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Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) Summons Leadership to Office, Still Plans to Vote Today; CDC to Pregnant Women, Get Vaccinated Against COVID; Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-KY) Says, Senate will Pass Stopgap Government Funding Bill Today. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired September 30, 2021 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: A very good Thursday newsy morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

ERICA HILL, CNN NEWSROOM: That it is. And I'm Erica Hill.

Speaking of news, this just coming into CNN. Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, we've learned, has just summoned House leadership to her office for a strategy meeting on how to bridge the gap between Democrats and how to pass President Biden's agenda. Speaker Pelosi says the plan right now, emphasis on right now, is to have a vote on the infrastructure bill today.

SCIUTTO: She does say it's hour by hour. Pelosi signaling she wants Democratic senators, including Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema, to get on board with the multitrillion dollar spending bill. The problem, and they're public about this, they're simply not there yet. It's not clear what figure they would be happy with.

This as we've now learned President Biden met with Senator Manchin yesterday. In a statement, Manchin called the current price tag of the bill, quote, wait for this, the definition of fiscal insanity. That's a Democrat.

CNN Chief Congressional Correspondent Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill. So, Pelosi says she's still going to hold a vote today. Do you believe that? Does that mean she has the votes?

REP. MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It does not mean she has the votes and also it does not mean the vote could happen. She keeps saying the, quote, plan is to have a vote today and she keeps saying it is hour by hour. She's told reporters, you're minute by minute, I'm hour by hour, so, suggesting in the next hour perhaps that could change.

And at the moment, she is huddling with her top deputies in her office leadership meeting to try to figure out a way forward. Then she'll go and talk to the press. We'll see if she has changed her mind in any way. But it's very clear what's happening here, a clear division between moderates and progressives, not just over the policy and substance, and there are significant differences about that, but also about the strategy. Moderates say that let's pass this bipartisan infrastructure bill that passed the Senate last month, $1.2 trillion for roads, for bridges, for broadband. Get that out of the chamber, send that to Joe Biden's desk.

Progressives say, where are they going to hold off? We're not going to support that plan unless that larger deal to expand the social safety net, dealing with health care, climate change, education, all that is agreed to by the moderates. But moderates, like Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema are not there yet, which is why that infrastructure bill could go down today.

Talking to progressives yesterday, they made very clear here that they are going to vote no and they're a hard no. Listen.

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RAJU: Does that mean that the bill -- I mean, you're a hard no tomorrow when this comes --

REP. CORI BUSH (D-MO): I'm hard no tomorrow. I'm an absolute no. You can write it on the wall with Cori Bush next to it, I'm a no.

RAJU: You'll be a no on infrastructure?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, correct.

REP. STEPHANIE MURRAY (D-FL): I think that if the vote were to fail tomorrow or be delayed, there would be a significant breach in trust that would slow the momentum in moving forward in delivering the Biden agenda.

RAJU: Are you worried that you may not have the votes?

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): One hour at a time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So that comment there in the middle there from Stephanie Murphy, she's a key moderate blue-dog Democrat, saying there would be a significant breach in trust from the leadership if they were to move back from this infrastructure vote today.

Remember, Pelosi agreed to have a vote this week. Initially, she's said it's going to happen on Monday, then she said it was going to happen on Thursday as a deal she got with the moderates. But could that cost her votes from those moderates in the bigger plan? That is a very difficult conundrum facing her right now. How does she resolve it, still unclear. Guys?

HILL: Yes. I say this a lot. But, really, oh, to be a fly on the wall in that meeting with leadership that was just convened. Manu, I appreciate the excellent reporting, as always. We'll continue to check in with you.

Meantime, what happens next? Well, that may be a big question. What we do know is just how much is at stake here.

CNN Capitol Hill Reporter Melanie Zanona joining us now with more on that, including a breakdown of just what exactly is on the line here, Melanie, when we talk about both the infrastructure and reconciliation bills.

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Yes. We talk a lot about the political stakes and those are important, but there is a lot at stake for the American people and the economy. Let's start by talking about that infrastructure package that is supposed to get a floor vote today. That includes over $100 billion for traditional infrastructure projects, like roads, bridges, airports, you also have money for public transit as well broad band. That was a huge part of the negotiations. That was a big priority for them. There's also money for plug-in electric vehicle chargers, but all of this in jeopardy because Democrats have not yet been able to coalesce around their larger economic package to expand the social safety net.

[10:05:04]

Let's take a look at what's in that. That includes provisions like universal pre-K, two years of free community college, paid family and medical leave, expansions of Medicare and Medicaid, the child tax credit, provisions to fight climate change. I mean, these are popular items, the core of Biden's economic agenda, but just unclear whether they can come to an agreement just yet.

SCIUTTO: All right. So, tell us what the sticking points are, because, I mean, is it as simple as the dollar figure?

ZANONA: It's not. I mean, it's everything from price tag to policy.

Let's start with the price tag, because that is important. Progressives want to keep it at $3.5 trillion. They feel like they already compromised because, remember, they wanted $6 trillion. But then you have centrists, like Sinema and Manchin, who have not yet said where they stand or what their top number is, just that it needs to come down.

Next up, climate change, progressives, this, again, big priority for them, they want a provision in there that would incentives utility companies to switch over to clean energy and penalize those that don't. But Joe Manchin, who represents a coal state, says companies are already doing this and he's not sure it's the best use of resources.

Then you have health care, this is another big one. Progressives and Bernie Sanders want to expand Medicare to include dental, vision and hearing. But then you have Nancy Pelosi and more establishment Democrats in the other camp who want to shore up Obamacare, make those subsidies permanent so it can't be taken away by a future Republican majority. Of course, that is also a legacy item for Speaker Nancy Pelosi, so, very important for her. And then centrists, you have them in this third camp, they want entitlement programs to be means tested. They also have concerns about the drug pricing provisions that are supposed to pay for the bill. So that's a huge fight.

And then, finally, you have taxes. In the blue states that are expensive, Democrats there are pushing to remove the cap and state and local income tax deduction. Progressives worry that benefits the wealthy. And then also on tax, you have Sinema concerned about the corporate tax hikes, which is, again, supposed to be a huge pay-for in the bill. So, still a long way to go, and these are sticking points that could take weeks, if not, months to resolve.

SCIUTTO: And these are disagreements within the Democratic Party when they own, with slim margins, both the House and the Senate and the White House. Remarkable. Melanie Zanona, thanks very much.

ZANONA: Thanks.

HILL: Well, joining me now to discuss, Congressman Steve Cohen, a Democrat from Tennessee, he's also a member of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee. Congressman, good to have you with us this morning.

You've said it is not worth sacrificing infrastructure for a bill that the Senate will likely never agree on. If this is brought up, if the speaker brings it to the floor today for a vote, are you definitely a yes on infrastructure?

REP. STEVE COHEN (D-TN): I'm definitely a yes. I think we need the jobs that the infrastructure bill would create directly and indirectly, and it's a major thing for a city like Memphis, that's a distribution hub, for America. And I've been in the Congress now 15 years on transportation. We've not passed an infrastructure bill in the entire 15 years. So, we've been in the desert for a long time. Even warm pitcher's spit tastes good. And this is better than a warm pitcher's spit but it's not exactly what we want but it's an infrastructure bill and I'm going to vote for it and everybody really should.

HILL: The speaker made clear on Sunday, and not a surprise that anybody who's watched the way that the speaker works, that she won't bring a bill if she doesn't have the votes. And yet there is some talk, as we've heard from some our reporters this morning that even if this were to be brought and there weren't the votes, let's say it did fail, that maybe that could help in some ways push things forward. Could you get on board with that line of thinking?

COHEN: I'll support Nancy Pelosi in whatever line of thinking she comes up with. She's the most brilliant tactician in this Capitol and maybe one of the most brilliant in the history of the United States Congress. She knows how to get votes. It's a difficult task but she'll be able to figure it out and maybe standing on an edge of a pin. She'll be able to do it and I'll support Nancy, and she's going to be supporting Biden and that's what Democrats need to do and that's what Americans need to do.

The items in the build back better bill, lowering costs, lowering taxes, giving people jobs, health care, child care credits, it's so important and we need to support it all.

HILL: Melanie Zanona just laid out sort of where the different camps stand within the Democratic Party, talking about price tag and policy. Who do you think this morning, as we're looking at this, has more leverage? Progressives, like your colleague, Congresswoman Jayapal, or Senators Manchin and Sinema?

COHEN: Well, there are more progressives by far, but Sinema and Manchin have got a vote. They made it clear that they're not comfortable with the bill, as it exists. And they've got have to have their vote to get to 50. So, it's a very tenuous situation. It's very difficult. So, they've all got power all using it. They've all got egos and they're enjoying the attention, I think. And it's a very difficult matter for America because we need to move forward and we need get things accomplished.

[10:10:01]

And the Republicans are helping not at all. They have not supported the debt ceiling, which if we don't get the debt ceiling raised, we are not supporting the Constitution, which says we need the full faith and credit of the American government, should never be put at risk. And we will be sacrificing that And possibly looking at a recession and certainly effects on people's pocketbooks if we don't pass the debt ceiling increase and keep our economy and our bond rating solid.

HILL: Look, there is a lot on your plate right now, all very important. The debt ceiling, you know, could soon take precedence for obvious reasons as we look at that clock that is ticking. There's also the reality of whether all of this infighting, this lack of agreement and negotiation, could, in fact, tank the president's agenda, could have real consequences for Democrats in 2022. Representative Connolly saying you have to spend a little more time looking at the consequences. There will be hell to pay back home.

You say Republicans aren't working with you. Of the House Republicans, I think there are at least a dozen according to our reporters on Capitol Hill, perhaps a few more, who do plan to vote for infrastructure even if they vote for it, they can go home and say, look at what we did. Do you think Democrats are thinking enough about how this could impact where they stand come 2022?

COHEN: I don't think we're looking at that well enough. Collin and I made an excellent speech in caucus a couple days ago and laid it out just the way it is. If we don't get behind this bill and give America an infrastructure bill they'd like to have and pass the build back better bill, if we can't, we're ruining Biden's agenda. And if we don't show that we can govern, we're risking our majority in 2022 and we're risking our democracy in 2024. Because if Joe Biden or the Democratic nominee in 2024 loses, they easily could because of the failure to accomplish things in this Congress, that we could have a Trump presidency. And that would, in my opinion, be the end of democracy in this country. And it would be just -- the vengeance tour would not be something that the Constitution forefathers look forwards. I don't want to suggest that the progressives are wrong. They have good attitudes and good instincts and good goals. But they haven't been legislators, most of them, for a very long period of time and a lot of them have been activists and tried to get things in other ways. I've been a legislator for 44 years. I've got car -- my car is older than quite a few of the progressives. Experience teaches you. You have got to get things done for the American people and it takes compromise. And I'm willing to do it and I'm a progressive with a capital P.

HILL: Congressman, we're going to leave it there. I appreciate your time this morning and we'll continue to check in, see how that message is being received with your colleagues.

COHEN: You're welcome, Erica.

HILL: Thanks again.

Still to come, we could see the Senate vote soon on a short-term funding bill. We're going to follow that race against the clock to keep the government open.

But, next, the CDC issuing an urgent plea to pregnant women, get vaccinated. It is safe. That warning coming after August showed a new pandemic record for COVID-related deaths in pregnant women.

SCIUTTO: It's an important finding.

Later, as the January 6th select committee issues another round of subpoenas, we get a Trump administration whistleblower's take on how downplaying security threats domestically made the country less safe.

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[10:15:00]

HILL: And urgent recommendation from the CDC for pregnant women to get vaccinated against COVID-19. The agency noting pregnant patients with coronavirus symptoms have double the risk of admission to the ICU and may be more likely to die.

SCIUTTO: Dr. Leana Wen joins us now. She's a CNN Medical Analyst, former Baltimore health commissioner. Dr. Wen, great to have you on.

Okay. You look at this data -- I should also note, the author of Lifelines, A Doctor's Journey in the Fight for Public Health.

Looking, at this data, truly remarkable here. It says that 97 percent of pregnant women hospitalized in 2021 who tested for COVID, they were unvaccinated. It's such a consistent figure here. And I guess it gets at the larger point where you have pregnant moms worried about the risk from the vaccine when in reality the data shows the greater risk is from the virus itself.

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: That's right. There are two key data points that we have to bring forward. One is that pregnant women are more likely to become severely ill from COVID-19 compared to women who are not pregnant, more likely to become hospitalized, to be on a ventilator, to be in the ICU. Also they are more likely to have premature delivery, which will end up having consequences for their baby as well.

The other data point is that we now know that the vaccines are safe and effective in pregnancy. They're safe. And that's so important. We now know that the vaccines have been given in all three trimesters of pregnancy with no increase in miscarriage or stillbirth.

And there's one other benefit as well, which is that the antibodies produced by the mom actually transfer across the placenta and in breast milk. And so the newborn otherwise would have no protection against COVID, they're able to get some antibodies that way from their mom.

And so this is the reason why every major medical organization, including the CDC but also the American College of Obstetrician and Gynecologists, the Society for Maternal and Fetal Medicine, they strongly recommend that pregnant women, breast-feeding women, women looking to conceive, that they all get vaccinated.

HILL: And so important especially as we look at the numbers of pregnant women who are vaccinated.

[10:20:02]

It's only about 30 percent. If we look at African-American women in this country, it's only 15 percent.

But as you point out, every major medical organization is on board with this. And I think that's so important because as somebody who's been pregnant twice with two different doctors, you can get a lot of conflicting information. The fact that there is consensus here is really important.

WEN: Right. And I think we need to acknowledge that every pregnant woman wants to do the best for herself and her baby. And so this is the reason why it's so important to get the vaccine. I understand that there are questions about safety and certainly at the very beginning because pregnant women were not initially included in the clinical trials, we just didn't know about the safety in pregnancy. Now we do. We have tens of thousands of women who have received the vaccine in every trimester. We've seen that it's safe and we've also seen how effective it is.

And so I think there are a lot of myths out there. I definitely do not fault any woman who wants to find out information for herself. But I would say consult the experts, look at the CDC, look at the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, talk to your O.B. And, really, every O.B. that I know has gotten vaccinated themselves and also I would strongly recommend it for all their pregnant patients and people looking to conceive.

SCIUTTO: Okay, broader picture for a moment, and perhaps some good news. We're seeing in the data now first on new infections, new cases of COVID, a drop-off, a decline in recent weeks. This is new coronavirus cases. We're seeing the same with new coronavirus hospitalizations.

You do have some such as Dr. Scott Gottlieb, former director of the FDA, who says he believes that the delta surge is not only burning out but this is the last major surge in the pandemic. And I wonder if you agree with that.

WEN: I'm not sure how we could possibly know that. Of course, I hope that this is the case. And I certainly think that when it comes to the delta surge right now, we are trending in the right direction finally. But that's really in large part due to the fact that the southern states were so hard hit and the declining numbers that we're seeing is because of a decline in the southern states. But we're also seeing other parts of the country, including the Pacific Northwest, parts of the Midwest that are lighting up again.

And also, we don't know what the winter is going to have in store for us when people start going indoors, also when we have the confluence of other respiratory pathogens. We have RSV, we have paraflu, influenza. I'm not sure we know also what new variants could come our way. Andso this is not the time for us to be letting our guard down. Definitely getting those vaccination numbers as high as possible, including through vaccine requirements, that's what's going to get us through the winter.

SCIUTTO: Dr. Leana Wen, thanks very much.

Still ahead, is it all or nothing on Capitol Hill today? Divided Democrats are not showing signs of compromise. Just how much could this threaten the president's agenda or is there a path forward? Just not today. We'll discuss, next.

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[10:25:00]

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SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): On government funding, what Republicans laid out all along with a clean (ph), continued resolution, without the poison pill of a debt limit increase. That's exactly what we'll pass today.

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SCIUTTO: All right. So, that's news. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell confirming the Senate will pass a stopgap funding bill today, effectively averting one of the precipices currently faced by Congress, that being a government shutdown. But it's significant. The stopgap would fund federal agencies, like the FDA, for instance, through the December 3rd.

But it remains two moderate Democratic senators, Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema, holding the keys to President Biden's larger, more ambitious legislative agenda. HILL: Senator Manchin saying overnight, what I made clear to the president and Democratic leaders is that spending trillions more on new and expanded government programs when we can't pay for the essential social programs, like social security and Medicare, is the definition of fiscal insanity.

Joining us now is Daniel Strauss, he's Senior Political Correspondent at The New Republic. Good to have you with us.

And you write extensively about Congresswoman Jayapal, this standoff that we're seeing, right, and note that Sinema and Manchin have the leverage here versus what we're seeing from Congresswoman Jayapal, but that she likely shouldn't be counted out in this staring contest. Do you think she'll win?

DANIEL STRAUSS, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW REPUBLIC: I mean, she does. She's -- I've never seen the progressive wing of the Democratic Party so determined as they are now on Capitol Hill. And, you know, it comes in the face of these two conservative lawmakers who we are pretty familiar with as always having some sort of problem at the last minute with some piece of the Biden administration's legislation.

Like earlier this week, Kyrsten Sinema went up to meet with President Biden himself three times in one day. And in my interviews with members of Congress who are in the congressional progressive caucus and their chair, Congresswoman Jayapal herself, they are pretty happy staying lockstep in line here. They do not want to cave here. They see it as a high risk/high reward situation.