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Interview With Rep. Debbie Dingell (D-MI) On The Infrastructure Bill Amid Democratic Divide; General Mark Milley To Face Questions About Actions Recounted In New Book; Amtrak Train Derailment In Montana Kills Three People; Biden's Approval Numbers Drop After Chaotic Summer; Thousands Of Haitians Have Come To The U.S. Border In Past Two Weeks; Trump Rallies With G.O.P. Senate Candidate Herschel Walker. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired September 26, 2021 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:02]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: As COVID cases fall are we at the beginning of the end, or just bracing for another winter surge? Former FDA commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb weighs in.

ALISON KOSIK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Gabby Petito's loved ones gather in New York for a moving memorial as the search for her fiance stretches on.

JOSEPH PETITO, GABBY PETITO'S FATHER: I don't want you guys to be sad. I want you to be inspired by her.

NATASH CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Investigators tonight trying to work out why a passenger train derailed in Montana, killing at least three people.

MEGAN VANDERVEST, PASSENGER ON DERAILED TRAIN: The first thought I really had when I woke up was, oh, my god, we're derailing? We didn't know what was going on for a couple of minutes.

CHLOE MELAS, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Behind the scenes in Britney Spears' battle to free herself from the control of the courts.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM on this Sunday.

Well, tonight President Biden ignoring the critics and maybe the math predicting today his infrastructure bill will pass. That's despite infighting among his fellow Democrats. Here's what he said a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm optimistic about this week. It's going to take the better part of the week, I think. (END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Earlier today House Speaker Nancy Pelosi backed off her vow to hold a vote tomorrow on the president's massive infrastructure bill. The reason, it would almost certainly fail because of resistance by progressive lawmakers in her own party so we still have to wait and see what happens on that front.

Those progressives are demanding the bill to improve roads and bridges be tied to the president's larger $3.5 trillion signature spending bill. And the bottom line of the Democrats infighting, both bills are now in danger of collapsing and that would push the nation closer to a government shutdown, a potential economic crisis.

Democratic Congresswoman Debbie Dingell joins me now.

Debbie, we saw Pelosi's letter that just came out yesterday saying it's going to be an intensive few days. Just how brutal is this week ahead going to be for Democrats like yourself?

REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): So you want to be honest, I'll tell you it's going to be the week from hell. But the fact of the matter is failure is not an option. There is too much at stake. We need both of these bills. We're going to have to come together as a caucus. The D in Democrat for me stands for deliver. We need both of these bills and we're going to have to figure out how we make that happen.

BROWN: So it's interesting because you've been in Congress a long time. Have you ever seen it like this?

DINGELL: Not that long.

(LAUGHTER)

BROWN: Not that long. Long enough, long enough.

DINGELL: Yes. Long enough. I've been there three terms but I'm a seasoned person at watching the Congress. No. I have never seen it this bad. There's more tension, there's more intensity than I have ever seen probably complicated by many factors including a pandemic. But what's at stake is too serious and too real. And people are -- we're just going to have to come together. We need both of these bills.

What's in this infrastructure bill is important but we can't get to where we need to get without the Build Back Better bill as well, and we've got to figure it out. And on top of it, it's a separate vote on shutting the government down. The Republicans just want to take their hands and say not my problem. It is their problem. It's all of our problem and to shut the government down in the middle of a pandemic would be singularly the most irresponsible thing we could ever do.

BROWN: I want to go back to the reconciliation bill because that's such a big part of this week ahead. Speaker Pelosi said that it's obvious that that bill will have a smaller price tag in the end. How low are you willing to go on it? DINGELL: I'm not put those kind of figures. It's what's in that bill

that matters for me. Everything from taking the lead out of every pipe in this country so we don't have any more children drinking lead, building an infrastructure for electric vehicles so we can meet the president's goal of 50 percent EVs in the year 2030. To childcare, three million women having left the workforce during this pandemic. Broadband needs to be gotten into rural areas and urban areas.

There are so many things in this bill that matter that we have to deliver. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity. And by the way, I know people on both sides of the aisle that desperately want our roads and bridges fixed, want that broadband, want lead out of the water, that we just have to figure out how we're going to get it done. We can't -- we just have to get it done.

BROWN: So you are confident the party, the Democrats will eventually come together despite how divided they are and they will be able to compromise, and these bills will pass this week?

DINGELL: You know what I'm going to say? It's not going to be pretty. There's the old Will Rogers. People with weak stomach should not watch laws or sausage being made and this is the ugliest sausage I've ever yet watched. But nobody can afford to have either of these bills fail. Nobody can.

[19:05:00]

Both of these bills have got to get passed. They both must be passed. And I think in the end everybody's having long, thoughtful discussions, and when we realize that what will happen -- and by the way, Republicans need to worry about this, too. If we lose the opportunity to fix our roads and bridges, to do so many things that have to happen, it will be a pox on every member's house, Republican and Democrat.

BROWN: As it stands now how do you see the week unfolding from what you know?

DINGELL: There's no better master negotiator than Nancy Pelosi, and she's been working hard all of this weekend. We'll come together as a caucus tomorrow night. I'm not saying it's going to be easy. I suspect long nights. Lots of discussions. People talking, building trust, framework development. But we'll get there because we don't have any choice but to get there.

BROWN: I want to switch gears and I would be remiss not to have you address the exchange of words on the Capitol Hill steps that you have had with Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene and happened after the House passed abortion rights legislation. Let's listen to that exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): Killing a baby up to birth is a lack of civility. It's called murder. Hey, how about some order down there? Lack of civility. How about lack of laws or protecting and upholding our Constitution?

DINGELL: We have lots of laws we follow. And you should practice the basic thing you're taught in church. Respect your neighbors.

TAYLOR GREENE: Taught in church? Are you kidding me? Try being a Christian and supporting life.

DINGELL: You try being a Christian and try treating your colleagues decently.

TAYLOR GREEN: Support life.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So you've said that wasn't your proudest moment but you're also fed up about being bullied. What do you mean by that?

DINGELL: So she had been -- what most people didn't see was the entire context of this. She had been yelling at us for almost 10 minutes at the top of the Capitol step. The speaker was having a press conference at the bottom of the steps on Build Back Better and she clearly was disruptive.

Look. Choice is one of the most difficult issues for many people but it is a separation of church and state, and she came out looking -- I mean, she just kept spewing the hate that we see her do so often that's dividing this country. And my colleagues have a right to have a press conference at the bottom of the stairs without her spewing that kind of hate.

I just don't know why she always has to attack everybody. We can disagree but we can disagree civilly. And that lack of civility is destroying the fundamental pillars of our democracy. I hadn't felt good all weekend. I've been very, you know, I've been very honest that I'm actually pretty depressed over the weekend over the fact that it happened. But I'm tired of the bullying, I am tired of people bullying us, and just trying to throw these words of venom that really are horrific.

And I've been bullied at different points in my life, and I'm not afraid to stand up to a bully, and I think that this is a woman that tries to bully her way through her colleagues on both sides of the aisle, and I just don't think that if you're elected to the United States Congress we should be treat every member, I don't care who you are, with respect and civility.

BROWN: Congresswoman Debbie Dingell, thank you so much. And best of luck with the hellish week ahead as you said. Thank you very much.

DINGELL: Thank you.

BROWN: The nation's top military officer will have a different kind of combat readiness put to the test this week when he appears on Capitol Hill. On Tuesday, Joint Chiefs chairman General Mark Milley will give his first public testimony since the chaotic end of the U.S. war in Afghanistan. He'll also be grilled about his actions during a final days of the Trump administration.

According to a new book "Peril" co-authored by Bob Woodward, General Milley took secret action to ensure Donald Trump couldn't, quote, "go rogue" with nuclear weapons, and that includes allegedly placing secret calls to reassure his Chinese counterpart, something Trump calls treason.

CNN's Melanie Zanona joins us now from Capitol Hill.

So, Melanie, President Biden has thrown his support behind Milley. What's at stake?

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL CORRESPONDENT: Well, a lot, Pam. This is going to be the first opportunity for members of Congress to grill General Milley since these book revelations came out and since the Biden administration's messy withdrawal from Afghanistan, and Democrats and Republicans alike are going to have a lot of questions for General Milley.

For Democrats they're going to want to know about Trump's state of mind during his final months in office, and they're also going to want to know just how concerned the general was about Trump going rogue. And for Republicans some of whom have called on Milley to either be fired or resign, they're going to want to know whether he was acting out of the chain of command when he was trying to avoid a potential military conflict with China. Now Milley has denied any wrongdoing.

[19:10:01]

He said he was just trying to provide strategic reassurances to China and that none of his calls were secret, but how he handles himself at this hear could determine whether he survives politically. Look, more than anything it's an opportunity for him to set the record straight and repair any damage that might have been done to his reputation. So far, however, Joe Biden and Democrats are standing by him but look, bottom line, this is going to be a must watch hearing on Capitol Hill -- Pam.

BROWN: We'll be watching it closely. Melanie Zanona, thank you so much.

So when will the Delta variant run its course in the U.S.? I asked the former FDA commissioner, Dr. Scott Gottlieb, that very question, and his answer we're going to tell you right after this break.

Plus, investigators tonight trying to figure out what caused a deadly train derailment in Montana.

Also this hour, a moving memorial for Gabby Petito as the search for her fiance stretches on.

And you will not want to miss this. What a story. How a stolen baby sparked a lifetime of questions.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:15:15]

BROWN: Family and friends of Gabby Petito gathered today to celebrate her life and her sense of adventure. A public memorial service was held on Long Island, New York, near the town where Gabby grew up. Long line of people waited to get inside. It was one week ago that Gabby's remains were found in a national forest in Wyoming. Her heartbroken father spoke at today's memorial.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETITO: The entire planet knows this woman's name now. Right? She's inspired a lot of women and a lot of men to do what's best for them first. Put yourself first and do it now while you have the time. I couldn't be more proud as a father.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And Gabby Petito's fiance Brian Laundrie still has not been found. Police and the FBI are intensely searching for him.

Meantime, federal transportation investigators are now on the scene of a deadly Amtrak derailment in Montana. They're looking for what caused eight cars of the passenger train to leave the tracks. Look at this video. Three people were killed. Seven other hospitalized tonight.

Late today Amtrak released a statement on behalf of its CEO, quoting here, "We have no words that can adequately express our sorrow for those who lost a loved one or who were hurt in this horrible event. They are in our thoughts and prayers."

Montana's governor tonight announcing all passengers have been accounted for. Here's CNN's Natasha Chen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHEN (voice-over): Officials say at least three people have been killed with more injured as rescue crews work to help passengers of these overturned train cars. The Amtrak Empire Builder 727 had taken off from Chicago headed towards Seattle, a trip Amtrak says on its Web site that allows passengers to experience the rugged splendor of the American West including major portions of the Lewis and Clark trail. Instead, at around 4:00 p.m. Mountain Time on Saturday near Joplin, Montana, the idyllic scene turned to tragedy.

VANDERVEST: It was probably 10 or 15 seconds of rocking back and forth and tons of noise. And then we came to a stop.

CHEN: Megan Vandervest was taking a nap in one of the front sleeper cars that did not derail. Amtrak said there were approximately 141 passengers and 16 crew members. The train had two locomotives and 10 cars in total, eight of which derailed.

VANDERVEST: I would describe the experience as kind of like extreme turbulence on an airplane but like louder. And there was kind of a lot of smoke smell.

CHEN: She said there was silence in her car and then passengers evacuated within 10 minutes. It wasn't until she got outside that she realized the extent of the problem. She says while the front cars weren't affected, she could see one a couple of cars behind that had derailed and sat between two tracks. Then --

VANDERVEST: The one behind that one had like completely tipped over and fallen over, and that was kind of the most shocking part. It was like immediate shock when we got off because we didn't know anything that significant had happened.

CHEN: Photos from her and other passengers show several cars on their side. She said there were also passengers in front sleeper cars who were worried about their loved ones riding in other parts of the train.

VANDERVEST: The mood was very, like, disconnected. I think a lot of people were just trying to process what happened, not really understanding, especially the people who were in cars that had tipped over. You know, they were kind of coming out of it not even knowing what to think or how to process what just happened to them really.

CHEN: Natasha Chen, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And last hour I spoke with former FDA chief Dr. Scott Gottlieb about where we are right now on the coronavirus pandemic and he laid out a possible target date for an end point to the deadly Delta surge.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB, FORMER FDA COMMISSIONER: Probably by Thanksgiving I think that it'll have run its course. You're seeing very dense epidemics right now in the Midwest, and the Pacific northwest became inflamed a little earlier than that. I think the big question mark is whether the northeast is going to see its own surge of infection.

There is a presumption that because it has high vaccination rates and high prior exposure from previous waves of infection, that it's somewhat impervious to a big wave of infection as people who believe that the surge of Delta that you saw in the summer really was the surge that you're going to see in the northeast.

I'm a little bit more skeptical. I think that you're still going to see a wave of infection sweep across the northeast as kids go back to school and they become sources of community spread. And people return to work, the weather gets cold and people move indoors. But I think by Thanksgiving you'll have seen this move its way through the country.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Meantime, Dr. Gottlieb says early indications point to another mild flu season and he hopes that's the case because at some point after two years of avoiding a lot of social contacts our flu immunity will have waned.

[19:20:01]

That's why our health team says it's important to get your flu shot this year. One thing to point out, you can get a flu shot and a COVID shot at the same time, our health team says.

Now Dr. Gottlieb also talked about the Trump administration's initial response to COVID-19.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOTTLIEB: Well, look, we've prepped for a pandemic for years, going back to -- I remember in the Bush administration where I served, we put in very detailed plans. We were worried about a pandemic with an h5n1 flu. And we even prepped for a pandemic during the Trump administration. There was tabletop exercises including Crimson Contagion which was a tabletop exercise prepping for a hypothetical pandemic involving influenza. So we prepared for a pandemic.

We just prepared for the wrong pandemic, and I think what we found were a lot of the preparations that we had put in place for a flu weren't really applicable to a coronavirus.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: I also asked Dr. Gottlieb about whether he thinks it's important to keep investigating the origin of the pandemic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOTTLIEB: The side of the ledger that points in the direction of this coming out of a lab has probably grown. We've had more circumstantial evidence certainly that suggests this could have come out of the lab. And the side of the ledger that says that this came out of nature, out of a so-called zoonotic source, really hasn't evolved, it hasn't grown. If anything, it's been diminished by the fact that we've, for example, proven that the wet market in Wuhan wasn't a source of spread, it was just a stop along the virus' path through that country.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: For the record nothing has been ruled out. The authorities in China removed all the evidence from the Wuhan market before anyone could look there. There are certainly people who don't think the wet market was the source but there is no consensus anywhere on what the source was or was not.

You can check out my entire interview with Dr. Scott Gottlieb on CNN.com.

And up ahead on this Sunday night Britney Spears' fight to free herself from her father's control. Her former tour manager reveals the kind of scrutiny she was under right down to what she was allowed to read. Also ahead, the beginning of fall is turning to be a lot like the end

of summer for President Biden. More Americans now giving him a thumbs down. How does he right the ship?

Scott Jennings and Natasha Alford will join me next to break it all down.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:26:39]

BROWN: Well, President Biden enjoyed a growing economy and a slowing pandemic in the first few months of his presidency, but now crises abroad and at home are beginning to take a toll. His job approval rating has fallen to 45 percent. That is a big drop from even just a month ago when the figure was in the mid to low 50s.

To discuss why, we turn to our political panel. Scott Jennings is a former special assistant to President George W. Bush and Natasha Alford is a senior correspondent at TheGrio, a digital news platform with an African-American perspective.

Great to see you both on this Sunday night. Let's kick it off by talking about the week ahead, Natasha, I want to start with you. Talk about the president's signature spending plan which is hanging in the balance on Capitol Hill. How pivotal is this next week for Democrats and President Biden's legacy?

NATASHA ALFORD, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, this week is everything. I mean, there's so many questions. Right? Can he finally get a domestic policy win? Can we avert shutdown? Is he able to sort of wrangle the Democratic Party behind the scenes? And I think that for voters, you know, there's always this grace period. Right? Where they accept and understand that a president has inherited, you know, a series of crises from the prior administration.

But that grace period is over and so voters are very much watching to see what President Biden can get done and he's promised so much, and I think that also, you know, it just sort of raises the stakes for what happens this week. And I think it's very telling that we're starting to see some of those approval numbers slip because the faith is sort of shaking right now based on these back-to-back crises we've seen.

BROWN: And let's talk about one of those. You have the Biden administration, Scott, coming under fire this past week as it struggled to contain an influx of Haitian migrants at the southern border. At one point there were nearly 15,000 camped out under a bridge in Texas. The area has cleared out now. But how damaging was this episode to the president, Scott?

SCOTT JENNINGS, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Well, I think this immigration issue has been damaging for several months now. I mean, the fact is Donald Trump in his term had the border under control. And Democrats raged against his method --

BROWN: I wouldn't say he had it under control. (CROSSTALK)

BROWN: I mean, there were record numbers under President Trump's watch as well, but go ahead. I mean, obviously this was a different situation.

JENNINGS: I mean, I'm going to -- well, the situation is the border is out of the control. We have -- I mean, you can turn on your television and watch it. There's people running across the border. Thousands of people camped out. The Biden folks had a different message than the Trump folks and, you know, you can see what the results are and as Natasha said, at some point the grace period ends and you own these issues and they own this right now.

Kamala Harris, his vice president, owns it because Joe Biden supposedly put her in charge of it, and so I think that has been an extremely damaging thing because it's one of those things we can all see on television. It's like January 6th. You know, these things that unfold before our eyes, there's no way to spin it. You can see the disaster, the failure that's unfolding. And the response to it frankly has been and misguided, and so I do think that's one of them.

I don't think that's the main issue, though. Frankly, Pamela, I think inflation, I think COVID, I think Afghanistan, of all three taken a serious toll, but certainly immigration is in the mix as well.

[19:30:04]

BROWN: I want to bring in Natasha into this discussion now because you mentioned the Vice President. And Natasha, obviously this is such a difficult assignment to take on immigration. It's something that both Republican and Democratic Presidents have grappled with.

But the reality is, this was the assignment she is given. She has not been to the border yet. I was speaking to a Democratic Congressman last night, Congressman Cuellar, who said she just needs to show up just to inspire confidence.

Do you think it's a mistake she hasn't been to the border yet?

ALFORD: Well, I certainly think that all eyes are on the Vice President, and that there is this sort of added responsibility with her being a woman of color, and the way that we are seeing many of these sort of racist narratives playing out, again, with immigration.

And so there is an expectation for many of the voters who put her in office that she would speak not just as a representative of the United States, but as a person who said that she stood for so many of these communities.

Now, we know that there was an event that happened with the Congressional Black Caucus, and many of the attendees said that Vice President Harris was very open to hearing their feedback that she encouraged them to continue speaking out. But that sort of behind the scenes, you know, Washington sort of insider conversation about it is different than what the public is seeing. And, you know, let's talk about the fact that President Biden had very

sharp words for the Border Patrol agents, you know, and these startling images that we saw of them treating Haitian immigrants as less than human, right, and yet, the policy that he is enacting is a reflection of the Trump era. We're talking about Title 42 and saying that you're turning people away because of COVID. Right?

So again, there's a disconnect there. You're talking tough about, you know, bringing American values back and respecting people and letting them see this country for what it is supposed to be, which is welcoming, but then the policies are reflecting one in which we close the doors on people in need.

So, I think a lot of people are angry on every side of the political aisle, and certainly the Vice President has a role to play in that dissatisfaction.

BROWN: And of course, it's so complicated, too, because you have asylum law, and it's extremely narrow. You have to be part of a persecuted -- persecuted for being part of a certain social group. So even if you're fleeing a country that has violence or economic issues, that doesn't qualify you to seek asylum.

So there is a lot of play here as well. But I want to ask you, Scott, about the former President Trump holding this rally in Georgia yesterday and something he said caught a lot of people by surprise. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Stacey Abrams who still has not conceded, and that's okay, Stacey, would you like to take his place? It's okay with me.

Having her I think might be better than having your existing Governor, if you want to know what is better.

It might very well be better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: What's does this say, Scott, about the leader of your party, that he has such a personal grievance against the Republican because he stood up for the election, which was fair and free, that he wants a Democrat to take his job. What does that tell you?

JENNINGS: Well, you know, I was on a road trip this weekend. So I had like -- and I was driving through Georgia and I actually drove through the big line of cars to get into the Trump rally, it just so happened in my path, and a lot of time to ruminate on this, and it reminded me of what he did in January, when he told all the Republicans there was voter fraud, so don't worry about voting and they didn't, and now we have Chuck Schumer in charge of the Senate.

I sort of get the feeling that Donald Trump is so personally embarrassed that a Republican presidential candidate which he was last Georgia, that he doesn't want anyone else to win there either, be they a Senate candidate or a gubernatorial candidate. And it's just terrible.

Brian Kemp has done a pretty good job and most Republicans that I know down there think that is true for him. To try to sabotage another Republican in Georgia the way he sabotaged our two Republican senators is outrageous. People ought to take note of it, that if you're going to try to be the head of a political party, you've got to be for the advancement of that party, which is more than just the advancement of your own, you know, personal, you know, emotional problems.

And so I mean, it's terrible. I've got a lot of text messages from Republicans in Georgia about it this weekend, and they're all you know, pretty PO'ed, frankly.

BROWN: Is that right?

JENNINGS: So, I think Brian Kemp survived, but Donald Trump's not helping.

BROWN: Donald Trump is helping in your view, and he is certainly not going away anytime soon, it appears.

Scott Jennings, Natasha Alford, thank you both for coming on, sharing some of your time with us on this Sunday night.

And we just want to update our viewers, we have just learned from Speaker Nancy Pelosi's office that a vote on the infrastructure bill is set to take place on Thursday, after hedging on specific timing earlier today and after she committed last week to holding the vote on Monday.

So an update for you there.

Well, Herschel Walker looks to win in politics like he won on the football field, but running on the campaign trail is not like running on the gridiron. CNN's Michael Warren joins us next with an inside look at the legendary running back's different political strategy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:39:54]

BROWN: With the midterm elections still more than a year away, Herschel Walker, the football star turned Senate candidate from Georgia is wasting no time showing voters that he stands with former President Donald Trump.

[09:50:07]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HERSCHEL WALKER (R), GEORGIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: We've been together for a long time, and I said it a long time ago, a great man, great leader and I want to be a leader like him when I get to that Senate seat to show everyone I love America. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: But when it comes to campaigning, the 1982 Heisman Trophy winner is using a different playbook to get his political legs under him. Be seen, not heard or not be asked the tough questions.

CNN's Michael Warren joins me now. And Michael, you make this fascinating point about Walker at a recent campaign event and this is what you said. You said, "Herschel Walker flashes a megawatt smile and shook hands with adoring Georgia Bulldog football fans before the team's recent home game. And then he did what he is most famous for: he ran like hell."

So walk us through his aversion to tough questions and why he is hitching everything to someone who lost Georgia?

MICHAEL WARREN, CNN REPORTER: Well, it's an interesting campaign strategy, and it's one of first do no harm on behalf of the Walker Campaign. They want to keep their candidate laying low, because this primary is really Herschel Walker's to lose. He is really the only major candidate in the race at this moment.

He is very popular in the State of Georgia, well-known, and he has that Donald Trump endorsement. So, the campaign around him doesn't want to screw that up. They want to keep him in this sort of bubbles of hermetically sealed events like the Trump rally, like the Georgia football game, where he's going to be around adoring fans, he's not going to have to answer questions, particularly from the local press.

He is doing media interviews primarily with friendly outlets like FOX News. So, that's the idea to keep him away and keep him from having to answer questions about his background, about his views on the issues.

What has Republicans in Georgia worried is exactly what you asked about this hugging of Donald Trump. Georgia is a 50/50 state. Mitch McConnell is looking at a 50/50 Senate. He wants to take back control of the Senate next year. He needs to do that in Georgia.

A lot of Republicans are worried because Donald Trump did lose Georgia. It's a big problem with the suburban voters around Atlanta. Herschel Walker may be popular among football fans in Georgia, and there are a lot of them, but in terms of politics, Republicans look at this as too big of a risk.

BROWN: So he is well-positioned to win the primary, but then there's the question of the general, and do you -- I mean, how long can he get away without confronting and talking about or answering some questions about his troubled past?

WARREN: Well, in the primary, a lot of Republicans are worried that he is not going to get sort of beaten up a little bit by answering these questions, and that a lot of potential problems could crop up in this general election if he runs against Raphael Warnock, the Democrat. That is a something that the Walker campaign says they can basically get away with through the primary. It is eight months until the primary in May, the general election

again, another story. They think you could hear it from what Walker said last night. He is trying sort of unity message, try to say let's come together, running really as a general election candidate now.

But there are a lot of allegations out there. CNN has reported on some of these allegations just a couple of weeks ago, a woman in Texas in 2002, who accused Herschel Walker of stalking her, threatening her, other allegations that are out there.

It is going to be a problem a lot of Republicans worry about and they wonder if Herschel Walker is really ready to answer those questions. They look at this strategy and think that's not a sign of confidence.

BROWN: All right, thanks for bringing the latest there, and from Georgia Michael Warren.

Well, Paul Fronczak was 10 years old when he found out that he was kidnapped as a baby, sparking this lifelong search to find out who he really is. When we come back, Paul shares his unbelievable life story with us. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:48:18]

BROWN: When Paul J. Fronczak was a boy, he discovered he was kidnapped as a newborn and reunited with his family nearly two years later, or so he thought.

As an adult, Paul started doing some more research and discovered that everything he thought he knew about himself was a lie. Now, the new CNN Film, "The Lost Sons" explores Paul's journey to find himself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL FRONCZAK, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, "THE LOST SONS": My mom was upstairs, my dad was at work. I was 10 years old and I was snooping around the house for Christmas presents. And I thought this is a great time to go in the crawlspace because it's -- I know it's a great place to hide presents. And I saw a bunch of boxes.

I thought this is it, the big score, right?

It was just like papers and things. It is not a present. I opened another one, a bunch of cards, more letters, and newspaper clippings. I'm like, "This isn't Christmas."

So, I got to look at one. It said, "500 search for kidnapped baby." Another one, "Fronczak baby still missing."

So I started reading it and it said "Paul Joseph Fronczak kidnapped from Michael Reese Hospital." And I saw a picture of my mom and dad. And they looked really, really sad and heartbroken and distraught.

I thought, "Wait, that's me. What happened?" (END VIDEO CLIP)

[19:50:03]

BROWN: And joining us now is the man at the heart of the story, Paul J. Fronczak. Paul, that is such a tease.

I mean, I really -- I cannot wait to see this coming up. There are so many twists and turns. It's an incredible story. Take us back to the beginning. What went through your mind when you first heard that you were the Fronczak baby kidnapped at birth from the hospital?

FRONCZAK: Well, firstly, thank you, Pamela, for having me. It's a privilege to be here. When I first found out about the kidnapping, at first, I thought it was a really cool story. I'm like, I'm a 10-year- old kid, I find a story about a kidnapping and I was all excited about it.

And then I go upstairs and tell my mom and show her the clippings and she was just furious that I was snooping around the house. She looked at me and she said, "You were kidnapped. We found you. We love you. And we won't talk about it again."

And I was like, "Wow, I can't believe this." So we never talked about it again. But I never ever forgot.

BROWN: So then, what prompted you to decide to do a little more research on yourself? And what did you find without giving it all away?

FRONCZAK: Basically when I had my daughter, my daughter, Emma and the doctor asked me the question they always ask, what's your medical history? So I spotted off the thing that I was always told about my family, and I started thinking, "Really? What if I'm not Paul? What am I doing to my daughter if this isn't really my medical history?" So, I thought maybe it's time to find out for sure.

BROWN: So had you ever considered that maybe you weren't the kidnapped Fronczak boy? Did you ever question your place in or your connection to your family?

FRONCZAK: You know, I had questions growing up. I mean, everyone has questions. "This can't be my family. I'm living with these people," like, "They're not like me." But in my case, I really had a reason to question it.

But you know, your family says that you are a child, so you just -- you go along with it because that's what you do. It is only when I got older, I started realizing things weren't really -- I looked like nothing like my brother or my mom and dad.

I was drawn to things that I wasn't exposed to like music and acting. And so I started thinking, you know, "How can I be this person when I'm totally different than everyone else in my family?"

BROWN: And what was that like for you being on this journey for so many years, trying to find out the truth about who you really are? Again, we don't want to give it all away, but tell us what it has been like for you personally going through this?

FRONCZAK: You know, I urge anyone that is not sure about their identity to start their own journey, but it comes at a high cost. I mean, I lost a lot. But I would do it again and again without hesitation because once you know something isn't right, you can't live a lie because living a lie isn't living at all.

BROWN: All right, we will leave it there. Paul J. Fronczak, thank you so much. We're looking forward to seeing this tonight.

The all-new CNN film "The Lost Sons" premieres tonight at nine Eastern, only on CNN.

Well as early as Wednesday, a judge could end Britney Spears's 13-year conservatorship. During recent court hearings, the popstar has detailed what the arrangement has been like for her. Her battle for freedom is the focus of a new CNN special report and here is a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She said the conservatorship was abusive.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She said she's been given lithium against her will.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She says she's not allowed to remove her IUD contraceptive from her own body even though she wants to have another child.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was absolutely shocking. A huge bombshell. Nobody expected this, not even her fans.

RONAN FARROW, JOURNALIST: It was one of the most arresting things I've heard in my career as a journalist.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Ronan Farrow was listening live as Spears testified virtually. She pleaded for the end of her court ordered conservatorship, the arrangement that has been controlling her life and finances for more than 13 years.

FARROW: She was lucid, she was furious. She was cogently acknowledging that she might have some mental health issues to confront, but also laying out a detailed case for how she was exploited. She used the word "enslaved."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): That audio testimony has now been sealed by the judge, but the impact has been profound.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She spoke so quickly. It was almost like she had to get everything out as quickly as she could because she was afraid they were going to take the microphone away.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BROWN: The CNN special report "Toxic: Britney Spears' Battle for

Freedom" airs at the top of the hour right here on CNN.

And that's all for tonight, but before we go we have some breaking news for our CNN weekend family.

A huge congratulations to our weekend Washington warrior. Leslie Bentz on the arrival of her beautiful son Henry Bentz Quintrell. We can report that everyone is happy and healthy.

And we will note, a fun facts here. Leslie is a second generation CNN journalist so we look forward to Henry joining the team around 2043. Does that sound right? So cute.

[19:55:08]

BROWN: Well, welcome to the world, Henry. And I'll see you again next weekend.

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