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CNN Reports, Democrats Circulate $2.1 Trillion Compromise for Reconciliation Bill; Supreme Court Justice Kavanaugh Tests Positive for COVID; More COVID Vaccine Mandates Take Effect as Data Show They Work. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired October 01, 2021 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: The White House.

[10:00:00]

Democratic leadership certainly isn't giving up. Moderate House Democrats are though, we're told, growing increasingly frustrated with the administration. Sources telling CNN they feel like the president has not been forceful enough in demanding exactly what he wants.

ERICA HILL, CNN NEWSROOM: Now, that comes as progressive Democrats continue, of course, to resist fierce pressure from within the caucus, the party's far-left wing refusing to pass that bipartisan infrastructure bill after hearing that White House couldn't reach a deal with Senate moderates on reconciliation.

And possibly adding insult to injury here, Senator Manchin publicly reiterating he's not willing to go above $1.5 trillion for the spending package, a number, of course, that is far below the figure Democrats have been talking about putting out there for months.

Our team is following all the latest developments out of Washington. Let's start with CNN Congressional Correspondent Lauren Fox who's on Capitol Hill.

Look, I definitely am hearing the positive spin the Democrats are trying to put on this, that we were hearing here on CNN this morning from Debbie Dingell, from Scott Peters, those people are talking, they're negotiating, they're listening, things are happening. How much are things really happening this morning?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the problem here, Erica, is that all of this negotiating is happening a little bit too late, right? It's happening in the 11th hour. The vote was supposed to be Monday, then it was going to be Thursday. Obviously, now, we are talking about Friday morning and a question of will or won't she put that bill on the floor in the House of Representatives.

All eyes are on Speaker Pelosi right now and what she's going to do next. But there is a sense for moderate members that the White House and Biden specifically should have been pushing harder publicly exactly what he wanted moderates and progressives to do. Because their argument is, look, this is the bipartisan infrastructure bill that you supported, that you celebrated, that your team helped negotiate, why didn't you go to progressives more forcefully, more publicly to get them on board?

Now, would that have changed anything if the president snapped his fingers and said, this is what I want? I think that is very unclear at this point. And that's something that obviously that the White House would push back against it. The president can't just change the minds of everyone so quickly, especially when everyone is so dug in. But I will tell you that that frustration is palpable. And a lot of moderates that we're talking this morning are saying, look, Pelosi just needs to put this bill on the floor.

Now, people who are close to the speaker are arguing she is doing everything that she can. She needs to have the time and the allowance to work this behind the scenes, that no one is better at this. Here is what Debbie Dingell, a Democrat from Michigan, had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): I think a lot of people wish that they had known what's being dealt with, but I think the speaker is really -- there's no better legislator.

She thought he was working with an agreement that was $3.5 trillion. So -- but this is a woman who takes the -- what's been handed to her, the lemons, and ensures that it gets made into the lemonade that we've got to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOX: And, obviously, the big question mark is surrounding John Manchin, the moderate from West Virginia, who said yesterday $1.5 trillion was his number and after hours of negotiations with fellow Democrats, with leadership, as well as White House officials last night in his hideaway, he came out around 10:00 P.M. and told reporters, $1.5 trillion is my number. The fact that they are discussing potentially $2.1 million, if they can't get Manchin, that framework just isn't going to work.

That is a number being floated, of course, by leadership and the White House but the problem all along has been you have to get the moderates on board. And right now, Joe Manchin is a holdout on that $2.1 trillion top-line number. And I just don't see necessarily that breaking loose in the next couple of hours.

SCIUTTO: CNN White House Correspondent John Harwood joins us now.

John, I wonder, who's driving the negotiations on this right now? Is it Nancy Pelosi? Is it the president? Is it Ron Klain? Who is leading the charge?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's all of them. It's President Biden, it's the Democratic leadership, it's the House leadership, the progressive caucus, it's Manchin and Sinema. When you've got bare majorities of this kind, everybody has got a veto. And as a result of that, when you have a jam-up like this on the infrastructure bill, as well as on the reconciliation bill, everyone is frustrated. Moderates are frustrated, as Lauren was just indicating. Progressives are frustrated because they want a larger reconciliation package.

But I do think the underlying feeling at the White House this morning is that they got closer to the goal line last night. The gears engaged. They started getting a more significant amount of negotiation. I don't think they expect Joe Manchin to end up at $1.5 trillion, don't know if they can get to $2 trillion or over $2 trillion.

And they'll have some hard decisions to make about what programs get trimmed and how they get trimmed. Some will get discarded. Some will have timelines narrowed, phase in earlier, phase out later, a lot of challenges remaining for this.

[10:05:03]

But they do think they're getting closer to a point where they can get an agreement on the reconciliation package, if not today, within a matter of days, maybe a couple week. And that would free up both the infrastructure bill and the reconciliation bill.

One possibility today in terms of a vote would be a temporary extension of the federal highway program, which, of course, lapsed at the end of the fiscal year, September 30th. I recognize we're still legislatively on September 30th, but that's something that would be a fallback if they can't put the bipartisan bill on the floor today.

HILL: We will be watching. John Harwood, Lauren Fox, I appreciate the reporting. Thank you both.

SCIUTTO: All right. So, I'm joined now by Congresswoman -- Pennsylvania Congresswoman Madeleine Dean. She's a member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, also serves on the House Financial Services and Judiciary Committees. Congresswoman, thanks so much for taking the time this morning.

REP. MADELEINE DEAN (D-PA): Good morning. It's good to be with you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: So, Nancy Pelosi floating a $2.1 trillion top-line compromise. Is that top-line figure high enough for you and other progressives?

DEAN: I won't speak for other progressives and I won't pick or put a nail in the top-line number. But certainly what we see with Nancy Pelosi is somebody who is just very good at her art, her craft. She's a superior negotiator. But most importantly, more than process and negotiation, she cares about the policy. She cares for the children. The difference that these important pieces of legislation will make, lifting children out of poverty, the child tax credit, lifting families out of poverty, child care, universal pre-K. These are the things, the possibilities of this bill, and so I won't put a pin in the number because that number is moving. SCIUTTO: So, what I'm hearing, if I'm reading you correctly, is that you would be willing to move below $3.5 trillion, that you're willing to move that pin.

DEAN: The number has never been fixed in stone. And what can be done, and I think one of your reporters just discussed it, was the possibility of, you know, we're talking about spending over ten years when we talk $3.5 trillion. That's something that seems to be very lost in the messaging. That's $350 billion a year. Take a look at defense spending. That's $750 billion a year. We don't talk about that as $7.5 trillion.

So what you can do is, for example, I'm a champion of both the pre-K piece and the free community college and HBCU tuition. You can trim that to a program that would be five or six years, thus reducing the number. Let's see if it works. And then I have a feeling, when people see the engine that is pre-K and education for young people, free of tuition burdens, I have a feeling five or six years from now we might say this is a program that works and is worth investing in.

SCIUTTO: Okay. So, what you've just mapped out there could potentially solve the problem because it would bring down the top-line figure. Based on that, do you see a vote today on this?

DEAN: I'm an optimist. I don't know. And I'm not in the negotiating room. I'm really here to talk about the policies. But I'm an optimist. I believe that our entire caucus wants to make sure we get both of these packages across the bipartisan infrastructure as well as the build back better. This is the president's vision. This is the president's agenda. So I'm an optimist. We will move forward today.

SCIUTTO: Okay. The sad fact is, though, that some of the continuing disagreements have bubbled out in public in not the warmest and fuzziest ways. Your fellow progressive, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, she described moderate Democrats' position as fundamentally unserious, fundamentally unserious pattern of negotiation. Do you agree? Do you believe your moderate colleagues are not negotiating in good faith?

DEAN: Well, the last thing I'm going to do is comment on a comment of a colleague. But I will tell you is I'm the youngest of seven children. I am used to squabbles and debates. And what I have seen in our caucus, I have to tell you, Jim, although I won't tell you the content of the caucus, what I have seen is some of the most thoughtful remarks from all sides of our caucus, the far-right, the-far left, if there is such a thing as far-right in the Democratic caucus. I've heard from newer members and the most senior of members that we are focused on building back better. I am not focused on characterizing anybody else's position in this. I'm focused on the policies.

Think about what this will do for seniors, expanding Medicare for vision, dental and hearing. It makes perfect sense. It's the kind of things that we Democrats know we should be involved in. We know what the possibilities and the responsibility of government is but we also know where government should stand back and stand aside. So, I won't comment on comments.

SCIUTTO: Okay. So, I'm the youngest of four, so we could commiserate on interfamily -- intrafamily squabbles there.

[10:10:00]

You have heard the descriptions of the current debate as basically being a make-or-break moment, not just for Congress, frankly, as the midterms approach, but for President Biden's agenda. We know how this works, right? Presidents have after their election about a year to get their most ambitious legislative priorities done. And, by the way, it's not certain that Democrats will hold the House or the Senate following 2022, further limiting the president's power.

Do you agree that these negotiations, what comes out of it, will define, in effect, the Biden presidency?

DEAN: I love your question and the framing of it, but let me tell you how I look at it. I look at it as a make-or-break moment for the American people. Political scientists will tell us what this will mean for the midterms. But what I see is the American people see in this moment, an opportunity in a very challenging time in our country, an opportunity to do better, to build back better for the many.

So we'll see where we go in the midterms. I really believe, we, the Democrats, will deliver, and the American people are on the side of both of these packages, these investments, transformational investments. And so the political fallout may be very positive for Democrats and for the president and certainly we pray for that, but much more importantly for the American people.

SCIUTTO: Very quickly before we go, officially it's still Thursday on the congressional calendar, since you didn't adjourn last night. Let me just ask you, how long does Thursday last? Does it last through Friday, does it go into Saturday?

DEAN: We will have to ask the parliamentarian that. The calendar is a little confusing and dizzying, but I'm glad it's still Thursday.

SCIUTTO: All right. Well, eventually, it will be the weekend. Congresswoman Madeleine Dean, we Wish you the best of luck in these next few hours.

DEAN: Thank you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Coming up next, news from the Supreme Court this morning that Justice Brett Kavanaugh has tested positive for coronavirus. What that means for the start of the new term on Monday.

HILL: Plus, doctors may soon have the first pill to target COVID-19. A new study showing it could cut the risk of hospitalization or death in half.

And later, one Democrat who wants infrastructure to pass quickly, Terry McAuliffe, who is in a competitive race for Virginia governor next month. We'll take a closer look at his Republican opponent.

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[10:15:00]

HILL: Justice Brett Kavanaugh, the first known member of the Supreme Court to test positive for coronavirus.

SCIUTTO: CNN's Ariane de Vogue joins us now from the Supreme Court. He is vaccinated. These breakthrough cases, extremely rare for someone to be hospitalized with a serious illness, but what more do we know about his case and what it needs for court term?

ARIANE DE VOGUE, CNN SUPREME COURT REPORTER: Right. Like you said, he did test positive. He was fully vaccinated, so this probably is a breakthrough case. We believe he's the first sitting justice to test positive.

A court released a brief statement. Let me read you part of it. It said on Thursday for the court ice regular testing protocol, Justice Kavanaugh had a routine COVID test ahead of Justice Barrett's investiture on Friday. On Thursday evening, Justice Kavanaugh was informed that he had tested positive for COVID. He has no symptoms and has been fully vaccinated since January.

And, of course, the justices were all here today this morning for the ceremonial swearing-in of Justice Amy Coney Barrett. Chief Justice John Roberts and Barrett appeared outside on the plaza. Of course, she's been hearing arguments for over a year but because of COVID, that was all delayed. And today, for the first time, the justices went back into that courtroom.

Keep in mind, the new term begins on Monday with a lot of blockbuster cases. But I have to say, the court had taken a lot of precautions about COVID. For instance, there's going to be reduced audience and then the lawyers are all required to test. And if any one of the lawyers tested positive, they were supposed to participate by phone. So, the term obviously is going to go on. Kavanaugh does not have to be in the courtroom and he could even maybe participate telephonically.

It's worth noting last Monday the justices were all together for their private conference. Back then, Kavanaugh tested negative and his family has all tested negative. But the court, of course, is being really careful here, because you have got Justice Stephen Breyer, he is 83 years old, Justice Thomas is 73. But they have been traveling. Justice Alito, for instance, who's 71, he was in Indiana yesterday giving a speech. But the court has been very careful here, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes, giving quite a fiery speech, in fact. Ariane de Vogue at the court. Thanks so much.

Well, today, more vaccine mandates are going into effect around the country. This is some very encouraging data show that these mandates were actually working. One of the largest hospitals in Rhode Island says it vaccinated more than 95 percent of its workforce in New York, 92 percent of nursing home and hospital staff have received at least one dose so far.

HILL: Across the country, vaccination rates do appear to be on the rise. More than 77 percent of adults have had at least one dose, nearly 67 percent now fully vaccinated.

Joining us to talk through more of this, Dr. Paul Offit, Director of the Vaccination Education Center at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia and, of course, a member of the FDAS Vaccine Advisory Committee. Dr. Offit, always good to have you with us. Good morning.

As we look at that number of adults who have had at least one shot, I think it's interesting, too, of eligible Americans, those 12 and up.

[10:20:02]

75 percent have had at least one shot. That's incredibly encouraging, especially as we see these rates rise in areas with a vaccine mandate. Do you think there will be more mandates to come?

DR. PAUL OFFIT, DIRECTOR, VACCINE EDUCATION CENTER, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: Well, on a better road, we wouldn't need them. Anybody who looks at the data here knows that the vaccine is safe, knows that it's effective, so we should need them. But you're right. I mean, there's probably about 65 million people in this country who've simply said they don't want to get the vaccine. They're going to continue to allow for the virus to spread and mutate and perhaps create variants that are perhaps more and more resistant to vaccine-induced immunity and allow the virus to cause harm. So I think you have no choice but to mandate.

I'm glad to see that they're working. I think in some settings, they probably work better than others, but sometimes we just have to be compelled to do the right thing.

SCIUTTO: Okay. Big picture, looking at the trend line, so you've got above 70 percent of adults or those eligible with at least one shot. You also have, we see, a tailing-off of new infections and new hospitalizations. Do you see the delta surge burning out?

OFFIT: I think there's every reason to be optimistic that it will lessen. You have, you know, more than about 55 percent of the country that's fully vaccinated. As you said, you have a large number of people who have already received one dose. I think those people will likely receive their second dose. Plus, you have at least 100 million people who have been naturally infected and those aren't two separate groups. Obviously, there's overlap. But I think if you add up those who were infected, those who were vaccinated and those who were infected and vaccinated, you're probably at about 75 percent population immunity right now.

I think you probably need to get to about 90 percent population immunity. I think if we can vaccinate probably another 30 million people you will see a clear decline in the instance of this infection.

SCIUTTO: Wow.

HILL: A lot of parents feel it would be great to add their kids to that number of vaccinated in this country. Obviously, both Jim and I are in that group. I think we all know that. I heard you say earlier this week that the advisory panel is essentially ready to go as soon as Pfizer officially submits its request for emergency use authorization. Just remind people what that timeline could be once that request is formally submitted.

OFFIT: Right. So, what happens is I think when Pfizer and Moderna submits their data or Johnson & Johnson, what happens is the FDA looks through it and then comes up with their own document. And then what will happen is that we, the FDA Vaccine Advisory Committee, will receive the document from the company, receive the document from the FDA, usually have a few days to review those documents.

Once we then meet and, let's say, hypothetically that we approve it, then it goes to the FDA, which just takes a couple days to accept our recommendation or not. Then it goes to the CDC a few days later. So, once it's submitted, I think, and once we're asked to review it, usually everything happens within about a week.

SCIUTTO: Okay. Before do you think -- and I'm asking your best guess -- before Halloween or after Halloween? And does it matter in terms of preparing the population, young people in particular, before the winter season?

OFFIT: Well, sure. You'd like to have a vaccine as soon as possible. It is a little disappointing that only about 40, 43 percent of 12 to 15-year-olds are vaccinated. The vaccine has been available for a few months. So, I think my fear is it would be a lesser percentage in people 5 to 11 years of age. We see our children as vulnerable. We're always hesitant to inject them with a biological agent. But the fact of the matter is that the choice not to get a vaccine is not a risk- free. It's a choice to take it different and I think I would argue more serious risk.

HILL: To that point, the most recent polling we have, 44 percent of parents say they're planning to get their kids a shot. Now, that came after, right, Pfizer had announced some of its preliminary data. We do typically see that once things are authorized, the numbers change, certainly among adults, do you expect the same for parents when it comes to vaccinating their children?

OFFIT: That's a really good point, and I hope you're right. I mean, certainly, if you look like last September, October, when people were asked the question, would you get a COVID-19 vaccine, only about 30 or 35 percent said yes. But when then the vaccine was released, there were data out there, people were comfortable with the data, that 30, 35 percent number went up to 65, 70 percent.

So I do think that -- to me, that's the skeptic. The skeptic is someone who says, show me the data. I would argue, everybody that sits around the FDA Vaccine Advisory Committee table is a skeptic. It's the cynic that's the problem, the person who just simply doesn't believe the data, they think it's a big conspiracy. That's the hard part.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And there is still so much disinformation out there, it's remarkable.

HILL: Dr. Paul Offit, always great to have you with us. Thank you.

OFFIT: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Still ahead this hour, Corey Lewandowski has been ousted now from Trump world, groups and former allies now cutting ties after allegations of sexual harassment. That's next.

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[10:25:00]

HILL: Corey Lewandowski, once considered an elite in Trump's circle, now on the outside following allegations of sexual harassment involving a donor. Trump's super PAC severing ties with him in a tweet, a Trump spokesperson writing, Corey Lewandowski will be going on to other endeavors. We very much want to thank him for his service. He'll no longer be associated with Trump world.

[10:30:00]

SCIUTTO: It all comes after Trump donor Trashelle Odom alleged that Lewandowski touched her inappropriately at a fundraising event in Las Vegas last weekend.