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Biden Vows To Get It Done As Talks Drag On Massive Spending Bills; Interview With Rep. David Cicilline (D-RI); Interview With Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-CT); Kayakers Ambush Sen. Manchin's Boat; Joe Rogan Baselessly Claims Biden Didn't Get a COVID Booster; Judge Frees Britney Spears From Father's Longtime Control; Texas & DOJ Square Off In Court Over Restrictive Abortion Law; Book: Aide Played Broadway Tunes To Calm President Trump. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired October 02, 2021 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:00:32]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

President Biden's sweeping economic agenda clinging to life after tense talks on the Hill. Democrats giving themselves one more month to overcome deep divisions on two huge bills.

House progressives are holding up on, infrastructure because Senate Democrats are holding up the other, the larger social safety net package.

If it sounds complicated, this morning President Biden tried to simplify it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We could bring the moderates and progressives together very easily if we had two more votes -- two, two people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Those two people, of course, Senators Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema. They refused to sign off on Biden's reconciliation bill until the price tag comes down. Right now, it's $3.5 trillion over ten years.

And I'm joined now by vice chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, Rhode Island Congressman David Cicilline. Congressman, great to see you. Thanks so much for being with us. We appreciate it.

Your caucus chair, that the $3.5 trillion top line may have to be trimmed. I know members of Congress do not want to negotiate through the news media. We've been told that time again over the last several days.

But I think it's fair to say would you agree we are no longer at 3.5? We're no longer there?

REP. DAVID CICILLINE (D-RI): I think -- yes, I think that is fair to say. I mean what we want in the House -- and the House Democratic Caucus is really unified in this position. We want the president's entire agenda to be passed.

The president campaigned on the contents of the Build Back Better. This is his proposal to really transform the economy in this country to make it work for everyone.

It includes universal pre-k, affordable childcare, paid family and medical leave. Lower prescription drug prices. Lower healthcare costs. Free community costs.

I mean it's incredible investments in really rebuilding the middle class in this country. We want as much of the president's agenda to be enacted as possible and I think what the president said when he met with us is we need to know what the other folks are for.

And what I would say different is what do they think is not worth investing in that's contained in the president's proposal. Tell us what you would like to remove from it and we can have a negotiation, but we want to make sure as much of that agenda along with the bipartisan infrastructure bill passes. It will make sure the recovery reaches everyone.

It's fully inclusive and particularly communities of color and women who have been really ravaged by this economy that they get back into the workforce.

So we're going to get both things done and, you know, we just need to know from our colleagues, you know, what are the things that you don't want to include rather than talking about numbers. What are the things that you don't think are worthy of investment in Build Back Better?

ACOSTA: And what is your view on this? That the spending in those programs need to come down all together so you preserve all those programs or might something get pulled out and we'll deal with that at a later date?

CICILLINE: Well, I think you have to be careful. You can't pull -- there are some things that can be shortened for a few number of years depending on how long it takes to implement and what the impact will be to spending. We have to be open to that.

But you know, it's a little frustrating to be frank with you because my Republican colleagues who voted for $1.9 trillion tax cut that added to the debt that really didn't assist our economy in the long- term, is sort of like a sugar high, it was unpaid for.

What's important about Build Back Better is it's fully paid for by making sure the wealthiest people in this country and the most profitable corporations pay their fair share.

The Trump tax cut added $1.9 trillion to the debt. Build Back Better adds zero because it's fully paid for. (CROSSTALK)

ACOSTA: Do you wish the Democrats could just act like the Republicans -- Congressman do you wish the Democrats could just act like the Republicans and ram things through the way they did?

CICILLINE: No. I actually think, look, what people have watched over the last couple of weeks is, we should celebrate. This is how our democracy works. This is how the legislative process works.

Just a couple of years ago, we had a president who was inciting an insurrection against the government of the United States, pressuring folks to overturn election results.

We're in a very different place. We're debating and arguing and advocating about what should be the final contents of this bill. That's the legislative process. We should celebrate that. It's going to be transformative for the American people. And we want to make sure the president's vision that he campaigned on that's contained in Build Back better that's going to really benefit our constituents becomes a reality.

[17:04:50]

ACOSTA: And a short time ago, Senator Kyrsten Sinema, one of those two that President Biden mentioned a short while ago. She lashed out at the House over this infrastructure vote saying in a statement "The failure of the house to hold a vote on the infrastructure investment and jobs act is inexcusable and deeply disappointing for communities across our country."

Going on to say, "Denying Americans millions of good paying jobs, safer roads, cleaner water, more reliable electricity, better broadband only hurts every day families."

Doesn't she have a point there?

CICILLINE: Yes. Look, we are definitely going to pass the bipartisan infrastructure bill, but that's not enough. That's a very modest investment in rebuilding the infrastructure of our country. But if you create jobs where people don't have access to them because they don't have access to affordable childcare or they don't have access to universal pre-k or job training or housing, all those things that are in the Build Back Better plan.

We need to do both. The president met with us. He's the leader of our party. He's the leader of our country. and he said I need both of these things and the way that we're going to pass both is to do them together.

That has always been the plan. And so look, we should focus now on the -- not on the bipartisan infrastructure bill, that already has the support of everyone. That's going to pass.

Let's finalize the Build Back Better bill so that we can get that through the House and the Senate as well, and again really transform the lives of people we represent. This is the biggest investment in working families in my lifetime that's going to make such a difference and we've got to get both things done.

And when the president visited us, he said look, we don't have to do it in six hours, six days -- we need to get both done. It's going to take a little more time, but we're going to get it done and everyone in that process believes both things must happen and both things will happen.

ACOSTA: Does the president need to get more involved, more engaged? I know he's been burning up the phone lines and he's been having folks over to the White House. But he was over on the Hill right before it became apparent that this wasn't going to come together at the end of this week. Might that have been helpful had he done that more often and sooner?

CICILLINE: Look, no. The president --

(CROSSTALK)

ACOSTA: Maybe not with you -- maybe not with you but with some of your colleagues.

CICILLINE: I don't think so. The president and his team have been driving these negotiations from the beginning. As the president reminded us yesterday, this is his plan. He wrote this. These are his priorities he campaigned on. You know, universal pre-k and affordable childcare and lower prescription drug prices and more affordable housing and paid medical and family leave, adding to Medicare benefits.

These are his ideas. He wrote the bills. And so he's been very involved in the crafting of them. He's been very involved in persuading people that these things should happen and they should happen together.

So you know, the president will continue to be very involved and his team will continue be. But I think he came over yesterday just at the right time to say look, we all understand we have to get all this done. We will. We're going to need to take the time that's necessary to complete these negotiations.

But when we're done, what we pass will make a tremendous difference in the lives of working families in this country and it will be something we can all be incredibly proud of.

ACOSTA: All right. Congressman, thanks so much. We'll be watching. Appreciate you coming on.

CICILLINE: My pleasure.

ACOSTA: All right. And now to the Senate side of this debate, Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut joins me now.

Senator, great to hear you with us this evening. We just heard from your fellow Democrat from the House say that we're not longer at $3.5 trillion. Is that your understanding as well?

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): I continue to hope that we're going to have a major, big, bold investment, not only in the roads and bridges, but also in the people who use them. And that means making sure that people can get to work on those roads and bridges with childcare that they need to re-enter the workforce, both men and women. And of course, fill those jobs with the skills that they may lack right now, which means more education.

Of course, healthcare, climate change. And paying for all of them through taxes that make the corporations and the wealthiest in this country pay their fair share, which they do not do right now because a lot of them pay nothing in taxes.

So that kind of fairness paying for the programs, investing in human beings, there should be no surprises here because the president linked them and he said there were no arbitrary deadlines. And we need to take a little bit more time to make sure that we achieve this once in a generation opportunity.

It really is once in a generation that we have this kind of opportunity.

ACOSTA: And senator, I hate to ask a senator if one senator has too much power. But do you think your colleague Senators Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema have too much power?

And I ask that in all seriousness because quite honestly, Senator, you could have dug your heels in and said well, this package doesn't have this aspect in it and this package doesn't have that thing that I wanted in there and you didn't do that so no dice. I'm off to my boat and no dice.

[17:09:51]

ACOSTA: You didn't do that. Aren't some of your fellow Democrats a little peeved?

BLUMENTHAL: You know, we work together remarkably well. And I should just add on a very personal note, Jim, that I've been really impressed by how the president has led here.

He's been on the phone. He's had (INAUDIBLE). He's come to the Hill. He's met with all of my colleagues at one point or another. And maybe not personally but he's certainly made his views known from the very start.

So I think all of us in the Democratic Caucus have worked together. What has really surprised and appalled me to be very honest is how none of my Republican colleagues seem to be interested in investing in the human beings who are going to use those roads and bridges and ports and airports and broadband.

They have joined in the bipartisan investment in physical assets, but not in the human beings through education, healthcare, climate change, universal childcare and a fair tax program. ACOSTA: I want to turn to Facebook, this hugely important issue of

social media. As a parent, I agonize over this. And I'm sure there are so many out there who do. Newly-published internal documents reveal the negative impact of the company platforms have on teenagers, in some cases, linked to suicidal thoughts.

It's so horrible. And you grilled a top Facebook executive about these studies this week and I want to play a clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTIGONE DAVIS, DIRECTOR, GLOBAL HEAD OF SAFETY, FACEBOOK: I want to be clear that this research is not a bombshell. It's not causal research. It's in fact just --

BLUMENTHAL: Well, I beg to differ with you, Miss Davis. This research is a bombshell. It is powerful, gripping, riveting evidence that Facebook knows of the harmful effects of its site on children and that it has concealed those facts and findings.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Senator, on behalf of all exasperated parents out there, kids are hooked to all of this. What is the solution, do you think?

BLUMENTHAL: Jim, you should be appalled and aghast as a parent and you should be (AUDIO GAP) because Facebook not only knew of these harms, really serious, destructive consequences in online bullying, eating disorders, self-injury, even suicide. And they concealed them and maybe most egregiously, they profited from them purposely and relentlessly made money and exploited your children and all of America's children on Instagram and Facebook.

And what should be done because we no longer can trust Facebook is to hold them accountable through legislation like The Kids Act, which I have authored with my colleague Senator Markey, the Online Privacy Act. Other measures that will protect children. And we're talking her about 13 and 14-year-olds and younger who really have this harm inflicted on them.

And I will tell you on a personal note, I sued big tobacco as attorney general of Connecticut. I led the lawsuit against big tobacco and there's an eerie resemblance here in the documents disclosing the toxic effects and the profits made from them.

In the case of big tobacco, it was nicotine and smoking. Here, it is also as you've said quite correctly, the addictive effect. The perfect storm as one of the researchers said with this kind of online addiction.

And I'll just add one more point here. We're talking here not only about one study. We're talking about multiple studies. Not a single disgruntled Facebook employee, but numerous researchers who should be proud of their work, but the leadership's trying to suppress it.

ACOSTA: And I can't let you go without asking you about former President Trump has asked a federal judge to restore his Twitter account. Perhaps you've seen some of this today.

Of course, he's not on the platform right now because he incited an insurrection. But what goes through your mind when you hear that he would like to get back on and he is taking legal action to get back on?

[17:14:40]

BLUMENTHAL: I think there's no legal basis for it. But what I've heard from Americans and many in Connecticut (ph) that his being absent from Twitter has been such a relief and the kind of contamination that he's done in dragging America down to dark places on Twitter has been a disservice.

He absolutely has incited an insurrection and the investigation I'm going by the Congress I think will add weight and evidence to the case for his being off Twitter but also held accountable for what he did to incite the January 6th insurrection.

ACOSTA: All right, Senator Richard Blumenthal, we asked you a lot of questions. Thanks so much for being with us this afternoon. We appreciate it.

BLUMENTHAL: Thank you, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right.

Coming up next, he hails from a state that's effectively banned abortions, when it comes to vaccines though Senator Ted Cruz says he's my body, my choice. The hypocrisy, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:19:52]

ACOSTA: Some West Virginia protesters grabbed their paddles and made their way over to Senator Joe Manchin's boat to let him know they're not on board with how he's blocking President Biden's agenda.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Senator Manchin.

CROWD: Senator Manchin.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your constituents are here.

CROWD: Your constituents are here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your constituents are here from West Virginia.

CROWD: Your constituents are here from West Virginia.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will you please come talk to us?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What are you going to do for the poor in West Virginia?

SENATOR JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): We're working. We're going to be working everything we can to create you an opportunity.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And we need to tax the rich.

MANCHIN: Well, I agree that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Almost heaven, indeed. Joining me now -- editor at large for the "Daily Beast" Molly Jong-Fast and White House correspondent for Reuters Jeff Mason.

Thanks so much, guys, for being with me. Molly, the Democratic Party sure isn't the Love Boat these days.

MOLLY JONG-FAST, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "THE DAILY BEAST: I mean, there's a lot of conflict, but this is legislation. And you'll remember in the Trump administration every week was infrastructure week. And yet he never passed any infrastructure.

So I mean, it's complicated and there's a lot of moving parts but they're actually doing what we sent them there to do.

ACOSTA: It's sort of feeling like infrastructure week is every week now though as well and eventually it will have to stop being infrastructure week because they're going to have to vote on something eventually.

Jeff, Joe Manchin has said what his top line figure would be for this bill. One of the key holdouts, Kyrsten Sinema, the senator from Arizona, she has not made clear where she stands. That has progressives fuming. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): Senator Sinema is being treated like a head of state. I never requested or met with the president in the Oval Office. I meet with the staff. She meets with him like every other day and then she has a whole presidential delegation. Ricchetti (ph) and Susan Rice -- all go to her office.

REP. CORI BUSH (D-MO): Come to my district. Have Kyrsten Cinema come to my district and meet with my folks in St. Louis. Have her come and meet with those that sleep on the street.

She has her own story that I feel like she's forgotten.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What you say to progressives that are frustrated that they don't know where you are?

SENATOR KYRSTEN SINEMA (D-AZ): I'm in the Senate.

(END VIDEO CLIP) ACOSTA: Well actually this weekend, "The New York Times' is reporting she's back in Arizona holding a fund-raiser. Jeff, you were with the president today. You saw that reaction that he gave to the cameras where he talked about two people.

JEFF MASON, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, REUTERS: Yes.

ACOSTA: What are they thinking over at the White House? Do they know where Kyrsten Sinema stands?

MASON: Well, they have been very careful when they talk about Senator Sinema and they said that she's been negotiating in good faith and they're trying to negotiate in good faith back. I think they're also realizing that it's not going to help their cause. And it's not going to help hers if they start bad mouthing her in Congress, or in public.

But as those clips just showed, you know, there is some bad feeling in the Democratic Party, for sure. And the White House says it's not frustrated -- President Biden said this morning he's not frustrated.

ACOSTA: But I'm not in the White House anymore, Jeff.

MASON: But you know --

ACOSTA: I think I can hear a little grumbling. I think I hear just a little somewhere.

MASON: I mean, it's hard to believe there isn't some frustration on that side of Pennsylvania Avenue.

ACOSTA: Yes. And Molly, Senator Ted Cruz got a lot of attention this week getting to the COVID crisis in this country. Tweeting his solidarity with NBA players who don't want to get the vaccine. He even used the hashtag, "Your Body, Your Choice" even though he's from a stat e with the most restrictive abortion law in the country.

I guess this is trolling. This is what he does now. What is your reaction to this?

JONG-FAST: I think the lesson that Ted Cruz got from Trumpism is to be even worse and to be even more Ted Cruzy. And you'll remember that Al Franken called him a (INAUDIBLE). So I think he's really leaning into that role as just being a troll.

And I don't -- and I think you know, (INAUDIBLE) this crazy restrictive abortion ruling, you have women all over the country today marching in solidarity. You have a Supreme Court that's as unpopular as it's been since 2000 and you know, you have Ted Cruz, you know, teasing us about it.

So I think it's a really tough situation for a lot of women and I think Ted Cruz is just hoping to sort of like you know, continue in this Trumpy, trolling way.

ACOSTA: Yes. And Jeff, on this subject, podcaster Joe Rogan made this bizarre claim. He suggested that President Biden got a fake COVID booster shot on TV. Here was his rationale. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE ROGAN, RADIO HOST: You think he got a booster?

You think that was a real booster.

MIKE BAKER, FORMER CIA OFFICER: You mentioned that before we started talking and I hadn't thought about it before. But you know what, when I watched it on TV, when I watched the, you know, him getting his shot, his mask on, all I could think of was this is performance art.

So the next step of performance art would be like not giving them the booster, but just giving him a shot.

ROGAN: I think if they were going to give him a booster shot, the last thing they would do is give it to him live on television. What if he dies? What if he blacks out? What if he like gets -- faints like -- because people have had very bad reactions like in the moment for whatever reason.

BAKER: Right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[17:25:01]

ACOSTA: I mean Jeff, you cover the White House. I had covered the White House. The thought that, I mean, that they would give the president of the United States a fake booster.

I mean -- I hate bringing this stuff up, but Rogan has so many listeners out there that I think it's worth a fact check.

MASON: It is worth a fact check, but it's so obviously, it's almost kind of ridiculous to be talking about.

The fact is it was a real booster shot and also his logic is sort of strange. President Biden wants people to get booster shots. He's also in that age group where it's time for him to get a booster shot and so he got one. Of course he got one.

And he wants people to see that on live television and he wants people to see that he's ok and he was ok. This is a huge challenge that he's facing is to get people vaccinated.

Of course, that wasn't something that they would be faking on. And that's not what this White House does.

ACOSTA: And -- but this has been one of the problems, one of the challenges that the Biden administration has struggled with, Molly, throughout their time managing this pandemic. Getting on top of COVID disinformation. That kind of garbage that you just heard from Joe Rogan there.

It is so pernicious and we can write it off and say, oh, this is just some guy with a podcast and what's the big deal. I mean he's a comedian.

It's dangerous. It's just so dangerous.

JONG-FAST: It is dangerous. And Joe Rogan is not some guy -- he has millions and millions of rabid fans who listen to everything he says.

And you know, you'll remember, he is actually probably one of the leading sources of this kind of disinformation and he was a couple of weeks ago when he got COVID, he got the monoclonal antibodies but he also took the horse de-wormer that you can use for lice -- ivermectin.

And you know, he spread a lot of disinformation. And it's really tragic and we still have people in the south dying in large numbers because they refuse to take the vaccine. And you know, I think that it's because people like Joe Rogan see these anti-vaxxers as easy marks.

And he knows and they're sort of passionate and they're looking for a champion. And he knows it will help ratings.

But ultimately, it will kill people. I mean not getting vaccinated, you know, leads to higher levels of death with this virus and it's really tragic.

ACOSTA: It is. It's just so dangerous. And you just wish he would knock it off. It's not worth it. It's not worth the numbers, data, whatever the metrics that they get -- podcasters. It's just not worth it. Please stop.

All right. Molly Jong-Fast, Jeff Mason, thanks so much. We appreciate it.

Coming up, Britney Spears' father has been booted as her conservator, but the battle to have control of her life is far from over. We'll discuss what happens next.

Plus, an all new season of "THIS IS LIFE". Lisa Ling explores historical events that changed America but rarely found in history book.

Catch the season premiere of "THIS IS LIFE WITH LISA LING" Sunday, October 10th only on CNN.

[17:27:56]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:32:24]

ACOSTA: Britney Spears scored a major legal victory in her fight to regain control of her life, but her battle to end her 13-year conservatorship still faces some legal hurdles.

Joining us now, CNN senior legal analyst, Elie Honig, a former federal prosecutor, state prosecutor.

Elie, great to see you.

The Los Angeles judge suspended Britney's father's conservatorship and his control of her estate. He designated temporary replacement.

Fascinating developments in a case that a lot of people are following. What happens next?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Jim, so there's a court appearance on November 12th and that's where the judge will decide what happens next with the conservatorship.

What's really interesting here, the father is now taking the position that it should be ended all together, which is unusual. Why would he take that position?

The thing is, the person who's now replaced him is a CPA, certified public accountant. So the father might be afraid that the CPA is now going to have access to the books, papers and financials and there could be accountability coming.

ACOSTA: No question.

And does Jamie Spears face potential legal issues moving forward? That has been a key question in all of this.

HONIG: Yes, I think that's exactly it. First of all, if he was engaged, the father, in abuse or mismanagement or embezzlement, he could face civil charges, the estate or Britney could see him for money damages.

Also, there could be criminal damages if he was entangled in fraud, misrepresented the expenses, took money for himself.

Also there's this bizarre detail that the father put a recording device in Britney's bedroom. That could be a violation over the wiretapping statute.

You're not allowed to record conversation between two other people if neither of them know about it unless a judge has signed off.

There could be real consequences for the father.

ACOSTA: What are the big-picture lessons?

HONIG: Conservatorships are not necessarily evil. This case has given them a bad name. They were designed to protect the rights of people who are legitimately incapacitated.

But courts need to scrutinize carefully and make sure the interests of the people on the other end of these things are being taken care of.

ACOSTA: Forgive the sharp right turn, but let's talk about Texas.

Yesterday, the DOJ argued its motion to, I guess, seeking to block that state's restrictive abortion law. What do you make of the DOJ's argument here? HONIG: It's interesting.

(CROSSTALK)

HONIG: The one question that the judge asked DOJ yesterday is, what are you doing here? It's unusual for DOJ to be involved in this kind of case.

[17:35:00]

And the DOJ's answer was, first of all, this violates Roe v. Wade. And second, the supremacy clause. If there's a federal and state law that conflicts with it, the federal law has to win out.

On its face, it's a straightforward, strong argument. The question is: Where's the future of Roe v. Wade lie?

ACOSTA: Is the DOJ going to run with the procedural provisions of the Texas law? This part about private citizens being able to sue for money damages, so-called vigilante portion of the law.

HONIG: The judge hammered the Texas attorney on this. He said essentially, did you set it up this way with this bizarre system with private bounty hunters? Did you do it that way to make it harder for me, a judge, to do this?

The Texas lawyer didn't really have an answer. He said, well, Judge, it's not that unusual.

It is. Usually, when you have a law like this, it's to be enforced by a governor, an attorney general. That's who gets sued.

Here, this vigilante system has really complicated things and is designed to frustrate judicial review so the judge took notice of that.

ACOSTA: Thank you so much. We're going to be watching. Thanks again.

HONIG: Indeed. Thanks.

It was music that soothed a raging president. Coming up, what we're learning about Trump and a famous song from the musical, Cats."

Plus, reaction from one of the stars of the original Broadway production, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:41:11]

ACOSTA: Have you heard about the music man? A new book out. From Stephanie Grisham says when then-President Trump would fly into a rage, they would call in the hammer, known as the music man, to play him Broadway tunes in the hopes of calming him down.

That included this famous song from the show, "Cats." (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SINGING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: It is very soothing. I feel calm already.

We have a treat for you because, joining us, Betty Buckley, who played in the original Broadway production of "Cats."

It's such an honor to have you here. So wonderful to have you here. Thank you being with us.

I have to ask you, Betty, what was your reaction when you heard this bonkers story that they played your music to calm him down?

BETTY BUCKLEY, BROADWAY ACTOR & SINGER: Oh, my god. It's so nice to meet you, at least --

(CROSSTALK)

ACOSTA: Virtually.

BUCKLEY: Virtually. Thank you.

I was on a TV set in New Mexico doing a new series and I looked up I think it was Wednesday morning and I checked my phone and they were saying thank you for saving the world. And I was like, oh, my god.

Then I read about the book and I tweeted back that I was happy to do my part.

He had used "Memory" at his rallies for the past many years and that was when people would send me videos of him at his rallies and playing the background and I was horrified.

And I wrote Andrew Lloyd Webber -- and the Beatles and Foo Fighters and Elton John and Springsteen and Rolling Stones. We all requested through the cease and desist that he stop because it was such an aberration for that memory.

The anthem from "Cats" to be associated with his politics, with his rallies.

And so he ignored the ruling of the courts, as he always does, and just persisted on.

And so when this book came out and I understood that they were literally using the song to calm him down in his fits of rage, somehow, it all made sense to me. I was like, oh, man.

You know, the guy is so rooted. His soul is so damaged. And I feel that on some level, this beautiful lyric resonates with what remains of the window into whatever soul he might actually have. He has this insatiable need to be loved because daddy just didn't, you

know, and neither did mommy. So it would seem. So he's really mad at the world about that.

But she's a character that is about longing and the need to be touched and the need to connect. So I guess underneath it all, that's what's happening here.

[17:45:03]

ACOSTA: I was going to say it sounds like you've spent a fair amount of time processing I guess the psychology of why he would be so soothed by this.

Getting back to something you said earlier, somebody tweeted, "Betty, you may have prevented nuclear war."

I hope it wasn't that close, but my goodness, you just never know.

BUCKLEY: Well, as I said, I'm willing to do my part. You know. If that's what it takes.

I just, I think it would be great if the government came up with some kind of Broadway commission to send Broadway singers, you know, who had volunteered to do so, to the hot spots of the world including --

(CROSSTALK)

He's on to something. Maybe we're all on to something here. Inadvertently.

I want to ask you about the impact that the pandemic has had on Broadway. I love Broadway. We all love Broadway. We want to get back to normal as quickly as possible.

It's starting to do that. Just reopened after a year and a half and already breakthrough cases have forced Alladin to cancel shows.

What are your thoughts?

BUCKLEY: I was recently in New York and went to see this brilliant play and I was so touched to be back in the theatre. I was literally weeping sitting in my seat.

And everyone had on masks and we had no you know, present our cards for vaccination, that we had been vaccinated, to be there.

Everyone was as a community, was cooperative in trying to be present and be a part of this thing that we love so much, Broadway theatre, and theatre in general.

And you know, it was just so heartwarming and inspiring and joyous to be back in the theatre .

And so I've been following with great anticipation and joy the reopening o reopening of Broadway because Disney says they're the happiest place in the world, but for me, Broadway is the happiest place in the world, so I'm so delighted we're back.

I think this momentary thing with the pause in Alladin, they're taking care of it. They're going to reopen at later date than planned.

But you know, I was just on this TV set in New Mexico and the COVID rules were very you know, everyone had their masks on. Everyone kept a distance. They tested us every day. It was really great.

And when a community cooperates, we can solve this thing.

ACOSTA: The former president wasn't often the Bushes listening in. Just to get one last, one last dose from the great Betty Buckley.

BUCKLEY: Thank you.

ACOSTA: Thank you so much for being with us. We appreciate it. Great to see you.

BUCKLEY: Thank you for inviting me, Jim. I'm such a fan. Thank you.

ACOSTA: Oh, thanks so much. We appreciate you coming on. Take care.

And we'll be right back.

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[17:52:46]

ACOSTA: If you're a fan of '90s hip-hop, stay tuned. This year's halftime Super Bowl show is bringing together five legendary artists.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SINGING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: It's at Sofi Stadium in Inglewood, California. Collectively, they have been awarded 42 Grammys and, between them, have 22 number- one Billboard albums.

As CNN marks it's fifteenth anniversary, Maria Rose Belding explains how being named a top-10 hero in 2018 helped her get food to those who need it most.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARIA ROSE BELDING, CNN HERO: I was 14 when I started building MEANS. I was 23 when we were honored and to get this award.

And to have our work shown in its full breadth was just so incredible. And it really changed the narrative that we've been up against that we were just kids. This was just a club.

But no, our entire hearts and souls were poured into what we were doing at MEANS and we were having this large-scale national impact. Since then, our budget has more than quadrupled. We were able to,

thanks to a pretty great grant, invest more than $4.1 million in small restaurants across nine U.S. cities.

And I'm so grateful for all the opportunities that heroes opened up for all of us. So thank you and congratulations on 15 incredible years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Fifteen incredible years of everyday people making world a better place. Go to CNNheroes.com heroes.com for more information.

That's the news. Reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. I'll see you back here tomorrow at 4:00 p.m. Eastern.

[17:54:58]

Pamela Brown takes over the CNN NEWSROOM, live, after a quick break.

Make some memories tonight and have a good night.

COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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[18:00:08]

UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Conscious optimism, the worst of the Delta outbreak is behind us.