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Final Vote to Fund Government and Avoid Shutdown; January 6 Committee Subpoenas Stop the Steal Rally Organizers; Judge Suspends Britney Spears' Father as Head of Conservatorship; LeBron James Confirms He's Vaccinated and Says Not My Job to Sway Others. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired September 30, 2021 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: ... even with the national debt ceiling, that provision and now they'll deal -- they'll have the government funded but they have not dealt with that very, very significant issue, that could have massive ramifications for the economy if they don't resolve that.

So that's the next fight, but this one at the moment they'll avert a crisis, a short-term crisis but another one could be around the corner -- Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Yes, I'll write down in my calendar December 3rd and we can do this all over again.

Meanwhile, Nancy Pelosi is still planning to vote for the bipartisan infrastructure -- I mean planning a vote for the bipartisan infrastructure bill tonight? Because we keep hearing from the progressives that we keep interviewing, that they're not going to vote for it.

RAJU: Yes, it's really hard to see how this vote goes forward other than perhaps putting it on the floor and it being voted down. Even though she has said that that is not what she plans to do. She says she never brings a bill to the floor that will fail. But at the moment, I'm told from a source with direct knowledge of the matter she's still pushing ahead. She's telling her colleagues that the path is to have a vote. She's making phone calls trying to get enough of a coalition together to get this bill forward today.

Remember, we only expect a handful of Republicans to vote for it. They need 218 to approve it in the House, they can only afford to lose three Democrats, let's say all Republicans voted against it.

But the progressives are saying they have several dozen who plan to vote en masse against this as leverage to push moderates in their own caucus to sign onto that larger plan to expand the social safety net.

So how this gets resolved at the moment is really unclear, but the Speaker is not really yet willing to fold, even though many of her allies including our own leadership team say it's time to at least delay the vote, let's worry about it another time. The Speaker at the moment is just not there yet, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Manu Raju, come back to us as soon as you have anything, thank you very much.

All right, new subpoenas for people involved in the riot at the Capitol. Who the January 6th Committee wants to hear from next?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:35:00]

CAMEROTA: The House Select Committee issuing a fresh batch of subpoenas, this time targeting the organizers of the rally on January 6th ahead of the insurrection. Investigators also want to know what former President Trump was doing before and during the deadly assault on the Capitol.

CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Elliott Williams is here. Great to have you here.

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Of course.

CAMEROTA: What's the committee looking for in terms of the organizers of this rally?

WILLIAMS: Yes, it's a few things. Number one, you want to know who knew what when. Did they have any sort of evidence to suggest that they knew there would have been violence or wrongdoing at the rally? Number two, who was communicating with the president at the time and who was communicating with other people at the White House at the time. They probably have some information that suggests that there might have been some sort of agreement between those two parties and that's why they're calling folks in to testify about it.

CAMEROTA: I mean some of them showed up in riot gear, that suggests it's more than just a rally. Just saying.

WILLIAMS: True, however, when you start getting into subpoenas for rally organizers, you start getting into a gray area a little bit. Because people are allowed to convene in the United States. Now, look, riot gear, zip ties are not good under any circumstance, but people do have a right to organize and protest. And this is going to be something the courts are going to be thinking about.

CAMEROTA: As we know, President Trump and his allies never cooperate with these sorts of things, so what if he claims that some of these conversations are executive privilege?

WILLIAMS: Well, some conversations are going to be protected by executive privilege. He's the president of the United States and is allowed to speak to his senior advisers about matters within the scope of the presidency.

Now we're not talking about that, you're talking about him as a candidate, not the president. So, a lot of those things aren't going to be protected by privilege. But courts will just look at, number one, is this Trump the individual, is this Trump the candidate, is this Trump the president? And with a scalpel try to cut up those statements and see what (INAUDIBLE).

CAMEROTA: But I mean on January 6th he was the president.

WILLIAMS: He was the president but he was running for office though and he convened people --

CAMEROTA: No, he had lost.

WILLIAMS: But at the time he was still President of the United States and had convened people in the capacity as a candidate, in effect, challenging the results of an election. It's a blurry, blurry line, Alisyn, and this is like courts are going to have to look at this question. Because, yes, he's president, yes, he'd already lost but your challenging the results of the election. And it blurs the question of like I said where the man begins, the candidate and the private citizen begin. And it's just a different legal ---

CAMEROTA: It's complicated.

WILLIAMS: It's totally complicated and it's a different legal framework for each of the three.

CAMEROTA: Some of his top -- some of the people in his orbit have already been subpoenaed. What if they just say no?

WILLIAMS: Well, there's a few different things Congress can do. Number one, they can refer it to the Justice Department for a criminal penalty. The can go to a court --

CAMEROTA: But do they ever do that? Because I mean I've heard that there's not a lot of teeth to these things. There are not as much teeth as you'd think.

WILLIAMS: Right, well, because if someone is openly and willfully violating a subpoena, yes, that's a criminal offense, right, and that hangs over their head. They can sue in federal court to have a civil penalty or, you know, they have this old penalty from the 19th century where Congress can slap cuffs on the guy themselves and do it. That hasn't been done in about 200 years and it's hard to see how it would work.

CAMEROTA: While you're here, I also want to ask about the Tulsa race massacre.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

CAMEROTA: So, this week the survivors -- and we've seen them before, at least one -- were in court, and they were seeking justice for that.

[15:40:00]

Because, of course, it destroyed their community and it destroyed generations of their wealth and family. I mean, you know, on and on. So, Viola Fletcher, who was 7 on the night it happened, she was back recalling the horror. So let me just play that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VIOLA "MOTHER" FLETCHER, 107-YEAR-OLD SURVIVOR OF TULSA RACE MASSACRE: We scrambled around and got ready to get dressed, and we left in what you call it then, a covered wagon or was drawn by horses, horse and buggy.

On our way out we could see people running and people laying on the ground probably bleeding from being shot and killed and smell smoke with houses burning and heard the noise of airplanes flying, and so it was quite disturbing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: She's incredible. I mean, she's just incredible. Horse and buggy. She's had a long life and seen some horrors, obviously, and so is she owed money?

WILLIAMS: She's definitely owed money. Now the question is how does she get it and what's the legal approach they're doing?

Their lawsuit, my God, Alisyn, it is a brilliant lawsuit but it's a hail Mary. And what they're using is nuisance law. Essentially the same law you would use if someone's blasting a stereo on their yard. Which means if my action if my action, if someone's action gets in the way of your ability to live your life, you can sue on that basis, and that's what they're saying.

They're saying it's a continuing ongoing nuisance, they haven't been able to make lives for themselves, make money and so on stemming from this original event. It's a challenge. It's a stretch. No one's really done it before. But that's the way to try to get justice. You go with a novel legal theory and see what happens in the courts.

CAMEROTA: Elliott Williams, great to have you here. Thanks for everything.

WILLIAMS: OK, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Britney Spears free from her father's conservatorship for the first time in 13 years. Her father's reaction next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:45:00]

CAMEROTA: The attorney for Britney Spear's father, Jamie, is speaking out today defending his client after a judge suspended Jamie for his role overseeing his daughter's conservatorship calling it a quote, toxic environment.

His lawyer offering the following defense, quote, Mr. Spears loves his daughter Britney unconditionally. For 13 years he has tried to do what's in her best interest. This started with agreeing to serve as her conservator when she voluntarily entered into the conservatorship. Respectfully, the court was wrong to suspend Mr. Spears, put a stranger in his place to manage Britney's estate extending the very conservatorship that Britney begged the court to terminate earlier this summer.

Joining me now is the host of "Entertainment Tonight" Nischelle Turner. And Nischelle, great to see as always. This felt like a big victory for Britney Spears and the Free Britney movement, but it's over. There's this other -- there's the next hearing on November 12th about the future of the conservatorship. She's still in a conservatorship, and she had said as you know that she wants to basically press charges against her father for whatever abuse she says she suffered. So, what's next?

NISCHELLE TURNER, HOST, "ENTERTAINMENT TONIGHT": Yes, that's a good question. I mean, she did make that public statement, that public declaration. She hasn't backed off of that, so we don't know what's going to happen in that arena. Some people thought maybe it was posturing just to show the judge just how serious she was about ending her father as her conservator.

But you're right, she is still in a conservatorship. She has a temporary conservator until the end of the year right now until they figure out everything. So, removing her father from the equation was step one for her. That's what her and her team wanted. Now, whether or not a conservatorship at all will continue, that's the next question.

Britney has said that she doesn't mind having a conservator, she just didn't want her father. So, then it kind of morphed into she doesn't want a conservator at all. So, I'm not sure if there's going to be a meeting in the middle.

But it does look that way. I think Alisyn, though, one thing that we should make note, this is tough, this is a family breaking itself apart. And so, you know, her father saying, I tried to do the best for my daughter, but now I have my hands off, I still love her. I don't know if Britney's hearing that. But at the end of the day, it's just sad because we are seeing a broken family.

CAMEROTA: And Nischelle, do we have any sense of what Britney plans to do next? I mean we had heard her in that testimony say that she wants to have a child with her boyfriend. She's now engaged. He's become her fiancee. She's a global pop star, does she still want to produce records? Does she want to go on tour, or does she just want out of all of this?

TURNER: That is the $64 million question. I think Britney hasn't in 13 years been able to really decide what she wanted to do and really have that freedom to make whatever choice she wants to make. She has said publicly and she's been adamant about the fact that she wants to have more kids. So says her fiancee Sam Asghari, he wants to have a family. So, it would not surprise me if they tried to have a baby.

Britney is a creative. She loves to dance. She loves to sing. It wouldn't surprise me if we still saw her in some way, shape, or form making music. I'm not sure if that means another Vegas residency. But I do think she will still be making music. As far as her personal life, you know, she posted yesterday, Alisyn,

that she's on cloud nine. I think that that this situation, because we knew the judge could go this route by suspending her father from the conservatorship, it could go that route yesterday, but we didn't really think it would. It was a surprise. I think it was a surprise to her. So, it's probably a lot just to wrap her brain around now to what do I do now? Where do I go now, and what does the future look like when I don't have what she considered an albatross on her back anymore?

CAMEROTA: Let's talk LeBron James.

TURNER: OK.

CAMEROTA: LeBron James has he has revealed that he has received the COVID vaccine but he seems very reluctant. I mean he is not interested in telling others that they should do so.

[15:50:00]

So let me play for you what he says.

TURNER: Right.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LEBRON JAMES, PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL PLAYER: We're talking about individuals' bodies, you know, we're not talking about something that's, you know, political or racism or police brutality and things of that nature. We're talking about people's bodies and well beings, you know, so I don't feel like for me personally that I should get involved in what other people should do for their bodies and their livelihoods. It would be like talking about somebody if they should, you know, take this job or not. Listen, you have to do what is best for you and your family.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: So Nischelle, what is your reaction? What do you hear him saying there?

TURNER: This is a tough one. I think that we have heard a lot of professional athletes going this route. Saying, you know, I'm taking my hands off of this. And a lot of them not even wanting to say whether or not they have gotten the vaccine.

It's interesting because you did hear LeBron saying this isn't a race issue or this isn't this. This is a public health issue though. And we have heard these athletes take stances on things like race and inequality. And so, it is interesting to me that they want to be hands off here. And he says it is not political but we have seen this get very political at times.

You know, we are going to see this come to a crossroads in the NBA because there are certain cities who say you have to be vaccinated or you can't be in this type of arena with this many people and some of those cities are where, you know, these athletes play. So, some of them may not be able to play.

I think it is going to come to a head. I think the NBA has a bit of a problem on its hand, one they maybe didn't see coming. Like there's a PR problem. Because 90 percent of the league is vaccinated. So, they do have a PR on their hands when they have a couple of the holdouts and a couple of those holdouts are big stars.

I thought LeBron was trying to be thoughtful but sometimes it does feel like that these players miss the mark or miss the point that, no, this isn't a race issue but it is a public health issue and what choices you make do affect other people at the end of the day.

So, you know, it's interesting. I see this playing out in about a month or so. I think we'll really see serious conversations happening over in the NBA.

CAMEROTA: Nischelle Turner, always great to see you. Thank you.

TURNER: Same.

CAMEROTA: OK, we have some breaking news. The House has passed the bill that averts a government shutdown. This now extends government staying open and being funded through December 3rd.

Of course, this is not the last key vote of the day. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi still says the House will vote on that bipartisan infrastructure bill despite threats to vote no from progressives. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:55:00]

CAMEROTA: An ominous warning from Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen while lawmakers battle over raising the debt ceiling, today, Yellen told the House Financial Services Committee that if Congress does not act soon defaulting on the national debt would wreak havoc on everyday Americans.

CNN's Matt Egan has more from today's hearing. So, what exactly did Secretary Yellen say would happen?

MATT EGAN, CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: Well, Janet Yellen did not mince words here. She said that if Congress doesn't raise the debt ceiling in time it would spark a financial crisis and a recession. And what's really important is that this wouldn't just cause chaos on Wall Street, this would be really, really bad for main street, too. Listen to what she said about how all Americans would be hurt here.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANET YELLEN, TREASURY SECRETARY: Well, I think it would be catastrophic. Nearly 50 million seniors could stop receiving Social Security payments or see them delayed. Our troops would not know when they would get their next paycheck. We have 30 million families who rely on the monthly child tax credit and they would not receive that relief.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

EGAN: And this is not just the view of Yellen. We've heard similar warnings from business leaders including JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon and Fed Chair Jerome Powell, a Republican appointed by former President Donald Trump. And you know, we have to remember the clock is ticking here. Yellen reiterated today that the federal government is going to run out of cash and these emergency accounting moves by October 18th.

CAMEROTA: But it is not like lawmakers don't know this. They know that it would be catastrophic. And it is so interesting. I understand that Senator Mitch McConnell says he doesn't want to help the Democrats. I get it, they are in mortal combat. But there's one thing about not helping them, there's another being obstructionist. Are they really playing chicken with this?

EGAN: So far, they are and, you know, and that really runs contrary to what Janet Yellen said. She said that she thinks that raising the debt ceiling should be a shared responsibility because both parties have racked up the national debt. They both have a role here to play. And what is so important, remember, is the debt ceiling -- if you raise the debt ceiling it is not like you're authorizing new spending. This is just authorizing the government to pay the bills.

CAMEROTA: This is paying your credit card bill.

EGAN: Exactly. And not raising the debt ceiling would be like stiffing the credit card company. It's not going to end well.

CAMEROTA: OK. Matt Egan, thank you on that note.

EGAN: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Thanks so much for being here. Thanks for joining me. And "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.