorities with his exact whereabouts.

And we're learning some new clues about some of Laundrie's last known movements. A woman in Wyoming says she gave him a ride on August 29th to the same area where Petito's body was later found.

CNN's Nadia Romero joins us from Venice, Florida where authorities are scouring a vast nature reserve for Laundrie. So Nadia, what's the latest on the search and the investigation tonight?

NADIA ROMERO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well Pamela, we're seeing more activity now than we have all day long of different cars coming in and out. Part of that search effort to try to find Brian Laundrie.

Now his parents are the ones who told investigators that he came to this preserve about a week ago, last week on Tuesday, so more than a week now. And that they haven't heard from him since.

[17:19:51]

ROMERO: Now there's a lot of speculation that the parents may not be telling the complete truth. And so we know that the FBI and other vehicles are parked out in front of the Laundrie home right now following them and keeping a close watch as are so many others.

There are people that are driving by asking us, hey have they found Brian yet? So many people are engaged in what happened to Gabby Petito and where is Brian Laundrie.

But the search efforts today have been really scaled back compared to all of the activity we saw here earlier in the week. But interestingly, you don't know what's going to happen with this case from day-to-day because things change.

We started in Wyoming and then we learned about what happened to this couple in Utah. We know that Gabby Petito is from New York and they're going to have a memorial for her tomorrow, a celebration of life to honor her memory.

But here in Florida, we saw a man who appeared to be Dog, the Bounty Hunter. I mean take a look at the video. That looks like him, right? He's pretty recognizable. We reached out to his representatives to get a better idea of why he showed up at the Laundrie house.

No one answered the door after he knocked on the door. The man wo looks like Dog the Bounty Hunter got back into his vehicle, left the neighborhood, but not before police stopped him and asked him a few questions before he was able to drive out of the neighborhood.

And that's really what's happening here. There are a lot of different elements, a lot of states, a lot of people with high interest in this case, Pamela.

BROWN: Certainly. Nadia Romero, thank you so much.

And let's discuss all of this with former FBI senior profiler and special agent, Mary Ellen O'Toole. Good to see you, Mary Ellen.

This search is entering its second week now . There has been absolutely no sign of Brian Laundrie. What do you think about this?

MARY ELLEN O'TOOLE, FORMER FBI SENIOR PROFILER: Well, I have a couple of thoughts on this. Obviously Brian doesn't want to be found. But that is if he's still alive and that's always an issue in a case like this.

I believe that the law enforcement folks, the FBI and the police have other reasons that they are looking really focusing on that area and it's not only because the parents directed them there. Because I know there's discussion that maybe the parents purposely misled the police and that's a possibility.

But for them to focus so much on that reserve area makes me think that there are other reasons that they're looking there and not just based on what the parents said.

BROWN: Well, we know that the last time Laundrie was allegedly seen was on September 14th. That's when his parents say he left their home to hike in the Carlton Nature Reserve. He allegedly left his cell phone and wallet behind.

Again, police are having to work off a lot of the information the parents have given them. and there was questions about the credibility of it. But what does that tell you? he left his cell phone and his wallet behind?

O'TOOLE: I think the reasons are probably pretty obvious that the cell phone -- he could be tracked with his cell phone. He probably took some things out of his wallet and just left it there. But if he stopped and he had his wallet and credit cards and his driver's license on it, he would be identified.

That would suggest to me that he doesn't want to be identified. He's probably made an effort to adjust his appearance. So he doesn't want to be found.

And I also think -- to me, this is very important. He will have to be tracking this investigation in real-time. He needs to know where the authorities are looking and what they're doing because if his efforts are to evade police, then he has to know where they are.

And I think that under the circumstances, when you're one of the most high profile fugitives in the United States, you're under a lot of pressure. You're paranoid. Your decision making, your judgment is breaking down. All of that is creating a lot of pressure on him.

(CROSSTALK)

O'TOOLE: And he will, if he's not already make mistakes.

BROWN: I want to ask you before we let you go, given your role as a former profiler, does anything stand out to you in the police body cam footage taken after the altercation between Petito and Laundrie back in August? Anything you can glean about what really was going on, about his personality?

O'TOOLE: Just watching him, he was in stark contrast to Gabby. She was very weepy and emotional. And he was glib and seemed to be really relaxed and comfortable. Under the circumstances, he's being surrounded by a number of police officers. He was remarkably cool under the circumstances and while she was really so negatively affected by that.

So he does have an ability to be cool under stressful situations and he can land on his feet and I think that's probably serving him fairly well right now. But again, the pressure he's under right now to stay one step ahead of authorities is going to start weighing heavily on him and he's already probably making some major mistakes.

BROWN: All right. Mary Ellen O'Toole, thank you for joining us on this Saturday. We appreciate it.

O'TOOLE: Thank you.

[17:24:52]

BROWN: And coming up, eight unvaccinated NYPD officers now hospitalized with COVID. Hear the commissioner's plea directly to officers to get vaccinated. That's next.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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BROWN: Eight unvaccinated members of the New York Police Department are hospitalized right now with COVID. And one of them is just 23 years old. New York's police commissioner says all were perfectly healthy but are now fighting for their lives. And he's now delivering a desperate plea to all serving on the NYPD to get vaccinated.

[17:29:53] BROWN: CNN's Alison Kosik joins me now with more. So Alison, New York has one of the highest vaccination rates. What's going on with the police there?

ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Well, there seems to be a lot of vaccine hesitancy. And now some officers are sick in the hospital with coronavirus, prompting New York City police commissioner, Dermot Shea, to make a plea to the NYPD to get vaccinated.

The police commissioner releasing an internal video message addressing New York City police officers saying that eight unvaccinated members of the NYPD are in the hospital with COVID-19.

The commissioner starting off the two-minute video with good news, that more than half the police department has been vaccinated, with a police spokesman telling CNN this morning that 62 percent of the NYPD have received at least one dose of the vaccine.

But then the commissioner launches into what he called the bad news, that more than a third of the NYPD remains unvaccinated, which leaves thousands of members of the NYPD vulnerable to the coronavirus.

In the message, he said those in the hospital were perfectly healthy before.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DERMOT SHEA, COMMISSIONER, NEW YORK CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT: Why do I keep coming back to you on this?

I'm talking to family members, multiple rank, I'm talking to you, and your partners when it's too late, when you're in the hospital or you're driving to the hospital and you're having difficulty breathing.

Right now, we have eight members of the NYPD in the hospital. All eight unvaccinated. Serious condition. Some intubated. Some perfectly healthy. One, 23 years old. One person hadn't gotten sick in 10 years and we recently lost him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOSIK: In the video, as he urges others to get vaccinated, the commissioner also talks about how the vaccine works. Saying of the 28,000 members of the NYPD who are vaccinated, only 225 have had positive COVID tests afterwards, but that not one of them has gone to the hospital -- Pam?

BROWN: And that is so key.

Alison Kosik, thank you.

And this NYPD outbreak comes as the U.S. begins rolling out booster shots for anyone over 65 and anyone deemed high risk.

What the head of the CDC is warning tonight, the third dose won't boost us out of this pandemic as long as the U.S. vaccination rates remain so low.

Look at this right here on your screen, 55.2 percent fully vaccinated in the United States.

So I want to discuss this with Dr. Rob Davidson. He's an emergency room physician in west Michigan and executive director of the Committee to Protect Health Care.

Doctor, the NYPD commissioner is all but begging his people to get vaccinated, with eight unvaccinated officers fighting for their lives in the hospital. But asking nicely doesn't seem to be working.

DR. ROB DAVIDSON, E.R. PHYSICIAN & EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, COMMITTEE TO PROTECT HEALTH CARE: No. That story is tragic, but unfortunately it is too common.

I look at our hospitals and the system where I work here in west Michigan and if we look at people in the ICU, over 90 percent of those folks with COVID are unvaccinated people. Their average age is under 50. They don't have comorbidities.

The folks who are vaccinated are over 75, have comorbidities and now will be eligible for boosters.

I think we're so far past. Times are critical. We need employees on the front lines jobs, like health care, teachers, police, paramedics, fire.

These folks just need to get vaccinated and the agencies that oversee them need to mandate this. I think we're past time asking. We've got to save them despite themselves.

BROWN: The mandate is one thing and that's something that's still out there as a question. Should you impose more of that?

Because look, in the NYPD, more than a third, the commissioner said, remain unvaccinated. These are people in high-risk jobs. People you hope would know better.

If they're not getting vaccinated, I mean, what hope do we have of reaching others?

And why do you think there's such a high rate of unvaccination in forces like the police in New York or even among health care workers?

DAVIDSON: It's hard to say. I know, in our system, the majority are vaccinated, but in my community, only about 42 percent are vaccinated.

And people who work at the hospital are really members of the community. I think 99.99 percent of physicians in our hospital are vaccinated.

But you get to other staffers, the people we treat every day and those numbers are lagging.

I work in an area that 69 percent of the people voted for the former president in the last election.

That mindset, folks who watch FOX News, unfortunately, the Facebook groups promoting crazy cures and telling people that vaccines will hurt them, that is dominating the thinking.

It bleeds into health care workers and the Police Department. These are just members of society getting the same disinformation as everyone else.

[17:35:06]

BROWN: Given what you just laid out and the vaccination rate as it stands now, when do you think we're going to reach a point as a country where we just accept COVID as sort of the second flu and we can kind of go and lead our daily lives in a way we somewhat did before but maybe with masks and that kind of thing?

DAVIDSON: A lot of us are mentally there.

But what I will say, for folks in health care, I'm a public health student, the time is now as well.

Folks in public health are extremely optimistic. Sometimes optimistic in the face of you know, opposition that is unbelievable. And so I don't think that we're going to stop trying. You know?

I see a lot of discussion out there about the booster discussion and the CDC director recommending you know, boosters for folks who are younger, but are in professions like health care, teaching.

There's some criticism out there because they say, well, we need to get those unvaccinated people vaccinated. That is true. We have to do both.

But we can't just sit by waiting for these people to turn the corner. We have to keep doing the work.

But we have to make sure we're protecting health care workers., teachers, police officers, firefighters, folks that are out there on the front lines, forward facing, with the public all the time.

You know, we have to do both. But you know, I think, mentally, we're all sort of in that in-between phase right now. Knowing this is going to someday become endemic but trying so hard to protect people despite themselves.

BROWN: Dr. Davidson, thanks for joining us today.

DAVIDSON: Thanks, Pam.

BROWN: Up next, bombshell allegations in "The New York Times" that the security company hired by Britney Spears' father to protect her secretly captured audio recordings from her bedroom. Details, next.

You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:41:33]

BROWN: Tonight, new details about the court ordered conservatorship that has controlled Britney Spears for the last 13 years.

A former employee of the security firm hired by Spears' father told "The New York Times" the pop star was watched and recorded without her consent. He alleges a secret recording device was even placed in Britney's bedroom.

CNN explores the star's plight in a documentary called "TOXIC, BRITNEY SPEARS' BATTLE FOR FREEDOM." It airs tomorrow night at 8:00 Eastern.

And CNN's Chloe Melas joins us.

Chloe, what are we going to learn in your special report on Britney Spears?

CHLOE MELAS, CNN ENTERTAINMENT REPORTER: Well, in a matter of just a few days, you have "The New York Times," like you said, Pamela, came out last night with their second part to framing Britney Spears. This time called "Controlling Britney Spears."

And you have Netflix on Tuesday all leading up to this big court hearing for Britney on Wednesday.

In hours, you're going to hear from employees and friends, or former employees, who have never spoken out before, who were scared to speak out.

But felt they needed to say something now, in this moment, in this moment for Britney, for, hopefully, this 13-year conservatorship that's been court ordered to end once and for all.

So you're going to hear us, too, talking about the control this has had over her life. Her privacy.

Why was she allowed to go on a tour? The circus tour, right after this court puts a conservatorship in place. Isn't that really meant for someone who can't highly function?

But then Britney goes on to produce records and have a Las Vegas residency and be a judge on "The X Factor." So we explore that and the conundrum that has been for Britney.

We also get to speak to members of the Free Britney movement. People are going to learn a lot.

BROWN: You make such a good point. I think a lot of people have been scratching their heads about, why would there be a conservatorship? She's raking in millions of dollars.

And you spoke to some celebrities. Tell me about that.

MELAS: Yes, we have Rosie O'Donnell, who was the first to sit down with Britney when she was a teenager. We have Mischa Barton.

Both of these women relentlessly pursued at different times in their lives by the paparazzi, especially that 2000s cowboy culture. We examine that.

We're living in a moment now where you're saying to ourselves, Pamela, whether you were a journalist at that time or a consumer of the media, of celebrity tabloid culture, do we owe some apologies? Because what happened then definitely couldn't happen now.

BROWN: All right.

Chloe Melas, thank you so much. I'm really looking forward to seeing this.

MELAS: Thank you.

BROWN: And make sure to tune in to the CNN special report, "TOXIC, BRITNEY SPEARS BATTLE FOR FREEDOM." It airs tomorrow night at 8:00 P.M.

[17:44:36]

Well, a Capitol Hill photo op interrupted. And, yes. Have you seen this? Members of Congress yelling at each other on the steps of the U.S. capitol. Details, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: It was a shouting match that anyone on the steps of the capitol could not be ignored. Democratic Congresswoman Debbie Dingle said this viral exchange with her Republican college, Marjorie Taylor Greene, was not her proudest moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): Killing a baby up until birth is a lack of civility. It's called murder. How about the border? How about civility? How about the lack of laws or protecting our Constitution?

REP. DEBORAH DINGELL (D-MI): Yes, you should sacrifice the basic things you're taught in church.

(CROSSTALK)

[17:50:04]

GREENE: Are you kidding me? Try being a Christian and supporting life.

DINGELL: You try being a Christian and.

(CROSSTALK)

GREENE: -- support life --

DINGELL: Decently. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Well, this went down after the House passed abortion rights legislation and after abortion rights events where of an activist yelled at Marjorie Taylor Greene.

Speaking today, Dingell spoke out about this heated exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DINGELL: I asked her to be civil. Why couldn't she be civil?

Not my proudest moment. But I'm tired of being bullied. I've been bullied at different points in my life. You have to a show a bully you're not afraid.

I don't want to see women screaming at each other. At some point, you have to stand up to the bully. So much hate she was just spewing hate and filth.

And, look, I'm not proud. I don't think we should yell at each other. I think we should respect each other. I think we should be civil. But I did not think it was right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So when Paul Fronczak was a young boy, he discovered he was kidnapped as a newborn and reunited with his family two years later. Or so he thought.

Our Kate Bolduan has a preview of the unbelievable new CNN film, "THE LOST SONS."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): As a child, Paul Fronczak thought he knew who he was, but he did not. At the age of 10, he discovered a box full of old newspaper clippings in his house.

PAUL FRONCZAK, SUBJECT AND EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, "THE LOST SONS": So I started reading it and it said, Paul Joseph Fronczak kidnap, and that's not the picture of my mom and dad. And they look really, really sad and heartbroken and distraught.

I said, mom, what is this? This is about me, right? What is this? She said, you're kidnapped. We found you. We love you. We'll never talk about that again.

BOLDUAN: And they didn't. But Paul couldn't let it go. And years later, he embarked on a mission.

P. FRONCZAK: What really happened to me? That's what I needed to find out.

BOLDUAN: It all starts in Chicago, 1964. That's when Paul's mother gave birth to a beautiful baby boy. MARY TRENCHARD PETRIE, FORMER STUDENT NURSE: As I was leaving, this woman walked in. She was dressed in white. I just thought, oh, she's a nurse.

BOLDUAN: But she wasn't. And before anyone knew it, that baby was gone.

PETRIE: Her doctor came in and he said, Mrs. Fronczak, your baby has been taken.

BOLDUAN: Setting off a frantic search for the baby and that mysterious woman.

DORA FRONCZAK, PAUL'S MOTHER: She must have been desperate for a baby that she would come and take someone else's baby away from them.

BOLDUAN: But nothing. Then 15 months later, a toddler is found abandoned in a stroller on a sidewalk in Newark, New Jersey.

When no one steps forward to claim the child, investigators start thinking maybe this could be the missing child from Chicago. So they set up a meeting with the Fronczaks.

JANET ECKERT, FOSTER CAREGIVER: They open the door and the mom said, oh my god, that's my baby.

BOLDUAN: And that should be the happy ending to the story, a family reunited, or so they thought.

P. FRONCZAK: I love my family, and I loved my family upbringing.

BOLDUAN: But Paul could never shake the feeling that he didn't belong.

And when he became a father himself questions about his family's medical history, spurred him into action, asking his parents to take a DNA test.

MICHELLE FRONCZAK, PAUL'S WIFE: He's like, I can't believe that he's like, I'm not the real Paul Fronczak. He's like, I don't know my birthday. It's like I don't even know where I was born or who my parents are.

BOLDUAN: And if you can believe it, that's really just the beginning.

The CNN film, "The Lost Sons" is narrated by Paul Fronczak himself, opening incredible doors into his past and raising deep questions for all of us about what identity truly means.

P. FRONCZAK: But there's more.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Wow, what a story that is.

The all-new CNN film, "THE LOST SONS," premiers tomorrow night at 8:00, only on CNN. Don't want to miss that. And now we take to you Colombia to meet the "CNN Hero, Jenifer Colpas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENIFER COLPAS, CNN HERO: The families that we are working with are living in extreme poverty. These areas are so remote that there's not even roads to get there.

(CROSSTALK)

COLPAS: The communities use candles, gasoline lamps. They don't have a lot of money. And the smoke of the lamps were negatively affecting their health.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

COLPAS: Our mission is to provide access to basic services.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

[17:55:01]

COLPAS: My biggest dream for the people that I'm working with, that they wake up not just to survive, but they can take small steps to fulfill their dreams.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And you can go to CNNheroes.com right now for Jenifer's full story and to see her in action.

And coming up, next hour on this Saturday, a vaccine mandate that was supposed to take effect Monday for New York City teachers is now in legal limbo.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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