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U.S. Reaches 700,000 COVID-19 Deaths Since Start Of Pandemic; Speaker Pelosi Pushes Deadline For Infrastructure Deal To October 31st; New January 6th Audio Released; Far-Right Is Behind Its Own "Great Replacement"; Supreme Court Justices On Critics In Rare Public Remarks. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired October 02, 2021 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:20]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

The United States has reached its latest heartbreaking pandemic milestone. Losing now 700,000 people to COVID-19. President Biden today calling it yet another reminder of just how important it is to get vaccinated, and despite the fact that effective vaccines are widely available, 100,000 of those COVID deaths came in the last three and a half months. One new hopeful sign, pharmaceutical giant Merck announcing that their antiviral pill cuts hospitalizations and deaths by half.

Experts say it won't be a replacement for the vaccines, which are even more effective. It's why local leaders and businesses across the country have worked to implement vaccine mandates. Three major airlines are now adding vaccine requirements for workers, American, Alaska Airlines, and JetBlue. And California becomes the first state to require COVID-19 vaccination for students who attend in person classes.

Within the next few weeks, the FDA will meet to discuss data on Pfizer's vaccine for children ages 5 to 11. And here to discuss that Dr. Megan Ranney. She's professor of emergency medicine and associate dean of public health at Brown University.

Dr. Ranney, thank you so much for being with us. What would it mean for the big picture of this pandemic if vaccines are authorized for children ages 5 to 11? I suppose that's a decent chunk that will get that fully vaccinated number that we have on our screen to go up somewhat.

DR. MEGAN RANNEY, PROFESSOR OF EMERGENCY MEDICINE, BROWN UNIVERSITY: That's exactly right. You know, as a mom, the thought of getting my kid who lies in that 5 to 11-year-old bracket finally vaccinated, it's just huge. Right? It takes a weight off of my family, allows us to feel a little less nervous about going out and about and doing things. As a doctor and as a public health professional, I know that my kid, my 10-year-old, is not at really high risk of getting super sick or hospitalized. But if he catches COVID, he would be part of the spread in the

community. One of the things that we've seen over and over again, Jim, throughout this pandemic is that kid, although they don't get really sick, are drivers of COVID moving throughout our community. And that's going to be the biggest thing about getting these kids vaccinated. It takes a little bit of worry away from parents, but even more so, it helps us to tamp down the number of cases which helps us move back towards normal.

ACOSTA: Yes, I can't imagine what a relief that will be for families when that happens. Let's discuss Merck's antiviral pill. Lots of questions out there. There's no way we can answer them all, but Merck says it reduces hospitalization and death by half. How important is that?

RANNEY: It's terrific. I mean, having a pill that actually works for those folks that come into my ER and are a little bit sick, but not yet sick enough to be hospitalized, that would be tremendous and it's something that we've been wanting as physicians throughout this pandemic.

But as you mentioned in the headlines, this pill will not replace vaccines. The best way to avoid severe disease, hospitalization or death remains going out and getting those two shots of Moderna and Pfizer or your single shot of J&J. It's going to be so much better than any pill.

ACOSTA: Yes, absolutely. And I suppose if you are vaccinated and you somehow get a breakthrough case, that that pill may help you as well, right?

RANNEY: You know, we think so. I should note that so far the pill has been tested mostly in those higher risk folks. People who are elderly, immunosuppressed, have other high-risk conditions. We don't yet fully know how it's going to work in the vaccinated but I would expect so that it would be helpful for us. That said, of course, once you're vaccinated, the chance of you getting really sick is really small. So I don't know how much it will be needed for those of us that have had our full series of shots.

ACOSTA: Very good point. Very good point.

Governors are beginning to report encouraging signs in their state. COVID-19 numbers cannot come soon enough. But governor of Georgia, Brian Kemp, he just warned his residents not to wait until the next wave of COVID cases to get vaccinated.

It's important coming from a Republican governor to hear that. How concerned are you about another spike as we head into the winter months? We're already in fall. You can get your flu shot out there. If you haven't done so, please do so. But what are your thoughts on that?

RANNEY: So there are two parts to it. One is as we all head indoors, especially if we're heading indoors without a mask, we are going to see new small surges across the country. Particularly in the north and northeast where we've largely escaped this Delta surge. So the trouble is that as those even small surges happen, our healthcare system, Jim, is already at the breaking point. We're understaffed, we're overwhelmed, we have tons of sick patients.

[16:05:04]

There's not a lot of hospital beds, so even those little surges are just going to put us over and put us into those crises care situations that we've seen throughout the summer in Idaho, Montana, Louisiana and elsewhere. The other part is that there are probably other variants around the corner and again and again in this pandemic, we've made it through a wave and everyone has said, woo-hoo, we're done. Right? That's not how this virus works.

Now is the time to go out and get your shot before another surge comes. Now is also the time to continue wearing that mask indoors. If you're in crowded, indoor locations until the numbers go down a little further.

ACOSTA: And if people are worried out there because they've had their COVID shots and they're worried about getting their flu shot because, you know, they're just worriers. There are people who are worriers about this sort of thing. What are your thoughts on that?

RANNEY: You know, I'm getting this question almost every day from my patients in the emergency department, from my nurses and colleagues. There are a couple of important things to know. The first is, if you have not gotten your COVID shot, you can safely get the flu shot and the COVID vaccine together. So don't avoid one of them just because you haven't gotten the COVID shot yet.

Second thing is, flu shot works totally differently from how COVID shot works. And of course, flu and COVID are really different viruses. So again, just because you've gotten your COVID vaccine doesn't mean to avoid the flu vaccine. We don't yet know how bad this year's flu epidemic is going to be.

Usually, it's pretty bad in the winter especially after a mild year, but the signs that we watch like the level of flu in Australia, we just don't have those this year because of the lockdowns that Australia has been under.

So the best thing to do is go and get that flu shot, avoid that risk of getting the symptoms that will make you go into quarantine until you get a COVID test. So get your flu shot, get your COVID shots, the best way to protect yourself this winter.

ACOSTA: All right, Dr. Megan Ranney, great advice. Thanks so much. We appreciate it.

RANNEY: Thank you, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. And House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is giving the House another month to pass the massive $1.2 trillion bipartisan infrastructure deal, admitting that right now she simply doesn't have the votes until progressives in the House can reach a deal with moderates in the Senate on the larger $3.5 trillion spending bill. She writes this morning, put this up on screen, "Negotiations will continue now with more time for decisions, legislative language, Senate parliamentary review and public awareness."

CNN's senior Washington correspondent, Joe Johns, is up on Capitol Hill and joins me now.

We were waiting for that moment, Joe Johns, where Nancy Pelosi does not like to give up. She is not a quitter. Can't imagine that was an easy statement for her or her office to put out.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Right. You know, look. It's three-dimensional chess right now and the fact of the matter is the negotiating goes on and on and on. Democratic progressives up here frankly are flexing their muscles. They're demanding that $3.5 trillion social safety net bill while Democratic moderates are balking at that price tag and continue to push for the president's infrastructure bill.

The president for his part, by the way, Jim, has said a couple of things. In fact, today, number one, the president said, look, I think all of this can get done, but he's also very aware of the math up here on Capitol Hill and the House and Senate. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We could bring the moderates and progressives together very easily, if we had two more votes. Two. Two people.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: So this back and forth continues to create a lot of tension up here on Capitol Hill. Democratic Senator Kyrsten Sinema put out a statement earlier today indicating in her view that she was deeply disappointed in the fact that the House of Representatives has failed to hold a vote on that infrastructure bill and she says it's disappointing for communities across the United States.

The one bright spot now, the Senate has passed that one bill that was of certain controversy. Essentially a 30-day extension of the Highway Trust Fund. That means that about 3700 people who were in the zone for being furloughed are now out of danger.

Jim, back to you.

ACOSTA: Another can kicked down the road, but there are some cans that are going to have to be dealt with sooner or later, talking about those two spending packages.

All right, Joe Johns, thanks so much. We appreciate it.

Coming up, what new audio reveals about the desperate struggle by police to control the mob on January 6th.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:13:52]

ACOSTA: People throughout the nation and around the world watched in shock as a violent mob descended on the U.S. Capitol on January 6th, but we're now learning what we saw then wasn't even the start of the violence that day. Newly released audio reveals that U.S. Park Police were encountering angry crowds at sites around Washington, D.C. hours before the attack on the Capitol.

CNN's Whitney Wild has more.

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Jim, what this audio shows is that hours before Capitol police were overrun by protesters, there were pro-Trump protesters in Washington already causing problems. Park Police had a very difficult time controlling these crowds.

It was clear from their radio audio that these protesters weren't going to listen to police. For example, police were saying over and over, we're staring at hundreds of people, they won't leave, they will not listen to us.

In one moment there were Park Police who had retreated basically into the Washington Monument with someone they had arrested and they were surrounded by protesters waiting for a safe exit. This audio, which is so enlightening, was collected by and obtained by Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington. Again, it is giving a very colorful, firsthand look at how many security issues the U.S. Park Police was dealing with throughout Washington even before the riot at the Capitol.

[16:15:09]

Here's a brief snippet of what was more than seven hours of radio transmission.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a mob of onlookers inside the flag circle right outside the entrance to the monument. So just be advised. When you're coming up to get the prisoner to stand by for now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have an arrestee inside the Washington Monument. We're going to temporarily close it right now so we can further assess what we need to do with the prisoner. There's a large crowd surrounding the monument right now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The prisoner is inside the base of the monument with multiple Park Police officers. But they are completely surrounded with protesters and they're trying to figure out a plan, how to get the arrestee down to the wagon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have individuals with shields and gas masks at the statue.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, they're at the Lincoln statue with shields and masks? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 10-4. And taking pictures right now with a flag

that says (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Antifa.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Myself and 21 directs for the units of 141, monitor only, do not take any type of enforcement action. Let it happen.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

WILD: Jim, what is abundantly clear from these radio transmissions is that Park Police was dealing with a dynamic situation. Basically everything was happening at the same time and then further, they had this big security risk in backpacks that were left out on the sidewalk because a lot of protesters came to the "Stop the Steal" rally thinking they could bring in their backpacks and when they found out they couldn't, they just left them on the street.

So they were trying to deal with these unattended bags, which posed a security risk. All of these other flareups that were happening throughout D.C., it just shows just how dynamic and challenging the situation was for law enforcement again hours before the riot -- Jim.

ACOSTA: Whitney Wild, thanks so much for that.

The House Select Committee investigating January 6th is still piecing together that chaotic and deadly scene. One piece they're looking at is whether intelligence failures factored in. But what if they weren't failures?

My next guest is a whistleblower who said the Department of Homeland Security routinely ignored and manipulated intelligence that would make Trump look bad on Russia, domestic extremism and the border. Brian Murphy, former acting undersecretary for intelligence at DHS, joins me now.

Brian, did Trump security officials make decisions that, in your view, downplayed some of these threats that contributed to January 6th?

BRIAN MURPHY, FORMER ACTING UNDERSECRETARY, DHS OFFICE OF INTELLIGENCE AND ANALYSIS: Absolutely. And I was just watching the clip and I think to get to the point where those Park Police officers were surrounded and not aware ahead of time what was happening is really kind of that final marker. The intimidation of the intelligence community, the change of direction, the lack of resources, all those things were started weeks and months beforehand. So

by the time it came to that unfortunate day on January 6th, organizations like the Park Police and the Capitol Police are largely dependent on bigger federal agencies such as the FBI and DHS to get the intelligence they need to prepare in advance. They don't have the, you know, broad domestic reach. So those officers were caught off guard. It's clear by the audio. And that's just a, you know, what it all led to in some respects.

ACOSTA: It's incredible. I mean, to listen to that audio and to think, I mean, we knew -- we thought we knew everything about January 6th up until this point, clearly we don't if there was an incident at the Washington Monument. More extensive than just what was happening at the Capitol.

But let me ask you this, do you think some DHS officials need to testify before the January 6th committee? I mean, members of the committee have talked about wanting to get to the root cause of what took place on January 6th. What do you think?

MURPHY: I think there's a lot of DHS officials that owe an explanation. Chief among them is Joseph Maher, who's the (INAUDIBLE) replaced me. He shut down all of the collection that we had in place that would have I'm as, you know, sure as I'm sitting here that we would have found and detected. These people were not hiding as we know. This is in plain sight and he shut that down and strikingly he's now on the committee as a member, you know, serving under one of the Republicans.

And I'm for the committee, you know, finding the truth, the objective truth, and I'm concerned that one of the people who needs to testify is actually working on the committee. Investigating himself.

ACOSTA: And you alleged that Chad Wolfe and Ken Cuccinelli gave the orders to ignore or massage intelligence. They've denied it. But let me ask you, do you think that they got this directive from the White House? Is there anything that indicates that they got this from the White House? Because I remember from covering the administration there were things that were just unspoken and you understood it if you worked in various parts of the federal government, that Trump really cared or officials around him really about. What do you think?

MURPHY: Sure. So I can't confirm that. I was never told that directly, but I share the idea that you just expressed, that it was unsaid from -- on high down or if it was said, it was certainly implied and directed from Cuccinelli and Wolf to stay away from white supremacy because of Charlottesville and what happened.

[16:20:14]

It became a, you know, politically toxic issue for the president for some reason, and after that it was everything to stop the intelligence from coming forward.

ACOSTA: And let me ask you this, what kind of intelligence are we talking about? Do you think that there was sort of a, an edict, unspoken edict perhaps to stay away from the Proud Boys? To stay away from the Oath Keepers? If questions were raised about the Oath Keepers and the Proud Boys and those kind of extremist groups, did you have officials from high up coming down on you or diverting your attention to other things?

MURPHY: Certainly. And you know it wasn't --

ACOSTA: How did that work? Did you experience that? How did that work?

MURPHY: Absolutely. So, you know, it wasn't just them coming down on us, they wanted to change the narrative to amplify, you know, groups on the left, like Antifa, which certainly are dangerous, but they're not on the same scale. You know, I just always found it I think foolish of them not to

recognize the past that white supremacy has killed more Americans, with the exception -- year-over-year, with the exception of two or three years of the last 20 years.

So like to say that white supremacy is the biggest terrorism threat in terms of the number of people unfortunately killed in the U.S. by this, it's math -- you know, it's easy to look up. It's on the internet. These statistics are kept. So why would that be something that they don't want to put out? Surprising to me.

ACOSTA: Yes, why is that? And speaking of that, you say that white supremacy was one of these third rail issues. A key idea that some of these extremists are pushing is something called replacement theory. I'm sure you've heard about it. You know about it. Now we're hearing it from Republicans in addition to certain people on FOX News. But we're hearing from Republicans as well. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Joe Biden has thrown the border wide open and our country is being invaded by hundreds of thousands of people every single month. This is an invasion.

REP. BRIAN BABIN (R-TX): They want to replace the American electorate with a third world electorate.

REP. LOUIE GOHMERT (R-TX): It's an insurgence, an invasion.

REP. SCOTT PERRY (R-PA): As we're replacing national born American -- native born Americans to permanently transform the political landscape of this very nation.

SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): This administration wants complete open borders and you have to ask yourself why. Is it really they want to remake the demographics of America to ensure that they stay in power forever?

ACOSTA: What do you think about that?

MURPHY: You know, I think that's disinformation at its base level and foments polarization, which is really the threat we face here. You know, I'm fortunate enough to join a company called Logically out of the U.K. that works on disinformation. And what was said there, the othering of our fellow citizens for reasons that are toxic and actually not true is what the problem is in the United States in my estimation.

So I'm glad I can continue the efforts to look at disinformation because it's a problem. And these people are putting out half-truths and disinformation for political gain.

ACOSTA: And Trump has talked about running again in 2024. He's making it pretty clear he's probably going to run. And you have said that that would be a disaster for democracy, but the fact is most Republicans want it. They want him back. As scary as that might be for the country. What does that say to you? Where are we right now?

MURPHY: You know, as I've said before, I'm a Republican, I voted for Trump the first time around.

ACOSTA: You voted for him. Did you think it was going to turn out this way?

MURPHY: No. I mean, for me, it wasn't a choice that -- wasn't my first choice, but I did vote for him. I think for where we're headed, if he does get the nomination and is elected, we're going to walk into a hybrid illiberal democracy similar to a lot of other countries that have tilted back away from a liberal democratic society that we live in and we're going to backslide.

ACOSTA: Brian Murphy, I hope you're wrong on that count. But I think some of the warning signs are there as well. I saw up close and personal myself and it sounds like you did as well. Thanks for those insights. Like to have you back if we can some time. Appreciate it.

MURPHY: Certainly. Thank you.

ACOSTA: All right. Thanks, Brian.

Coming up, do as FOX's top talent says, but apparently not as they do. As this picture from inside the FOX News studio in D.C. reveals the top talent and leaders of the network are all masked, but some at the network still insist on spreading deadly misinformation.

Our "Hold On" segment on that is next.

[16:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: Tucker Carlson is obsessed with something called great replacement theory. He talks about it a lot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST: To change the racial mix of the country. That's the reason. To reduce the political power of people whose ancestors lived here and dramatically increase the proportion of Americans newly arrived from the third world. In political terms, this policy is called the great replacement.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: It's a white supremacist talking point. Tucker Carlson a theory because that makes him sound smarter. He also like to spread his theories about the vaccine, raising questions about their effective and slamming mandates.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: People feel so desperate and alone, at this point if you haven't gotten the vaccine, which is free and readily available, there's a reason for it. You've thought this through and decided not to. You thought that was your right. But people are being forced to. Some are being forced to getting fake vaccine cards, which is understandable, I think, because they feel forced, they're trapped.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

[16:30:00]

ACOSTA: And of course, we know this is a recurring theme on FOX with host after host injecting misinformation into the minds of their viewers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST, "THE INGRAHAM ANGLE": We now know that when they say the hospitals though are being overwhelmed, it's almost always a lie.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: This echo chamber includes far right lawmakers in Congress amplifying the hysteria.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): Vaccinating into a pandemic could be dangerous. You could have variants produced that evade the vaccine. I think maybe that's what's happened with Delta.

I don't know. I'm not a doctor, not a medical researcher, but I talk to a lot of them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: I don't know, I'm not a doctor, but I talk to a lot of them. The Senator from the great state of denial.

But there are consequences from this dishonesty. The fast majority of the deaths are the unvaccinated. According to the CDC, unvaccinated are 11 times more likely to die of COVID.

Take a look at this map from the front page of "The New York Times." This is where they took their last breaths. Overwhelmingly in the south. Overwhelmingly in red states. Overwhelmingly in places where FOX News occupies a lot of screen time.

Two weeks ago, I showed you this video, the growing memorial on the National Mall, where each American killed by the virus is represented by a white flag. On September 18th, there were 670,000.

Last night, we crossed another painful threshold, 700,000 Americans dead.

Among those dead are people who were fed lies by online mis misinformation, by the former president, who was dismissive of science, and got a shot in hiding. And they were lied to each night by this guy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST, "TUCKER CARLSON TONIGHT": If vaccines work, why are vaccinated people still banned from living normal lives? Honestly, what's the answer to that? It doesn't make any sense at all.

If the vaccine is effective, there's no reason for people who have received the vaccine to wear masks or avoid physical contact. So maybe it doesn't work and they're simply not telling you that.

So what is the real number of people who apparently who have been killed or injured by the vaccines? Well, don't know that number. Nobody does. And we're not going to speculate about it on the show.

But it's clear that whatever is happening now, for whatever reason, is not even close to normal. Not even close to what we see in previous years with previous vaccines. Most vaccines are not accused of killing large numbers of people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: These are all lies.

The theory that Tucker should really address is FOX replacement theory. FOX replacement theory. There's no way to replace the Americans whose flags on the mall represent.

And, Tucker, talking to you right now, there's no way to replace the viewers whose lives you are endangering with your lies.

These lies may sadly capture your viewers' attention. But keep it up. Some of those folks, not all of them, some of them might not be around anymore to listen to your lies.

It's not just Tucker. You've seen the big-name NBA players who say they don't want to get vaccinated. They're lucky. They're young. It's likely they won't die.

Perhaps you noticed Ted Cruz tweeted he's in solidarity with these players. Didn't realize he was such a big fan. Did the Rockets suddenly move to Cancun?

Just as an aside, he even used the hash tag -- did you see that -- "Your body, your choice." He's from Texas where abortion is all but banned now. But I digress.

Of course, Ted Cruz is just using these players to play to the anti- vaxxers and the GOP. They want to own the libs. Even if they don't end up owning the living.

Here's a concept. Don't own the libs. Own the lives. Own the living. By living.

Yes, I've heard the excuses about getting the vaccine. You don't know what's in it. If you don't know, as my mother would say, look it up.

As I was getting ready to do this show, I was thinking I don't know what's in this shampoo or in this toothpaste. I don't know what happens if I use the shampoo and the toothpaste at the same time. And neither do you. I mean, besides getting clean, of course.

But when it comes to the vaccine, all of a sudden, you want to play dress up, put on a lab coat and do your own research over accepting the advice of medical professionals and your research consists of listening to Tucker and the Internet?

It's October, so I was thinking about ending this segment with this meme from Halloween. "I did my own research." Memes are funny.

But I'd rather end with this image. It's of the recently renovated FOX News offices here in Washington, D.C. Almost all the people in that photo, see it right now, that's at FOX here in Washington. Wearing masks.

[16:35:09]

Apparently, 90 percent of company employees have been vaccinated. Might even be higher than that now.

The FOX slogan used to be, "We report you decide." Maybe it's, "We mandate, you comply." Perhaps now it's, "Your body, your choice." Your body. Your choice.

And just look at the choices that they made. I guess they don't want to be replaced.

Coming up, the Supreme Court justices don't hold back their unusually candid comments about deep divisions growing deeper behind the scenes.

And later, a low flying drone meets its demise in the wildest way possible. We'll hear from the man at the controls.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:40:30]

ACOSTA: A noticeable series of rare public opinions these days from the justices and it's the tone that's so extraordinary.

The most recent from Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito, who took on critics who accused the court of being sneaky and sinister with late- night decisions.

CNN's Jessica Schneider has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The start of the new Supreme Court term is Monday, but the justices have been unusually outspoken in the weeks leading up to their return to the bench. Five of the nine justices have made public appearances in recent

weeks, speaking out about the divisions that have been deepening behind the scenes.

CLARENCE THOMAS, U.S. SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: I think the court was thought to be the least dangerous branch and we may have become the most dangerous.

SCHNEIDER: The danger in his mind is that the media and the public portray the court as political.

Clarence Thomas is the senior most justice on the court. He spoke to students at the University of Notre Dame, insisting he is driven by the law, not his own opinion.

THOMAS: They think you're anti-abortion or something personally. They think that that's the way you always will come out. They think you're for this or for that, they think you become like a politician. And I think that's a problem.

SCHNEIDER: The Supreme Court ignited a firestorm last month when it allowed a restrictive Texas abortion law, essentially banning the procedure after six weeks to take effect.

The 5-4 decision came down in the middle of the night without a hearing, causing critics to slam the action as part of the courts so- called shadow docket.

A new Gallup poll conducted right after shows a plummeting approval rating of 40 percent, the lowest in 20 years.

The liberal justices lashed out with stinging dissents when the decision came down and some have spoken out since then, off camera and on.

Justice Sonia Sotomayor was blunt about what she thinks lies ahead. "There's going to be a lot of disappointment in the law, a huge amount. Look at me, look at my dissents."

Justice Stephen Breyer, who had been pushed by progressives to retire last summer, minced no words on the Texas decision in an interview with CNN.

STEPHEN BREYER, U.S. SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: I thought they were wrong.

SCHNEIDER: The conservative justices have been pushing back. The newest Justice Amy Coney Barrett appeared in an event with the top Senate Republican Mitch McConnell and declared, "My goal today is to convince you that this court is not comprised of a bunch of partisan hacks".

Justice Samuel Alito was even more forceful in his speech yesterday, at times blasting the media for portraying the now conservative- leaning court as "a dangerous cabal, deciding important issues in a novel, secretive, improper way in the middle of the night."

Alito calling that criticism very misleading.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: And our thanks to Jessica for that.

Joining us now, CNN chief legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin.

Jeffrey, there's so much to talk about here.

I mean, first of all, some of these justices are a little sensitive about getting criticized. But you know, I mean, when Amy Coney Barrett appears at an event with Mitch McConnell, I mean, what do you expect?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Well, and what a coincidence, Jim. The -- Amy Coney Barrett appeared at Mitch McConnell with McConnell in Louisville. Neil Gorsuch, after he was confirmed, appeared with McConnell in Louisville. Brett Kavanaugh appeared in Louisville with Mitch McConnell.

Who do you think they owe their seats to? They can argue that politics is not part of the court, but you know, those of us who follow the court and ordinary citizens can see what's in front of their eyes.

And politics is now and always has been an integral part of the Supreme Court.

ACOSTA: Right. If you don't want politics to be part of the court, don't engage in politics while sitting on the Supreme Court.

And this public --

(CROSSTALK)

TOOBIN: And, Jim, if I could just add.

ACOSTA: Go ahead.

TOOBIN: You know, the -- there's something called traditional philosophy. Amy Coney Barrett and her speech said, oh, judicial philosophy is totally different from politics.

No, it's not. Judicial philosophy is politics in judicial interpretation.

I don't criticize the justices for that. You know, Ruth Badder Ginsburg and Antonin Scalia had different approaches to the law. That doesn't make one right and one wrong.

But politics was intricately bound up in how they viewed the law. And it's true of the other nine as well.

ACOSTA: How much do you think is attributed to the majority's decision to let a Texas near ban on abortion take effect? This public display we're seeing now?

[16:45:07] TOOBIN: Well, you know, I think --

ACOSTA: It feels like Roe v. Wade is the whole ball game. I mean, it's just starting to feel that way.

TOOBIN: I agree with you.

Also, one of the things the justices expect is procedural regularity. They argue cases, they hear cases and write decisions.

What was so outrageous about what happened in the end of August with regard to the Texas abortion law is that, here, they decided this incredibly important issue.

Texas has effectively banned abortion. And contrary to Roe v. Wade and Casey, and all of the Supreme Court opinions. And the Supreme Court let that happen with a one paragraph brush away, you know, non- opinion.

That outraged the liberals in a way that an actual opinion would outrage them less. And they had every right to be outraged. Notwithstanding, what Justice Alito said at Notre Dame.

ACOSTA: Back in 2018, you said that Justice Kennedy's retirement meant Roe v. Wade was doom after Justice Kavanaugh was appointed a seat by Trump, and after the death of Ginsburg, Trump appointed Amy Coney Barrett.

We know what happened in Texas. What happens next? It just feels like this is all moving towards that movement.

TOOBIN: Well, you know, Donald Trump, whom you covered better and closer than anyone, said repeatedly, I am going to appoint justices to the Supreme Court who will vote to overturn Roe v. Wade.

What I think he meant by that was he was going to appoint justices to the Supreme Court who will vote to overturn Roe v. Wade. That's what they did in the dead of night at the end of August.

I think once they get this Mississippi case, which is a similar law virtually banning abortion in the state, that's what they're going to do in regular order.

But I think Roe v. Wade's days are numbered because Donald Trump had three appointments to the court and Samuel Alito and Thomas have said they want to see it overturned. Five is what you need in the Supreme Court.

ACOSTA: All this comes as the possible retirement of 83-year-old Justice Stephen Breyer looms.

I think we've heard Mitch McConnell say in recent days, if Republicans take back the Senate, they may just start blocking the appointment of a replacement then.

I mean, the rules have changed, Jeffrey. The rules for putting justices on the high court, informal as they may be, they're not etched in stone. Have completely changed in Washington.

So doesn't that make the case to Stephen Breyer that he has to step down sooner rather than later?

TOOBIN: Antonin Scalia died when there were 11 months left in Barack Obama's term. Mitch McConnell said, on the day of his death, there would be no vote to replace him and Merritt Garland's nomination ever got a hearing.

I don't have the slightest doubt that Mitch McConnell will do the same if he has the chance again.

Stephen Breyer seems to believe that the Supreme Court is somehow isolated from politics and that his departure is not involved in the political system. I find his position baffling.

But he's the one on the Supreme Court and he's the one who has to decide whether to retire or not.

ACOSTA: All right, Jeffrey Toobin, thanks so much. We appreciate it.

TOOBIN: All right, Jim.

ACOSTA: Coming up, do you know this man? The rock legend who was able to sneak under the radar.

[16:48:55]

Plus, the person behind the princess. The new CNN original series "DIANA" premiers next Sunday, October 10th, on CNN. Coming up.

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[16:53:47]

ACOSTA: This may be the adult version of "the dog ate my homework." A cameraman for the Australian Broadcasting Corporation was flying a drone over a lagoon when a crocodile leapt out of the water and crunched it.

You can't make this up. Look at it right there. Unbelievable stuff. We'll let him explain how it went down.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED CAMERAMAN, AUSTRALIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION (voice- over): I got the drone up over a small lagoon and all the crocs were skittish, but there was one really holding its own. I thought great, I'll just use this fellow. I can get some decent shots of him.

I lined the drone up and moved over the top of him. And as I was doing that, I looked up towards the lagoon and heard the great clamping noise of a crocodile's jaws coming together.

I looked down at my controller and, sure enough, it was a blank screen and no connection. I thought, oh, wow, that was a brand-new drone. This is going to be a really hard one to explain.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Yes, that story from Darwin, Australia. The drone was found a couple of weeks later on the banks of the lagoon covered in bite marks.

[16:55:02]

Now please allow me to introduce the man in this photo. Mick Jagger walks into a bar and no one notices. Yes, have you seen this one?

The Rolling Stones' front man tweeted this photo from the Thirsty Beaver Saloon in Charlotte, North Carolina, standing alone drinking a beer.

Somehow, people around him are blissfully unaware. The guys on the right, they can't get any satisfaction from this photo. I can't believe I read that.

According to the bar owner, they pay upwards of $400 a ticket to see the stones in concert and be as close to him as possible.

I am shattered that they had no idea they were next to Jagger the whole time. The Thirsty Beaver Saloon.

Coming up, the president urges his party to take a deep breath and come together over legislation that could make or break his political future.

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