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Around 1,200 Gallons of Oily Water Mixture Have Been Recovered in California Beach; Interview with Representative Michelle Steel (R- CA) about California Oil Spill; Facebook Whistleblower Says Social Media Harms Teenage Girls; Interview with Representative Frederica Wilson (D-FL) about Spending Bill Negotiations; New Pill Cuts Risk of COVID Hospitalization, Death by Half; Grieving Family Begs Pregnant Women to Get Vaccinated; Judge Frees Britney Spears from Father's Longtime Control. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired October 03, 2021 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[20:00:02]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: 3,000 barrels of oil spilled off Huntington Beach, California.

MAYOR KIM CARR, HUNTINGTON BEACH, CALIFORNIA: In the coming days and weeks, we challenge the responsible parties to do everything possible to rectify this environmental catastrophe.

CHEN: An ecological disaster unfolding as dead birds, fish and oil begin washing up.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Democrats turned their focus from intra-party divisions to measures that could make or break the economy.

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): The Republican leader in the Senate Mitch McConnell is playing games with a loaded weapon here.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Delta cases declining, and now a new pill to treat COVID on the horizon.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISER TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: We certainly are turning the corner on this particular surge.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM on this Sunday.

We begin with a developing story out of Southern California where a major oil spill is being called a potential ecological disaster. The leak is about three miles right off the coast of Huntington Beach and it sent thousands of barrels of oil into the Pacific Ocean, and the shoreline in Orange County is already being littered with dead fish and birds.

Natasha Chen is following the story for us. Natasha, I hear there's already been some progress out there today. Tell us about it.

CHEN: Yes, Pamela, there is a little bit progress. More than 1200 gallons of oily water mixture have been recovered as of this afternoon. 3700 feet of boom deployed out there. But when you think about more than 1200 gallons that have been picked up, that's nowhere near the total potential spill amount of 126,000 gallons of oil. And right now, it's still unclear exactly how this happened, when the leak exactly started.

People in the area reported that they could smell something, maybe Friday evening, but officials say they got a report, definitive report Saturday around 9:00 a.m. local time that there was a spill. So there is a lot going on right now to first also while they're cleaning up also to investigate how this happened. So there are divers in place this evening at the potential source site going under water.

This is about 80 feet under water where the pipeline is to see how this leak maybe happened. NTSB is sending out a couple of investigators as well to help out and then at the same time, you've got that cleanup effort that we were talking about. We watched as these boats have gone up and down the coast today dragging a boom trying to collect that oil. As far as the animals go that you mentioned, right now officially we're told there is one oiled ruddy duck that's receiving some veterinary care.

There have been reports of other animals washing up with oil on them. Those are being investigated right now. Other than that, it's been a lot of people very annoyed at the tar balls that they've picked up on the bottom of their feet today on this beach. That they've spent some time trying to scrub that off behind us at those washing stations. And, you know, the health officials here say that that's a problem.

This could be a skin irritant to not try to get in contact with it, stay out of the water. In fact, even the evaporated products from this oil spill could cause some irritation for ear, nose and throat potentially even dizziness and vomiting -- Pamela.

BROWN: Just think about those animals. I'm such a softy with animals and just to think about that is just awful.

Natasha Chen, thank you so much.

And joining me now on the phone, Congresswoman Michelle Steel. She's a California Republican whose district includes Huntington Beach.

Congresswoman, thanks for joining us. I want to just get right to it. You sent a letter to President Biden requesting a major disaster declaration for Orange County. What can the federal government do to support efforts right now?

REP. MICHELLE STEEL (R-CA): You know what? First thing in the morning I did -- was send a letter to President Biden requesting to sign this major disaster declaration. This means that additional federal assistance available for the state and local agents there are working to respond to this disaster. This is really serious disaster. It's not just human beings but ecological problem, too, because we have a lot of conservancies in my district.

Like a bird sanctuary, Bolsa Chica Conservancy, and we already heard that one duck, but you know, while we hear more stories about that, so we have to really help to clean up but not just the effort, all the individuals or households that they've been impacted by this disaster, and at the same time, we have the largest air show this weekend. But we have to shut down today.

Businesses have been impacted, too, so they can get help from the federal government. So we are just pushing actually asking and pressuring President Biden to sign it so we can get them help.

BROWN: Have you heard anything from the White House and other federal officials?

[20:05:01]

STEEL: You know what? White House Public Liaison Office said they received the letter and they're reviewing it at this point.

BROWN: For people watching this, who may not have ever been to Huntington Beach or just tuning into this and seeing this unfold, why is this so heartbreaking? Why is this such a big deal?

STEEL: This is really a big deal because it's going to hurt people and, you know, as I said, we have to protect wildlife and we have a lot of wildlife living on these beaches. It's not just Huntington Beach, but (INAUDIBLE) Beach and Newport Beach, that's all included. So it's very, very important. Not only that last weekend we just had the U.S. Open surfing competition. This is a beautiful beaches and, you know, when people visit, especially air show, yesterday we kind of like assume we have more than a million people and 500 visitors actually from our side of California they came. So this is beautiful place and we cannot really hurt the natural, you know, area.

BROWN: Do you know the extent of the environmental damage at this point?

STEEL: As of right now that we are actually adjusting. That's the reason that I went out this morning and I joined the Coast Guard to take a tour of the, you know, spill damage and how they are cleaning up. So I saw the oil platform, you know, where it started, and it's about seven miles away from the beaches, and you know, I saw the boats are trying boom to stop oil spreading and we are doing whatever we can and we have a lot of volunteers.

I just had the Zoom meeting with all these surfers and, you know, conservancy people to local, you know, government leaders and they all want to volunteer. And we are doing whatever we can. I mean, people all want to help and, you know, local leaders, that, you know, they are working really hard but I just want to say thanks to the Coast Guard that they are really working hard around the clock, you know, to contain the spill. So we are working really hard right now.

BROWN: Well, thank you so much, Congresswoman Michelle Steel. We appreciate your time. STEEL: Thank you.

BROWN: And turning now to breaking news from Central Florida. A short time ago we heard from the family of Miya Marcano. She's the 19-year- old Orange County woman whose been missing nearly 10 days and police believe a body found this weekend is her. The family attorney is placing the blame on the apartment complex where Miya lived, worked and was last seen September 24th. Authorities believe a maintenance worker at that same apartment complex accessed Mia's apartment without her permission using a master key.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DARYL WASHINGTON, MARCANO FAMILY ATTORNEY: This was a preventable death and this is what makes it very difficult for the family. We've had the opportunity to talk to young girls who are college students. Young girls who are tenants at the Arden Villas Apartment and people are living in fear because what happened to Miya could have easily happened to one of them.

CAILI SUE, MIYA MARCANO'S COUSIN: If we could make the place where she lived safe for everyone, that would be the end goal. There are so many students and other tenants that came forward and shared their stories about maybe their interactions with maintenance workers that made them feel uncomfortable or just in general not feeling safe anymore. You shouldn't feel unsafe where you live. That's supposed to be everyone's safe space. When you don't feel safe somewhere, you're supposed to be able to say I'm going to go home, wrap myself up in a blanket and feel OK. And that's just not acceptable.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her life cannot be taken in vain. One thing Miya taught us is to just love everybody.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: It's just horrible. Terrifying and that maintenance worker who was a person of interest was found dead from apparent suicide a few days after Miya's disappearance. Her family says they are planning to create a foundation in Miya's honor.

Well, it is a busy Sunday night here in the CNN NEWSROOM. I know there is this big game involving Tom Brady tonight but there's other news, too. Other stuff going on. A whistleblower tonight claiming that Facebook played a part in the Capitol riot. Plus, she shares her concerns about the anger she claims the platform inspires. We're going to play that interview for you up next and we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:13:38]

BROWN: A Facebook whistleblower is accusing the company of contributing to the January 6th attack on the Capitol. The former employee of the social media giant appeared on CBS' "60 Minutes" minutes ago ahead of her scheduled appearance in a Senate hearing on Tuesday. She says thousands of pages of internal company research that she turned over to the feds prove that Facebook is falsely claiming it's effective in its efforts to stop hate and misinformation, and that teenage girl are also victims, casualties of the company's corporate greed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT PELLEY, HOST, CBS' "60 MINUTES": Evidence of harm she says extends to Facebook's Instagram app.

One of the Facebook internal studies that you found talks about how Instagram harms teenage girls.

FRANCES HAUGEN, FACEBOOK WHISTLEBLOWER: Oh, yes.

PELLEY: One study says 13.5 percent of teen girls say Instagram makes thoughts of suicide worse. 17 percent of teen girls say Instagram makes eating disorders worse.

HAUGEN: And what's super tragic is fakebook's own research says as these young women begin to consume this eating disorder content, they get more and more depressed. It actually makes them use the app more, and so they end up in this feedback cycle where they hate their bodies more and more. Facebook's own research says it is not just that Instagram is dangerous for teenagers, that it harms teenagers, is that it is distinctly worse than other forms of social media.

[20:15:12]

PELLEY: Facebook said just last week it would postpone plans to create an Instagram for younger children. Last month, Haugen's lawyers filed at least eight complaints with the Securities and Exchange Commission which enforces the law in financial markets. The complaints compare the internal research with the company's public face often that of CEO Mark Zuckerberg here testifying remotely to Congress last March.

MARK ZUCKERBERG, FACEBOOK CEO: We removed content that could lead to imminent real-world harm. We built an unprecedented third-party fact checking program. The system isn't perfect but it's the best approach that we found to address misinformation in line with our country's value.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: CNN chief media correspondent Brian Stelter joins me now. He's also host of "RELIABLE SOURCES."

Brian, what else did she have to say?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Well, on the January 6th front, she talked about the riot and how it was organized partly on Facebook. She also cited conflicts elsewhere in the world. She said the version of Facebook that exists today is tearing our societies apart and causing ethnic violence around the world. She said Myanmar is an example.

Here's what she had to say about Facebook's algorithm being at the center of these problems.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HAUGEN: One of the consequences of how Facebook is picking out that content today is it is optimizing for content that gets engagement, a reaction, but its own research is showing that content that is hateful, that is divisive, that is polarizing, it's easier to inspire people to anger than it is to other emotions.

PELLEY: Misinformation, angry content.

HAUGEN: Yes.

PELLEY: Is enticing to people and keep --

HAUGEN: Very enticing.

PELLEY: Keeps them on the platform.

HAUGEN: Yes. Facebook has realized that if they change the algorithm to be safer, people will spend less time on the site. They'll click on less ads. They'll make less money.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

STELTER: So she is saying that Facebook time and time again chooses profits over safety. She is not the first person to blow the whistle from inside Facebook. Other former staffers have also called out the company but this is coming from inside the house in a unique way. In fact, the whistleblower says her lawyers have filed eight different complains with the SEC in the past month. The SEC of course the government agency that is charged with regulating the financial world and making sure publicly traded companies don't violate the law.

Her lawyers are alleging Facebook does violate the law because what it says in public is contradicted by this private internal research, and that's one of the reasons why she leaked this research to the "Wall Street Journal" and now she is going public in the most public of ways, Pamela, on one of the biggest shows on television trying to call out Facebook.

BROWN: And of course, Facebook tried to get ahead of this. A top executive appeared with you on "RELIABLE SOURCES." What more do we expect to hear from Facebook and what more do we know about her role at Facebook? Why she would be someone of credibility to speak about this?

STELTER: Yes, she was a project manager on one of the teams that was trying to combat misinformation and she says the more time she spent inside the company, the more concerned she became. Now Facebook of course has tens of thousands of employees and the company's argument kind of goes like this. Yes, you know, we're not perfect. No social media platform is perfect but we are trying our best to police the platform and take down hate speech, to take down misinformation.

That's the company's claim but time and time again we see they do not live up to those expectations and those promises. I spoke with Nick Clegg earlier as you mentioned, one of the top executives of Facebook. He was trying to issue a prebuttal to "60 Minutes." He talked about the issue regarding January 6th saying the argument that Facebook is responsible for the riot is bogus. Here's a part of what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICK CLEGG, VP FOR GLOBAL AFFAIRS, FACEBOOK: I think that the assertion is that January 6th can be explained because of social media. I just think that's ludicrous. The responsibility for the violence of January 6th, the insurrection on that day lies squarely with the people who inflicted the violence and those who encouraged them including then President Trump and candidly many other people elsewhere in the media who are encouraging the assertion that the election was stolen.

And look, I think this -- I think it gives people false comfort to assume that there must be a technological or a technical explanation for the issues of political polarization in the United States.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

STELTER: Sure, it's absolutely complicated but Facebook often is an accelerant pouring fuel on the raging fire. When it comes to something like Instagram for teen girls the way that Instagram warps people's brains. Clegg tried to compare it to women's magazines, saying, you know, girls just look at women's magazines and feel bad about their bodies that way.

[20:20:04]

The difference is that Instagram and Facebook and these platforms are addictive substances in the way that a magazine never ever could be. That addictive quality is one of the reasons why this whistleblower is speaking out.

BROWN: Yes. And those magazines don't have algorithms to give you more and more content of the thing that you're looking on, and that is a big difference.

All right, Brian Stelter, thank you so much for bringing us that reporting.

Well, President Biden hits the road this week to promote his agenda as Democrats grapple with what they may need to cut to get it to a vote. A key progressive member of Congress, Florida's Frederica Wilson, joins me next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:25:12]

BROWN: Well, the Biden agenda is hanging in the balance (INAUDIBLE) the Democrats have a serious numbers problem. After a week of public negotiations, there is still a huge gap, $2 trillion gap that is, between what progressives want and what moderates are willing to spend they say on a massive bill full of Democratic priorities. Now even a meeting with President Biden on Capitol Hill Friday couldn't close the deal.

So now the question is, what can? What's going to happen? Joining me now to discuss is Democratic Congresswoman Frederica Wilson of Florida. She is a member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus.

Congresswoman, great to see you.

REP. FREDERICA WILSON (D-FL): Good to see you, Pamela. Thanks for inviting me.

BROWN: So moderate Senator Joe Manchin has proposed this $1.5 trillion for this spending bill. If all of your priorities are included, would you support that? If not, what would you support?

WILSON: Well, I don't want to give a number. I think we're in a good place now. I think that everyone is at the table so that puts us in a good place. We passed the extension to the road transportation bill and for 30 days highway extension so we have a good chunk of time to work at that table where we all have a seat. So let's see what happens when we put our priorities in and when we look at maybe cutting the time in half and see what numbers we come up with. I couldn't even guess at this point.

BROWN: So Speaker Pelosi now says she wants to see infrastructure passed by October 31st. Obviously progressives want the two bills tied together but there is still a lot of work to be done on that larger spending bill. Do you think that date, that deadline is realistic?

WILSON: Well, I think it's kind of realistic because that's when the extension runs out for the surface transportation bill that we passed Friday night. So when that ends we have to pass something to continue it and everything is in that transportation bill. So that's why she said that. We might -- it all depends because I can't predict. This is a very fluid situation so we might have to pass another extension of the surface transportation bill.

We'll just have to play it by ear because I am hopeful now that everyone is talking to each other and we have to remember that we are Democrats, and I want to tell you this, Pamela. This -- I have been legislating for 30 years. This is the first time I have ever served in the majority. So we are in control of the House, the Senate and the White House, and we cannot mess up this opportunity.

When the Republicans were in control of the House, the Senate and the White House, the only thing they did was give tax breaks to the very wealthiest people and corporations on the backs of the middle class. So that now that we are in control, we have to keep in mind that we have to legislate and pass our values as Democrats and that's for the people.

BROWN: But this is about -- this isn't about --

WILSON: Build Back Better for the president. BROWN: This is not about what the Republicans did in the past. This is

about Democrats now when you said you're hopeful now because finally everyone is talking, we have everyone at the table. But given the fact that the Democrats do have the majority, why wasn't that happening before? Why did it take this messiness this past week to get everyone talking and at the table?

WILSON: Well, I think, you know, this is how you legislate. This happens all the time. You have people with different sets of values. You have people from different parts of the country. Everyone is trying to come together to a resolution to serve their purpose, their constituents. So it takes time and any time you're passing huge legislation like Build Back Better, President Biden's agenda, this is monumental. So it takes time. It's going to take back and forth.

[20:30:02]

And we're prepared. We're legislators, we're Democrats, we're accustomed to working hard and we're going to get it done.

BROWN: All right.

WILSON: And it looks like we might be getting it done by ourselves because I don't know of any Republicans who so far has said they want to join us.

BROWN: On the larger spending bill. All right, Congresswoman Frederica Wilson of Florida, thank you so much for coming on the show. We appreciate your time tonight.

WILSON: Thank you.

BROWN: And coming up, some encouraging news when it comes to containing the coronavirus pandemic. Why Dr. Fauci believes we may finally be turning a corner on the Delta variant.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:35:18]

BROWN: Well, tonight, a small by rising tide of optimism in the nation's battle against COVID-19. For the first time in three months, Americans are seeing a notable decline in new infections and hospitalizations. And that suggests that new deaths will also begin to decline.

The U.S. is still averaging almost 1900 COVID deaths every day and earlier today Dr. Anthony Fauci says the nation appears to be turning the corner but only on this particular surge. And he welcomed the announcement of a new antiviral pill that may reduce the risk of hospitalization and death by 50 percent for COVID patients. But he says the key is staying healthy by getting fully vaccinated.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISER TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: It is never OK to get infected. You know, you heard the numbers. It decreased the risk of this pill did of hospitalizations and death by 50 percent. You know the way to decrease the risk by 100 percent? Don't get infected in the first place.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Earlier today I talked to Dr. Peter Hotez about these new developments beginning with Merck's new antiviral drug.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. PETER HOTEZ, PROFESSOR AND DEAN OF TROPICAL MEDICINE, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: It does look pretty exciting but I do have to temper it a little bit that it is a relatively small study. It was 775 patients who were randomized either to the placebo, to the control or to getting the pill. And I think for me the most impressive part is what Tony Fauci, Dr. Fauci points out, that there were eight deaths in the control and none in the treated group, but it's still a relatively small study.

I think Merck and company will apply for Emergency Use Authorization. The thing that that gets me equally excited, though, is the fact that it makes sense, unlike Ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine where there's no reason to think that that's going to have any impact. This was specifically developed as an antiviral drug against influenza and specifically to target RNA viruses like the COVID-19 virus, the SARS-2 coronavirus infections.

So when you pull all that information together, it looks pretty promising for individuals who either have breakthrough infection or for some reason didn't get vaccinated. It will have some impact at mitigating the disease. But it's really important to point out this is not a substitute for getting vaccinated. This is not nearly as effective as getting vaccinated to prevent you from getting ill in the first place.

And what I worry about is that people will think they're off the hook now for getting vaccinated, and this could be Ivermectin version 2.0, and we certainly don't want that to happen.

BROWN: No, we certainly don't. Do you agree with Dr. Fauci that we have turned the corner on this particular surge?

HOTEZ: Well, yes, but with an asterisk. And the asterisk is if you remember this time last year, we were also turning the corner on our second wave across the south in the summer, and then we saw the same thing again happen, another surge in the south in the summer, but then we saw the worst of all, that terrible fall surge that began around Halloween and then really accelerated into the winter months.

So there are signs of trouble. We're seeing a lot of hospitalizations up in northern Minnesota, Wisconsin, across into North Dakota just like we did last fall. And remember, we still only have 56 percent of the U.S. population fully vaccinated, so there is a lot of warm water for this hurricane to pass over in terms of unvaccinated individuals, and that's what worries me, that we still have to really push hard to get the rest of the country vaccinated.

BROWN: I interviewed Dr. Scott Gottlieb, the former FDA commissioner, last weekend, and he said, he projected that by Thanksgiving we would be through the worst of the Delta variant. Do you agree with that, and do you think that once we get through the Delta variant that that's going to be the worst we see, the worst variant we see, and that it's going to get better from there with the assumption that you have a certain amount of people vaccinated in the country and a certain amount of people infected?

HOTEZ: Well, you know, nobody would be happier than I would be if Dr. Gottlieb is right, but I'm not as confident. And here's why. You know, I see the glass as half empty that we only have half the country fully vaccinated. There are still a lot of unvaccinated individuals. I'm watching what's happening in the northern border of the country along Canada, and I am worried about another big, big fall surge.

I think there is just too many people unvaccinated in this country to feel at all comfortable. So now is to push, now --

[20:40:03]

BROWN: But what about the previous infection helping with this? I mean, because that is still something that is still brought up. I hear it a lot from people. You can't ignore those with previous infections. How do you factor them into the equation?

HOTEZ: Well, here's what I think about that. You know, if you look at people with previous infection, some of them have pretty strong, durable immunity, but large numbers do not. If you look at the early virus neutralizing antibodies among those people infected and recovered, you know, some look really great. Others barely respond at all and are highly susceptible to reinfections.

So I wouldn't count on that. And here's what we do know. That if you are infected and recovered, and then you get vaccinated, then you get a big boost in your virus neutralizing antibodies and you even get what's called epitope broadening where you're actually really resilient against the variants. So that's the message we have to get out. If you've been infected and recovered, it's sort of a roll of the dice. You don't really know if you're protected against the Delta surge, and getting vaccinated will certainly guarantee that.

BROWN: Just to simplify that even more, how do you compare vaccine immunity to previous infection immunity?

HOTEZ: I think being vaccinated is a much safer bet because we know that people who received two doses of either the MRNA vaccines now up to three doses will have really high levels of virus neutralizing antibody and you're protected, versus if you're infected and recovered, as I say, it's a roll of the dice.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Dr. Hotez went on to day that there is no blood test or any other method to determine who would get a big immune boost from infection and who wouldn't.

And in Kansas City, Missouri, a grieving family is issuing a desperate plea to pregnant women tonight. Follow the science and get vaccinated. Two months ago yesterday, they lost 24-year-old Braxten Goodwin. Braxten was worried the vaccine would harm her baby. She got COVID in her third trimester, was hospitalized and died two weeks after delivering her son. She never got the chance to hold him.

Braxten's grandmother Pamela Goodwin joins me now.

Pamela, this is just so difficult. Our hearts go out to your family. It's just heartbreaking. First off, tell us about Braxten. What was she like?

PAMELA GOODWIN, UNVACCINATED GRANDDAUGHTER DIED OF COVID: Thank you, Pamela. Braxten was a resilient young lady. She was energetic. She loved life. She loved her family. She loved her children, and the one reason why she did not get vaccinated is because her doctor hadn't given her the go ahead to do the vaccination because of her pregnancy. So she didn't want to do anything that would harm her baby or cause any type of complications during her pregnancy.

But I mean, Braxten loves everything. She loved people. She loved basketball. She was an avid basketball player. Her favorite was Kobe Bryant. I want to put that out there. She loved Kobe Bryant. Her children meant her world. They were her world. So as you forestated about our family, we're so devastated. This has been some of the hardest times of our lives is losing Braxten.

BROWN: I just imagine. It's worth noting the CDC didn't declare the vaccine was safe for pregnant women until early August, just over a week after Braxten died. That was the clearance that she had been waiting for. Does that just only add to your family's heartbreak?

GOODWIN: Yes. Yes. It did. We were just -- I don't even think there are words that are adequate to express how we really do feel and I'm so thankful that we're able to get this message out to other women that are pregnant to please talk to your doctors and seek advice and get vaccinated.

BROWN: I guess, you know, someone listening to this segment might think well, she talked to her doctor and the doctor advised against it. Can you just walk us through kind of what happened and what the journey was like for her during her pregnancy and then sadly at the end?

GOODWIN: Well, the last time I actually saw Braxten and had an opportunity to talk with her and share with her was Fourth of July at our family gathering at our house, and I had talked to her and mentioned about the vaccine and she said Mama, which she affectionately called me, she said my doctor hasn't given me the OK yet to get the vaccine.

[20:45:07]

And I told her, I said, well, you stay on your doctor and make sure and between the Fourth of July and a few days later, she took ill at work and they sent her home, and she decided to go get tested, and found out she tested positive for COVID. And she had gone to the hospital maybe a few days after that and they sent her back home. She was taking medication and all. I kept in contact with her through text message because she said it was a little hard for her to breathe and do a lot of talking, which I understood that, so she decided to go back to the hospital on July the 17th because she was having a little trouble breathing and she was having pain in her stomach area.

And we all knew it wasn't quite time for the baby to be delivered. She was about six months at the time. And she went to the hospital on the 17th. My great grandson Levite was born on the 18th and he was rushed directly into intensive care for infants and Braxten never got the opportunity to even hold Levite. She never got a chance to kiss him. She never got a chance to talk to him. She never got an opportunity to do any of that. And Levite had the COVID, as well. Braxten progressively grew worse after about maybe four or five days after delivering Levite and she was placed on a ventilator and as she was placed on a ventilator, the last words that we spoke with each other were, I love you, Mama. I love you Braxten, and the things she used to tell her mother all the time, I love you more. They used to have a thing where they say I love you more.

But after that, we weren't able to talk or communicate with Braxten any longer. Levite spent about three weeks in the Children's Mercy Hospital and he was able to come home but we lost Braxten on August the 2nd.

BROWN: And he's doing OK now, right? Just want to make sure.

GOODWIN: He's doing well. He's doing well. And he's gained quite a bit of weight. He's just fat and chubby and happy, and she has a daughter Nova who will be 2 years old on the 10th of this month. So we're looking forward to celebrating her birthday, but no holiday, no birthday, no family gathering is complete now without Braxten.

BROWN: Yes, without their sweet mother.

Well, Pamela Goodwin, thank you again for sharing Braxten's story. We really appreciate it and I know you're doing this also because you want to get the message out for pregnant women to get vaccinated at a time when according to the CDC only 31 percent of pregnant women are vaccinated. Thank you so much, Pamela. And we'll be right back.

GOODWIN: Thank you, Pam. Thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:52:44]

BROWN: Britney Spears scored a major legal victory this week. A Los Angeles judge suspended the pop star's father Jamie from the conservatorship that has controlled her life for 13 years. But her fight for freedom still faces some major legal hurdles.

Joining me now to discuss is Britney's former attorney, Adam Streisand.

Adam, nice to see you again. I know you've been on the show before to talk about this. First off, give us your reaction to what happened on Thursday and then what happens next.

ADAM STREISAND, BRITNEY SPEARS' FORMER ATTORNEY: It's good to be with you. I hope you're feeling better.

BROWN: Thank you.

STREISAND: Very interesting situation. You know, everybody expected that Britney and Britney's new lawyer would want to terminate the conservatorship. But all of a sudden it was Jamie Spears who were saying, you want to terminate the conservatorship right away, and it was Britney's lawyer saying, whoa, hold on just a minute. Don't terminate it so fast. And why would he do that? Why would he want the current conservatorship to continue?

And the answer is, and I haven't heard anybody talking about this, maybe because it's a really esoteric part of California law that's very interesting. You know there is an attorney-client privilege. Everybody knows that. Whatever you say to your attorney is privileged, it's confidential, nobody can know what it is that you're talking about with your attorney but there is a different rule if you're a conservator because the conservator's attorneys are getting paid by the conservatorship, the estate, they're getting paid by Britney, right?

Jamie Spears' lawyers are getting paid by Britney. So the attorney- client privilege belongs to the Office of the Conservator, and if you have a new conservator, that person has the right to see everything that was said between Jamie and his lawyers. And that's a bombshell. And so Britney's lawyer wants to investigate Jamie and he wants the conservatorship to be in existence so that the new conservator will be able to get all of the communications, open up the tent, and see what was going on behind closed doors and in secret.

BROWN: That's so fascinating when you lay it out that way because a lot of people I know were wondering, why, why are they so intent on terminating the conservatorship rather than just suspending it.

[20:55:02]

And of course, that's not the explanation that they gave but what do you think the court will do? Do you think the court will ultimately terminate the conservatorship? What do you think will happen?

STREISAND: I think there is no question that the conservatorship is going to get terminated, the question is when? And also, remember, Pamela, there are two separate conservatorships. There are two separate conservators. There is a conservatorship over her person and there's a conservatorship over her estate. The conservatorship over her person, that's appropriate for somebody --

BROWN: OK.

STREISAND: And ask yourself whether this applies to Britney, who can't handle her own food, shelter and clothing.

BROWN: Right.

STREISAND: And even potentially medical decisions. And that conservatorship certainly should get terminated and should get terminated right away.

BROWN: All right.

STREISAND: The conservatorship over her finances is the one where the investigation --

BROWN: We, unfortunately, Adam, have to wrap it up there. But you did say it all in a nutshell. So thank you so much, Adam Streisand.

STREISAND: My pleasure.

BROWN: And thank you for joining me this evening. I'll see you again next weekend.

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