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Judge Holds Alex Jones Responsible for Damages by His False Claims on Sandy Hook Shooting; Biden Goes to Capitol Hill as His Domestic Agenda Is on the Line. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired October 01, 2021 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Alex Jones, the conspiracy theorist who called the Sandy Hook massacre a quote, giant hoax, is now being held legally responsible in two lawsuits for the damages triggered by his lies.

Jones and his right-wing web site Infowars effectively lost these cases by default after not complying with court orders to provide information for the lawsuits brought against him by the parents of two children killed in that school shooting.

Brian Stelter is CNN's chief media correspondent and host of Reliable Sources. Brian, he has tormented these parents. Alex Jones has said despicable things and tormented them. So now what will this cost him?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and this is one of the few examples of how someone who's defamed, who's attacked can actually seek restitution. This is, you know, a situation where the parents went to court to try to hold Alex Jones accountable for his sins.

And we don't know how much Jones will have to pay. That's going to be up to a jury now, now that the judge this week has said, well, you know, he has so thoroughly abused the court system, ignored the court's demands that he has lost and now the jury will decide how much he will have to pay.

In the meantime, the attorney for the plaintiffs, for the parents of these, you know, dead children, here's what the attorney says. He says after suffering five years of monstrous harassment by Jones, and after three years of Jones making a mockery of their lawsuits, our clients will finally have the closure they deserve.

I think we're going to see more and more of these cases, Alisyn, where disinformation artists, propagandists are dragged into the courtroom. And in this case, Jones was dragged kicking and screaming, refused to cooperate with the court and that's essentially why he lost the case.

CAMEROTA: Yes, he's a snake oil salesman. I mean his own lawyer during a 2013 court case in his divorce said to remember that Alex Jones is just playing a character, he's just a performance artist. I mean he's a snake oil salesman that sells venom, that's how vile what he does is. STELTER: Yes.

CAMEROTA: OK, let's switch, Brian, to something much more fun. The Super Bowl, as you know, I only watch for the half-time performance. Who's going to be playing?

STELTER: I love this. We're doing the darkness, and then the light. And I'm really excited by the performance this year.

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This is the first time in years where there's a lot of enthusiasm for the announcement about the Super Bowl half-time show. So, we know it's going to be Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, Eminem, Mary J. Blige and Kendrick Lamar, so they are going to come together for the half-time show in Englewood, in California coming up this winter.

It's an really interesting move by the producers, right. Instead of just booking one performer, instead of booking one big band or one super famous artist, they're bringing in a bunch of people, including a bunch of friends who are going to perform together, and I think in some ways that's the most interesting way to do this.

You know, the super bowl is about teamwork, and we're going to see all of these performers acting like a team at the half-time show.

CAMEROTA: OK, that is exciting. I like it, but I mean I was excited about the weekend and Lady Gaga. Don't say this is the only time people are excited. I'm excited about all of it. So, I think that this is an interesting tact and it will be really fun to watch. OK, Brian, great to see you.

STELTER: You too.

CAMEROTA: OK. In just minutes President Biden is heading to the Capitol Hill to meet with the Democrats to try to save his domestic agenda. We hear he's on his way right now, so let's go right now to Lauren Fox who is on Capitol Hill and Phil Mattingly who is at the White House

OK, Lauren, give us a sense of timing.

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Well, look, members are filing into this meeting. Obviously a very important one because it is a moment where the President really has a lot of work to do in this room to bring his moderate and progressive members into the fold.

Just remind everyone what they're fighting for, which is that there is an agenda that they ran on in 2020, but it may have to come in bits and starts. And certainly the drama up here has been whether or not there would be a vote on that $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill.

Progressives have been arguing all along, they want the Senate to vote first on a bigger social safety net bill, and they want some guarantees for moderates like Kyrsten Sinema and Joe Manchin about what they're going to be willing to support. Last night in the Capitol, there were hours of meetings with Sinema and Manchin trying to understand exactly where they might get to, and those meetings, you know, really ended with Manchin coming out and saying $1.5 trillion was still the number that he wanted to be at.

Of course, progressives have been looking more towards something like $3.5 trillion. So, there's a lot to really continue to work through, and that's just how much of a price tag is on the bill.

That doesn't include all the other differences over tax policy, over what exactly should be funded in terms of paid family leave, extended child tax credit, those are issues that the party is also working through.

So, the importance of this meeting today is to really just remind everyone exactly why they're here, whether or not this meeting ends with a conclusion of whether a vote will come to the floor is another question. But I think that this is really supposed to be an opportunity to remind everyone that they are part of the same party and that this is the moment to come together or you risk potentially blowing up the President and Democrats' agenda -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, so Phil, as we wait to see the President arrive on Capitol Hill there, the White House Press Secretary had said earlier that this is exactly the right time for the President to go and to basically make these argues to the members about he wants to have engagement and a back and forth in person. So, what's the plan?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and I think from the White House perspective, look, it's been fascinating to watch throughout the course of the week. We actually haven't seen the President at all really since an event on Monday morning. He hasn't been out. He hasn't been giving speeches. He's had members to the White House privately. He's been making a lot of phone calls, privately, but we haven't seen the President, and we haven't heard -- and I know Lauren's heard the same -- from a number of House Democrats who feel like they want to see the President more, they want to hear from the President more.

I think the White House viewed this as a key strategic moment to give that to House Democrats as they reach kind of the central moment of these negotiations, of these talks with everything more or less hanging in the balance. They want to send the President up there. They expect him to be there for about an hour.

My understanding from talking to White House officials is the President's really going to do two things, talk about the bigger picture here, but also talk about what the individual proposals mean, why they matter, why he put them there in the first place, and why Democrats not only ran on them in 2020, many of them have been advocating for these types of things for the course of years, if not decades.

And so, I think you're going to see some of that. You know it's interesting what Jim was alluding to there, sometimes they turn into a question-and-answer period. And I think the President probably wouldn't be opposed to that. We'll see if that ends of happening.

He's also tends to talk a lot. So, I don't know if there will be time for it as well. But I think you have to understand kind of the process that the President goes through in moments like this. He kind of seeks out opportunities to be engaging face to face with members of Congress, to be engaging face to face with people. That hasn't happened a whole lot this week.

My sense is he's probably looking forward to the opportunity now, and I think wants to take it advantage of that opportunity to have a captive audience of members who aren't all on the same page right now, but he needs them all to be in order to move forward the most critical component of his entire domestic agenda.

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CAMEROTA: Lauren, as you guys are speaking on the right side of our screen, we see, you know, a gaggle of folks waiting for the President, and in the farthest person there is Nancy Pelosi. We see her back. She is waiting at the threshold to welcome the President. What's the mood right now on Capitol Hill?

FOX: Well, I mean, I think that this is a huge moment for House Democrats because like Phil said, the argument on Capitol Hill over the last 48 hours has been why hasn't the President come out more explicitly to push for this $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill. They want to hear, especially the moderates who worked very closely with the White House on that bill, they want to hear the President say, look, progressives, I know you want more but can we just do this first, and that's really what moderates are looking for today.

Now, whether or not they're going to get that I think is another question entirely. One thing we do know is that Biden and the Speaker have been working hand in glove very closely on what to do here, and Biden really trusts the Speaker. He trusts her leadership. He trusts her ability to count votes. He trusts that she knows what's best in terms of the legislative process up here, and he's really let her guide this process with the Democratic caucus because that is her job, and he knows that his job is to come in when she asks for it and really try to rally the troops around the agenda.

But at the same time, I think it's just really important to kind of point out the strong relationship that these two really have, and the fact that they have been working, they both were talking to Sinema and Manchin last night, They both are trying to these have conversations where White House officials have been dispatched up here. But you know Pelosi and her staff have been just as much a part of those conversations.

CAMEROTA: I want to bring into the conversation now former Congressman Dennis Kucinich of Ohio. He was the last progressive holdout in 2010 during the all the negotiations around Obamacare. So, Congressman, take us into the room. I mean what happens in these negotiations when it's something this high stakes, and of course you have known Joe Biden for so long. What is his style as a negotiator? DENNIS KUCINICH, FORMER CONGRESSMAN (D-OH): Actually, I mean Joe Biden

and I both ran for Congress in 1972. He won, I didn't that year, and so we go back almost 50 years. He is practical and pragmatic. He is as down to earth as a president that we've had. And he has that expanse of legislative experience beyond what almost anybody who's in the president in modern times of this country has had with the exception of Lyndon Johnson.

And because of that, he knows what legislators are thinking. He understands what their concerns are. And he has the capacity to be able to address not only what the moderates are looking for but what the progressives are looking for.

And he has the ability to be able to reach out across the Senate and across the House and help shape the package to reach an agreement. Now, frankly, Nancy Pelosi is the one that's shepherding that in the House, but I think that Joe Biden has the kind of skills that will help deliver the infrastructure bill today and that will help deliver his agenda.

If anybody can sell it, there's no one else who has a better capacity to do it than President Biden. He has it. He has extraordinary people skills, and he knows legislators, because he's been one of them.

CAMEROTA: Phil and Lauren, do you both -- but first with Phil -- do we know really what this is going to look like today? Is somehow Senator Manchin going to be in the same room as Congresswoman Jayapal? I mean what -- how's this going to happen?

MATTINGLY: So, I mean, I defer to my colleague on The Hill where I used to work and live for a very long time. But I may be a little bit dated here, that said, it's a House Democratic caucus meeting, right, so this is going to be House Democrats. Senators generally don't cross the Capitol to the House side, they often thumb their noses at it.

And House members don't like Senators so it probably wouldn't be a good place to interact. But I think what you're going to see if it's like a normal caucus meeting is the entire Democratic caucus is going to be seated in this room, in the basement of the Capitol, and the President will have the floor.

In terms of the how the format goes, it largely will be dependent on what the President wants. I think the expectation is that the Speaker will introduce him, and then the President will take the floor and they'll see how things go from there.

I think my biggest question right now -- and Lauren may know more about this than me -- is will there be a q and a period?

It depends on the President, it depends on the moment, it depends on how much time he has. But given what's stake right now and I think the Congressman makes a good point here, the President is extraordinary self-assured when it comes to his ability to both talk to lawmakers and sell his legislative proposals, and I think the opportunity to take questions, to answer questions, and to really kind of give his view on things is something the President certainly wouldn't shy away from if it presents itself.

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But within an hour time period, which I think is the rough expectation right now, I'm not totally sure whether or not he's going to get that.

CAMEROTA: OK, Lauren, what do you know about what this is going to look like, and do you expect the President to leave with a done deal or is this more of a pep talk?

FOX: Well, I'll start with the second question, Alisyn, I mean, I've been talking to aides up here all day long about whether or not there is any framework agreement that is imminent, and essentially because we still know that Joe Manchin is sitting around $1.5 trillion and what he believes is appropriate for that larger social safety net plan, we don't expect that that framework is going to be announced or come together right this second.

And I think that that's going to take some time. I really think that members going into this meeting today, they need to just be reminded exactly what they're fighting for, and also how long this process can take because when you're talking about legislation that does the kinds of things that this $3.5 trillion bill that Democrats want to pass does, which is expanding the child tax credit, which is paid family leave, any of those items individually would be a massive achievement for Democrat.

And so I think that the President today just has to remind folks of that fact, and you know, the question is going to be whether or not members get an opportunity to ask the President things, you know, a lot of these members have had private audiences in the oval office in small groups, whether that's the progressive caucus or moderate members.

The President is not someone they don't know but it is a good opportunity for them maybe after this week having so much back and forth, that both sides so dug in on their positions, maybe this is an opportunity for the President to try to break some of those divides loose. And that's what the focus is going to be today.

Now, again, you know, they're going to go into this meeting. They're going to have this private conversation, and the expectation is that when they come out, or the hope is, I guess, among Democrats that they will have found some kind of unity. But what that looks like, in what form, whether that means a vote happens today, we just don't know at this point.

CAMEROTA: Congressman, you and I were talking earlier about when you went through this, when you were the sole progressive -- the last I should say -- progressive holdout and you talked about the feeling, the weight of the country on your shoulders -- we think this is the motorcade of the President pulling up -- and about how you went to the Lincoln statue and you prayed on it, well, I mean that's really powerful of course.

This time around there are more progressives than just one. I mean, progressives seem to have, you know, linked arms, and there are dozens of them who are saying we're not budging. And so, it will be a different dynamic than obviously what President Obama had with you when he had to persuade you. Today it's going to be different for Joe Biden.

KUCINICH: Well, right, and you have to remember, again, President Obama did not persuade me. I had to make a decision apart from anything he told me, because he didn't make any concessions. I had to make a decision what I felt was best for my country, for my constituents, and for the Obama presidency.

And I think that those considerations are going to fall upon the shoulders of all members of Congress, not just progressives. What's best for the country, their constituency, and the Joe Biden's presidency because that affects the members as well.

So, I'm hopeful that this talk that the President will have with the caucus will cause people to look at the identity of interest, which all members of Congress have. And if that happens, hopefully they'll find a path to yes. I believe --

CAMEROTA: Here he is. We just had a brief shot there of President Biden getting out of the SUV, part of his motorcade, and here he is, arriving on the Capitol.

There's lots of people in the foreground, obviously. Sort of obscuring our view, but we know that Nancy Pelosi, Speaker of the House was there to greet him, and we expect to see them walking side by side any moment.

We see, yes, there they are, in fact. So yes, Phil, tell us about this dynamic. What's the relationship between President Biden and Speaker Pelosi here?

MATTINGLY: Look, I think Lauren gave a great window into one of the most important elements of this entire week. Basically, when you talk to White House officials about how the President views the Speaker it's just implicit all out, no hesitation, full trust with whatever she thinks is right, he is willing to move forward with.

CAMEROTA: Hold on one second, Phil, let's listen if we can to what he's saying.

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He's meeting -- no. All right, Phil, he was just meeting there with the House Democratic leadership. They were all wearing masks but everybody looked happy to see him. He was shaking hands. He said something funny. They laughed. That's about all the color that we got there from what he said. So, continue, Phil.

MATTINGLY: Yes, I was just, look, you look at that leadership team and it's a team that has long ties to President Biden and long ties to Democratic leadership. They've all been around from Majority Leader Steny Hoyer to Jim Clyburn as well, Katherine Clark is a little bit newer on the leadership team, so is Hakeem Jeffries, who a lot of people look at as kind of the potential heir apparent to Speaker Pelosi whenever she departs.

It's a leadership team that I think has trust within their caucus but has never been confronted with the dynamics that exist in their current caucus, right. The progressives -- and you made this point earlier, the Congressman knows this quite well -- progressives have both never had the numbers, the power or their willingness to use that power that they've exerted over the course of the last several days.

And that's changed the dynamics of how leadership operates and it's changed the dynamics of how the White House operates and I think that's in large part or that plays such a significant role into why the President's relationship with the Speaker is so important at this moment in point in time. And that is the trust exists. But also as one White House official told me yesterday, when I was asking, is the President going to go up today? Is the President going to have Congressman over to the White House today? And the person laughed and just said, the President will do whatever the Speaker asks.

Basically, at this point in time, understanding that she knows her caucus and the track record is unparalleled in terms of getting things across the finish line. Clearly his decision to go forward with the trip up to Capitol Hill today will not be made without the Speaker saying that's what was needed. That is what she wanted.

And I think what the President wants to accomplish today or what we get the sense from talking to White House officials that the President wants to accomplish today is with that very empowered progressive portion of the caucus, with the moderates who want a very specific thing on this infrastructure proposal is to try to take things out of arcane negotiations over very micro issues and more into the bigger elements of what can be accomplished holding an extraordinarily bare majority in the House. Literally no margin for error in the Senate and a Democrat in the White House to actually do the things that many of them have wanted to do for decades.

CAMEROTA: Let's listen to see if President Biden says anything here.

All right, he let his thumbs-up do the talking therefore him as you heard the gaggle of reporters trying to get him to answer something, but he, obviously, has bigger fish to fry at the moment since he just moved on and is going in to meet with those members.

Lauren, what constitutes success? I mean what must he lead with in a couple of hours for this visit to have been successful?

FOX: Yes, I've been talking to a lot of folks up here today about that. What could the President accomplish? And I think the biggest thing he can walk away with is to just bring down the temperature a little bit between the moderates and progressives up here. It just seems to get ratcheted up day in, day out.

And I think he just has to come up here and tell everyone this is the agenda we've all agreed on. It may not happen exactly how we had hoped it would or in what order we had hoped it would but let's take a step back and understand what we are fighting for. So I think that's the first thing that could be considered a victory

for the President. But the second thing that he's really going to be trying to underscore today is that this is a moment that, if they don't get anything done, the option of failure is that you potentially could lose the House, you could lose the Senate and in two more years potentially you could be up against former President Donald Trump again and you could be running on an agenda that was very thin.

And I think that that is something that Democrats up here have been talking to me about that their concern isn't just about the next two years but also what happens in four years if there's a Presidential election and you have not accomplished what you had promised that you would accomplish. And former President Donald Trump is running again.

That's a real thing that Democrats up here are talking about. So I know that's far removed from this current moment but I think if the President is going to impress on his caucus anything, it's that this is not just about today or this week or who gets a vote on which day. But this is about the bigger picture. And I think that is really where a victory could be seen.

CAMEROTA: Congressman, they are now behind closed doors. We have about one minute left in our program. What are your thoughts?

KUCINICH: You know, this is an absolutely critical moment for the country, let alone the Democratic party and President Biden. And I'm sure that every member has to come to that realization that this particular vote -- these particular votes, whether it's an infrastructure vote or the social spending, these are key votes and we have to do what's best for the country.

Now, look, can I predict the outcome? No. But do I think they'll find a path considering the stakes to get together?

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Yes, I think they will. And do the progressives have a right to hold out for something more than what's apparent at this point? Absolutely. But there comes a point where you have to just decide what's a victory? And when you can claim a victory and then move on, united.

CAMEROTA: Yes, I mean the question of what's best for the country is where the rubber meets the road. I mean, that's the issue because every time we speak to either a progressive or moderate, they have a different impression of what is best for the country but we'll see today what President Biden negotiates, what he leaves with.

Dennis Kucinich, thank you very much, Phil Mattingly, Lauren Fox, thank you both.

Our coverage continues on "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper after this very quick break.

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