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Three Suspects Arrested After Mass Shooting at St. Paul Bar District; Driver Nearly Ran Over Pedestrians in Los Angeles; United States Now Averaging Fewer Than 100,000 New COVID Cases Daily; Interview with Trump Impeachment Witness Fiona Hill; Interview with St. Paul Mayor Melvin Carter about Mass Shooting; Facebook in Damage Control Mode After Whistleblower Testimony; William Shatner Joins Blue Origin's Next Flight to Space; Aired 6-7p ET

Aired October 10, 2021 - 18:00   ET



PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Tonight three people now arrested after a mass shooting in Minnesota that left one person dead and 14 injured.

Also ahead, new details on an incredible FBI sting operation. How a couple allegedly hid nuclear sub secrets in a peanut butter sandwich.

And a driver is dead in California after he nearly hit pedestrians on a sidewalk and was then attacked by bystanders.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Hi, I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. Thanks for being here with us on this Sunday. And we want to begin tonight in St. Paul, Minnesota.

Tonight the community is struggling to understand why deadly gunfire rang out in a popular restaurant and bar district. Just after midnight, a barrage of bullets hit 15 people, turning a night on the town into complete chaos. St. Paul Police describe the crime scene as a, quote, "hellish situation." One woman in her 20s is dead, 14 people are wounded. Police have arrested several suspects but are still looking for others tonight.

CNN's Adrienne Broaddus is following this story for us. So, Adrienne, do police know what set this off? What more can you tell us?

ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: At this hour, Pamela, the motive behind this shooting is still unclear. We do know that three men are in custody, ranging in ages from 29 to 33. Those three men are also receiving treatment for their injuries. This after you mentioned 15 people were shot, including one woman in her 20s who didn't survive. She died at the scene. Fourteen others injured.

And I spoke just moments ago with the deejay who was enjoying a night of fun with everyone inside of that venue. He describes what he saw. Listen in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) PETER PARKER, DJ IN BAR DURING SHOOTING: I'm kind of spinning on the stage, having fun in my moment, and I hear it. Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. Everybody goes down. I'm like, OK, they're still shooting, pop, pop, but the music is playing. So I reached up and turned the music off, and then I was like, OK, let me peek the scene. I look around and I could see people really frantic and they want to get out of there really fast.


BROADDUS: And that was Mr. Peter Parker. He said it happened abruptly. He said he can't emphasize enough how much fun everyone was having before those shots were fired. He said there was no arguing, there was nothing that escalated to a shootout, and police are still trying to piece together what happened. As you can imagine, the scene is complex. There were victims inside and outside.

Meanwhile, Peter Parker told me he can't step back inside to deejay. He said he'll never play another record there again because what started as a night of fun ended so differently, and forever he's reminded of the horror that he saw unfold -- Pamela.

BROWN: Understandably traumatizing for him and others there. Adrienne Broaddus, thank you.

And coming up the half hour, I'm going to talk with St. Paul's mayor about what one Minnesota lawmaker calls an epidemic of gunfire violence in the Twin Cities.

And new tonight, a man has died after police in L.A. County say he drove his truck up onto a sidewalk and nearly hit several pedestrians. They say bystanders then pulled him from his vehicle, and when officers got to the scene, they found him dead.

CNN's Natasha Chen is in Los Angeles. What a story here, Natasha. What more do we know?

NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Pamela, like you were mentioning, he had driven up onto a sidewalk so potentially could have harmed a lot of people here. Luckily the bystanders were not injured. But this happened late Friday night into the early morning hours of Saturday, and just after midnight is when Hawthorne Police were called to the scene. They say that they went to an area outside the business.

One of our affiliates KABC says this was Rocket Sports Lounge in Hawthorne where the person, the driver had actually been in an altercation and been asked to leave that establishment. Police say he did but came back in his truck and drove up onto the sidewalk, nearly hitting several patrons who were standing outside there. At that point he lost control of the truck and drove into a tree.


The L.A. County Sheriff's Department is assisting in this case, and they say that people tried to pull him out of the vehicle at that point. But instead he was able to accelerate. Eventually actually ran the truck into a nearby building. And that's when people were actually able to pull him out of the vehicle. A physical fight ensued and apparently he was beaten. When police arrived at that point, they saw that he had blunt force trauma.

Paramedics tried to help him but he was pronounced dead at the scene. So right now the coroner's office is still working on a cause of death, because that blunt force trauma could be from the people attacking him, it could be from him running his truck into a building, it could be a combination of those things. But again, right now what we know is that this person is dead, this driver is dead, and that when he drove up onto the sidewalk, that was very serious and could have injured a lot more people on a Friday night outside of that lounge -- Pamela.

BROWN: Natasha Chen, thank you so much.

As COVID cases, hospitalizations and deaths decline, it's tempting to think the worst of the Delta variant is behind us. But Dr. Anthony Fauci says it still pays to be cautious.


DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISER TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: We have to just be careful that we don't prematurely declare victory. In many respects, we still have around 68 million people who are eligible to be vaccinated that have not yet gotten vaccinated. And even those who have been vaccinated, I mean, you want to look forward to holiday seasons and spending time with your family and doing those sorts of things, but don't just throw your hands up and say it's all over.


BROWN: Dr. Megan Ranney joins me now with more. She's associate dean of public health at Brown University.

And Dr. Ranney, you're also seeing what's going on in the emergency room firsthand and COVID patients still coming in. So that is what I want to start off this conversation with, where are we in this fight? I mean, haven't we seen this movie before, that we thought that we were turning the corner on the pandemic. It didn't happen. What is your sense now?

DR. MEGAN RANNEY, ASSOCIATE DEAN OF PUBLIC HEALTH, BROWN UNIVERSITY: Yes. How many times now, Pamela, have we said the worst is over, the surge is done, we're on the downward slope, only to have another surge right behind it? It is true that in many states, the worst of the Delta surge is likely over. We're seeing persistently decreasing cases, hospitalizations and even deaths in some of those southern states that were so badly affected over the summer.

But there are other states where cases are increasing dramatically. You know, as we move into colder weather, as our kids are back in school, we're setting the stage for another surge in some of our northern states. And as Dr. Fauci commented, there are still far too many of us that have not yet finished our first series of vaccines. So for now, I'm telling folks, you know, definitely go out and get your vaccines if you haven't yet.

Do what you can to make sure that when you're indoors, you're with other vaccinated people, try to improve ventilation, have rapid tests around in case someone gets symptoms. And if you're in an area with a surge, which is still most of the U.S. even today, make sure that you wear that mask indoors, in public places.

BROWN: But there are still millions of Americans who are eligible to be vaccinated who are still not vaccinated. If this continues to be the case, if the numbers stay where they are on that front, where does that leave us in terms of dealing with COVID and what our future looks like?

RANNEY: It leaves us in a much worse and more unstable space. You know, as people get infected, if they survive, they do develop some natural immunity. But it doesn't seem that that natural immunity is as durable or as variable. So it doesn't protect as well against new variants as the vaccine induced immunity. The other thing is that of course not everyone gets infected. And so people that haven't been infected yet and haven't gotten vaccinated are at total risks for catching this virus. That includes most of our kids right now, right, because that age 11 and younger group has not yet been eligible.

Without getting more people vaccinated, we're going to continue to see spread to the vulnerable, to the elderly, and we're going to continue to see these surges pop up across the country where I think vaccine mandates are making a big difference. We're seeing those numbers of vaccinations go up substantially as vaccine mandates have started to hit.

BROWN: So let's talk about vaccines for kids. That is on a lot of parents' minds. Vaccine approval for children ages 5 to 11, that is still pending. It may be after the first of the year before children younger than 5 are approved for the shot. So what should parents do about Halloween? I've got a 1-year-old and a 3-year-old at home. What should I do? Is it safe to take your kids trick-or-treating if they're unvaccinated?

RANNEY: So trick or treating is one of the safer activities we can engage in. It is outdoors, it is well ventilated, and I don't know about your kids, maybe not the 1-year-old, but my kids sure love to wear those masks when they're out on the streets or when they're going close to people.


If you're in a community with really high rates of COVID, I would consider having your kid wear a mask when they're going up to someone's door. Otherwise, again, those outdoor activities are safe. The caution, indoor Halloween parties are still a no, no for kids who aren't vaccinated yet. You're not going to do an indoor party probably with masks on so if you must do something try to take it outdoors.

BROWN: It's cute. I'm seeing a lot of kids dressed up as surgeons with masks this year.

Dr. Megan Ranney, yes, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your perspective on this.

RANNEY: Thank you.

BROWN: And lots more to tell you about tonight. Coming up on the show, what a COVID vaccine rollout for kids might look like. And then Brian Stelter is here with a look at Facebook's charm offensive after its disastrous week in D.C. And Fiona Hill, the top Russia adviser during the Trump administration says democracy is done if Trump gets back into the Oval Office. She joins me live in a moment.

But first a quick look at tonight's CNN Original Series "DIANA" which premieres at 9:00.


DIANA, PRINCESS OF WHALES: I was always different. I always see inside me that I was going somewhere different.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was going to marry her dashing prince. Like all the stories she'd read.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was iconic. She was box office.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Going to dance with the princess tonight?

JOHN TRAVOLTA, ACTOR: If she would like me to.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pre-Diana there was zero interest in the royal family.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't think anybody has grown up in public like Diana has.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Diana provided a very public model for defiance and truthfulness.

DIANA: Isn't it normal to feel angry and want to change a situation? I was able to recognize an inner determination to survive.

ANNOUNCER: The new CNN Original Series "DIANA" premieres tonight at 9:00 on CNN.



BROWN: Tonight signs that the House investigation into the January 6 attack on the Capitol is picking up speed. Select Committee member Adam Schiff says he doesn't perceive delays in getting records from the Trump White House. The path seemed to be clear Friday when President Biden denied Donald Trump's request to withhold the documents.


REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): We should, I think, get those documents soon because the sitting president has the primary say in executive privilege, but we also want to make sure that these witnesses come in and testify and we are prepared to go forward and urge the Justice Department to criminally prosecute anyone who does not do their lawful duty.


BROWN: A key player from President Trump's first impeachment trial is speaking out about her time as a top Russia adviser in the administration and about the larger threats she sees to American democracy.

Fiona Hill lays it out in her new book, "There is Nothing for You Here: Finding Opportunity in the 21st Century," and she joins me now live.

Hi, Fiona, good to see you.


BROWN: So how important is it in your view that President Biden declined to assert executive privilege over the Trump White House documents? Having worked in the White House, what do you expect the documents would reveal?

HILL: Well, I mean, to be honest, I'm not entirely sure what they will reveal, but hopefully they'll be helpful in trying to ascertain exactly what was going on in this swell of events around January 6th. Because the most important thing here is to really get a grasp on what happened in the lead-up to January 6th, and what was the state of mind of everybody in and around the White House when things were unfolding.

You know, we have a lot of pieces of information, but clearly we need much more to be able to get our hands around this. I mean, having a credible concluding analysis and a report on this event is extraordinarily important for the next round of elections because we know already that those elections are being contested. The midterms, you know, coming up in 2022 and then the prospects for the presidential election in 2024.

President Trump is already preparing himself it seems for another run at the presidency and basing that on the lie that he didn't, or rather he didn't lose, and Joe Biden did not win the election in 2020, and of course that was the precipitating event for January 6th.


HILL: He hadn't won, the election was being stolen and inciting people to basically go and try to stop the handover power in the Capitol building.

BROWN: And he repeated that delusional lie that the election was stolen from him in Iowa last night and talked about how much attention he's getting from his followers. Let's listen to that.


DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT: It's the single biggest issue, the issue that gets the most pull, the most respect, the biggest cheers is talking about the election fraud of 2020 presidential election. Nobody has ever seen anything like it.


BROWN: Is Trump doing exactly what Russia has been doing in the U.S., spreading this kind of dangerous misinformation and sowing distrust?

HILL: Well, what Russia has been doing, you know, for quite some time, and especially since its intervention in the 2016 elections is actually using material and those kinds of statements to exploit them and to basically come to sow division. So I think the most disturbing thing for anybody watching American politics for the last several years has been the fact that it's our own president, our own former president, Donald Trump, who has been talking down U.S. democracy.


I mean, in many respects the Russians don't have to do very much but sit back and watch as he does this. And it was President Trump who told everybody the election would be stolen before when it happened in November 2020. It's President Trump who kept telling Americans not to rely on the postal vote, not to rely on the postal service. It's been President Trump who's been accusing other Americans, including members of his own party, who have been the electoral officials in many of the states for somehow stealing the election.

I mean, this isn't really happening from an external or a foreign adversary. It's been coming from inside the United States, and it's very easy to manipulate that kind of disinformation especially when it's coming from the top.

BROWN: So what I hear you saying is basically he's making the Russians' job easier. The Russian who want to spread misinformation and sow distrust in democracy, he's taken some of their work off their plate and making their job easier.

HILL: That's absolutely right. I mean, I think it's entirely unprecedented that we in the United States are in this situation. The very fundamental basis of our democracy is rooted around trust in the electoral process, and also in the willingness of the outgoing executive, the outgoing president to hand over to the legitimately elected successor.

President Trump has shown no sign that that was what he was willing to do before the election, and since the election, he's of course claimed the election was stolen from him, that he is still the president. So I mean, we're already in territory the United States has never been in before.

BROWN: So on that note, how dangerous will another Trump run be for the future of democracy? And I say run because even if he loses fair and square, if he runs and loses, he will still claim the election was stolen, right? I mean, that's clearly his playbook.

HILL: Well, absolutely right. I mean, he's already said it was stolen the first time. Why would he ever change this? And again, if he does win on the back of these lies, these lies that are repeated over and over again, the big lie that he -- how the election was stolen away from him in 2020, then that means the whole premise of his presidency will be based on a lie. And you know, that's what I'm saying is that democracy will be done because, you know, here in the United States, for decades, for centuries, the United States has stood for the truth. Trusting our political system, trusting our election system, has been part and parcel of the fabric of the United States. So, you know, we're throwing this all away.

BROWN: We're throwing this all away which is terrifying, and to put a finer point on that, what you just said, you said, if he were to run again successfully, and how you define successfully depends on the person, right? But if he does run again --

HILL: Exactly.

BROWN: -- democracy will be done, as you say. So as a student of Putin, you wrote a book about him, does that mean you see this country being potentially vulnerable to becoming an autocracy in the future? What does that look like?

HILL: Well, I mean, an autocracy is when people have very limited choice for the members of parliament, the members of Congress, you know, kind of in the United States' case. In Russia, all of the political system is highly manipulated. And there's great frustration rising there, too, at the lack of choice. You also see opposition figures put in jail. Alexei Navalny, the key opposition figure to President Putin, has just survived an assassination attempt where they put a nerve agent in his underpants, of all things.

I mean, are we looking at that kind of thing in our future where a President Trump who is reelected on the basis of a lie will then put everyone who disagrees with him in jail? And all the opposition figures in jail? Will there be assassination attempts? I mean, we're already been on the verge of violence many, many times over, in the run-up to January 6th. I meant many widespread violence because there've been a lot of acts of violence.

And I just would like people to realize that this is the kind of thing that lies ahead of us here in the United States. And, you know, people may say, oh, this person is exaggerating. I mean, this couldn't possibly happen here. Well, yes, it could happen here.

BROWN: Do you think Americans are naive to the threat to democracy in this country from within? Because this is such a young country that really hasn't tested in ways other countries have.

HILL: Well, in many respects we're also an old country. And if you look at some of the countries of Europe, they didn't really get their independence around Pius II, until the same kind of period as the United States. I mean, around the same time as the United States was having its revolution and its war of independence away from Great Britain that, you know, the, you know, French just had a revolutionary that they were also trying to kind of get rid of their monarchy.

So, you know, in some respects, we're quite old. And we've been basically working in our democracy for an awfully long time. We've gone through all kinds of upheavals. The Civil War. We've also had the civil rights movement. We've had all of the conflicts around wars in Vietnam.


You know, we constantly are being challenged here, but I think this is the very first time certainly in living memory that this fabric of our democracy is being so stress tested by someone that millions of people had elected.


HILL: And, you know, again, this is something we're going to have to grapple with.

BROWN: What is your message, then, to Republicans who support this kind of behavior, support these lies and enable them, essentially? What is your message?

HILL: Well, I think -- they have to take a long hard look at themselves. I mean, is this really what they want to be able to stay in power at the expense of throwing away a democracy that's been built over the last several hundred years? I mean, the United States is being something unique and something exceptional. And if they don't, you know, take a long hard look at themselves, we're going to go down a not so exceptional path that many other countries have (INAUDIBLE), not just Russia, but many other countries around the world, that, you know, many Americans, immigrants who fled from those countries have tried to turn their back on.

I mean, there are so many people invested in the future of democracy in the United States, and it's really now resting on what people who were on Capitol Hill, people who've taken an oath of office, are really going to decide what to do in the years ahead.

BROWN: Yes. And it's interesting you noted this morning that immigrants who have fled those countries, they came here, and that is why they know, there is more of an awareness, potentially, because they've seen it happen firsthand in their country and they know what is possible.

Fiona Hill, really an eye-opening conversation. Congratulations on your book. Look forward to reading more of it. Thank you so much.

HILL: Thanks so much, Pamela.

BROWN: And we are following new developments in a deadly shooting in Minnesota. Police are now making arrests, and when we come back, I'll get the latest from the mayor of St. Paul, Melvin Carter.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.



BROWN: Well, there have been arrests in St. Paul, Minnesota after a night on the town turned deadly. Gunfire erupted just after midnight in one of the city's most popular restaurants and bar districts. A barrage of bullets hit 15 people, killing a woman in her 20s.

I want to discuss this latest episode of gun violence with the mayor of St. Paul, Melvin Carter. He joins me now.

Thank you so much for spending some time with us tonight. If you would, just bring us up to date on the latest of the shooting and the investigation.

MAYOR MELVIN CARTER, ST. PAUL, MINNESOTA: Pamela, thank you for having me on. You know, this is, of course, one of the hardest nightmares that a community can endure. For our community to wake up this morning and hear that 15 individuals in one setting, in one moment were shot, that one young woman lost her life, it's just heartbreaking and unacceptable. We've seen these instances of mass shootings like this happen across the country, but obviously this hits super close to home for us.

Our police department has been, of course, on the scene from the first moment, investigating, helping folks, triaging the scene. They were able to get three individuals into custody today, but of course our community is going to be listening closely because we need a whole lot more answers as to why something like this could happen to us.

BROWN: Right. What sparked this, right? In a series of tweets following the shooting, Congresswoman Betty McCollum referred to what she called the epidemic of gun violence plaguing the Twin Cities and described what happened overnight in St. Paul as a horror.

What is happening in St. Paul that would prompt her to use the words epidemic of gun violence?

CARTER: You know, sadly what's happening in St. Paul mirrors what's happening in so many communities across our country. We've seen an increase in gun violence particularly in the last year. At some level, you know, it's a reflection of the fact that we see more people out of work, more people out of their homes, more people socially isolated and more people with mental health concerns than ever before in our life, and levels of support that they need from community members.

And, you know, that level of desperation, like I said, the issues of poverty, the issues of unemployment, all of those types of things always end up being the generators of community kind of crime issues.

Our goal here in St. Paul is to build what we think of as our comprehensive and coordinated approach to public safety that includes officers working alongside community members very well. Again, last night our officers showed up on the scene right away, were able to get suspects in custody the next day. But we know our officers can't do it alone which is why we have to have this all-in coordinated approach together.

BROWN: Yes. We're looking at the video from this morning there. It was a crowded scene in that restaurant and bar district overnight. A lot of people out and about on a weekend night, enjoying themselves, spending money, boosting St. Paul's economy. How do you see this mass shooting impacting St. Paul's nightlife going forward?

CARTER: You know, our community is devastated. Our community is reeling from this. Obviously it's more than just 15 families. Those families of those 15 victims. It's our entire community, it's businesses, it's our restaurants, it's our bars. It's those folks who come in and out of town to enjoy our community. But one of the reasons we're reeling is because we're not used to things happening like this in our community because it's so rare and so different than what we're used to.

Our goal is to partner with all of those individuals. Our goal is to partner of course with our police department. Our goal is to partner with the community elders that can intervene with young people who are thinking about picking up a gun or thinking about what route they want to take in their life, and hopefully our goal is to finally be able to work with our legislature to pass the type of sensible gun control reforms that most Minnesotans know that we need.


BROWN: All right. Mayor Melvin Carter, thank you so much for your time tonight.

CARTER: Thank you.

BROWN: Well, Facebook executive is firing back after a week of backlash over the whistleblower testimony and a massive outrage -- and outage, I should say. Stay with us.



BROWN: Days after explosive testimony from a Facebook whistleblower, the social media giant is in damage control mode. Calls are growing for Congress to act after former Facebook employee Frances Haugen told senators the company is dividing the nation and allowing extremism to thrive. She claims Facebook knows what it's doing but ignores user safety to protect its profits.

The company stock price has already taken a beating. Shares are down 15 percent from an all-time high last month, and now Facebook executive Nick Clegg appears to be on a PR offensive, making the rounds on the Sunday morning shows but remaining defiant. He told our Dana Bash he couldn't give a yes or no answer when asked if fakebook's algorithms worked for the benefit of insurrectionists leading up to the January 6th insurrection.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) NICK CLEGG, VICE PRESIDENT OF GLOBAL AFFAIRS, FACEBOOK: If our algorithms are as nefarious as some people suggest, why is it that it's precisely those systems that have succeeded to reduce hate speech, the prevalence of hate speech on our platforms to as little as 0.05 percent?


BROWN: CNN chief media correspondent Brian Stelter joins me now.

Good to see you, Brian. So, look, Facebook is no stranger to criticism to being in crisis mode, right? But I have never seen Facebook be in damage control mode quite like I have seen this. Why is that? Why are you seeing this?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: I agree with you. I think it's because of the impact of Facebook whistleblower Frances Hougen, because of how credible she is and how many documents she has provided to reporters in order to back up her claims. There's never been someone from inside the house making such a strong warning about Facebook, and so that's why the company is on the defense this weekend.

As you said, you know, three Sunday shows today, including "STATE OF THE UNION." That is unprecedented for Facebook. That is a company acting like a nation state, acting like a political party. And of course that is increasingly what Facebook is. And it's helpful to view Facebook as a giant global player, you know, just like a country with a president, with a prime minister, with a parliament. That is Facebook.

It is a global player. And they are acting that way in the wake of these damning claims from the whistleblower. And look, Hougen is not the only one making these arguments. You've got former staffers also echoing her comments, but because she has documents pointing to Facebook knowing about its own dangers, Facebook has to respond. And you heard what Clegg did there. He said, well, we're working on hate speech, we've made great progress. Wel, that was a conversation from about a year ago. And he is now saying we've made great progress.

Now there are different issues that Hougen has put on the table and Facebook will belatedly follow up on those and belatedly follow up whatever comes next. They say they're working on features to urge you to take a break if you use Instagram too much. So maybe in six months that feature will exist, but what about all the damage in the meantime?

BROWN: And what about all the damage in the meantime? And why does it take so much public blowback to make those changes, those commonsense changes? And the question now is, what is Congress going to do? You have Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar also speaking to our Dana Bash this morning on "STATE OF THE UNION." She says she appreciates Clegg's willingness to talk about things but remains skeptical.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN:): The time for action is now. Basically for so long the social media companies have been saying, and the other tech platforms, trust us, we got this. Well, look where we are now. I think it's time to listen to people like Francis Hougen, the incredibly courageous whistleblower, that came forward, and not be afraid to take action anymore.


BROWN: I mean, you know, there is a question of Facebook and there is the question of Congress. Why hasn't Congress done more?


BROWN: She is -- Klobuchar is calling for privacy legislation as well as more transparency into fakebook's algorithms. How likely is it, in your view, that America's politicians will stand up to Facebook and take action? And by the way, politicians rely on Facebook often when they're running for reelection.

STELTER: Yes, they do, and they raise lots of money via Facebook and they get lots of donations from Facebook lobbyists. And that's true across the big tech world. We're talking about Google or Facebook or other big platforms.

Listen, I think the question is whether Facebook will change on its own or whether the government will step in and force changes. Well, with regard to the government, I think our skepticism level should be maybe not at a 10, but at least at a nine because of what you just said about the reliance on Facebook, what I'm talking about with the donations, with the incredible amount of disarray that we see in Congress every day on basic matters with the debt ceiling.

We know that what liberals want and conservatives want when it comes to big tech are very, very different. They are both mad at the big tech players but for different reasons. They both see political advantages to yelling about Facebook and Google and Apple, but for very different reasons. So I think we should be very skeptical about meaningful progress being made.


And hey, you know, it's like everything in life, Pam, you set your expectations low, and then you're even more surprised when it turns out to be OK.

BROWN: That's always a good move. Set the expectation low particularly when it comes to Congress.


BROWN: So I got to get to this "Saturday Night Live" skit. I mean, it was hilarious. It poked fun at the Senate hearing.

STELTER: It was. It was.

BROWN: It was a skit showing the Facebook whistleblower trying to explain social media to confused senators. Let's watch.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, I have 2,000 friends on Facebook. Is that good?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like is that a lot? 2,000 sounds like a lot. How many does Drake have, 4,000?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think he has like 50 million.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my god. No wonder he never answered my poke.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Miss Hougen, you've told us a lot of disturbing information about this so-called algorithm. Just want to clear up a few point. Where is it?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Do you have it with you now?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, but there are algorithms in all our phones and computers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not mine. I got a jitterbug flip phone. Only lets me call my son or the hospital.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is that what the kids are calling a meme?


BROWN: We did a montage recently of all the funny things that lawmakers have said, but what is your reaction?

STELTER: Well, number one, they're absolutely right, you know, that we need lawmakers that reflect the times and know how technology works. And right now we don't always seem to have that. However, the whistleblower here actually was very substantial, and that's a good sign. But I think we might see more progress out of Europe. You know, Hougen is going to be testifying before European legislators and speaking with European officials. They actually might be where we see more progress made on these issues.

And the most important fact, Pam, as we said in the very beginning, Facebook stock down 15 percent from its high last month. This is actually hurting the company in a way it never has before. No prior scandal has hurt Facebook the way this one has.

BROWN: All right. Brian Stelter, I'll leave it there. Thank you so much.

Well, beam me up, Bezos. The original Captain Kirk from "Star Trek" will soon go to space with Blue Origin. We're going to have more on that just ahead. Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)


BROWN: "Star Trek's" Captain Kirk will have to wait a little longer to go where no, shall we say, older human has gone before? Blue Origin is delaying William Shatner's space trip by a day because of high winds. The launch is now slated for Wednesday, at which point the 90-year-old actor will become the oldest person ever to travel to space.

CNN's Kristin Fisher has a preview.


WILLIAM SHATNER, ACTOR, PORTRAYED CAPTAIN KIRK: I'm losing command. I'm losing the Enterprise.

KRISTIN FISHER, CNN SPACE AND DEFENSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He led the USS Enterprise on an Intergalactic Odyssey. Now he will get to go on his own odyssey.

SHATNER: Things I've only played as an actor I'm going to see firsthand.

FISHER: "Star Trek's" iconic Captain James Kirk will soon get to go to space for real.

SHATNER: I'm thrilled and anxious and a little nervous and a little -- frightened about this whole new adventure.

FISHER: Blue Origin announced on Monday that actor William Shatner will be on the company's next flight alongside Audrey Powers, Blue Origin's vice president of Mission and Flight Operations.


FISHER: Shatner, Powers and two others will lift off from a remote stretch of west Texas less than three months after the company's first crewed launch. The crew will enjoy about four minutes of weightlessness during an 11-minute suborbital trip to space, similar to what Jeff Bezos, his brother, and two others did during the summer.

SHATNER: I go to the edge of space and loosen the restraints around me and be weightless and looking into the vastness of the universe.

FISHER: Shatner, who played Captain Kirk on the hit television series "Star Trek" and went on to star in seven "Star Trek" films, joked about this opportunity years ago.

AL ROKER, NBC NEWS ANCHOR: If you were given the opportunity to go into space, would you?

SHATNER: If I got a guarantee that I would come back.

FISHER: That opportunity is now here, and 90-year-old Shatner seems surprised himself. SHATNER: Because 55 years ago, I was destitute and I'm looking up at

the sky, at the astronauts stepping on the moon, and I had a little bit to do with those astronauts. And 55 years later, I'm going into space. I want to come back and tell you about how I really felt when I saw these things that we've only learned about secondhand.

FISHER: His fans are excited to hear about his mission, too. Many taking to Twitter to express their excitement. Late-night host Stephen Colbert even making a joke about the mission, tweeting, "I hope William Shatner doesn't have unrealistic expectations of what space is like."

Kristin Fisher, CNN, Washington.


BROWN: And still to come right here on the CNN NEWSROOM on this Sunday, the FBI says it foiled an espionage plot involving a Navy engineer, his wife, and a peanut butter sandwich. We're going to have more on this story just ahead. Stay with us.



BROWN: Princess Diana was the most famous woman in the world. Everywhere she went around the globe from state dinners to charitable missions, a throng of media and admirers followed her. The all-new CNN Original Series "DIANA" begins in just a couple of hours, and here's a quick look with CNN's Max Foster.


MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: Diana's childhood home, the Althorp Estate in Northamptonshire, England, also where she was laid to rest. No longer a member of the royal family but still the mother of a future king. Her legacy is much wider than that of course. She was an icon of fashion and of humanitarianism, single handedly transforming public perceptions of everything from HIV/AIDS, to leprosy, to the scourge of disused landmines.

Her celebrity was her greatest asset, but it's also what ultimately killed her according to both her sons and her brother, who still lives here at Althorp.