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Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-TX) Discusses Top House Progressive Saying "There Aren't the Votes to Pass" Infrastructure Bill; Judge Ends Jamie Spear's Control over Daughter's Estate, Hearing in November to Consider Dissolving Conservatorship; NBA: Unvaccinated Players Could Lose Pay for Missing Games; Facebook CEO Grilled on Report Instagram "Toxic". Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired September 30, 2021 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00]

REP. SHEILA JACKSON LEE (D-TX): Let me give you a bit of good news. Yesterday, mid-morning, early morning, we didn't have the votes for the elevating of the debt -- providing debt relief, something that is done every year.

Done by Mitch McConnell in 2019 when he said America cannot default. Isn't that interesting? And done under the Constitution dealing with full faith and credit.

We won that with 219 votes for the American people, including a Republican that was bipartisan. I am an optimist as it relates on what happens to the American people.

What I think is next is this. Frankly, we cannot move forward on the Invest Act. As a member of the Budget Committee we had an all-day and into the night markup on Saturday to be prepared to move the Build Back Better Act.

We worked for the American people. We worked for paid leave. We worked for childcare, K-12 or early childhood education. We worked for the climate change, that some people said they cannot live without.

So I think the next step will be that we extend our work week. We continue to work and we acknowledge that the Invest Act is important. It's important to my constituents in the state of Texas and the nation.

But it will not be my way or the highway. And it will not be what we can do today, we won't do, we'll push off until tomorrow.

And that's what is being told to us about build back, not our speaker, who has been working without ceasing for us to move forward.

But I think what will need to happen is cooler heads will prevail and we'll get a number from the Senate.

Ana, we've not gotten a number to be able to craft a Build Back Better --

(CROSSTALK)

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: But Manchin, Senator Manchin just said his top line is $1.5 trillion. Is that something that you can work with?

JACKSON LEE: Well, his top line, a beginning.

And what he's saying is he's telling the president of the United States, the leader of the nation and, frankly, the leader of the Democratic Party, that he's not willing to sit down with him and cooperate on what might be the best number.

He has a number, but what is the best number? And I think that's going to take work.

And, good. I think it is good that Senator Manchin has said $1.5 trillion in terms of a starting point. We have Senator Sinema as well. So what is her number or is she ceding to her number?

We are legislators.

(CROSSTALK)

JACKSON LEE: And I don't think we cede to the point of leaving out millions of Americans who are desperate for federal Medicaid programs and desperate for childcare. Ana, we can't leave them out.

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: I hear you. I hear you, Congresswoman, respectfully. I -- I understand that you are working really hard to get that additional investment for your constituents.

But right now, the bipartisan infrastructure bill does provide your state of Texas a lot, $27 billion for roads, more than $500 million to repair bridges and $3 billion for public transportation, $408 million for electric car-changing stations, you know, $100 million for broadband Internet, for example.

Senators Manchin and -- they already passed that in the Senate. Can your caucus afford to be the reason that that's held hostage, that that could potentially fail, that they could end up with nothing at all?

JACKSON LEE: It won't fail because we'll have the opportunity to pause, not put it on the floor, frankly, and give us the opportunity, Ana, to do as -- as you are so rightly saying, provide those dollars for our constituents but not leave the working and unworking women of America standing on the highway of despair.

Working women or women were the highest victims of COVID-19 as it relates to the workers and we're trying to restore that with a care economy.

But climate change was left out of the Invest Act and everybody recognizes, in my state, the freeze that killed 150 people.

Here's what's important. We haven't walked away. We're walking towards a negotiation.

The president needs to give us more time. The president needs to reinforce with the Senate and these two Senators in particular, if they are representing others, that they need to have a reasonable number to come to the table to be able to make sure that we have the Invest Act and Build Back.

We are not talking away from either of them. We need a little bit more time. We can get more time. Don't put the bill on the floor and allow us to work and get more time on behalf of the American people. I think that's the most crucial thing.

I will never abandon my constituents or the nation. The Republicans abandoned their nation yesterday when only one Republican would not raise the debt level consistent with the Constitution and the protection of the general welfare of the American people.

We, the governing party, are not going to do that, but we're not going to abandon portions who can most likely not speak for themselves.

CABRERA: Why don't you listen to what we heard from Joe Manchin just this morning. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): It's a shame for that because no two bills should ever be linked together where you're going to let perfect be the enemy of the good. I've been around for an awful long time in state and now in federal politics and that should never be the case.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[13:35:09]

CABRERA: Why not pass the bill everyone agrees on that's going to provide help for all Americans and then negotiate the reconciliation bill?

JACKSON LEE: Ana, let me tell you, we've already compromised because the Invest Act and Build Back were one bill. But what happened is, out of compromise and respect for those who had a difference of opinion of priorities, they got separated.

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: Well, that was Speaker Pelosi who separated though, right? She's the one who uncoupled them. She made the self-imposed deadline --

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: -- of when the vote was going to take place today.

So was that a mistake?

JACKSON LEE: No, it certainly was not. Because she was acting as both a legislator and a leader.

Because what happened is the bills were together in our initial -- that was the president's agenda. It was an infrastructure, what we call the nuts and bolts, and then he was advocating for the care economy. They were one bill.

But what happened is -- this is before. What happened was the insistence of we wouldn't go on this one.

And so what was directed is a group of members, Senators, not related to any of the jurisdictional committees, just got together and formed this partnership for the Invest Act.

But this was already one bill. And so it's not where we're separating. We're just putting them back together.

And I insist. And those who believe that we're acting on behalf of the president's agenda and the American people, 96 percent believe in this Build Back Act.

I would say to Senator Manchin, let's sit down at the table and let your number go beyond $1.5 trillion and let us help West Virginians and help Arizonans and help the nation. That's where we are.

(CROSSTALK)

JACKSON LEE: And if we don't have the vote count, there's nothing that we can -- in terms of turning somersaults to do it.

But we can be optimistic and stay in the room until we get these bills ready to be passed for the American people with the president's effort and work. That must be included.

Let me just give you one example. I think the --

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: What do you mean that must be included? You don't think he's doing enough yet?

JACKSON LEE: No, I'm not saying that. That must be included in the ongoing process. This is Thursday. Must be included Friday or Saturday or Sunday.

But LBJ didn't have the votes for the 1964 Voting Rights Act, the 1965 Voting Rights Act. But you have to get in there and tell members that this is for the nation. And that's what happened and we changed America. These bills will change America.

We've got to get in the room and make the difference, work with the speaker, who has been doing an outstanding job, and the president has been doing so.

But we must work such in the House. The president can work effectively with Leader Schumer in the United States Senate.

Those Senators must give a number that will bring us to the table. Just plain and simple.

(CROSSTALK)

JACKSON LEE: It's for our fellow Americans.

CABRERA: Congresswoman, Sheila Jackson Lee, we really appreciate your time. Thanks so much for joining us.

JACKSON LEE: Ana, thanks for having me. Good to be with you.

CABRERA: The NBA drawing a line, announcing, if you aren't vaccinated, you won't get paid if you're forced to miss games due to COVID-19 mandates. I'll talk to a former player and NBA Hall of Famer, Isaiah Thomas, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:43:09]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEW ROSENGART, ATTORNEY FOR BRITNEY SPEARS: It's a great day for Britney Spears. And it's a great day for justice.

(CHEERING)

ROSENGART: And there's definitely something to celebrate. But it's also a solemn day. Britney Spears has been faced with a decade-long nightmare, a tough nightmare, orchestrated by her father and others.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: That was the attorney for Britney Spears speaking to a crowd of Free Britney supporters after a Los Angeles judge suspended her father, Jamie Spears, as her conservator.

This is a major victory in the pop star's 13-year fight to regain control of her life.

That fight, however, isn't over yet. A hearing to consider Britney's request to end her conservatorship all together is set for November 12th.

Joining us today is Liz Day. She is the co-creator of "The New York Times'" documentaries, "Controlling Britany Spears" and "Framing Britney Spears."

You've been following this for so long and done so many deep dives into her case. What's your reaction to this major moment for Britney?

LIZ DAY, CO-CREATOR, "THE NEW YORK TIMES'" DOCUMENTARIES "FRAMING BRITINEY SPEARS" & "CONTROLLING BRITNEY SPEARS": This was huge news. Britney Spears woke up this morning without her father in her life, which is a very, very big deal.

CABRERA: Her dad is out. So explain why Britney isn't technically free of this conservatorship yet.

DAY: So at yesterday's hearing, the judge decided to remove Jamie. And then Britney's lawyer requested another hearing in November for them to decide whether to end the conservatorship completely.

CABRERA: Do you know, is it Britney's goal to be completely free of anyone else involved, or she just didn't want her dad in charge?

DAY: I mean, she said multiple times, at her speech in June in court, she said, "I want this conservatorship over with. I want my life back."

[13:45:01]

CABRERA: So walk us through the next steps.

DAY: So now Jamie has gone from Britney's life.

And very interestingly, Jamie's lawyers and Jamie have to hand over all of their files to Britney's lawyer, who is a very aggressive former prosecutor and wants to do a full investigation into the last 13 years.

So presumably, there's going to be some sort of accountability and examination of Jamie and others.

CABRERA: Do you think yesterday's ruling would have been possible without all the exposure, reporting like your own, and such a strong push from her fans, which really, you know, put this in the spotlight what was happening with the conservatorship?

DAY: I think all credit goes to Britney for speaking out in June. That was really the game-changer that led to where we were yesterday.

And I also think her fans and the Free Britney movement were definitely the ones, you know, shining a spotlight on her situation.

CABRERA: I want to shine a spotlight on some of your reporting because, just this week, you and your colleagues at "The New York Times" reported on a surveillance system that her father allegedly set up in her house, which Britney's lawyer actually brought up in court.

And I quote. He said, "We learned Mr. Spears did something unfathomable. He instructed a security team, paid for by my client, to place a listening device in Britney's bedroom."

Jamie Spears' lawyer responded, there's no evidence, this is rhetoric.

So tell us more about what you uncovered here and where do you think the legal battle goes from here?

DAY: So in our documentary, "Controlling Britney Spears," we got several insiders, including a former staffer for the security firm that Jamie Spears hired to protect Britney, come forward.

And this security staffer detailed the level of control that her father and others had over Britney's life, including secretly recording Britney in her bedroom, which recorded her interactions and her conversations with her boyfriend, her friends, her children and others.

And then they also monitored her phone and all of her texts on her phone, even her texts with her lawyer.

CABRERA: Liz Day, I appreciate your reporting because that's obviously -- that reporting is going to be a piece of how things unfold potentially going forward.

Really appreciate your time. Thanks for joining us.

DAY: Thank you.

CABRERA: No matter how good your jump shot is, the NBA says no COVID shot, no paycheck. The league siding with science, deciding it will dock pay for unvaccinated players who miss games due to local vaccine mandates.

So that means players like Brooklyn Nets star, Kyrie Irving, who, so far, has refused to disclose his vaccine status, could lose over $400,000 per home game.

Let's discuss with basketball legend two-time NBA champion and 12-time NBA all-star, Isaiah Thomas.

It's always good to see you.

What's your reaction to the NBA's decision here? Was it the right move?

ISAIAH THOMAS, FORMER NBA ALL-STAR: It definitely was the right move. And, Ana, that's a lot of money to lose per game.

But I think this is definitely the right way to go. When you don't show up for work, you don't get paid. And there's clear-cut evidence in terms of the science behind what we're asking everyone to do.

And the rules have been laid out. Now the players, they do have a choice now. You can either follow the rules or there are consequences for not following the rules.

The consequences for not following the rules are you lose money from your paycheck.

CABRERA: If the goal is to ultimately get everybody vaccinated, you have to wonder is this going to do the trick, right?

Fellow legend, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, says get vaccinated or just remove players from the team all together. He says there's no room for unvaccinated players.

What do you think about that? Should the NBA take this even a step further?

THOMAS: No. I think that the NBA and also sports has always been the place where we set the example.

And, you know, if you start moving -- if you start removing people from the team, then does it spill out into society where you start removing people from society?

I think we all have, to you know, understand that, in all of our lives -- and I grew up extremely poor, didn't have the best of health care, didn't have access to the best of health care.

And we all understand right now that the health care system does have its ups and downs in terms of information.

So I think we give all these players and everyone in society, who are dealing with this decision about getting vaccinated, you know, have you to understand where they are coming from, from a personal standpoint.

But the collectiveness of us coming together is what's going to beat this virus.

CABRERA: I mentioned Kyrie Irving, who has gotten a lot of attention over this issue lately. He's not only a great player. He's also a vice president of the NBA Players Association. So he's leading on and off the court.

[13:50:09]

If you're Kyrie's teammate right now, what are you saying to him?

THOMAS: I'm giving him time because I know we're in training camp. I understand, you know, that we need him to win.

But I also have to, you know, be compassionate and understanding of what his upbringing may have been, what his beliefs may be.

And as we know, Ana, you know, if people believe it, then they tend to believe that it's true. So, we have to give everyone enough time to kind of work through this.

But I do think, if I was a teammate of his, giving him that time, understanding, most of all, backgrounds, in terms of dealing with not having great access to health care, believing, maybe, what some of our parents or cousins or relatives are saying.

There's a lot going on in terms of making this decision.

And by the way, I just want everybody to know I'm double vaccinated, waiting on the booster.

So -- but I do understand that people do have some complexity around this issue and it may not be as cut and dry as we think.

CABRERA: Well, it's people like you -- we know LeBron James has gotten vaccinated and he made that public as well, which have influence. You know, you are influencers.

Thank you so much for taking the time to share thoughts and perspectives with us today, Isaiah Thomas.

THOMAS: You're welcome and thank you.

CABRERA: A top Facebook executive getting grilled on Capitol Hill today after a new report revealed the company knew its Instagram app was toxic to young girls. How the company explains it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:56:41]

CABRERA: Right now, a top Facebook executive is getting grilled on Capitol Hill about the impact its platform Instagram has on teenagers.

Now, this hearing comes after "The Wall Street Journal" published leaked internal documents revealing that Facebook wasn't just aware of its negative impacts, but that it failed to address them.

One leaked document admitted, quote, "We make body image issues worse for one in three teen girls."

Another, "Teens blame Instagram for increases in the rate of anxiety and depression. This reaction was unprompted and consistent across all groups."

CNN's Donie O'Sullivan is following this today.

Donie, how is this Facebook executive answering to this?

DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Ana. It's pretty remarkable to watch.

You see Facebook here is now trying to downplay and, frankly, discredit its own research, research that might not be -- put the company in a very positive sense in a public light.

I want to show you this exchange between that Facebook executive and the Senators. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTIGONE DAVIS, DIRECTOR, GLOBAL HEAD OF SAFETY, FACEBOOK: I want to be clear that this research is not a bombshell. It's not causal research. It's, in fact, just --

(CROSSTALK)

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): Now, I beg to differ with you, Ms. Davis. This research is a bombshell. It is powerful, gripping, riveting evidence that Facebook knows of the harmful effects of its site on children and that it has concealed those facts and findings.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'SULLIVAN: And Senator Blumenthal there, he said his staff actually ran an experiment. They set up an Instagram account and said they were 13-year-old girl. They followed a couple of accounts about extreme dieting and other issues.

And Instagram, within a day, its algorithm began recommending to this account, which all Instagram knew was a 13-year-old girl, accounts promoting self-harm and extreme dieting.

So, I mean, there, really, that simple experiment is able to show just how dangerous and how problematic this platform can be for teenagers.

There's a very big hearing. We're talking about all of this because of those leaked Facebook documents.

The whistle-blower in this case, who is still anonymous, is going public on Tuesday, will be doing some TV interviews over the weekend but will be appearing before Congress on tuesday, that Facebook whistle-blower.

So that will certainly be a hearing to watch.

CABRERA: So, what are they planning to do about this? As you point out, now this is public, so they have to take action, one would think. Have they come out and said what their plan of action is?

O'SULLIVAN: Yes, I mean, I think that was what was very frustrating for the Senators today was they weren't getting any clear answers.

And I mean, I think it was notable that Facebook decided to send, you know, a pretty senior executive here, but didn't send their boss. They didn't send the CEO of Instagram or they didn't send the CEO of Facebook, Mark Zuckerberg.

So I think Senators are quite frustrated that Facebook/Instagram is not giving those answers of tangible things they are going to do to solve this problem.

CABRERA: Donie O'Sullivan, really appreciate it. Thank you for staying on top of it.

[13:59:55]

More pandemic news now. And this time, we're going to talk about the Olympics, as in, the next Olympics.

The International Olympic Committee saying today, fans will be welcome at next year's winter Olympics in Beijing but only if they live in China.