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John Durham Issues More Subpoenas; Interview With Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-TX); CDC Urges Pregnant Women to Get Vaccinated; Infrastructure Negotiations. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired September 30, 2021 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

QUESTION: Congresswoman, can you give us a sense of the numbers on this? It's still half your caucus is committed to voting against the infrastructure bill if it comes up for a vote today, unless reconciliation is passed by both chambers? Is that what you're saying?

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): That's correct.

And if there's somebody who wants to tell me, what is the assurance that the Senate is going to vote the reconciliation bill through, of course, we're always all ears.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: What was the speaker's message to you, Congresswoman? Did she -- did you come to some sort of agreement today on the vote or timing of that?

JAYAPAL: No, the speaker just really wanted to see where we were. And we explained that we're in the same place. We talked about the importance of the Build Back Better agenda and the act, and we told her exactly where we were.

And, frankly, she's been great. We have been working very closely to make sure she understands where we are, to be transparent.

Listen, nobody should be surprises that we are where we are, because we have been telling you that for three-and-a-half months. We have said the same thing, and we're still in the same place.

(CROSSTALK)

REP. ILHAN OMAR (D-MN): Can I add something?

I think the other piece that I know the chairwoman has repeated, and it keeps getting lost, is that this is not a progressive agenda. We are fighting for the Build Back Better agenda, which is the president's agenda.

So if the senator thinks electing more Democrats is how you get it done, then that is something he should state to the president, because this is the president's agenda. This is, oddly, the progressives who are holding up his agenda and trying to make sure that the president has a success in fulfilling that agenda.

If we pass the infrastructure bill alone, we are not even accomplishing 10 percent of his agenda, right? The majority of the agenda that the president ran on that delivered us the House, the Senate and the White House is in the Build Back Better agenda.

If we fail to deliver on that promise, we have failed the American people. We are not in the business, right, of wasting this once-in-a- lifetime opportunity to deliver on the promises that we have made in child care, in health care, in addressing our climate infrastructure, and in addressing our standard infrastructure as well.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: Now that now that Joe Manchin has laid down his marker, $1.5 trillion, will progressives now counter with another number?

JAYAPAL: Look, those negotiations are going on, as I understand it, at the White House.

The speaker has committed to us that nothing will be agreed to, and because she knows that we have to we have to sign off on it. Look, there's too many of us that have been very clear that we're going deliver on the entirety of the president's agenda.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: Did you ask her to delay the vote, the speaker? Did she give you any indication of that?

JAYAPAL: We didn't talk about that at all. She just knows, and she's a master vote-counter, as you all know. She has said -- last week, she said that she doesn't bring bills tots floor that are going to fail.

And she knows, because I have been very transparent and clear with her about where our members are, that there aren't the votes to pass it.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: Will you all vote the way the president asks you to vote if it comes down to a compromise between the president and the Senate on some sort of middle ground?

You said it's the president's agenda. If he comes to you and says, this is where we have gotten with Sinema and Manchin, is that something progressives would support?

JAYAPAL: Well, listen, we're always -- we always take the president's calls. Every single minute of every single day that he wants to talk to us, we're here. And he knows. And he's been very clear that he wants us to deliver the entirety of his agenda to him.

QUESTION: Congresswoman, Manchin said you guys were not...

(CROSSTALK)

JAYAPAL: I don't think you asked a question yet. So, go ahead.

QUESTION: Speaker Pelosi said that the reconciliation bill was part of her legacy, and she guaranteed it would pass.

Is her word not good enough that she would do everything she could to get it passed?

JAYAPAL: Oh, the speaker understands that it isn't about the speaker's word that we're worried. The trust -- that going beyond trust to verify is about, unfortunately, some senators and some of our colleagues in the House, 4 percent. Just want to make sure you all got that number, 4 percent of Democrats, who are opposing the passing the president's agenda right now.

That is the group we're concerned about, so this isn't about trusting the speaker. It's not about trusting the president. It's really about the vote as an ironclad assurance in the Senate.

(CROSSTALK)

JAYAPAL: I promised you early on. And I couldn't see you back there.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: And will you meet with Senator Manchin?

JAYAPAL: Any time. We are all prepared to -- and I said that last week.

QUESTION: I mean, are you talking actively to his office? Are you...

JAYAPAL: No, he hasn't reached out. He had reached out to some of our colleagues and asked if we would meet with him, and I said absolutely. As you know, I spoke with Senator Sinema.

We are ready to do whatever we can to deliver the entirety of the president's agenda. And we all told the speaker we're happy to stay here every day until we get this done. We don't need to go home. We will work 24 hours. We will eat pizza every night.

[13:05:04]

We will be sick of -- you will be sick of all of us at the end of it. We will do what it takes.

QUESTION: Congresswoman, you have said repeatedly that you want to make sure that the bill has the five priorities that progressives have put forward.

Can that be done with a $1.5 trillion reconciliation package?

JAYAPAL: Well, look, there's no number. I don't have a number. I don't have a number.

QUESTION: But that's the Manchin -- the number that Manchin is putting out. JAYAPAL: Well, that's what he tells you. But that's not what

ultimately is going to be the package.

QUESTION: That's what he told -- he said to Schumer.

JAYAPAL: Well, whatever. I don't have an offer in front of me.

My number is 3.5. Our number is 3.5. Somebody has a different offer, then they can put in on the table. You don't negotiate against yourself. If you go to buy a house, you don't put down an offer and then before an offer has even been put down on the table, suddenly say, OK, I'm willing to go down another $100,000.

Anybody done that? I don't think so. That's not how we negotiate. So we have said consistently, you don't like this, you're 4 percent. Just want to be clear, 4 percent. Don't like it. We understand we have all got to come to the table. So you tell us what you want and we will figure out whether or not we can get there.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: Thank you, Congresswoman.

QUESTION: Thank you, Congresswoman.

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello, I'm Ana Cabrera in New York. I'm going to pick up our coverage from here. You have been listening in to Capitol Hill.

That was Representative Pramila Jayapal. She is the chairwoman of the Progressive Caucus for the Democrats essentially standing firm that if a vote happens on the bipartisan infrastructure bill today in the House, she says the votes aren't there from her caucus.

She is demanding that there is a reconciliation bill passed by both chambers before they're willing to vote yes on the bipartisan infrastructure bill.

Let me bring in CNN's Lauren Fox on Capitol Hill and Kaitlan Collins at the White House.

I don't know where this leaves us, Lauren, because how can there be a vote today if they aren't there?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Digging in here, Ana.

I think one thing that was very notable about this press conference that was just held with the progressives is that Jayapal is coming just a little bit over an hour after Manchin revealed that $1.5 trillion is his top line.

There was also a document circulating that CNN has confirmed the authenticity of that included a lot of details about what Manchin would accept when it came to climate change, when it came to tax policy. It was the kind of document that maybe was going to be the catalyst or the change agent to actually get progressives to go along with this bipartisan infrastructure bill on the floor that we expect still to happen today.

Or at least that was the plan this morning. But, instead, what you saw there was progressives saying, it's not enough. They are willing to negotiate. They want to keep talking, but they want the bill to pass out of the Senate, that big social safety net bill to pass out of the Senate before they are willing to vote yes on that bipartisan infrastructure bill that is also critical to the president's agenda.

You heard her there making it very clear that she views the entire package as the president's agenda, and not just that smaller infrastructure bill.

Meanwhile, Senator Joe Manchin talked to reporters earlier, saying that $1.5 trillion was his number. He was sticking to that. Here's what he said to reporters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): I brought the 1.5, as you have seen, I think, by now. The 1.5 was always done from my heart basically of what we could and not jeopardize, not jeopardize our economy.

I'm willing to sit down and work through that 1.5 to get my priorities. And they can come back and do later. And they can run on the rest of it later.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOX: And all eyes now are again on House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. Does she bring this to the floor for a vote, this $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill that already passed out of the Senate, or does she pull that bill?

She's still going to continue talking with moderates and progressives today. She is trying to get a sense of where the caucus is. But, clearly, progressives are not giving in at this moment. And that is so significant, given all of the movement over the last hour when it came to where moderates are in their position.

CABRERA: Kaitlan, what are you hearing from the White House?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think one thing that we talked about yesterday was a lot of this is going to come down to trust.

And what Jayapal was making clear there is they do not trust the moderate senators, Senator Joe Manchin and Senator Sinema, just at their word when it comes to this reconciliation package. And you can see why, based on that gaggle that Manchin gave earlier where he said, maybe they can come to an agreement on something, but talking about how long that's going to take.

And as Lauren just laid out, you see how far apart the progressives are from what people like Senator Joe Manchin say that they are looking at. And so one thing that we have asked the White House yesterday was whether or not the president thought that it could be a kind of trust situation between those progressives and those moderates.

And Jayapal said there that their trust is going to be a vote from the Senate. She says that is their only ironclad assurance. And so we should talk about what the president is doing here, because his number one goal is getting Manchin and Sinema on board with this.

Those are the two figures that he has spoken to the most this week, that his staff has spoken to their staff as well, as they're trying to get to a number here. And Manchin that he has told the president in the last week that $1.5 trillion top line that he laid out to reporters earlier.

[13:10:10]

He said the president responded that he wanted a lot more than that. Obviously, they talked about their mutual areas of shared priorities. But he said that the president told him he understands that he is not going to go against his convictions, meaning Manchin.

And, right now, he says his convictions are that $1.5 trillion top line. So, of course, where this goes from here and what the president's next step is remains to be seen. And, of course, it seems very unlikely this vote is going to happen, based on what they have said, that Nancy Pelosi is not going to bring it to the floor for a vote if it doesn't have the votes.

And Jayapal sitting there, right now, it doesn't have the votes.

CABRERA: Kaitlan, quickly, if you will, has the president been clear whether he wants a vote on this infrastructure bill today?

COLLINS: What we were told by the White House yesterday is, he is following Pelosi as lead on this and that, if they delayed the vote, that it would not -- that they would be fine with that, essentially that they would support.

And his secretary, his energy secretary, essentially was backing up that earlier today when she was on CNN saying that, if there's not a vote today, it is not the end of the world in the White House's eyes. Of course, it's a massive change from what Democrats had been expecting to happen, when they wanted to vote on Monday, delayed it until today.

But I think the White House is acknowledging the reality here, which is that there is not an agreement for there to be a vote. And so if they push the vote, that is the reality that they're being met with here on this Thursday.

CABRERA: We will see how Speaker Pelosi responds to this latest headline from Jayapal, those comments we just brought to our viewers live on our air.

Kaitlan Collins, Lauren Fox, ladies, I love the wine-colored outfits we all have on today. Excellent reporting. Thank you both so much.

A new and urgent warning for pregnant women and breast-feeding mothers, why the CDC says you should all get vaccinated fast.

Plus: Britney Spears is finally free, at least from her father's control. So, what's next for the pop star after her big win in her conservatorship case?

And the NBA hits unvaccinated players where it hurts, their bank accounts. But will holdout stars like Kyrie Irving, Andrew Wiggins finally get their shot?

We will discuss with NBA legend Isaiah Thomas.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:16:33]

CABRERA: Welcome back.

The CDC today with an urgent pandemic warning for pregnant women: Get vaccinated. The health alert coming after they say 22 pregnant women died of COVID just last month, the most in one month since the pandemic began.

The agency also saying, compared to other COVID patients, pregnant women are twice as likely to need intensive care and 70 percent more likely to die. The other alarming numbers, right now, only 31 percent of all pregnant women are vaccinated, and just under 16 percent of pregnant black women.

With us now is Dr. Sujatha Reddy. She's a board-certified OB-GYN for Premier Care for Women in Atlanta.

Doctor, thanks for being with us.

It is staggering how many pregnant women aren't vaccinated. And then there's the racial disparities that's also very concerning. Why do you think this is happening?

DR. SUJATHA REDDY, PREMIER CARE FOR WOMEN: Yes, nice to be with you Ana.

I think it's happening because there's obviously a concern with pregnant women for their child. And we're seeing people be fearful of this vaccine when they're not pregnant. When you're pregnant, obviously, your main concern is your child. And so it kind of makes sense that there was some hesitancy early on.

We have now vaccinated hundreds of thousands of women, tens of thousands who became pregnant. And it's crystal clear that the benefit of the vaccine outweighs any potential risk. So you may have been fearful six months ago, but, by now, we have seen this vaccine is very safe.

CABRERA: So, do you feel that O.B.s overall are in support of their patients getting COVID vaccines? Or are you concerned that the reason the numbers are so low is that the right information is just not getting to these women or even to their doctors? REDDY: That's a great question.

I think, as OB-GYNs, we have been recommending this vaccine because the CDC has recommended it to pregnant women. The American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, Society of Maternal Fetal-Medicine specialists, which are the high risk O.B.s all are in agreement that pregnant women should get the COVID vaccine.

So I think it's just a little bit of a time lag from that message getting across, people realizing that the vaccine has now been out and been delivered to thousands and thousands of pregnant women, and it does appear to be safe.

I think we also need to tell women, just like you said, that pregnant women are at higher risk for severe complications and they're at risk for complications with the pregnancy. Things like preterm labor has been seen for women who get COVID during pregnancy. So that message doesn't need to get out there.

CABRERA: I mean, unfortunately, we have talked a lot about all these conspiracy theories that are out there and a lot of misinformation about COVID and the vaccines that have really perforated some of the information avenues that exist.

What are you hearing from hesitant patients. What are their biggest concerns?

REDDY: Their biggest fear is that this vaccine may harm them or their unborn child.

But we have dealt with this in pregnancy. There's a lot of things that happen. Pregnant women are difficult patients because you have got a mom and a baby. You have two patients. And pregnant women, they don't want to take anything that could potentially harm their child.

So here we are, in 2020, 2021, asking them to take a vaccine that's brand-new. So I understand the hesitancy, especially early on, but I think, by now, we have given this vaccine to so many women, women that have gotten pregnant, women that delivered a baby, women who plan to get pregnant, and there's been no findings of any concerns.

[13:20:00]

So, we had the same problem when we recommended the flu vaccine to pregnant woman, but we have done a good job of that. We're going to keep encouraging pregnant women to get this, because no baby should grew up without their mom.

CABRERA: And I think it is so important for our viewers to also know that not only is there no harm from this vaccine to pregnant women and their unborn children, but there's actually helpfulness by this vaccine.

And there's added protection for the baby after birth, as we have just learned from some recent research that came out, showing that babies have the antibodies from the vaccine after they're born. So there's even more of a reason to get vaccinated to help your child.

Dr. Reddy, thank you so much for offering us your expertise and sharing your words of wisdom with our viewers as well. Really appreciate it.

REDDY: Thank you.

CABRERA: A big win for Britney Spears, finally getting released from her father's control. But this is not the end of her conservatorship drama.

Stay with us. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:25:52]

CABRERA: Breaking news in the long running investigation into how the FBI looked into Russia's interference in the 2016 election.

CNN can now exclusively report that special counsel John Durham, who was appointed by the Trump Justice Department to -- quote -- "investigate the investigators," has issued a new set of subpoenas.

CNN senior justice correspondent Evan Perez is joining us with this exclusive reporting.

Evan, what have you learned?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ana, these new subpoenas that John Durham has now issued, these are grand jury subpoenas that have gone to, among a number of people, Perkins Coie. This is the law firm that represented Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign.

And what it appears to show is that Durham is still trying to investigate, trying to bring perhaps a broader case. If you remember, earlier this month, he indicted a lawyer by the name of Michael Sussmann, a lawyer with Perkins Coie who represented the Clinton campaign, and accused Sussmann of lying to the FBI in a 2016 meeting, in which he presented -- Sussmann presented some information that appeared to show some computer traffic between Donald Trump's organization, the Trump Organization, and Alfa Bank, a Russian bank.

According to Durham, this was done on behalf of the Clinton campaign, even though Sussmann allegedly did not represent himself as representing the Clinton campaign. This is an investigation that is still ongoing. It appears to show that Durham wants to bring a broader case, perhaps even adding charges to Sussmann or perhaps charging additional people.

One of them we know that Sussmann was also representing was a tough tech executive by the name of Ronald (sic) Joffe, who was one of the people who was working on this research that showed this traffic between Trump Organization and Alfa Bank.

CABRERA: Well, let's just cut to the chase here because, at this point, after more than two years, Durham has produced two indictments both for making false statements.

PEREZ: Right.

CABRERA: It seems like he's not delivering that big fish that former President Trump and Attorney General Bill Barr promised.

PEREZ: Right, exactly. After two-and-a-half years or so, there's only been these two indictments. And they, frankly, have been very thin.

This charge against Sussmann is simply one charge for lying to the FBI. And, look, one of the things that appears to be happening in this indictment is, he's drawing this larger picture that accuses the Clinton campaign of being part of a dirty tricks campaign against Trump to try to dirty up Trump with the FBI.

Again, this is not something that he's actually charging so far. This is just he's trying to make this allegation in these court documents. I should add, we did get a statement from Joffe, Ronald (sic) Joffe's attorney, which I should just read a part of.

It says that Durham so far, his indictment is "full of cherry-picked portions of e-mails and selective facts that gratuitously present an incomplete and misleading picture of his actions -- of Joffe's actions and his role in the events in question."

CABRERA: Evan Perez, thank you for your reporting.

Back to our top story. Speaker Nancy Pelosi doesn't appear to have the votes. The head of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal, revealing moments ago that members of her caucus will not support the more-than-$1-trillion bipartisan infrastructure bill unless they reach an agreement with Senate moderates on a second, even larger reconciliation bill.

In fact, she says that bill needs to pass both chambers first.

Joining us now is the vice chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee of Texas.

Congresswoman, thank you for being with us.

It's a busy, busy day there on Capitol Hill, and so much for this country is on the line right now.

What's going to happen next?

REP. SHEILA JACKSON LEE (D-TX): Well, Ana, first of all, thank you for having me.

Let me give you a bit of good news. And that is that yesterday, mid- morning, early morning, we didn't have the votes for the elevating of the debt -- providing debt relief, something that is done every year, done by Mitch McConnell in 2019, when he said America cannot default.

Isn't that interesting? And done under the Constitution dealing with full faith and credit.