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Interview With Rep. Cori Bush (D-MO); Infrastructure Negotiations. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired September 30, 2021 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: The International Olympic Committee saying today fans will be welcome at next year's Winter Olympics in Beijing, but only if they live in China, meaning international spectators, including family members of athletes, won't be allowed.

As far as vaccines, well, they're still not being mandated, but athletes not fully vaccinated and will be required to do a 21-day quarantine. Beijing's Winter Olympic Games begin February 4.

Monica Lewinsky is speaking out today about her struggles with mental health. In a new interview with David Axelrod, she discusses the anguish she experienced around the time of her affair with then- President Bill Clinton and how it even led her to contemplate taking her own life.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

MONICA LEWINSKY, ACTIVIST: I just couldn't see a way out. And I thought that maybe, maybe that was the solution, and had even asked, which is -- this is also an interesting point of just, I had asked the OIC lawyers about, what happens if I die?

And as...

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Oh, my goodness.

LEWINSKY: Yes, as more of an adult now, I think back, how is there not a protocol? Like, that's a point where you're supposed to bring a psychologist in or something. How is that not a breaking point?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: In a 2014 essay published in "Vanity Fair," Lewinsky said that she never attempted suicide, but that she had strong suicidal temptation several times during the investigation and one or two periods after.

If you or a loved one is contemplating suicide, there is help out there. Call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273- 8255, or text TALK to 741741.

Thank you for being with us today. Quick break.

Stay with us. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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[14:06:28]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Welcome to NEWSROOM. Sorry about that slight technical snafu that caused us to be a few minutes late.

I'm Alisyn Camerota.

We have a lot to get to today. Lots happening on Capitol Hill. Things are changing as they -- as we speak. We're waiting on the final House vote to fund the government to avoid a shutdown, a government shutdown, at midnight tonight.

So Democrats are on track to meet that deadline. But it is still very up in the air as to whether they will vote on that bipartisan infrastructure plan you have heard so much about. As you know, today was their self-imposed deadline. Not sure if they will make it to the vote.

Progressives in the House have flat out said they will reject that legislation unless it is coupled with the bigger, more expensive 3.5 Build Back Better deal, as they call it.

We do, however, now finally had a top line on what Senator Joe Manchin, who's been a holdout, has said he wants that number to be.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): My top line has been 1.5 because I believe in my heart that what we can do and what -- the needs we have right now and what we can afford to do, without basically changing our whole society to an entitlement mentality.

My goodness, you have an infrastructure bill. You have got this bill we have right now. And we have a reconciliation bill. I'm willing to sit down and work through that 1.5 to get my priorities. And they can come back and do later and they can run on the rest of it later.

I think there's many ways to get to where they want to, just not in everything at one time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK, let's bring in our congressional correspondent, Ryan Nobles, and our senior White House correspondent, Phil Mattingly.

Guys, thanks so much for being here.

So, Ryan, what's been the progressive response?

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the progressives view $1.5 trillion as a nonstarter. That's just not enough for them in this negotiation process. And Senator Manchin putting it on the record today not really that big of a surprise. He's been hinting for a while that 1.5 was his ceiling. He told our own Dana Bash that on her "STATE OF THE UNION" program not too long ago.

But this is what we know about what Manchin is looking for, based on a document that he and the Senate majority leader, Chuck Schumer, worked on together a couple of months ago. Manchin said in that document that 1.5 trillion was the max that he was willing to go to. He didn't even want debate on this to begin until October 1.

That's tomorrow, if you're keeping score at home, not today, when progressives wanted this all to be done by. He also wants to block any funds from the bill until all the COVID relief money has already been spent, because there's a lot of COVID relief money from the prior aid packages that still has not gone out yet.

He also wants to keep the corporate tax rate around 25 percent and the top individual rate at just under 40 percent at 39.6 percent. Now, there's a chasm between what Joe Manchin is looking for and what House progressives and really Senate progressives are looking for right now.

They have said from the beginning that $3.5 trillion was their -- that was their compromise. Remember, they wanted $6 trillion when they initially started this process

And Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal, she has been the leading progressive negotiator during this process. She just left a meeting in House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's office. And this is how she responded to Joe Manchin's top line number.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Can that be done with a $1.5 trillion reconciliation package?

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): Well, look, there's no number. I don't have a number. I don't have a number.

QUESTION: But that's the Manchin -- the number that Manchin is putting out.

JAYAPAL: Well, that's what he tells you. But that's not what ultimately is going to be the package.

[14:10:03]

QUESTION: That's what he told -- he said to Schumer.

JAYAPAL: Well, whatever. I don't have an offer in front of me.

My number is 3.5. Our number is 3.5. Somebody has a different offer, then they can put in on the table. You don't negotiate against yourself. If you go to buy a house, you don't put down an offer and then before an offer has even been put down on the table, suddenly say, OK, I'm willing to go down another $100,000. Anybody done that? I don't think so. That's not how we negotiate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBLES: And so what you hear the congresswoman saying there is that they're not negotiating directly, progressives and moderates. It's kind of being done through the White House and also being done through the leadership in the House and Senate.

And so either side is really unmoved in this process. And that means that this vote that's supposed to take place today on the bipartisan infrastructure package is really in peril. The House speaker has not yet pulled the bill or said that she's going to delay it at any point.

But what I was most struck by today, Alisyn, was when she was asked about it, when Congresswoman Jayapal was asked about the vote, she was fine. She said, let's have it, and we will vote it down. They're not afraid to do that. And that position has not changed over the course of these negotiations -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: So, Phil, how is President Biden taking all of this in?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: You know what is interesting? We haven't heard from the president or any White House officials over the course of the day so far.

White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki is scheduled to brief. It's unclear if perhaps we will hear from the president today, obviously, a very perilous moment for his entire agenda, not just because of the bipartisan infrastructure bill that very clearly at this point doesn't have the votes, but also just the sheer scale of the divide between where Senator Manchin is and where progressives are.

And keep in mind, where progressives are where the president was. This was the plan that he proposed. This is the plan he campaigned on. This is the plan that he thought could be transformative for the country's economy.

Now he's going to have to scale it back. And here's why. You can have as many transformative plans as you as you want. It doesn't matter if you don't have the votes for them. In the United States Senate, every single senator has the ability with one vote to kill or make a plan, when you only have 50 votes in the United States Senate, which is what President Biden is dealing with right now.

Now, behind the scenes, Alisyn, over the course of the last several days, the president has met for more than an hour with Joe Manchin. He has spoken by phone with him, obviously same with Kyrsten Sinema, the other moderate senator.

He has a pretty good idea of where these senators are. I think the big question now is, what are the steps going forward, not just with that infrastructure proposal, but for his entire agenda, given what we have seen over the course of the last few hours?

CAMEROTA: OK, Phil Mattingly, Ryan Nobles, thanks for setting the table for us.

So, as you just heard, progressives are so frustrated with moderates Democratic Senators Kyrsten Sinema and Joe Manchin. Here's Congresswoman Cori Bush, putting it bluntly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. CORI BUSH (D-MO): Have Kyrsten Sinema come to my district and meet with my folks in St. Louis. Have her come and meet with those that sleep on the street. Have her come and meet with those who have to go to the food pantry once a month and still don't have enough food to make it through the month.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: And Congresswoman Cori Bush of Missouri joins me now.

Congresswoman, thank you so much for your time. I know it's a super busy day on Capitol Hill. We have been looking forward to talking to you, particularly since we found out what Joe Manchin wants. He has put out some details.

I will put those up for our viewers. He wants the top line on that Build Back Better plan to be $1.5 trillion, in other words, not $3.5 trillion. He wants to begin debate October 1, so not today be the deadline. He wants to block any funds from this reconciliation bill being used until the COVID relief funds are exhausted, and then a corporate tax rate of 25 percent of the top line, top individual tax rate 39.6.

What does this change for you?

BUSH: This is absolutely absurd.

We are talking about people's lives and livelihoods. We're talking about people who need relief now. We're talking about those who elected us to come here and bring home deliverables because some of them were already struggling pre-COVID.

And for him to say that it's good enough to -- let's push some things to the side, let's lower this number, we want to make -- those his requests, are he talking about regular everyday people in our communities?

Because, if he's not, let me introduce him to some. And, as a matter of fact, he can come and speak with me. I can tell him what it's like to be a regular everyday person needing the benefits that will come with a real reconciliation package, which we made the deal with already.

So, the compromise was the $3.5 trillion. So, if he needs -- if he just wants to talk to somebody about it, like, come talk to me, and I will tell you what it's like to not be able to pay for your child care, to not be able to pay for your medications and your rent at the same time. We can talk about what it's like to not be able to go to college

because you cannot afford it. He and I can have that conversation. Or he can come to my district and talk about it.

This is -- the fact that one person who is not affected by what would come out of this Build Back Better act, he's not affected by it personally, but the people in our communities all across this country are.

[14:15:03]

They deserve a voice. The people have to win. And it is unconscionable that he can stand puffed up and hold the line on something that hurts people now. And to say that I will toss you some crumbs right now, and then hopefully you can say you ate, it's not good enough and I won't stand for it.

CAMEROTA: The last we heard was from Speaker Pelosi that this vote on the bipartisan infrastructure bill was still going to happen today. Is that your understanding?

BUSH: I'm hearing both that it can, that it may not, just kind of going on back and forth.

But, either way, I'm ready, because if it comes to the floor, I'm voting it -- I'm voting no. So, hopefully, my colleagues are going to hold the line, which we have had conversations, and they are and ready. We are ready to vote it down today.

We're ready if it comes to the floor.

CAMEROTA: But you are hearing from Nancy Pelosi or other leaders that they may be delaying it?

BUSH: Yes, I mean, I have actually seen some social media that said that, so I'm not -- it's not -- I need to hear from the speaker.

And I will know when they call our votes.

CAMEROTA: Why don't you believe that if you vote today on the $1.5 trillion bipartisan infrastructure that you will ultimately get what you want?

Why don't you have faith -- or 1.2, $1.2 trillion. Why don't you have faith that you will then be able to get a bigger social safety net spending bill?

BUSH: Because the two main people who have been the most outspoken and who have had all the conversations with the White House, the two folks, Senators Manchin and Sinema, who are the ones that have been the ones to stall, what I would say, this process, they haven't cared to take care of our communities up to now, regular everyday people up to now.

The fact that we're having this conversation, the fact that this still is going on, that says to me that they -- I can't trust them with the people of St. Louis, not at all. And so I don't trust them to take care of them after they get what they want. If they got that vote -- if the vote happened today, and if it passed, I don't trust them to take care of St. Louis.

And so I will hold out and make sure that St. Louis gets what we need. If it has to go past today, I'm ready to stay here. Look, this is our work as Congress members, as legislators here in the United States. We are in this federal position to make sure that our nation is taken care of.

And that has to mean we start with those who have the very least. And if they're not willing to do it, someone else will, just like he said. Maybe you need to -- I heard him say that -- Senator Manchin say that you need to elect more progressive, more liberals, he said.

Well, you know what? Let's do that.

CAMEROTA: Do you worry at all, Congresswoman, that if you vote down the $1.2 trillion infrastructure plan and all of the jobs that would come with it, that you progressives and Democrats as a whole and even President Biden will be held responsible at the polling booth in the midterms and then for President Biden's reelection?

BUSH: I believe we will get a reconciliation package.

CAMEROTA: Meaning that, if you vote it down...

BUSH: Meaning that this is not the end, meaning that this is not the end. This is not the end, If we vote that down today, it's not the end.

We continue to work. We continue to build. We continue to legislate. I do not believe that, today, that this is the end if we vote this down, and that the people won't receive what they need.

No, what this is, is people believing in what we said. If we say that we need these investments for our communities, then we meant what we said, and so hold us to that. So, I'm not one -- I'm not a person to say one thing and mean another. I'm not one person to say one thing and bend.

St. Louis does not deserve somebody who will bend or compromise. I'm willing to work with people. But when I give you my answer, that's my answer. No is no. Yes is yes. There's no -- nothing in between.

So we will continue to work after today, because it's our job to do so.

CAMEROTA: I'd like to switch gears, Congresswoman, to the other -- another really important committee hearing that happened today and something very personal, and that was that you publicly shared your story of having an abortion as a teenager.

And your story, Congresswoman, is heartbreaking on so many levels. You were 17 years old on a church trip. You say you were raped by a young man on that trip, and you got pregnant, and you were broke. And you -- if you not had an abortion, you would have had to carry your rapist's child to term.

Why today did you feel it was important to share that personal story?

[14:20:05]

BUSH: With the attacks all over this country with all of these anti- abortion bans, these new laws, from Texas to my own state of Missouri, where we have the -- where the state legislature did pass a law to ban abortions at eight weeks, with no restrictions for incest or rape, I was not equipped, I was not able, I was not well enough at the time to carry a child or to have a child, let alone to have the child of a rapist.

I -- it was my decision to make. It was one where no one else was going to take care of that child for me. And I feel like, if any -- if there is any moment to speak up, right now, with all this happening, if we feel -- if we are OK with speaking up, for those of us that can -- some won't, and that's OK.

But for those of us that can, we have to step up however we can right now in this moment, because we cannot allow this attack on our bodies, on our rights to happen, right? This is 2021. We cannot allow this to happen.

And not only that. When we talk about today being the 45th anniversary of the Hyde Amendment, we have -- we haven't come far enough. We have so much further to go. But, right now, we can't go backwards. And so I had to speak up, because you know what? My story hopefully and the story of my colleagues, Representatives Barbara Lee and Pramila Jayapal, hopefully, those stories will help change hearts and minds.

CAMEROTA: And I know it's not easy to talk about this. What has it been like to share this story publicly?

BUSH: It's very difficult. It's so much at the same time, because not only am I opening myself up to those things which I kept inside of me for so long that seemed to be like those things that were hurtful and shameful that I just never really dealt with, but also knowing that other people will listen to it and not understand and will just pull it apart, not realizing that they're hurting people in their own communities.

That's why so many people don't come forward, because we don't get the grace, we don't get the mercy to be able to be regular. We don't get that extended to us. And so I could barely speak when I started to give my testimony earlier today. Like, I felt like something was pressing upon my chest.

I just -- it was very difficult. But the more I thought about who could be helped, somebody else needs to hear this, somebody else has gone through this, somebody else may take this, and then maybe we can get some legislation, maybe we can get more pushed through, maybe we can get more pushed through, maybe we can get -- really codify Roe vs. Wade.

We can get this to happen now. And we can push away things like what Senator Manchin said you have, to put Hyde Amendment -- have the Hyde Amendment in the bill?

How -- I am so thankful for those who have stood up and who have been able to be vulnerable in this moment to tell their stories. And I want to speak right now to every single black woman and girl who has been hurt, been pushed back, who has felt like they were unworthy because of the things that not only happened -- that happens all across our health care system.

You know what? You are worthy. Your life matters, you are amazing, you are beautiful, and you hold your head high, whether you have had an abortion or you plan to. You hold -- and that's for everybody. Hold your head high, hold your shoulders back, because this is your decision to make. And you stand strong.

CAMEROTA: Congresswoman Cori Bush, we know this has been a very intense day for you. We really thank you for your time and your message.

BUSH: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Let's bring in now CNN political director David Chalian.

David, there's a lot there, a lot there to talk about. Let's first start with what's happening with these bills and this self-imposed deadline of today to vote on that bipartisan infrastructure plan.

Sounds like that deadline might not be happening today, since it was self-imposed to begin with. We just heard from Congresswoman Cori Bush say that she's hearing things that it might not come up today. Do you know anything? And what do you -- how do you think this is going to play out today?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: I know what, which is that Nancy Pelosi has said multiple times. She doesn't bring votes to the floor that aren't going to pass.

And we heard from the Progressive Caucus after they saw that number from Joe Manchin, that $1.5 trillion number. That did absolutely nothing to assuage their concerns and the distrust that exists inside the Democratic Party that all the agenda items will get through.

[14:25:05]

And so they are continuing down this path, the progressives are, to withhold their support. You just heard it from Congresswoman Bush.

And I think the other thing on the timing, as you note, Alisyn, this is an arbitrary deadline. Unlike the funding of the government, which obviously we just saw the bill passed the Senate and will likely pass the House later, the funding runs out tonight at midnight. That's a real-world deadline.

This is a self-imposed deadline to enact Biden's agenda that Speaker Pelosi made with the moderates in her party in order to try to move that other Build Back Better bill down the field a bit. But Congresswoman Bush was right when she said, this really isn't the

end of this process. So, if Speaker Pelosi decides that their votes aren't there, and she's not going to bring it for a vote, we're going to stay in this negotiation world.

And I think the biggest development today, Alisyn, is that we actually finally have some parameters of what that negotiation, of where that negotiation can take place.

CAMEROTA: But it didn't seem to move the needle at all.

CHALIAN: No.

CAMEROTA: I mean, the fact that Senator Joe Manchin has come out with some of the details of what he's looking for, I will just put it up again, he wants $1.5 trillion for that Build Back Better plan, not $3.5 trillion.

He wants -- he's in no rush. He thinks debate should begin October 1, not any sort of, I guess, vote today on the other stuff. Block any funds from the bill being used until the COVID relief funds are exhausted. That's interesting.

And then the corporate rate of 25 -- tax rate of 25 percent and the top individual tax rate of 39.6. But you just heard from Congresswoman Bush that didn't seem to move the needle in terms of the negotiations. I mean, that's like a nonstarter, I think, for the progressives.

CHALIAN: Well, exactly, Alisyn.

So you have Joe Manchin saying this is a firm top line, and you have the progressives saying, this is a nonstarter. So while there are big developments today, it's a bit like we're marching in place here.

But what I find so intriguing, both Senator Manchin and Senator Sinema in her statement or her office put out a statement today seemed to suggest that Chuck Schumer and Joe Biden have known their numbers. So, in the last couple months, there's been this conversation in the Democratic Party of just Manchin and Sinema should say what their number are, what do they want, what is the top line that they're willing to spend?

But, apparently, Chuck Schumer and Joe Biden have known this number. But perhaps -- and we will find out, I think, as the day goes on -- perhaps they realized it was going to be such a nonstarter with progressives that they didn't throw it out there. I think there will be questions around whether or not this delay to this moment proves to be the right strategy or not.

CAMEROTA: Is Senator Kyrsten Sinema facing pushback now within her own state? Because there's this group that had helped elect her.

And they put out a statement saying: "Arizonans are disappointed and angry. Senator Sinema has proven time and again, with her actions and votes, that she is out of touch with the people she's supposed to represent." Is that an anomaly? Or is she starting to hear things like that in her state?

CHALIAN: There's no doubt, just like you hear from progressives on Capitol Hill, there are progressives in Arizona who are none too pleased with Senator Sinema refusing to support the entirety of President Biden's Build Back Better agenda, that $3.5 trillion reconciliation bill.

She has long said and she made clear again today that that was too expensive for her. Whether or not a left-wing progressive primary challenger actually causes her real harm, remember, Sinema is not up for reelection, Alisyn until '24.

So she's not in cycle right now. There is time for her to work her politics back home long after this moment of the president's agenda is there. But just think of -- flash forward to 2024 for a moment, right?

Joe Biden up for reelection, Kyrsten Sinema up for reelection, Arizona, a major battleground state that Biden flipped from red to blue this last time. No doubt, he will be spending a lot of time there. Are those two people that are going to be sharing the stage together and campaigning on what Biden's accomplished?

Or will there be some bad blood there because perhaps she's responsible for having the Biden agenda get stalled in this first year?

CAMEROTA: I have a hard time thinking 24 hours ahead, much less to 2024.

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: But, David Chalian, thank you for all that context.

CHALIAN: Sure.

CAMEROTA: OK, big developments now in the search for Brian Laundrie. The FBI is back at the Laundrie home after seizing a phone that Laundrie bought apparently just days before he disappeared.

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