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Japan With a New Leader; Top Officials Faces Lawmakers; U.K. Recovering from Fuel Shortage; Ariel Henry Denies Involvement in Jovenel Moise's Killing; WHO Employees Ousted. Aired 3-4a ET

Aired September 29, 2021 - 03:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[03:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR (on camera): Hello, and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Rosemary Church.

Just ahead here on CNN Newsroom. Japan's ruling party has just decided who will be the country's next prime minister. We're live in Tokyo.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK MILLEY, U.S. CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: I think one of the other senators said it very well. It was a logistical success but a strategic failure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH (on camera): America's top military officials with blunt assessments of the Afghanistan withdrawal as they face tough questions from lawmakers.

Plus, why South Korea is downplaying the importance of the North's latest test launch.

And we begin with the breaking news this hour.

Japan's ruling party now has a new leader. The person who will ultimately become Japan's next prime minister. Fumio Kishida defeated Taro Kono to become the president of Japan's Liberal Democratic Party.

And CNN's Selina Wang is following this for us from Tokyo. She joins us live. Goo to see you, Selina.

So now that Fumio Kishida has won and will ultimately of course as we mentioned become Japan's next prime minister. What all do we need to know about him?

SELINA WANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this was, Rosemary, one of the most unpredictable LDP races in decades, and ultimately Fumio Kishida as the choice to be the leader of the LDP virtually sure to be Japan's next prime minister shows that Japan's LDP's political elites still prevail over public opinion. Fumio Kishida was a former foreign minister under Prime Minister Shinzo Abe. He is known as a moderate liberal, a consensus builder but he has lackluster public support. He campaigned on narrowing the income gap, as well as proposing a hefty economic recovery package. But he is really an establishment choice, Rosemary. He is seen as more of the same as status quo.

Now compare that to Taro Kono who really had the public's backing. He's known as this political maverick who isn't afraid to speak his mind, to tear down bureaucratic barriers, to get things done. He's also he speaks perfect English. He's known for communicating with the public on Twitter. He's got more than two million Twitter followers.

But ultimately, analysts were expecting Kishida to come out on top because Taro Kono's reputation as this outspoken political maverick ultimately did not fit with the LDP's conservative heavyweights. And Kishida is seen as that as stable and safe choice. Rosemary?

CHURCH: And of course, Japan is the world's third-largest economy. It faces a multitude of challenges. Kishida will be the country's third prime minister in 18 months. So, what does he intend to do when it comes to the economy and the pandemic?

WANG: Well, his first priority is, as you say, are going to be dealing with the pandemic, Japan's stagnant economy, increasing tensions between Japan and China. He has proposed a large spending package to try and stimulate the economy which has been hard-hit by the pandemic.

Unlike his predecessors when it comes to China, he is in support of boosting Japan-U.S. alliance, as well as working with allies to deal with growing risks from China and security and military areas.

He's also going to have to face long-standing issues like labor shortages and Japan's demographic challenges and aging population. But Rosemary, it's unclear how long-lasting his impact is going to be. The big question is, is Japan entering a period of revolving premiership since before the time of former Prime Minister Shinzo Abe Japan turned through six prime ministers in six years.

So, we'll have to see how long Kishida can last.

CHURCH: Yes. That's a very important point, isn't it? Selina Wang, thank you so much bringing us up-to-date on that breaking news. I appreciate it.

Well, the United States top general faces a public grilling over Afghanistan's quick collapse, as well as his actions near the end of the Trump administration. Mark Milley and other Pentagon leaders spoke about times they disagreed with decisions from U.S. Presidents Donald Trump and Joe Biden.

The generals were also pressed on the chaotic evacuation withdrawal date and whether a complete pullout was really the right move.

CNN's Oren Liebermann has the details. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The Pentagon's top military leaders making clear their views on Afghanistan were heard but not followed.

I recommended that we maintain 2,500 troops in Afghanistan. I also have a view that the withdrawal of those forces would lead inevitably to the collapse of the Afghan military forces, and eventually, the Afghan government.

[03:05:06]

SEN. JIM INHOFE (R-OK): Yes, I understand hat. And General Milley, I've seen you agree with that in terms of the recommendation of 2,500?

MILLEY: What I said in my opening statement and the memoranda that I wrote back in the fall of 2020 remained consistent and I do agree with that.

LIEBERMANN: Republicans seized on the contradiction between those views and what President Joe Biden said in August about the advice he was given by military leaders.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, CHIEF ANCHOR, ABC NEWS: They wanted you to keep about 2,500.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: No, they didn't. It was split. That wasn't true. That wasn't true.

STEPHANOPOULOS: They didn't tell you that they wanted troops to stay?

BIDEN: No. Not at -- not in terms of whether we were going to get out in a time frame all troops. They didn't argue against that.

SEN. TOM COTTON (R-AK): Is that true?

LIEBERMANN: Republican Senator Tom Cotton went after Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin on this point.

COTTON: It's a simple question, Secretary Austin. He said no single military leader advise to leave a small troop presence behind. Is that true or not? That this officer and General Miller's recommendations get to the president personally?

LLOYD AUSTIN, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: Their input was received by the president and been considered by the president for sure.

LIEBERMANN: Lawmakers grilled top military leaders on the rapid collapse of the Afghan military and the failure of the U.S. to see it coming after pulling U.S. advisors three years ago.

MILLEY: When you pull the advisers out of the units you can never -- you longer can access things like leadership and will. We can count all the planes, trucks and automobiles and cars, and machine guns, and everything else. We can count those from space and all the other kind of intel assets but you can't measure the human heart with a machine. You got to be there.

LIEBERMANN: Joint Chiefs Chairman General Mark Milley said it was an open question where an evacuation that moved 124,000 people should have begun earlier. But ultimately it was a State Department call.

SEN. DAN SULLIVAN (R-AK): You and I have discussed this. Do you -- would you use the term extraordinary success for the -- for what took place in August in Afghanistan.

MILLEY: That's the non-combatant evacuation. And I think one of the other senators said it very well. It was a logistical success but a strategic failure.

LIEBERMANN: The Pentagon knew the Afghan government and armed forces critically relied on U.S. military and financial. What's surprised everyone was the speed at which it all fell apart in a matter of days not months.

AUSTIN: Now we certainly did not plan against the collapse of a government in 11 days. We help build the state, Mr. Chairman, but we could forge a nation.

LIEBERMANN: The Biden administration defended the president's decision not to heed the advice of his generals.

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: What the American people should know is the president is always going to welcome a range of advice. He asked for candor. He asked for directness. And in any case scenario, he's not looking for a bunch of yes men and women. And what that means that ultimately, he's going to have to make the decision about what's in the best interest of the United States.

LIEBERMANN: Senator Cotton responding to learning President Biden didn't follow the military's advice.

COTTON: If all this is true, General Milley, why haven't u resigned?

MILLEY: This country doesn't generals figuring out what orders we are going to accept and do or not. That's not our job. The principle that it's being controlled by the military is absolutely it's critical to this republic.

LIEBERMANN: Milley also addressed revelations in the book "Peril" about the final days of the Trump administration. Authors Bob Woodward and Robert Costa wrote that on a phone call with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. Milley agreed that the president was crazy.

Today, Milley said he did not make that assessment.

MILLEY: That I, I'm not qualified to determine the mental health of the President of the United States.

LIEBERMANN: Milley was also worried, the authors wrote, that Trump would start a conflict China to distract from his election loss. Milley defended it to calls he had with Chinese counterpart in late October and January 8 after the capitol insurrection. MILLEY: My task time at that time was to deescalate my message again was consistent, stay calm, steady and deescalate. We are not going to attack you.

LIEBERMANN: Milley says the calls were coordinated with Trump administration officials and he personally informed Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows about the calls.

Oren Liebermann, CNN, at the Pentagon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: So, let's bring CNN's Nic Robertson who is following all of this live from Abu Dhabi. Good to see you, Nic.

So, what has been the global reaction to this hearing and the contradictions we all heard when it came to what the top military generals advised and what President Biden ultimately decided to do in Afghanistan.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: You know, there hasn't been a huge international reaction, it has little impact on what's going to happen in Afghanistan in the short term. But for the United States enemies particularly think here of Moscow and Beijing who look for weaknesses in the U.S. political structure and military structure and much of the questioning was on a partisan basis.

[03:09:55]

You know, Republicans trying to prop up, if you will, President Trump's legacy of making some of the key decisions that led to this drawdown. And Democrats trying to reassure that this wasn't President Biden's sole mistake that there were many, many other country (Inaudible) fighters.

So, I think for the United States enemies this was an object lesson and the -- and the disparity abuse within the U.S. political system and the weaknesses that therefore there implies. And I think that the United States allies, again, it shows a very similar thing that you know, there is division, deep political division which is counterproductive to the United States' national security when put on global display like this.

I think one of the, sort of, difficult things for perhaps allies to swallow and they will have had -- they will have partaken in some of the decisions and thinking in Afghanistan alongside the United States over 20 years, was this notion that, you know, only now the U.S. realizes that the Afghan national army that it built was too much in its own image to rely on high-tech equipment, to rely on systems that the Afghans wouldn't be able to own, wouldn't be able to operate in the future.

So, you know, I think for those who were partners of United States, building that army there will be a feeling that many of these lessons will, perhaps, evident a long time before they reach this final crescendo of a rapid collapse which again the swing or missed intelligence assessment that was talked about in the questioning really, you know, underscores the lack of critical intelligence being communicated to the -- to the senior chain of command.

CHURCH: And what's likely to happen in the day ahead as these military leaders undergo more questioning?

ROBERTSON: You know, what we've seen and we saw Secretary of State Antony Blinken go through the questioning and a similar sort of questioning. We see in some ways, really a repetition of the questioning, you know, the scrutiny on what was told to the president, who told it, when the president was told, was President Biden being fully frank and forthright in that ABC interview.

You know, about the information that he'd received about the military saying that he wanted or he was being advised that they should -- the United States should maintain between two and a half thousand and three and a half thousand troops in Afghanistan.

I think we can expect to see a doubling down on that particular issue, but again, splitting on partisan lines. The Democrats sort of honing to the view that this was not a Biden's making and Republicans wanting to lay blame a Biden store because this is the way to electoral success come the elections 2024.

CHURCH: All right. Nic Robertson joining us there. Many thanks. I appreciate it.

A volcano in Spain's Canary Islands has been erupting for 10 days with no end in sight but now a new threat looms over the island. Lava has reached the coast of the Atlantic Ocean and may produce toxic gases when it reacts with the water. Emergency officials have ordered people to shelter in place until the danger passes.

Thousands of people were evacuated before the lava flow destroyed hundreds of homes and banana plantations. La Palma has now been designated a disaster zone.

The British government says the U.K.'s fuel prices is easing. But long lines at the pump persist. Coming out, when drivers can expect petrol stations to run at full capacity again.

Plus, Haiti's prime minister is dismissing accusations he's hampered the probe into the late president's murder. CNN's exclusive interview with the leader. That's next.

[03:15:00]

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CHURCH: Welcome back, everyone. Well, U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson says the country's fuel supply shortage is beginning to ease. The petrol retailer's associations say just over a third of its members are without fuel which is down from about two thirds on Sunday. But many drivers are still waiting in long lines to fill up. The problem is it isn't a lack of gasoline but of truck drivers to deliver it.

The prime minister is urging people against panic buying.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: We now are starting to see the situation improve we're hearing from industry that supplies are coming back on to the full court and in the normal way. And I would just really urge everybody to just go back their businesses in the normal way and fill up in the normal way when you -- when you really need it.

And you know, things will start to -- all we want to do is make sure that we have all the preparations necessary to get through to Christmas and beyond, not just in the supplying the petrol stations but all parts of our supply chain.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH (on camera): CNN's Nina dos Santos joins me now live from London. Good to see you, Nina. So Prime Minister Johnson thinks this fuel supply situation is starting to improve what you seeing out on the streets of London?

NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, as on the streets of London in the moment there's a petrol station like, for instance, the one behind me, Rosemary, and it opens up and people get wounded the fact that it does actually have fuel they start queuing and lining up for blocks with their cars, honking their horns.

Some parts of London people are little bit quieter and more residential areas, they might not necessarily get out of their cars and remonstrate with a driver that's queue jump. But that has been a very different scene in other parts of the capital, about 18 miles away from here, there was this really present altercation between two drivers in Welling in Southeast London where, I believe we can show a view of some of the video.

Somebody jumped into the line to try and get some petrol. People have been waiting there for hours. Now the irate driver got out of their car and started arguing, eventually pulling a knife and then getting thrown onto the hood of the car before. Eventually other passengers know the cars intervened and said, look, none of this is worth can a fuel.

That's not the only type of dangerous behavior that some people had been resorting to, Rosemary. There's also been a lot of concerns about people not just filling up their tank but also filling up various canisters and bottles to try and transport extra fuel in the back of their car. The fire brigade has been saying that it's extremely dangerous practice. This is very, very flammable material.

I've witnessed over the last four days various fuel court attendants stopping people from doing that particularly on motorbikes. Delivery drivers here London getting awfully concerned about their ability to whizz all manner of goods across the capital and I've seen them doing that too. More broadly, though, as you said, there is signs that the situation is starting to calm down, maybe not in the capital, maybe outside of the capital but it is evidence of a more systemic problem with critical infrastructure and planning in this country and people getting very, very concerned not just about fuel but about day-to-day items.

Because this is a nation that relies very heavily on just-in-time supply chains. And when you're missing 100,000 truck drivers to get all sorts of goods they're made to be, that is when people become worried and they start to panic buy whether it's fuel or food. Rosemary?

CHURCH: Yes. It certainly creates a critical situation. We'll continue to watch this very closely. Nina dos Santos joining us live from London. Many thanks.

[03:19:56]

Well, Moscow is taking more action against jail Kremlin critic Alexander Navalny. Investigators are accusing Navalny and his associates of creating and leading an extremist group. They allege the group's activity aimed at steering public opinion toward a violent change of power.

Navalny is serving two and a half years over parole violations, and these charges could lead to another decade in prison.

In an exclusive interview with CNN, Haiti's prime minister says he will cooperate with the U.S. as it supports thousands of Haitian migrants. Arial Henry is also talking about accusations he's hampered the probe into the late president's murder.

CNN's Melissa Bell has more now from Port-au-Prince.

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Haiti is a country in the midst of multiple crisis. The migrant crisis that we've been talking so much about over the course of the last week. The abject poverty of course that continues to be such a difficult thing for so many people day-to- day, the gang violence that now grips so much of the Haitian capitals with daily kidnappings on its streets.

But also, there is the political crisis in which it currently finds itself. At the helm of Haiti at the moment what the departing U.S. special envoy to Haiti describe as an unelected de facto leader, the man who is currently the prime minister of Haiti. CNN got a chance to sit down with him for a chat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BELL: Since the migrant crisis and the deportation of thousands of Haitians the man now in charge of Haiti gives an exclusive interview to CNN.

ARIEL HENRY, HAITIAN PRIME MINISTER (through translator): We saw some of the mistreatment that these Haitian suffering and struck us a lot. What we are saying is that as long as there are countries that are better off than others, there will always be an appeal to those wealthier places.

BELL: But despite the migrant crisis, Prime Minister Ariel Henry says that Haitian cooperation with the United States is good and that he means it to remain so. Henry took office just two weeks after the assassination of President Jovenel Moise, elections had been due in September, they've now been pushed.

HENRY (through translator): The train has derailed for some time in Haiti. We have no more elected officials. Only 10 senators who cannot pass a law because there aren't enough of them. We want to move as quickly as possible to the restoration of democracy through elections.

BELL: But since taking over, Henry has been accused of hampering the investigation into the late president's murder by firing the prosecutor and the justice minister.

How can people have faith in the investigation when the executive is meddling in the judiciary?

HENRY (through translator): The prosecutor was dismissed for breaking the law. The minister of justice was dismissed for breaking the law as well. It is important for us that President Jovenel Moise has justice, it is fundamental for us and we are going to do everything so that justice is done.

BELL: The prosecutor had wanted to see charges brought against Henry over alleged phone calls that were made in the hours after the assassination with one of the main suspects, Joseph Badio who is still on the run.

The questions that the prosecutor had were about phone calls that you'd received from one of the main suspects. What is your relationship with Joseph Felix Badio?

HENRY (through translator): I have no recollection of this telephone call or if it took place. I have no interest in being associated with these people and I have never been and never will be.

BELL: Despite the controversy that has surrounded him so far, Henry says that he is determined to bring stability to Haiti by taking on the gangs that control so much of the country.

HENRY (through translator): We had asked friendly countries for help in supporting our police to fight these bandits and get them out of public life so that the economy can pick up, so that our children can go about their normal lives.

BELL: Little comfort to the deportees returning to a country more violent and politically unstable than the one they left.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BELL (on camera): That gang violence and the kidnappings that we've been seen spiraling over the course of the last two weeks really what is on the mind of Haitians as they try and go about their daily life. But you will only really see people out on the street during the daytime. Since after that, the city is simply become too dangerous for people to head out onto its streets.

In fact, as we left the prime minister's residency, rather, Chile warned us to be careful since the streets to Port-au-Prince might not be that safe.

Melissa Bell, CNN, Port-au-Prince.

CHURCH: Shocking revelations out of a probe into aid workers in the Democratic Republic of Congo. It finds that more than 80 people including some employed by the World Health Organization were involved in sexual abuse and exploitation during the Ebola crisis.

The probe comes after more than 50 women alleged last year workers from the WHO and other aid groups were demanding sex in exchange for jobs between 2018 and 2020.

[03:25:02]

The independent commission into the allegations found that at least 21 of the suspected perpetrators were employed by WHO. And that abuses including alleged rape were committed by both national and international staff. The head of the WHO is promising that the guilty will be held accountable and he's apologizing to victims.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TEDROS ADHANOM GHEBREYESUS, DIRECTOR-GENERAL, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION: The first thing I want to say is to the victims and survivors of the sexual exploitation and abuse describe in the commission's report. I'm sorry. I'm sorry for what was done to you by people who were employed by WHO to serve and protect you.

I'm sorry for the ongoing suffering that these events must calls. I struggle to find the words to describe my feelings when I first read the commission's report. The conduct it describes is a sickening betrayal of the people we serve. But it's also a betrayal of our colleagues who put themselves in harms' way to serve others.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH (on camera): Speaking at a briefing Tuesday, the WHO chief pledge reforms of structure and culture but it is unclear if anyone will be prosecuted. In the wake of the commission some known perpetrators have been banned from employment at the WHO and four former employees had their contracts terminated.

Well, top American generals testify about the collapse of Afghanistan. A former commander tells me we got it wrong for sure. Ahead, our conversation about those failures.

Plus, North Korea claims it has successfully tested a new hypersonic missile. A live from the region is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHURCH (on camera): Back to our breaking news this hour.

Japan's ruling Liberal Democratic Party has a new leader, which means Japan will be getting a new prime minister soon. Former Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida won a runoff election earlier defeating the country's popular vaccine czar. Kishida was Japan's foreign minister from 2012 to 2017. He is expected to become Japan's next prime minister after a party vote.

[03:30:04]

Well, South Korea says Pyeongyang's newly tested hypersonic missile appears to be at an early stage of development and can be detected and intercepted by South Korean and U.S. military assets. The missile was launched into waters off the coast of the Korean peninsula on Tuesday and marks North Korea's third missile test this month.

So, let's turn to CNN's Will Ripley. He joins us from Taipei, but has reported many times from North Korea. So, Will, what does this signal in North Korea has this level of technology and how big a threat could it possibly pose?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Well, it really depends on whose messaging you believe, because if you were to listen purely to North Korean state media you would think that they have a hypersonic missile which means any missile that is capable of traveling more than five times the speed of sound. Which means more than 4,000 miles an hour, roughly a mile a second.

And it also means that this missile -- because ballistic missiles can travel at hypersonic speeds as well but a hypersonic missile can actually change course mid-directions. So instead of following a set trajectory from point A to point B.

It can start at point A sort of zigzag on its way down to target making it very difficult for the tracking and then destruction that missile intercepts systems like the ones deployed for South Korea, for the United States, for Japan.

You know, all of those countries could be a lot more nervous if North Korea were to have effective hypersonic missile technology. So when South Korea says that at least at this stage of the development of this kind of hypersonic weapon they can still track and still potentially intercept dismissal. It might indicate that North Korea's is in the very early stages.

But Rosemary, we would not be wise to underestimate the capability of the North Koreans because they have surpassed expectations many, many times. Just in the -- you know, seven or eight years that I've been covering them and going there.

I mean, there were times that North Korea used to make claims about its weapons program and people automatically assume that it was fiction that is certainly not the case anymore after increasingly powerful nuclear test, though we haven't seen a nuclear test in North Korea in a number of years.

So when North Korea said back in January that they wanted to develop this hypersonic missile with a gliding flight warhead. Gliding warhead can actually detach from the rocket body in that it can travel sometimes for thousands of miles before hitting its target.

Analysts and you know, of course, military intelligence, they tend to try to believe what the North Koreans are saying even if the initial version and the reports about it might be exaggerated from what the eventual version is going to look like.

North Korea also has a wish list, a long one, Rosemary, where they talk about other things that they want to develop aside this new missile which by the way they are called the Hwasong-8. It talked about a 15,000 kilometer or more than 9300 mile ICBM.

It talk about solid fuel ICBMs even launching a military reconnaissance satellite, the kind of satellites that regularly fly over North Korea and give us the only threads of intel that we had about their nuclear and weapons program, Rosemary.

CHURCH: Alright. Will Ripley, joining us there from Taipei, many thanks for that.

Well, for the first time, senior leaders of the U.S. military are being publicly questioned by lawmakers about the pullout from Afghanistan and chaotic evacuation. The Pentagon chief says the U.S. gave the Afghan military equipment and skills, but couldn't provide them with the will to win. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LLOYD AUSTIN, DEFENSE SECRETARY: That we put too much faith in our ability to build effective Afghan institutions, an army, an air force, a police force and government ministries. We helped build a state, Mr. Chairman, but we could not for (inaudible). The fact that the Afghan army that we and our partners trained simply melted away in many cases without firing a shot took us all by surprise. And it would be dishonest to claim otherwise.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Top U.S. generals went on to say they advised President Joe Biden against a complete withdrawal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNETH MCKENZIE, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: I won't share my personal recommendation to the president but I will give you my honest opinion and my honest opinion in view shape my recommendation. I recommended that we maintain 2,500 troops in Afghanistan. And I also recommend early in the fall of 2020 that we maintain 4,500 at that time. Those are my personal views.

I also have a view that the withdrawal of those forces would lead inevitably to the collapse of Afghan military forces and eventually the Afghan government.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: But the White House says it received a range of viewpoints on how to proceed and that keeping U.S. forces in Afghanistan past the exit date would trigger new fighting and require reinforcements.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

So let's talk more about this with a former commander of U.S. forces in Afghanistan, Major General Jeffrey Schloesser, joins me now from Crystal City in Virginia. Good to have you with us, sir.

[03:35:04]

JEFFREY SCHLOESSER, FORMER COMMANDER OF U.S. FORCES IN AFGHANISTAN (on camera): Rosemary, thanks for having me in the show.

CHURCH: So during the grilling of U.S. military leaders over the chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan, top U.S. generals told the hearing their views on Afghanistan were heard, but not followed when it came to their advice to maintain 2,500 U.S. troops in the country that appears to contradict what President Biden told the ABC back in August when he claimed the advice was split.

What is your reaction to that?

SCHLOESSER: You know, I think today's hearing was actually extraordinary. The level of oversight was uncommon in my view point. Generally this become political (inaudible) and actually think that there were several members that actually wanted to get to the point of it.

I do think that there is clearly, you know, the Pentagon, in the uniform side, as well as the civilian side, basically send a message that -- look we provided our best military advice. But the national command authority, the president was actually the final decision maker.

And you know, I think they laid that out. And it's important for most people in the world to understand that many democratic countries, you know, the final decision-maker does not wear a uniform.

CHURCH: Yeah, indeed. So, I mean, there was no reason why Mr. Biden have to say what he did back in August. He could just as well had said that it was my -- it was my decision in the end. Why wouldn't he have done that?

SCHLOESSER: Yeah, I'm not sure why he went the way he did. I think at the time, you know, it may well be that he actually had forgotten the military advises. It seems unusual to me. I'm not sure exactly why he went that way, Rosemary.

I mean, I do think he probably want to present a united front and my guess would be is that if you look a little bit more deeply inside the U.S. decision-making process, you would probably would have seen the Department of State and maybe the National Security Council, those advisors may well have been were clearly all align with the idea for total withdrawal without soldiers or troops on the ground.

CHURCH: Right. So, these top generals acknowledge mistakes were made during the withdrawal and evacuation process of Afghanistan. But General Milley summed it up as a logistical success but a strategic failure. Not the extraordinary success that Mr. Biden called it over all.

Was this a failure of the military, the intelligence or the president do you think here?

SCHLOESSER: Well, I think all of the -- everybody, all of us were in some cases, you know, through 20 years of (inaudible) I would say, I think we are all accountable. You know, I mean, I've recently wrote a book called "Marathon War" about this whole accountability process or the whole war in Afghanistan and being accountable.

I think we all owned a little bit of this. And clearly the president does, but clearly the uniform side and the intelligence services as well. We got it wrong for sure.

CHURCH: And the top military leaders also emphasized that they didn't plan for Afghanistan to collapse so quickly in just 11 days. And I think most people would admit, you know that that was a hard thing to see what happened. But should anyone resign for the mistakes and the chaos as some Senators suggested?

SCHLOESSER: Well, you know, I think that actually the Chairman, General Milley, who I know well was my deputy in Afghanistan. I put it pretty bluntly. I mean, you know in our country, every time that a uniformed leader did not agree with the orders that or given to he -- he or she, then we would not have a military.

And you know, as a responsibility of the civilian leadership to set the actual decision-making, it's a responsibility of the military to give the best advice but then to carry out those orders as long as there legal.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: And that was Major General Jeffrey Schloesser, speaking with me a little earlier.

Well, president -- French President, Emmanuel Macron, says Europe needs to stop being naive when it comes to defending its own interests. The comments came shortly after Greece agreed to buy three warships from France in a deal worth about $3.5 billion.

Earlier this month France was blindsided when Australia scrapped a valuable contract to buy French submarines and opted to sign a deal with the U.S. and U.K. instead. The decision led to a diplomatic crisis adding comments Tuesday Mr. Macron urge more European autonomy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) PRES. EMMANUEL MACRON, PRESIDENT OF FRANCE (through translator): We

are obliged to note that for a little more than 10 years now, the United States has been concentrating a lot on itself and has strategic interests that are being reoriented towards China in the Pacific which is their right. It is their own sovereignty.

And I respect the sovereignty of the peoples, but we would be naive or rather we would be making a terrible mistake if we did not want to draw all the consequences and see this for ourselves. And so here too, it is with the same pragmatism, the same lucidity for our independence that we as Europeans must take our part in our own protection.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[03:40:08]

CHURCH: President Macron also insisted the deal with Greece is not an alternative to an alliance with the U.S.

Well, in the battle to control the pandemic, a new treatment for COVID-19 maybe available by the end of the year. Details on the research into antiviral pills. That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHURCH: Welcome back everyone. Well at least 37 people were injured after police and protesters clashed on international safe abortion day in Mexico City. Women marched, demanding reproductive rights and holding signs calling for legal and safe abortion. Earlier this month, Mexico's Supreme Court ruled that penalizing abortion is unconstitutional.

And this was scenes in Chile, legislators there just approved a plan to debate a bill to decriminalize abortion during the first 14 weeks of pregnancy. And protesters in El Salvador are pushing lawmakers to at least debate the issue. The country has some of strictest abortion laws in the world.

Russia reported its highest number of COVID-19 deaths in a single day Tuesday, 852 coronavirus deaths were recorded in 24 hours. The previous all-time high was just four days ago. A public health official says, less than half of Russia's adult population have had a vaccine dose. Daily cases began to increase early this month when millions of Russian students return to schools and colleges.

The Surgeon General says the U.S. is geared up and ready to vaccinate children against COVID-19 as soon as the FDA gives the green light. Pfizer and Biotech say they have submitted data on children ages, five to 11 for initial review but they are not seeking emergency use authorization just yet.

Meanwhile, India is moving forward on children's vaccine trials. Indian regulators have authorized trials of the COVID vaccine from U.S. drug maker Novavax for use in children ages seven to 11.

Meantime drug companies are working to develop pills to treats the coronavirus. American Pfizer are preparing to report the clinical trial results for their experimental antiviral pills.

Both companies and their partners say they could seek emergency authorization for their pills by the end of the year. Infectious disease experts say preventing the virus through vaccines is still the best way to control the pandemic. But they admit more convenient treatments are needed.

[03:45:16]

Timothy Sheahan has working to help pioneer these therapies. He is a virologist and assistant professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Thank you so much for joining us.

TIMOTHY SHEAHAN, VIROLOGIST/ASSISTANT PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA, CHAPEL HILL (on camera): Thank you, Rosemary, for having me.

CHURCH: So we know at least three different COVID antiviral pills are currently being tested in clinical trials. How close are we to having access to these pills that could stop COVID-19 in its tracks and is this how we all get back to normal?

SHEAHAN: Well, I think we're very close. You know, the drug development process is a long process and I think we're finally seeing a few of this come to fruition. I would guess that we are going to see emergency use authorization for at least one if not more than one antiviral drug by around Christmas time.

CHURCH: Now that sounds very encouraging. Of course, this form of antiviral treatments would involve a short-term regimen of daily pills that would fight the virus early up to that initial diagnosis. So, how exactly to these oral antivirals work and will everyone be able to afford this, do you think?

SHEAHAN: Yeah, that -- whether or not we will be able to afford them that's definitely a question above my pay grade. But how do they work, I can definitely answer that. They work by stopping the virus from replicating in one's body.

So the antiviral unlike a vaccine, a vaccine is intended to prevent infection and an antiviral drug is something that you take after you know that you're sick and after you know you have COVID-19.

And what it will do, it will stop the virus from replicating in your body. The symptoms associated with that infection should diminish and you should feel better in a short period of time, a shorter period of time than you would if you haven't taken the medication.

CHURCH: So, are you still suggesting people get vaccinated and just have these COVID pills for those who can't or won't get the shot and of course for any symptomatic breakthrough cases for those who are vaccinated. Or do you worry that people will avoid the shot to take the pill?

SHEAHAN: Yeah, those are really, really good questions and I think first and foremost the best tool, the best weapon we have against COVID is the vaccine. Preventing infections is a much better thing to do than treating them after people have been sick.

CHURCH: Right, of course, I mean there will -- we've seen this, you know, those who were very hesitant who will never take the vaccine presumably will come to rely on a pill like this. Of course that's inevitable isn't it?

But I did want to ask you this because the COVID-19 vaccines are unable to stop the transmission of COVID-19. Certainly that's our understanding with the data we have today. But these antiviral pills apparently can limit the transmission of COVID 19 to others. How does that work exactly?

SHEAHAN: So, you know, like the vaccine basically trains your immune system to fight the virus. It makes antibodies that can neutralize the virus in your body. Antivirals pills kind of work in a similar way and that they, you know try to eliminate the virus from your body but perhaps they do it in a more rapid way than your natural immunity can.

But I think the vaccines may not prevent 100 percent of the transmission but they must prevent some because the virus definitely declines at a quicker rate than if you're not vaccinated. But I kind a want to circle back to the notion that you brought before and that's, you know, will people depend on drugs rather than take the vaccines.

And I think the drugs have you know, lots of utility beyond people who were reluctant to take the vaccine. Especially as new variants emerge that are may get around vaccine induced immunity.

So I see antiviral drug being used not only in people who are not vaccinated but also people who were vaccinated, who have breakthrough infections or who may have some kind of immunodeficiency. So, I think there's a lot of -- there's a broad application to antiviral drugs. Above and beyond people who were not vaccinated.

CHURCH: Right. Very important point there, but first, of course, get vaccinated and then we should have these pills by the end of the year. That is great news. Timothy Sheahan, thank you so much for talking with us. We appreciated it.

SHEAHAN: Wonderful. Thanks for having me.

[03:50:02]

CHURCH: And still to come, fighting vaccine mandates on the healthcare workers in New York are defying the state's vaccine rules despite evidence, they save lives. Now their jobs are at risk. We'll take a look.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHURCH: Welcome back, everyone. Well, New York City is reporting a surge in COVID vaccination after announcing mandates earlier in the summer. Healthcare workers across the entire state are required to get their shots. But despite the mandates and the very real protection vaccines offer, some health workers are not budging.

CNN's Miguel Marquez spoke with the two healthcare workers about their reasons why.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: At some point (inaudible) is going to come (inaudible). And they will say you must be vaccinated or you will not have a job.

UNKNOWN: I will not be vaccinated.

MARQUEZ: Healthcare workers, Donna Schmidt and Stephanie Touchet are refusing the COVID 19 vaccine no matter what.

UNKNOWN: Do you have a job today?

Currently I am employed.

MARQUEZ: And you have a job.

UNKNOWN: I do have a job and actually I'm on a medical leave for surgical procedure I had but I have a job on --

MARQUEZ: Both expect they won't have a job for long. Both don't trust the vaccine and its possible side effects. Both have requested religious exemptions.

What religion are you?

UNKNOWN: Catholic.

MARQUEZ: Catholic.

And even though the Pope got vaccinated and says vaccines are fine and we should be getting them that doesn't --

UNKNOWN: I feel as a hypocrite. My whole life --

MARQUEZ: This is God's messenger on earth. This is the bishop of Rome.

STEPHANIE TOUCHET, MEDICAL ASSISTANT: He is. He was elected to that position, however he's not abiding by the bible.

MARQUEZ: Both say they gladly test for COVID on a weekly basis instead of getting the vaccine. That's not enough for the state of New York.

GOV. KATHY HOCHUL (D-NY): You need to be assured that the person taking care of you is not going to give COVID to you or your newborn.

MARQUEZ: Donna Schmidt works in a neonatal ICU.

Do you worry about giving something, COVID or anything even to a child that's in your care?

DONNA SCHMIDT, REGISTERED NURSE, NEO-NATAL ICU: No. Because we're all required to wear and use PPE. We're trained professionals, we know how to use it properly.

MARQUEZ: Both believe COVID-19 is real, but don't believe the statistics when it comes to reporting COVID deaths and whether the vaccine is effective.

The number of people who are hospitalized and die that are vaccinated is extremely low, compared to those who were dying by the thousands every week of COVID-19.

TOUCHET: That's a misconception.

MARQUEZ: I've seen them myself. I've talked to them myself. Thousands of people are dying form COVID-19 every week in this country.

TOUCHET: Here's the thing, There's several hundreds of thousands of people that were put on hospice five months before COVID came, they had brain tumors, they had lung cancer, they had COPD, they had other elements, illnesses and yet on their actual death certificate they deemed that that it was per COVID.

MARQUEZ: You can't even accept that the vaccines worked?

SCHMIDT: No, I'm not convinced that they work yet.

MARQUEZ: You?

TOUCHET: No.

SCHMIDT: Because there's so much suppress science out there globally.

[03:55:04]

MARQUEZ: Both women who got COVID-19 feel betrayed. A year ago, people cheered them. Today they feel their options for a livelihood are being rip away.

So, what's next for you two?

TOUCHET: And that's the number one thing that frustrates me the most is that we are all together. We are all united and then all of the sudden these mandates come out and then they're fearful of losing their jobs and they are being told, oh this is safe and you're in the wrong.

SCHMIDT: I believe the fabric of our civilized free society is truly at a precipice. And when I lay my head down, not only at night but at the end of my life if I'm given a moment, I want to know and I want my descendants to know that I did everything that I could and that I fought for what we believe in. So what I know to be true and right and if that cost me everything, so be it.

MARQUEZ: So she thank these women for speaking out. It's not easy to do in this in environment. And beyond their vaccine skepticism or resistance, one thing is very clear, they thought they were going to have a lot more people with them. But the reality is that as this mandates deadline loomed and move

closer, thousands of healthcare workers across the state of New York got vaccinated. The bottom line is, if you want to get people vaccinated, put in the mandate. Back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: Alright, we thank you for that report.

Well, Lebron James says he has received the COVID 19 vaccine. On Tuesday, the NBA superstar confirmed he got the shot despite his initial hesitancy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LEBRON JAMES, CLEVELAND CAVALIERS: Everyone has their own choice to do what they feel as right for themselves and their family, things of that nature. I know that I was very skeptical about it all. But I have to do my research and things of that nature. I feel like it was best suited for not only me, but for my family and for my friends. And you know, that's why I decided to do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: The NBA requires referees and staff who to interact closely with players to be vaccinated but not the players themselves. Still ESPN reports about 90 percent of the league's players are vaccinated against COVID 19.

Alright, thank you for your company this hour. I'm Rosemary Church, have a wonderful day.

"CNN Newsroom" continues with Isa Soares.

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