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COVID Vaccine Timeline For Children?; Vaccine Holdouts; Democrats Under Pressure on Capitol Hill. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired September 29, 2021 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Ana Cabrera picks up our coverage right now.

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello, and thanks for being with me. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

Washington running out of money, Congress running out of time, and the White House inching closer to a political disaster. Lawmakers now have less than 35 hours to prevent a partial government shutdown and avoid a debt default. That would happen next month, which could likely be catastrophic to the U.S. economy.

Minutes ago, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi says the House will move forward with legislation to suspend the debt limit. And that is just one of several interconnected and incredibly urgent priorities on Congress' plate right now.

Also on the agenda, the bipartisan infrastructure bill that is scheduled for a House vote tomorrow, for the moment. There's also the massive $3.5 trillion spending bill, the biggest in the nation's history, dealing with the climate, education, health care, and more.

President Biden is behind closed doors today pressuring fellow Democrats who are still not on board with that bill.

CNN's Lauren Fox is on Capitol Hill and Phil Mattingly is at the White House for us.

Lauren, let's focus on this smaller infrastructure bill. That's the one that already passed the Senate. Speaker Pelosi wanted the House to vote on that bill tomorrow, but Democratic Senator Joe Manchin may have just derailed that plan. What happened?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is what happened.

Earlier this morning, the House speaker, coming out of her whip meeting, essentially walked away and said what she needs to see before this vote tomorrow is some kind of agreement on legislative text, exactly what is going to be inside that bigger $3.5 trillion proposal, before she is able to get the votes and bring to the floor that smaller bipartisan infrastructure bill that already passed the Senate.

Well, that is a really heavy lift, because you have just about 24 hours before the bipartisan infrastructure bill is supposed to be on the floor. And, so far, there has been no indication from Sinema or Manchin that they are even going to publicly announce what their top- line number would be for how much they would be willing to spend on that bigger bill.

And that's before you get into other sticking points, like what to do about the expansion of health care or tax increases, how big to make some of the benefits in that larger bill.

I think that that has been the sticking point all along, and there's no sign anything will change over the next 24 hours. So, Manchin was asked directly about what Pelosi said this morning. And he said, that's not going to happen. We're not going to get there. He said it flat out.

And I think that that is just a clear indication of how dug in both sides are. Everyone is expecting that the other side is going to blink. And at this point, there's really no sign that that is going to happen. So, the big question mark, will House Speaker Nancy Pelosi bring that infrastructure bill to the floor tomorrow, as she promised some of her moderates?

Or will she be forced to wait again? Because, as the speaker has said, she doesn't like to put things on the floor, bring legislation to the floor if she doesn't actually have the votes to pass it. So that is the sticking point that she and other Democratic leaders are in going into this big vote tomorrow.

CABRERA: It's huge not only for the American people, but also for the White House. We know President Biden canceled a trip today in order to help try to broker a deal of some sort.

Phil, you learned this morning that one of the other senators who hasn't been on board with that bigger reconciliation package, Senator Kyrsten Sinema of Arizona, is right now meeting with top White House negotiators yet again. Tell us about this.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, look, I think this is a great window into the moment that Lauren so eloquently laid out that the White House faces here.

They need something from those two moderate senators, Senators Manchin and Sinema, to be able to give to progressives, to show to progressives to allow that vote tomorrow to actually pass, to have the votes to move forward.

The effort they have put in with Senator Sinema, the Arizona moderate, over the course of the last 24 hours is something that I think is almost unparalleled, based on what I have seen over the course of the last several years. She met with President Biden for a little more than an hour in the Oval Office.

Then she came back to the White House twice yesterday to meet on the staff level, going through very specific policy issues, I'm told, and making clear other concerns that she had. Now she's meeting once again with the president's top legislative advisers and some of his policy officials to continue that process.

And the effort from the White House side of things is basically to address every single thing she brings up in an effort to get her comfortable. And here's why. The message that Senator Sinema delivered to President Biden in that private meeting yesterday, I'm told, is essentially, I'm not there yet. There's more work to do.

That is why you have seen the staff follow up. That is why you have seen such an urgent effort from the White House.

Look, Ana, even if the bill fails tomorrow, there's no sense inside the White House that this is over. It's very clear how necessary this is for the president's entire domestic agenda. They will continue to negotiate. But they want to see if they can hit that deadline. And in order to do so, they need some kind of commitment, some type of framework they can show progressives from Senators Manchin and Sinema.

[13:05:03]

CABRERA: OK, thank you so much, Phil Mattingly and Lauren Fox.

We will check back with you if there is a new development, because it is fast-moving.

And stay with us. We are going to speak with a House Democrat who is in the middle of all of this. He's a member of the Progressive Caucus. So stay tuned later this hour.

Trillions of dollars is what we're talking about, and a trickle down of benefits for millions of Americans. So what can nearly $5 trillion of your money actually buy?

CNN's Tom Foreman walks us through that.

What's at stake here, Tom?

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it can buy a lot, if it has a chance to. The question is, will it?

Take a look at the basic outlay here, what we're talking about here, the key bills at stake here. This is a traffic jam, a collision between the infrastructure bill at $1.2 trillion, Build Back Better bill at $3.5 trillion, stopgap spending, the debt limit suspension. All of this happening at once is the problem.

Look specifically at the infrastructure bill, because this is something that has a lot of support on both sides of the aisle, or at least it has been. And, honestly, both parties have talked for years about needing to do this, improvement for roads and bridges, improving the power grid, high-speed Internet to many places that don't have it, train improvement, clean water, public transit, airports, environmental remediation, ports, and, looking forward, electric vehicle chargers.

All of this is in the infrastructure bill. This is something, without question, Ana, that many people in Washington again for years and years have said they want passed, and they have the votes to pass, but only in theory right now, Ana.

CABRERA: And this infrastructure bill is just a bargaining chip, essentially, right now to the much larger reconciliation spending bill.

FOREMAN: Yes.

CABRERA: So what's in that one?

FOREMAN: That's why it's in theory, because it is a bargaining chip, as you noted.

The Build Back Better plan, which is the cornerstone of the Biden agenda moving forward, has a lot of things in it that a lot of progressives really like, universal pre-K, child care support, more money for community colleges, Pell Grants, paid maternity leave, child tax credits, climate measures, reduce drug costs, Obamacare subsidies, aid for seniors on Medicare.

This is a lot of stuff that Democrats really like, a lot of stuff Republicans really don't like. So what we have is this push-pull right now, where you have those who are saying, yes, we might want the infrastructure bill, but we won't give it to you unless you guarantee us that we can work on this.

That's really the problem. Move forward, what does the public think about it? I will tell you, quite simply, the public thinks that this is a pretty good idea. They would like to do it on both measures. But that doesn't mean that lawmakers are yet on board -- Ana.

CABRERA: Yes, we can see it's about 50 percent support both of these measures, much more than those who oppose.

Tom Foreman, I appreciate it. Thanks for laying it all out.

All of this as the pandemic continues to amplify vulnerabilities in American society and the U.S. economy. Today, though, brand-new numbers from New York that prove vaccine mandates work.

Right now, health care workers in New York are required to be vaccinated. New York says that, as of Monday night, when the vaccine mandate officially went into effect, 92 percent of hospital staff, 92 percent of nursing home staff and 89 percent of adult care facility staff had received at least one dose of a COVID vaccine.

And consider that, a week ago, all of these numbers were in the 80s. So we're talking about a significant jump in vaccinations as this mandate drew closer. But there are still holdouts willing to risk their jobs over the mandate.

CNN's Miguel Marquez sat down with two of them.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At some point, push is going to come to shove and they will say, you must be vaccinated or you will not have a job.

STEPHANIE TOUCHET, REFUSING VACCINE: I will not be vaccinated.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): Health care workers Donna Schmidt and Stephanie Touchet: are refusing the COVID-19 vaccine, no matter what.

(on camera): Do either of you have a job today?

TOUCHET: Currently, I am employed.

MARQUEZ: And do you have a job?

DONNA SCHMIDT, REFUSING VACCINE: I do have a job. I'm actually on a medical leave for a surgical procedure I had.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): Both expect they won't have a job for long. Both don't trust the vaccine and its possible side effects. Both have requested religious exemptions.

(on camera): What religion are you?

TOUCHET: Catholic.

MARQUEZ: Catholic. And even though the pope got vaccinated and says vaccines are fine, and we should be getting them, that doesn't work for you?

TOUCHET: I feel he's a hypocrite.

My whole life...

MARQUEZ: This is God's messenger on Earth. This is the bishop of Rome.

TOUCHET: He is. He was elected to that position. However, he's not abiding by the Bible.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): Both say they would gladly test for COVID on a weekly basis, instead of getting the vaccine. That's not enough for the state of New York.

GOV. KATHY HOCHUL (D-NY): You need to be assured that the person taking care of you is not going to give COVID to you or your newborn.

MARQUEZ: Donna Schmidt works in a neonatal ICU.

(on camera): Do you worry about giving something COVID or anything else even to a trial that's in your care?

[13:10:03]

SCHMIDT: No, because we're all required to wear and use PPE. We're trained professionals. We know how to use it properly.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): Both believe COVID-19 is real, but don't believe the statistics when it comes to reporting COVID deaths and whether the vaccine is effective.

(on camera): The number of people who are hospitalized and die that are vaccinated is extremely low, compared to those who are dying by the thousands every week of COVID-19.

TOUCHET: That's a misconception.

(CROSSTALK)

MARQUEZ: I have seen them myself. I have talked to them myself. Thousands of people are dying from COVID-19 every week in this country.

TOUCHET: Here's the thing. There's several hundreds of thousands of people that were put on hospice five months before COVID came. They had brain tumors, they had lung cancer, they had COPD, they had other elements, illnesses, and yet on their actual death certificate, they deemed it that it was per COVID.

MARQUEZ: You can't even accept that the vaccines work?

SCHMIDT: No, I'm not convinced that they work yet.

MARQUEZ: You neither?

TOUCHET: No, sir.

SCHMIDT: No, because there's so much suppressed science out there globally.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): Both women, who got COVID-19, feel betrayed. A year ago, people cheered them. Today, they feel their options for a livelihood are being ripped away.

(on camera): So what's next for you two?

TOUCHET: And that's the number one thing that frustrates me the most is that we were all together, we were all united, and then, all of a sudden, these mandates come out, and then they're fearful of losing their jobs, and they're being told, oh, this is safe, and you're in the wrong.

SCHMIDT: I believe the fabric of our civilized free society is truly at a precipice. And when I lay my head down, not only at night, but at the end of my life, if I'm given a moment, I want to know and I want my descendants to know that I did everything that I could and that I fought for what we believe in, for what I know to be true and right.

And if that costs me everything, so be it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: Our thanks to Miguel Marquez for that report.

We have this just into CNN, the NBA announcing that it will withhold pay for unvaccinated players who miss games due to local vaccine mandates. The NBA had warned the New York Knicks, the Brooklyn Nets and the Golden State Warriors that vaccine protocols set by their home cities would prohibit their players from participating in home games in New York City and San Francisco if they were not vaccinated or exempted.

The city's vaccination policies do not apply to players from visiting teams, however, who compete at those arenas.

The King is no longer on the fence, LeBron James telling reporters that he is now vaccinated after initially being a skeptic. Ahead, what changed his mind at a time when vaccination rates are falling fast?

Plus: from harassing female staffers to playing tough on camera with Vladimir Putin, the former White House press secretary and chief of staff to Melania Trump Stephanie Grisham unveiling a list of damning claims in a new book. And CNN just got an early copy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:17:40]

CABRERA: America's surgeon general says, once the FDA green-lights Pfizer's vaccine for 5-to-11-year-olds, the U.S. is ready to roll, but are parents?

Once authorized, new polling shows 44 percent say, yes, they will vaccinate their kids; 42 percent, however, say they're unlikely to do so.

Let's bring in our experts. Dr. Leana Wen is an emergency physician and former Baltimore health commissioner. She's also the author of "Lifelines: A Doctor's Journey in the Fight for Public Health." Also with us, Dr. Paul Offit, director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. He's also a member of the FDA Vaccine Advisory Committee and is the co-inventor of the rotavirus vaccine, which the CDC recommends as part of a child's routine immunizations.

Thank you both. As always, it's good to see you.

Dr. Offit, I will start with you, because we know the data for 5-to- 11-year-olds was just submitted by Pfizer yesterday. And you're on this committee of FDA advisers.

Can you give us any insight into what that data shows and any update on a timeline for possible authorization? Are we talking Halloween, Thanksgiving? What should be our expectations?

DR. PAUL OFFIT, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: So, the advisory committee hasn't seen those data yet. Looking forward to seeing it, also looking forward to seeing the FDA is review of those data.

The kind of questions that we're going to be asking was, how did they come to that dose? So we know that the dose is 10 micrograms per dose, which is a third of the dose that was given to older adolescents and adults? How did they come to that? What exactly dose-ranging studies have they done?

And then look at every one of those children to see to make sure that those who got the vaccine that the vaccine was safe, that it induced an immune response consistently, so not just in 85 percent or 90 percent, but in all the children who got that vaccine, that they had a vigorous immune response.

But, mostly, the question that we try and answer is, would we give this vaccine to our own children or grandchildren or family members? And I think, when we see the data, we will know. So, when you talked about how, whatever, about 44 percent of people wouldn't give the vaccine yet, I think that makes sense.

I think they should wait until they see the data before they make a decision about giving the vaccine.

CABRERA: But, Dr. Wen, I know you have been pretty vocal that you're ready to get your children vaccinated as soon as they're eligible.

And, obviously, that's awaiting the authorization. But are you surprised? Are you surprised by how many parents right now are unlikely to do so?

[13:20:01]

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: I'm not surprised, Ana, but I'm also not that concerned either, because we know that there is always going to be a group that's -- that wants to be first in line.

They're the early adopters. As soon as the vaccine is out, they want to sign up their kids. They probably signed themselves up initially. There's another group that's on the opposite extreme who will just not get their kids vaccinated. If parents are not vaccinated, they're anti-vaxxers, unlikely that they're going to get their kids vaccinated either.

There's a huge group in the middle. Some are going to wait and see for a little bit. Others need an additional push, for example, if vaccines are required to do school sports, or if there's something that comes with getting vaccinated, for example, if an entire class is vaccinated, maybe all the kids can remove their masks.

Or if a child is vaccinated, they no longer have to quarantine every time they're exposed. I think something like that will give a lot of those parents in the middle who aren't really sure the additional incentive to get their kids vaccinated.

CABRERA: And just quickly, Dr. Offit, back to the timeline. What is your sense?

OFFIT: Hard to know.

I can tell you that the FDA has asked us to set aside a number of dates in October presumably to review these data. But we will know when we know. I mean, hopefully, when we get -- once we get the data and review it, usually, we make a recommendation. If you assume the recommendation was yes, usually, within two days, the FDA accepts that recommendation.

Within a few days, the CDC then looks at the same data and makes a recommendation. So, once the process starts, it all should be completed really within about a week and then children would be able to get these vaccines, hopefully by Halloween. But, again, I'm guessing.

CABRERA: OK, when we talk about the hesitant right now, we know there still are about 70 million adults and older children who are eligible currently who have not gotten vaccinated yet.

One very high-profile holdout was LeBron James, as we discussed moments ago. He just announced he is now vaccinated after initially being very skeptical. And here's part of what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEBRON JAMES, LOS ANGELES LAKERS: But after doing my research and things of that nature, I felt like it was best suited for not only me, but for my family and for my friends. And that's why I decided to do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Dr. Wen, I have seen a lot of mixed reactions to those remarks. What's your response to hearing how he made this decision? And what message did he send?

WEN: It sends a strong message because of who he is.

There are a lot of people who are looking at our athletes, our movie stars, et cetera, as influencers. Their opinions do matter. And I also think it matters that he was someone who was skeptical before, and he's talking about the change. That makes him a lot more relatable to some people who are holdouts, because they might not find someone who got the vaccine really early to be as relatable.

So to hear that someone like him changed his mind -- and I do like his message that, yes, it's about protecting himself, but also about his family, his friends and people around him too.

CABRERA: And, Dr. Offit, there's a large new study just today we learned of. One in three COVID-19 survivors, it shows, still have symptoms three to six months after infection, including breathing problems, abdominal symptoms such as pain and diarrhea, fatigue, anxiety and depression.

Now, this study, again, it was big. It was among 270,000 people recovering from COVID. And it found the effects were slightly more in those who had been hospitalized and in women. What's your reaction to these lingering symptoms?

OFFIT: Right.

I think one of the characteristics of this virus that is particularly awful is that it actually causes you to make an immune response to the lining of your own blood vessels, causing inflammation of blood vessels, otherwise known as vasculitis.

So, really, every organ can be affected. Not only the heart, but the brain, lungs, liver, kidneys can all be affected by this virus. And I think that's probably at the heart of this. It's this vasculitis, this inflammation of the blood vessels, because every organ in your in your body has a blood supply. Every organ is potentially infected.

I think, frankly, if you asked me at the beginning of this pandemic what scared me the most about getting COVID before there was a vaccine, it was that. It was the capacity of this virus to induce your own immune system to essentially react against your own lining of your blood vessels, which causes vascular damage.

It's frightening. I know of no other respiratory virus that does this, and it's probably the most compelling reason to get a vaccine.

CABRERA: Exactly. Let that be another reason for people who say, well, maybe I won't die from COVID. But they don't want to deal with these symptoms.

Dr. Paul Offit, Dr. Leana Wen, really appreciate you both. Thanks for being here with us.

The stakes couldn't be higher for Democrats. And the only ones standing in their way are in their own party, the battle between moderates and progressives threatening to sink the Biden agenda.

A man in the middle of it all joins us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:29:41]

CABRERA: Back to the showdown on Capitol Hill and the chance that members of President Biden's own party could tank his agenda.

Right now, progressive Democrats in the House are threatening to vote against Biden's trillion-dollar bipartisan infrastructure bill, not because they don't agree with it, but because they want assurances, assurances that Senate moderates Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema will support a second, even larger bill, the $3.5 trillion spending package.