Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

New Pill Cuts COVID Hospitalization; Michael Mulgrew is Interviewed about the NYC Teacher Vaccine Mandate; Manchin Sets Price Tag; Killings by Police Severely Undercounted. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired October 01, 2021 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:31:11]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, more good news on the COVID-19 front. Vaccination rates appear to be increasing and this is across the country. This as the pharmaceutical giant Merck says it has developed a pill that could cut the risk of COVID hospitalizations and deaths in half. The company is now planning to apply for Emergency Use Authorization for this treatment.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: CNN senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joining us now with more.

So, sounds good. Realistically, how promising is this new drug, Elizabeth?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Erica, it's so promising that an external board of experts who were monitoring this clinical trial stopped it early. They said these results look so promising that we want to give Merck a chance to let them start now to apply to the FDA for Emergency Use Authorization.

So let's take a look at this -- at the results for this drug. This is a drug that is for people in the very early stages of COVID. All of the participants, more than 700 of them, they were no more than five days out from a positive COVID test. So about half were given the drug, half were given placebo. The drug's called Molnupiravir. And among those who got the placebo, 45 were hospitalized and eight died. Among those who got Molnupiravir, 28 were hospitals and none died. That is really quite dramatic.

So another advantage of that -- of this drug is that it's a pill. So there are monoclonal antibodies out there for people in the early stages of COVID, infection drugs like the drug made by Regeneron. However, they're much more expensive and they have to be delivered intravenously or by shot. So that's much more difficult to deliver. It's much easier if your doctor can just call in a prescription.

HILL: That would make it a lot easier.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HILL: All right, we'll keep watching that. Elizabeth Cohen, thank you.

Well, right now, there's a group of teachers in New York asking the Supreme Court to block a vaccine mandate, stating a, quote, unconstitutional burden on public school teachers. This as teachers in the state have until -- in New York City have until 5:00 today to get at least their first dose of the COVID-19 vaccine, or, starting Monday, they won't be paid.

SCIUTTO: Joining us now to discuss, Michael Mulgrew, he's president of the United Federation of Teachers, also vice president of the American Federation of Teachers.

Good morning, Michael. Thanks so much for taking the time this morning.

MICHAEL MULGREW, PRESIDENT, UNITED FEDERATION OF TEACHERS: Good morning. I hope you're having a good day.

SCIUTTO: So, a group of teachers, and to be clear, this is a -- this is an infinitesimal percent of total number of teachers in New York City, but they are asking the Supreme Court to block this New York City vaccine mandate.

What's your view on that challenge?

MULGREW: Look, this is America. Everyone can use the court system. We have been major supporters of the -- of vaccine -- of this vaccine. Last (INAUDIBLE) when COVID first hit, it was the teachers who fought to close our school system because the city did not do it. We closed a week later than everyone else and we had almost 100 members pass away from COVID. So, for us, it's always been about, how do we get to the end of this pandemic?

Now, when the city issued its vaccine mandate, they didn't do it correctly. So we had to challenge it so that it -- we knew -- the city knew it had to recognize medical and religious exemption and accommodations. But now our focus is on what we have to do to make sure that those that are vaccinated are safe as we return -- as we go to school on Monday.

HILL: So the numbers are pretty good, I have to say, for the district here. Ninety percent according to the mayor of Department of Education employees have had at least one shot because there was often discussion about staff in schools, 97 percent of teachers. I know your polling shows that among your union members, nearly -- I mean well over 90 percent, some 97 percent, I believe, are vaccinated.

[09:35:00]

For those that are holdouts at this point, is it your understanding that that is maybe people who fall into those categories where there is an exemption or do you think there is a small number of people who are simply refusing the vaccine and may ultimately not be at work on Monday? MULGREW: I think -- I think it's a combination of both. That's what

we've seen across the country. But from -- but, for us, it was, when we were into the summertime this year, we saw the delta variant starting to -- you know, all of a sudden the delta variant raised its head. That's a game changer for us because the -- now, unlike last year when we had to fight to get the right system in place to keep our school safe, and we are the safest building in every community, we're the only large school system to open last September. The delta variant actually now can really cause major harm for our students. And that's a big change. And that's something where we have to be very, very careful and make sure we're doing everything in our power to keep our school community safe and the children that we care for.

So the whole issue of the vaccine mandates, I didn't want to become, you know, very knowledgeable, but we have over 100 years of lawsuits and court cases on vaccine mandates and it's pretty -- if a school -- if a local department of health does it properly, then they're allowed to do it. And it's been upheld at the local level, the state level and the federal level for over 100 years.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Yes.

MULGREW: So our job is to prepare for keeping people safe when the vaccine mandate goes into effect and we have staffing issues.

SCIUTTO: Just before you go, big picture in your experience is one of the lessons so far of the school year is that things have been going pretty well, right? That mitigation efforts, vaccines, et cetera, have kept, even in the midst of the delta surge, has kept -- have kept outbreaks under control and kept the schools open?

MULGREW: Well, it depends what area of the country you're speaking about. I was down in the southern parts of the country as an AMT (ph) vice president and that was not the case. You know, that was not the case. And that's why we're doing everything in our power. We're fighting right now with the city over policies, over quarantine, and test and trace. But, as a teacher, that's our biggest concern is safety. And safety for the community and safety for our students.

I, unfortunately, am part of a club who had a student pass away during my career and it is too many who have -- have had that. And that's the last thing that we want to do. So we're going to continue, wherever we have to push against, that's our job and that's what we're going to do.

SCIUTTO: Exactly. And, by the way, the kids, the ones under 12 who aren't eligible yet for it.

MULGREW: Correct.

SCIUTTO: So prioritizing them makes sense.

Michael Mulgrew, thanks so much for joining us this morning.

MULGREW: Thanks. Have a good day. SCIUTTO: No vote, no deal, nothing yet. Could, however, the deep

division within the Democratic Party up end President Biden's economic agenda or will they find a way? We're going to discuss, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:42:32]

HILL: Right now President Biden's economic agenda really hanging in the balance. Lawmakers, of course, in his own party struggling this morning still to get on the same page. Democratic leaders now floating a $2.1 trillion compromise and a spending bill, packed with progressive priorities as they work to get House progressive on board with that $1.2 trillion bipartisan infrastructure bill that could be brought to a vote today, which apparently is also still known as Thursday, not Friday, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes, that figure almost but not quite halfway between the two competing numbers. Senator Joe Manchin has made it clear his top line number to this point for reconciliation is $1.5 trillion. No progressive has signed off on anything as low as $2 trillion at this point but, heck, it's a negotiation.

Joining us now to discuss, David Gergen, CNN's senior political analyst who has served as adviser to just four U.S. presidents.

David, you've seen your share of difficult negotiations through the years. As you look at the two sides here, and a very public bout of infighting and bomb throwing, do you see a way out? Do you see them making a deal?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I -- you can't count out Nancy Pelosi ever. As you will know, Jim, she's a -- she's a master in such situations. She always seems to bring it home at the last minute.

But I must say, this is the steepest mountain I've ever seen her try to climb. It's going to -- I think it's going to be very tough. If you think that -- mentioned it was 1.5, the Democrats were at 3.5 and they're going to scale it -- they want -- the Democrats want to -- some Democrats want to scale it back to 2.1. That is a huge, huge problem for the progressive side. You -- taking all of that money out.

The way out of this may be, Jim and Erica, to shorten the time length of the applications, instead of a ten-year plan, if you have a five- year plan.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GERGEN: You would automatically cut a lot from it and you may be -- it may be easier to cut the time than to cut the programs.

HILL: It would be interesting to see if maybe that ends up being perhaps an option here. You describe it as one of the steepest hills you've seen, David. You know, I'm curious, let's say you added a fifth president there to the list of those you had advised, what is your advice for President Biden this morning? Does he need to do more or perhaps engage with different people?

GERGEN: Oh, I think he needs to engage full time. I have no doubt, Erica, he has been engaged a lot behind the scenes. But, yes, he does need to step it up.

I think the larger suggestion I would make to the president is, you know, you -- in the White House, you can -- you can handle one crisis and maybe two crises at a time.

[09:45:07]

But when you get to four, five, or six crisis simultaneously, you tend to drop a couple of balls. It's just too hard. Your staff is so small that to do something as professional as that with so many details, you know, I -- there -- there are accounts about this -- the $3.5 trillion plan, for example, which says the legislation -- the accompanying material will run somewhere in the neighborhood of 2,500 pages -- 2,500 pages of analysis and print. You can't -- you know, it's just -- it's just impossible in the White House to deal with that.

So I think if he slowed it down altogether and not tried to do quite so much, he'd get farther, you know, because he's -- he's clearly got a good staff. They got off to a great start. Somehow since Afghanistan, especially with the turn that came in Afghanistan, they've just been -- they haven't been themselves.

SCIUTTO: David, of course, President Biden campaigned on his experience, 36 years in the Senate, as a master dealmaker.

GERGEN: Yes, he did.

SCIUTTO: But also on general competence, right, to contrast with the previous administration.

GERGEN: Right.

SCIUTTO: You mentioned Afghanistan. These quite difficult negotiations within their own party.

I wonder, is that image of Biden as perhaps not that dealmaker, perhaps not as competent as advertised baked in?

GERGEN: You raised a really good point, Jim. You know, before Afghanistan, the president was thought to be very, very confident -- competent in international relations and suddenly he got hit with all these claims that he was incompetent -- his team was incompetent, he was incompetent. I think this -- this fight over the infrastructure and over the reconciliation bill is very similar in that sense and that you look at the coverage this morning in the press. Very harsh coverage. You know, call it humiliating for the president, severe setback, that, you know, he can't -- he can't govern his own party, much less, you know, come to bipartisan agreement.

So, you know, I think his -- his presidency is very much on the line right now. If he can come out of this, if he and Nancy can pull it out, they will go on from strength to strength. But if they -- if they fail to pull it off, he's going to -- he's going to pay a huge price politically.

But let me just say one other thing, there is some good news around the corner, and your reporting earlier today suggesting that. That is that the COVID rates do seem to be coming down. You know, for -- over the last three weeks that's good. And prospects for the economy are going up. And that is -- that's good news. That will help the Biden White House if he comes through this debacle. But, nonetheless, what happens in the next 24 to 72 hours is critical for the overall Biden presidency.

SCIUTTO: Wow.

HILL: David Gergen, always good to have you. Thank you.

GERGEN: Thank you and thank you for inviting me.

HILL: Just ahead, disturbing new details about police killings in America, as we learn they're being underreported by more than half. We are live with that alarming new study, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:52:28]

SCIUTTO: A new study offers a disturbing look at the lack of quality data regarding police use of deadly force in this country. Researchers say the number of deaths attributable to police violence have actually been undercounted and by more than 50 percent over the last four years.

HILL: Now, we should note, this data does not address how many of those deaths were deemed to be justified.

CNN's Brynn Gingras joining us now with more.

So what does this data tell us? What does it show, Brynn.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Erica and Jim.

Overall, what this study is really highlighting is the need for a more comprehensive and public data system on police violence because, of course, you can't make change without all the facts, right? And in particularly because this data shows again, as you guys mentioned, how much people of certain races and ethnicities are impacted disproportionately by that violence.

So, my colleague, Peter Makias (ph), he broke down this study and he found researchers looked at a 40-year period in the U.S. and they determined more than half of all deaths found to be due to police violence are underreported or misclassified in a government database where they can be accessed publicly. And a closer look at those numbers showed the mortality rate over the four decades was three and a half times higher among the black population and 1.8 percent more for Hispanics.

Now, a spokesperson for the National Center for Health Statistics pushed back a little bit saying, it's commonly understood that this particular database compared in this study undercounts deaths caused by police because for one reason, death certificates don't allow or always note police involvement in that particular death.

But, again, bottom line, there really isn't a single comprehensive source of national data for uses of force by police or a standard against which any use of force is judged. And this suggests why, again, one is needed so that the scope of this problem can really be fully understand.

So this study, of course, punctuating, guys, the national discussion that we've all had in the aftermath of high-profile cases like George Floyd and Breonna Taylor. We saw so many states taking action in the immediate wake of their tragic deaths and others, of course.

But we also know, guys, that Congress so far has failed to pass some major federal reforms.

So, again, this putting this to the forefront of that discussion.

Jim.

SCIUTTO: Fascinating study. Brynn Gingras, thanks so much for breaking it down.

Still ahead, a new proposal to get President Biden's economic agenda over the finish line and over Democratic infighting. Will there be a compromise on reconciliation? Could it come as soon as today? We're going to be live in Washington, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:59:28]

HILL: Good Friday morning. Oh, it's good to say that. I'm Erica Hill.

SCIUTTO: And we're nearly to the weekend, but a lot of news between now and then and maybe through the weekend. I'm Jim Sciutto.

So will a $2.1 trillion reconciliation proposal work? That's what the White House and lawmakers are trying to figure out now as the two sides push to find some agreement to advance the Biden agenda. But, today, House Speaker Pelosi faces a big lift to keep that agenda on track despite the 11th hour failed deal last night. No vote on the infrastructure bill.

[10:00:00]

The White House, Democratic leadership, certainly isn't giving up. Moderate House Democrats are, though, we're told, growing increasingly frustrated with the administration. Sources telling