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Interview With Former Acting CDC Director Dr. Richard Besser; New COVID Treatment?; Interview With Rep. Adriano Espaillat (D-NY); Infrastructure Negotiations Continue. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired October 01, 2021 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:02]

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: The president wished his predecessor happy birthday on Twitter this morning, sharing a vintage photo of the pair.

Thank you so much for joining "INSIDE POLITICS."

Ana Cabrera picks up our coverage right now.

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello on this Friday. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York. Thank you so much for being here.

We began on Capitol Hill this hour. Democrats are struggling mightily to find middle ground, as warring factions of the party threatened to tear apart President Biden's agenda. This hour, House Democrats are back at work after late-night negotiations bogged down on that partisan infrastructure bill, the bipartisan infrastructure bill.

Now, progressives are holding out on that as moderates hold out on the larger $3.5 trillion social safety net package, the reconciliation bill. And the White House and Democratic leaders are now floating a compromise framework of $2.1 trillion.

Does that get the job done? Will that number win enough support or further alienate both wings of the party?

Let's go to Washington for some answers here.

CNN congressional correspondent Lauren Fox is with us, along with Phil Mattingly at the White House.

Lauren, you have reporting that optimism is growing after a closed- door briefing today. What have you learned?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, I think that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is trying to make it clear to her caucus that they all do stand for getting something. They all want an infrastructure bill. They all want to reimagine the social safety net.

But some of the specifics are still missing. And I think that is the concern that is really coming from Democrats this afternoon. They held about a two-hour caucus meeting. They are expected to hold another caucus meeting later today to try to all get on the same page about what the next steps should look like, Ana.

But this is all coming as we have just learned that a key moderate senator, Kyrsten Sinema, from Arizona is back in Arizona. She has a doctor's appointment, her office says. And so she is now negotiating remotely with the White House.

Of course, that could be potentially problematic, because she is seen as somebody that has to get on the same page with some of these progressives, who want to make sure that Manchin and Sinema actually agree to some kind of framework on this bigger social safety net package before they move ahead with a bipartisan infrastructure bill.

There are a ton of moving parts here. And I think the question is, will something come to the floor today? Right now, it doesn't look like that would be possible. Or if it did come to the floor, it would likely fail.

But I think that we are still trying to get consensus within the Democratic Caucus of what their next steps are going to be. And, of course, we expect another meeting later this afternoon, perhaps giving more clarity, perhaps just giving members another opportunity to discuss how they're feeling about these two bills.

CABRERA: OK, Lauren, stand by.

Phil, much of the focus right now is on the chasm dividing Senator Manchin and the White House and trying to get Manchin on board. But does President Biden have reason to believe progressives will support such tremendous cuts on that social spending plan?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think White House officials understand and view it as a process. It's a painstaking process, one that didn't have a lot of clarity or really any path forward until over the course of the last 24 hours.

And this has always been the needle that they needed to thread. How do you hit a moderate senator that's top line is $1.5 trillion vs. progressives who make very clear they think $3.5 trillion was a compromise?

And I think that's what you saw White House officials working very closely with Speaker Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer's policy staff on last night. Could you find a top line that perhaps could bring Senator Manchin up, that perhaps progressives would say would be enough, given the dynamics and where the vote tally stood, that also incorporated a significant number of the planks of President Biden's overall economic and climate proposal, kind of the backbone of his domestic policy agenda?

Again, this isn't fully fleshed out yet. The full framework that they're working on hasn't even been socialized with rank-and-file members yet, but they feel like they have started to at least head in that direction.

I think, to Lauren's point, there is a significant amount of work to go just to get a framework together, let alone write legislative text. And whether or not progressives are willing to accept just a framework, whether or not Senator Manchin is willing to move up from 1.5 to 2.1, these are still very open questions and very much the subject of behind-the-scenes conversations going on between some of the president's top advisers, and a lot of these members right now.

I think one thing to keep an eye on over the course of the day as things progress forward, the president was available throughout the day yesterday and he is still available today to make a trip to Capitol Hill. White House officials have said, if they feel like they need to bring members down to the White House for conversations, that might occur, transpire as well.

So there are a lot of moving parts right now. Everything is very fluid. To Lauren's point, over here at the White House, they also feel like things are in a much better place than they were yesterday, but they are keenly aware that the dynamics are still somewhat shifting, they are still very complicated.

And the ability to thread that needle they have been trying to for the better part of the last several weeks, if not longer, is still not quite there yet. There's still a lot of work to do, Ana.

CABRERA: Yes. Yes, Democratic leaders saying all the drama that we have seen in the last 48 hours or so, or really all week long, has led to some serious momentum, brought them closer together, but so many details left to be worked out, as you both point.

[13:05:08]

Thank you for your excellent reporting, Phil Mattingly, Lauren Fox.

Let's continue this conversation.

I want to bring in New York Congressman Adriano Espaillat. He's a member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus and serves as deputy whip.

Congressman, good to have you with us.

REP. ADRIANO ESPAILLAT (D-NY): Thank you, Ana.

CABRERA: So, the counteroffer, as we understand it here, in terms of a compromise, potentially, that's on the table is $2.1 trillion. We don't know if moderate Senators Manchin and Sinema will accept that number. But is that getting any positive traction in your caucus?

ESPAILLAT: Well, look, we had a very productive caucus meeting this afternoon. Of course, we have to see the details.

As you know, the devils in the detail. I fought very hard to include public transportation money in the package and monies to connect the communities that have been disenfranchised because of the building of, for example, the Cross Bronx Expressway.

So we have to see how that 2.1 number affects those particular projects. But, really, for me...

CABRERA: I'm sorry. Forgive me for a moment.

Isn't what you just described in the bipartisan infrastructure bill that has also been up for debate here that's already passed the Senate when you're talking about transportation projects and so forth?

ESPAILLAT: That's correct. But we have got to take a look at the infrastructure project to see where the cuts are going to be, because, if you have a reduction in the funding, obviously, there's going to be some cuts.

But, for me, the deal-breaker is really leaving immigrants behind in the reconciliation bill. And I have been assured by the speaker today that there will be some version of immigration reform in the reconciliation package.

And I think that's very encouraging for me. I don't want to leave the immigrants behind.

CABRERA: But I thought the parliamentarian said that couldn't happen.

In fact, I know that Democrats have gone back to the parliamentarian a couple times to try to weave some kind of immigration reform into that, and it's been shot down.

ESPAILLAT: That's correct. There are two versions that have been shut down. But we have five versions. We predicted that the parliamentarian may shoot down a couple of the versions that we presented. But there are three other versions.

And I have been assured by Speaker Pelosi that she's considering some of them to be included in that reconciliation bill.

CABRERA: So, that obviously is an example of the details that everybody needs to work out, your priority being, one, immigration.

Other priorities for other members are climate, and others want to make sure there aren't tax cuts for certain groups and so forth. So I guess one big question I have is, why aren't key progressives and key moderates all sitting at a table right now hammering this out?

ESPAILLAT: I think we are. That's called the Democratic Caucus. And that's where we just were.

And I think that we heard from progressives and moderates. They have different priorities, obviously. But I think there could be a consensus built. And I think Speaker Pelosi is doing a fantastic job at bringing us all together.

I think we're getting there. When we get there is another matter, but I think that we will get there. And it's really a manifestation of who we are as a caucus. We're very diverse. And that's our strength, because we have different points of views. But we always have the ability to come together. CABRERA: But is the communication efficient right now? Just this

morning, Congresswoman Debbie Dingell said Speaker Pelosi learned of Manchin's $1.5 trillion ceiling only last week.

I mean, how can that possibly be true?

ESPAILLAT: Well, there must be better communications between the Senate and the House. That's correct. I'm all for better communications.

But I tell you, this is never an easy task. As I said, you have different folks from different walks of life that have different priorities. But that's exactly what makes the Democratic Caucus a strong caucus, that I'm able to hear from somebody whose main interest is agriculture or tax reform.

And, for me, for example, it's public transportation, it's help for day care and immigration rights. That's what makes our party strong. We will come together and we will make sure that we have a successful meeting of the minds and pass both of these bills.

CABRERA: My understanding is, just as we have been speaking, we got word that President Biden is heading to Capitol Hill this afternoon to have conversations with key lawmakers to try to bridge this divide.

What do you need to hear from the president? What does he need to do and how can he be more helpful than he perhaps already has been?

ESPAILLAT: This is his plan. This is his vision. And we are supportive of his plan and his vision.

The question is, how bold will we be? How expansive we will be? We want to bring in as many people as possible. I talked about the food delivery people that used to bring Chinese food. And I used to tip them under the door right in the middle of a pandemic, because we were all afraid to get out there, the young women working, the cashiers at supermarkets, and even the people right here in the Capitol that clean our offices and work in our cafeteria.

[13:10:11]

We cannot leave them behind.

CABRERA: We do know Senator Manchin has put out some key elements of the bigger Biden plan that he agrees with, higher taxes on the rich, reduction in drug prices, expansions of pre-K, home health care, child tax credits.

Is that at this point common ground for all Democrats?

ESPAILLAT: Well, we have to see the details of what Senator Manchin is proposing.

Those are the things that certainly I will support. But I want to hear from him as to -- as it pertains to, for example, public transportation. I have the second phase of the Second Avenue subway in my district. I also have, obviously, a great need for day care.

Women were disproportionately hurt by the pandemic. Now they got to go back to work. They cannot do it unless they have day care. I want to hear about free community colleges, so we can train that work force, and they will be able to get prevailing wage jobs for this transportation infrastructure investment.

So there's a lot to be discussed. I think our leader, President Biden, is a visionary, and this is his plan. And I'm glad he's coming to the Capitol to discuss this today.

CABRERA: Do you think he can make the difference? Can he speed up the process?

ESPAILLAT: I believe he will make the difference.

I think that he will come here, and he will lay out his vision. We will hear about what these cuts mean, what does the reduction in the infrastructure plan mean in very precise details. We will hear about the reconciliation package.

CABRERA: Forgive me. Forgive me.

But I guess I'm confused. When you say reduction in the infrastructure package, are you talking about reducing the number that was already voted on, the amount that was voted on in the Senate that passed with bipartisan support, the $1.2 trillion infrastructure package? That right now is under consideration to be changed?

ESPAILLAT: No, I'm talking about the difference in the numbers that are being floated by Manchin and that we are proposing and putting on the table, both transportation infrastructure, and, of course, the human infrastructure proposal.

CABRERA: So you're talking about the combination?

And that -- your understanding then is that $2.1 trillion compromise that's been floated out there now would be -- it would incorporate both of those?

ESPAILLAT: Well, I hope that it is as broad as possible, and that it would include as many proposals as possible, so that it will have the ability to bring all of us together, whether the moderates or the Progressive Caucus members that actually have to go back home and show their constituency that this is a recovery for everybody.

CABRERA: OK, Congressman Adriano Espaillat, I really appreciate you taking the time.

ESPAILLAT: Thank you.

CABRERA: I know there's a lot of details to be worked out. We will continue to stay in touch.

Also breaking today, a potential game-changer in the fight to finally get back to normal, pharma giant Merck announcing it has a new pill that cuts the risk of hospitalization and death from COVID-19 by half.

But there are some caveats.

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[13:17:37]

CABRERA: Back now with a potential game-changer in the fight against COVID-19.

Drugmaker Merck is now planning to apply for emergency use authorization as soon as possible for an experimental pill that the company says cuts the risk of COVID hospitalization and death in half.

CNN's Elizabeth Cohen joins us for more on this.

Elizabeth, this would be the very first antiviral pill for COVID-19. What data does the company have? And how promising is this?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Ana, the company has data that is so promising that they actually stopped the clinical trial early.

Some experts that were monitoring the results saw that folks who got the drug did so much better than folks who got a placebo, which is a sort of a fake drug that -- pill that does nothing, that the folks who got the drug were doing so well that they decided to stop the clinical trial early and Merck can now apply for emergency use authorization.

Dr. Anthony Fauci said today that he expects the company to imminently submit data to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. So let's take a look at what we know so far about the data.

So, first of all, this is a drug for very early stages of COVID. The folks in the trial, they had had a positive COVID test only in the past five days, so very, very early on. None of them were in the hospital. It was more than 700 participants. Half of them got the antiviral drug and about half got the placebo, the drug that does nothing.

And in the placebo folks, 45 of them are hospitalized over the next month, and eight of them died. The folks who got the antiviral drug, only 28 were hospitalized and zero died.

So, as you can see, that is a substantial difference. And one note here, there is another drug that's out there for early stage COVID. It's monoclonal antibodies, for example, Regeneron. And that drug works really well to the two issues. One, it can be quite expensive. Also, it requires an intravenous flow. You have to do an intravenous infusion and or you have to give someone shots.

That's much more difficult. That's much more difficult to arrange. It's not so easy. This one, the doctor just calls an a prescription -- Ana.

CABRERA: Oh, it sounds so much more convenient. Elizabeth Cohen, thank you.

COHEN: thanks.

CABRERA: And let's discuss more with Dr. Richard Besser, former CDC acting director and president of the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.

Dr. Besser, happy Friday to you.

Merck plans to apply for emergency use here. Do you think they will get it?

[13:20:01]

DR. RICHARD BESSER, FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION: Well, Ana, I never like to make judgment based on a company press release. And that's all we have right now.

It's going to be really important for scientists to be able to look at the full study to see, who was in this study? Do they represent a general population? How are you going to pick who gets this and who doesn't? What were the side effects?

I always look at company press releases more about their stock price than about good science. But I'm very excited about a drug going forward to FDA for consideration. We do need better treatments. We do need oral therapy.

It's not a replacement for vaccination. Prevention is the best way to go.

CABRERA: Right.

BESSER: But when people get COVID, we need to be able to provide them with better treatment.

CABRERA: As you point out, vaccines remain our best defense. But experts say this antiviral pill could have potential even to limit spread within a household. And antivirals have been effective for other illnesses, we know, from hepatitis C to HIV to the flu.

One of the best known, of course, is Tamiflu. Would this drug work the same way?

BESSER: Well, this drug, from the company press release, is much more effective than the data that we have on Tamiflu.

But the questions will be, how many people need to be treated with this to see an impact? How selective was the population? I know it was individuals who had chronic medical conditions, conditions that put them at higher risk for severe disease. But we need to look at that.

And then, very importantly, if this is approved, how do you ensure that it gets to every community? We have seen time and time again that new treatments, better therapies are getting to communities that already have the best access to medical resources. How do we get this to lower-income communities, communities of color, where people have been hit the hardest, if this turns out to be an effective therapy?

CABRERA: There is another treatment that has had success, this monoclonal antibody treatment, but we know that involves a patient having to use an I.V.

Would this drug replace that, do you think? And could this drug, if it does turn out to be as good as it looks initially, could it be the missing link to returning to normal life?

BESSER: Well, again, I don't want to go too far based on a press release.

It is encouraging, what they're including there. Oral therapy is much better than having to go for I.V. therapy, in terms of access, in terms of convenience. This is two pills over the course of -- two pills a day for five days. That's pretty easy for people to manage.

But there's no information in terms of what it does for transmission. So, it's too early to say that this does anything in terms of reducing spread in a household or in the community. Again, vaccination is something that we do know reduces the likelihood of transmission.

CABRERA: And I do want to note some other promising news when it comes to vaccination, progress in that department as well.

The CDC says 77.3 percent of U.S. adults have now had at least one COVID vaccine dose.

BESSER: Yes.

CABRERA: Do you think that's why we're seeing a decline in new cases? Because, today, if you look at the average daily case rate, it is at the lowest it has been in more than seven weeks.

BESSER: Well, I can't answer the back end of that. But the front end of that, this is really encouraging news.

That is a great rate. The Kaiser Family Foundation put out data that breaks it down and looks to see, OK, how are we doing by group? And one of the things that really I found extremely encouraging is that the adult vaccination rate for black Americans, Latino Americans, white Americans is about the same, all hovering around 70 percent.

The biggest gaps we see are by political affiliation and by urban vs. rural. And when it comes to urban vs. rural, I think we need to look at, are there barriers to access in rural communities? Another point that CDC made this week is that people with disabilities represent the greatest potential for closing some of the vaccine gap.

That group has the largest percentage of people who still want to get vaccinated, but have had difficulty with access. So this is something at the community level that can be looked at is, what's being done to reach people where they are, what are the barriers that are there for people who have physical disabilities, intellectual disabilities, to ensure that those populations those communities are getting access as well.

CABRERA: That's such an important point.

Dr. Richard Besser, I really appreciate your time. Thanks for spending up with us.

BESSER: My pleasure, Ana. Thanks for having me on.

CABRERA: Now, take a look at this new disturbing video showing a crying and shaken Gabby Petito telling police how her fiance, Brian Laundrie, grabbed her by the face.

This new video comes amid several new developments in the search for Laundrie.

Plus, breaking just moments ago, California Governor Gavin Newsom announcing a new statewide vaccine mandate for schools. These are live pictures of his press conference right now. This is a first-in-the- nation, for a whole statewide mandate. The governor will join us live later this hour.

[13:25:00]

Stay with us. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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CABRERA: It may have been one of the last times Gabby Petito was publicly seen, and, today, disturbing new police bodycam video now lining up with a 911 call made back in August, where a bystander called police.