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Economic Challenges; Former Trump Aides Defying Congressional Subpoenas; President Biden Delivers Update on Pandemic Response. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired October 14, 2021 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:01]

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My team and I are doing everything we can.

But I'm calling on more businesses to step up. I'm calling on more parents to get their children vaccinated when they are eligible. And I'm asking everyone, everyone who hasn't gotten vaccinated, please get vaccinated. That's how we put this pandemic behind us and accelerate our economic recovery.

We can do this, as I have said many times.

God bless you all, and may God protect our troops. Thank you very much.

(CROSSTALK)

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

And we just listened into the president giving the nation an update on the pandemic and his administration's vaccination efforts.

Let me bring in chief White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins and Dr. Jorge Rodriguez, a board-certified internal medicine specialist and viral researcher.

Kaitlan, obviously, this administration is very focused on turning the coroner in this pandemic. Did we learn anything in that presser?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think this is the president providing an update after he had gotten a briefing with his team earlier this morning, but we should note that it does come as some polls have shown that, as we have seen the economy has really struggled to overcome the pandemic, of course, you have seen the numbers on COVID lately, that some Americans have lost faith what the president has been saying about the pandemic.

And so I think this is part of an attempt by the White House to not just have him in front of a camera speaking about the pandemic and the steps that they are taking, but also to talk about -- essentially trying to reassure Americans that this is something that the president is focused on, because it is something that he has said since the beginning of his presidency will be critical to his success as a president, which is not just getting people vaccinated and talking about the pandemic, which he did there, talking about vaccine mandates and how effective they think they are.

And we should step back and talk about how just notable that is, because it is a big reversal of a position that the White House held not that long ago, and one that they said that they were drawn to because, of course, they didn't -- they underestimated just how many Americans would refuse to get vaccinated.

And the president believes that number is about 66 million Americans who are eligible to get the vaccine that have not yet gotten it. And, of course, it's causing a slew of other issues for them, like when it comes to the economy. And, yesterday, we were talking about the major disruptions to the global supply chain and the effect that that's having here.

We saw the Consumer Price Index yesterday say that that jumped 5.4 percent in September. Of course, that is a key read on inflation, which we know is a concern for voters. And so I think all of that is the context for what you just saw the president talk about there, though I will say, Ana, I'm a little surprised that President Biden did not take questions again from reporters just there, as he gave a few minutes of remarks and then left the room.

He also did not speak yesterday, or did not take questions from reporters after talking about what they're doing to try to fix the supply chain and untangle it yesterday. And he also did not take questions after the jobs report that came out last week when we were talking to the president about that.

Of course, these are big questions that are facing this White House over what exactly they believe is going to be the path forward, since they know this is so critical to their success as a White House.

CABRERA: Absolutely.

And, Doctor, right now, nearly 57 percent of the entire U.S. population is fully vaccinated. We heard the president express optimism of about more people getting vaccinated, saying vaccine mandates are proving effective to doing just that.

But, as you can see, it's not enough right now. Only a quarter of vaccines being administered each day are first doses at this point. Cases, hospitalizations, deaths, they have all been going down nationwide. But I have to wonder, will we ever get out of this pandemic if more people don't start getting vaccinated?

DR. JORGE RODRIGUEZ, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Well, the answer is pretty clear. No, we will not get out of this pandemic unless more people are vaccinated or have natural immunity and we have that ever mystical herd immunity.

I think it's really important to hit on two points. One is, vaccines work. Vaccines are safe, as 3.7 billion people in the world that have been vaccinated can attest to. I also think that it's really interesting that the patient used -- I mean -- excuse me -- that the president used the word requirement, which is a word that I use, because mandate just seems to create a rift.

Listen, if I want to work in my hospital, I am required to be vaccinated against hepatitis A and hepatitis B and not to have tuberculosis. I have the freedom not to do that job. But every job has a requirement, and I think it is fine, I think it's actually essential, right, that jobs and companies protect all of their workers who also have rights, not just the people that don't want to get vaccinated.

These are requirements. And they're requirements for the safety of all people, who also have rights.

CABRERA: Dr. Rodriguez, it's great to have you with us.

RODRIGUEZ: Thank you.

CABRERA: Kaitlan Collins, thank you. Appreciate both of you.

Defying Congress at the risk of criminal charges. This is the other big story developing right now. Two Trump loyalists, Steve Bannon and Kash Patel, are expected to ignore their subpoenas and not testify today before the House committee investigating the Capitol insurrection.

[13:05:08]

Members of that panel say they will pursue criminal contempt charges against anyone who won't cooperate. Also, the committee has now subpoenaed this man, a former high-ranking Justice Department attorney, who became known as -- quote -- "Trump's big lie lawyer."

Jeffrey Clark allegedly drafted a letter falsely claiming the DOJ found voting irregularities affecting the election in several states. Now, it was part of an effort to overturn Trump's loss.

CNN's Whitney Wild is tracking these developments.

Whitney, Steve Bannon's lawyer says he won't comply, while sources I know are telling you Patel is still engaging with the committee, despite today's deadline. So what happens next?

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, right now, we know that the committee is fully prepared to, as you said, move forward with criminal contempt.

And what that could look like is, by the time the committee is very certain that Bannon is definitely not going to show up, and is not just going to appear out of nowhere, then they say that they're very committed to moving forward with criminal contempt. And what that means is that first it goes through the committee. Then it will go for a vote. Then there's a referral to the Department of Justice, where Merrick Garland, the attorney general, still has prosecutorial discretion here. So what happens once it falls into his lap is anyone's guess. But at this point, it does appear that at least the people who are working on this House select committee are prepared to basically utilize the most severe tool in their bag here, which is the criminal contempt.

Further, we're tracking a list of other people who were supposed to deliver documents this week. Others, as we know, Mark Meadows, Dan Scavino, are supposed to appear for depositions tomorrow, another big question mark over them as well. So this week we will be very telling about how much pushback Trump allies are going to give to the House select committee as they move forward, which could make this timeline even longer.

It could set up a pretty severe and lengthy legal fight here, Ana.

CABRERA: OK, so keep us posted on what happens this afternoon.

Now to that new subpoena.

Thanks, Whitney.

Investigators want to talk to Jeffrey Clark, the man congressional investigators have labeled Trump's big lie lawyer.

And CNN's Tom Foreman is joining us now for more on this.

Tom, there were a lot of people pushing Trump's big lie.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

CABRERA: Clark was allegedly a big part of this.

FOREMAN: Yes, a really key part of it or could have been.

Let's look, first of all, the general picture of who he is, former Trump Department of Justice official. He supported the election fraud conspiracies of Donald Trump. And, importantly, he did this at a time when Trump kept going back to the top people in the department and saying, come on, come on, come on, you got to say there was a problem with the election, you have to announce that something is wrong, that you're investigating it, and then I will take care of everything else.

They would not do it. But Jeffrey Clark showed an appetite for that. And he said, sure, I will go ahead and do that.

So, when he gets up against the acting director, Rosen, he's basically saying, I will support Trump's claim in all of this.

What was he beyond the resume? You could say he looks a lot to critics out there like a guy who was ambitious and felt underappreciated or underpromoted in the Department of Justice.

And then there was this famous meeting, where Trump, according to witnesses, say -- well, it was basically pitting the two against him, saying, look, I will throw him out, and I will put you in the top job if you can get this through, if you can get the big lie into a position to shut down Georgia's results. Let me get those results and move closer to stealing this election.

The problem is, then, White House attorneys came in. Pat Cipollone came in and said, no, no, no, you -- this is a bad, bad plan. And he referred to it as a murder-suicide pact, the notion being that what might happen here is, if you do this, all of a sudden, White House attorneys, Department of Justice top officials, that they all walk, they very publicly step out and say, no, we don't support this. No, this is wrong. This is in fact some version of a coup.

That was the concern. But that's who Jeffrey Clark is. And that's why the committee wants to talk to him, because they think he was Trump's backdoor to try to overturn the Department of Justice and steal the election.

CABRERA: Tom Foreman, thank you.

FOREMAN: You're welcome.

CABRERA: Now you're up to speed with where this investigation stands.

Let's break down where it's headed with CNN senior legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Elie Honig and CNN chief political analyst Gloria Borger.

Elie, first, defying subpoenas. Steve Bannon, he wasn't working in the White House anywhere close to the 2020 election. Trump is no longer president. So it seems this executive privilege argument is moot.

Where do things go from here?

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Ana.

Well, the big question now is, how much of this defiance and foot- dragging is Congress willing to take? Look, they set these deadlines. They said, we want documents by October 7. That's a week ago. We want two people testifying today. We want two more tomorrow.

Guess what? Here we are. It's the middle of the day, October 14. They have got nothing. So are they going to get slow-played? Are they going to get dragged into the courts? Are they going to just wait until this thing fizzles out?

[13:10:10]

There's two things they can do. One, as Whitney said before, they can send this case over to DOJ. At that point, that's really not Congress' decision. It's Merrick Garland's decision whether to bring criminal charges.

And, two, they can get into courts and seek a judicial order requiring these people to testify. They can do both of those. The members of the committee have been very public this week, saying, we're going to use every tool at our disposal. Now's the time for them to do that.

CABRERA: And, Gloria, obviously, this tactic to muck everything up in the courts, delay, delay, delay, that has worked for Trump and his allies all along. This has been a good strategy for them in the past.

How could it be different this time?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, the difference is that the Democrats control the Congress, the Democrats control the White House, and the attorney general is not Barr. It's Merrick Garland.

Now, again, nobody knows what Merrick Garland would do so far as contempt is concerned. But I think, since they have been through it before, they feel like they're not going to put up with it anymore. So they must have a plan.

Used to be you could throw people in jail in Congress. There's no jail, apparently, anymore in Congress, but it used to be you just take them down the basement somewhere and put them in jail. They can no longer do that.

But I feel from talking to one member of the committee yesterday that they are all united that they're not going to stand for it anymore. So we have to see what their next move is vis-a-vis contempt and how they can try to make something like this stick quickly.

Now, I don't know how they would do that.

CABRERA: Well, Elie, you mentioned that they could move quickly. And within hours, we are told they may start this process of the criminal contempt charges.

But Attorney General Merrick Garland would play this key role. As you pointed out, Congress moves forward criminal contempt. The DOJ would then be responsible for taking on the prosecution. And, historically, there really hasn't been much success in that.

So what do you expect Merrick Garland to do?

HONIG: Yes, there's been no success in terms of charging criminal contempt by the Justice Department for the past half-century. It's been over 50 years since we have seen a Justice Department actually bring those charges.

Why is a good question. It's politically fraught. It's a risky thing to do. It's seen as dangerous. But Merrick Garland has a job to do here. And I think there's really -- when it comes to this delay, how do we avoid this delay game?

There's really three parties here who can impact that, one, Congress. They seem like they're poised to move quickly, as Gloria says. Two is Merrick Garland. He's going to have a decision to make. He cannot sit on that for months and months on end.

And three is the courts. We don't ask questions of our judges a lot of time, but the way federal courts work, it's not first in, first out. It's not like a deli counter. Judges can take whatever case they feel is most important and deal with it right away. And our federal judges need to do that here. They can't delay. They need to get these cases decided quickly.

CABRERA: Do you think Merrick Garland will pursue it?

HONIG: I think Steve Bannon is the most likely person he will go after, because Bannon's claims of executive privilege are so utterly frivolous.

CABRERA: OK.

And then you have former President Trump, meantime, Gloria, still pushing the lie, essentially saying now that, unless the 2020 election is overturned, Republicans aren't even going to vote in the midterms or in 2024. His party can't be happy with these comments.

BORGER: Are you kidding?

I mean, if I were a Republican running for reelection or potentially running for the presidency, I'd be doing the silent scream right now. Remember when Trump did this last time, said the election was rigged, don't vote?

CABRERA: Georgia?

BORGER: They lost a couple of seats in Georgia, right.

So if you ever had any doubt whether Donald Trump cared about who controls the Congress after the next election, now you have no doubt, because he doesn't care. He doesn't care if Republicans lose seats over this. If he's telling Republicans to stay home, they might and they could, and maybe they even definitely will.

And who will that hurt? That will hurt Republican candidates, because the question of the rigged election and the big lie has already been resolved. It is a big lie. And so that is not going to change.

So, Donald Trump saying this hurts his own party. They know it, but they're boxed in because they refuse to come out and call him out on it.

CABRERA: So do you think that could actually backfire on him, this comment, this latest statement that he's put out, in that he's being so obvious he doesn't care about the Republican Party? You think they will finally say, fine, we're not loyal to you either?

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: Yes, I mean, he -- I think they're loyal to -- the question I have is, when is the moment that a Republican will come out and say, Republicans, go and vote, it's been resolved?

[13:15:00] Now, you have Liz Cheney, Adam Kinzinger, the folks who are on the committee, the January 6 committee. But when are they going to say enough is enough?

Imagine if you're Mitch McConnell trying to win back control of the win back of control the Senate right now. And you hear the former president of the United States saying, stay home, stay home. Imagine.

CABRERA: Well, thank you. It makes it interesting. That's for sure. Never a dull moment.

Elie Honig, Gloria Borger, appreciate both of you. Thanks.

BORGER: Thanks.

HONIG: Thanks, Ana.

CABRERA: It's a new and potentially catastrophic curveball for the already rocky economic recovery. More than 100,000 workers from Kellogg plants to Hollywood sets now either on strike or threatening to walk out. Why now? And how bad could this get?

Plus, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell remaining silent as more players, cheerleaders, former staffers call on the league to release more details from that probe that took down former Raiders head coach Jon Gruden.

We will talk with a former cheerleader who says she deserves answers.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:20:23]

CABRERA: A new jobs report today injecting some desperately needed good news into an otherwise struggling economy.

The Labor Department says new unemployment claims officially fell below 300,000 last week. That is the lowest they have been since the start of the pandemic. Still, big problems remain. Look at this list of economic pressures facing the country right now.

Americans are paying more for just about everything. Gasoline prices, for example, are up dramatically over the past year. And they are still rising. A gallon of gas today costs on average 6 cents more than it did just last week, this as nationwide labor strikes are now threatening everything from Netflix to Frosted Flakes. More on that in just a moment.

If all that's not enough, the global supply chain nightmare is further complicating the U.S. economic picture.

And CNN's Amara Walker is in Savannah, Georgia, where ships are now waiting up to a week to unload their cargo.

Amara, something has got to give. What's the plan?

AMARA WALKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, talk about a major traffic jam and a major backlog.

So, here at the Port of Savannah, that supply chain nightmare you're talking about is on full display. Just look over my right shoulder here, you see a wall of shipping containers stacked about five stories high. We're talking about 70,000 to 80,000 of these steel boxes just waiting to be taken to their final destination, whether it be store shelves or factories.

The Georgia Ports Authority tells me they are at capacity here. Also, 25 cargo ships right now are in the queue anchored out at sea waiting to get support, many of them waiting up to five days.

Why is this happening? There's several factors to take into account. First off, the Georgia Ports Authority tells you that they have experienced a 25 increase in demand for goods so far this year compared to the same time period last year.

Of course, that's overwhelming the supply chain. We're seeing that everywhere. Not enough truck drivers. And, of course, that's forcing some retailers to not pick up their goods for several weeks at a time.

So, the Georgia Ports Authority overall is saying, look, we are making good progress operationally, things are moving along. When will all this end? Look, nobody knows. But the Ports Authority tells me at least for another several weeks, Ana

CABRERA: Well, we see all of those bins stacked right over your shoulder. Thank you so much, Amara.

Now to this new curveball that is threatening to make massive labor shortages and supply chain problems even worse. Right now, more than 100,000 unionized workers from Kellogg factories to Hollywood sets are either on strike right now or are threatening to walk out.

This morning, some 10,000 employees of John Deere declared they would strike, igniting the country's largest private sector walkout since the GM strike of two years ago.

And joining us now is Liz Shuler. She's the president of AFL-CIO, the largest federation of unions in the United States, with 12.5 million members.

Liz, thank you for joining us.

These strikes are coming at a very volatile time for the global economy. Is that on purpose? Do you and other union leaders see this as a moment of leverage?

LIZ SHULER, PRESIDENT, AFL-CIO: Well, absolutely.

I was just listening to the report from Savannah, where the economy is broken. The system is not working for working people. And it's because we have prices going up, insecurity around what jobs are going to be safe. How can people go to work and actually make a decent living?

And this is the time where people are saying, you know what, I have had enough. We have worked hard through this pandemic to get this country moving again. We're being called essential one day, and then actually being suppressed the next. So that's what these workers who are voting to go on strike are saying. They have a line in the sand. They have made the sacrifices.

They just want a decent-paid job with some security, some good health care coverage, and the ability to have some respect and dignity at work.

CABRERA: So, what specifically, though, are they demanding? Because right now we know that overall wages are up about 4.6 percent over the previous year, according to labor and the statistics, the Bureau of Labor -- Department of Labor, I should say, the hourly pay up 4.6 percent.

What more are you asking for?

SHULER: Well, it's about pay, but it's about hours, stability, security. It's about meal and rest breaks.

You think about these folks who are looking at going on strike in the movie and television industry. They are actually fighting for the weekend in 2021, where they want the ability to have a meal and a rest break and not to have to work on a Friday night and go home for less than eight hours before they have to show up again the next day.

[13:25:09]

So, I think this is about basic fairness and respect, and along with pay, because we do have a shortage of good jobs in this country. The inequities we're seeing in the economy, where we have -- we talk about inequality, where some folks are doing really well, and the 99 percent are still struggling and having to work one, two, three jobs just to get by.

What we need now is good, secure, sustainable jobs.

CABRERA: So how far are the unions willing to go? And do you expect we will see more of these walkouts?

SHULER: Well, no one likes to go on strike. Let's just be clear that we have a long tradition in the labor movement of working at a collective bargaining table across the table from management in a symbiotic way.

And only until we get pushed to a limit, where basic fairness and equity are violated, and you can't just continue to see wages go down, health care benefits taken away, retirement security disappear without saying, enough is enough. And that's where we are. We're at a breaking point.

And so unless we get corporate America to wake up and say, you know what, labor is our most valuable asset, we should be investing in it, we shouldn't continue this race to the bottom that we're seeing in the economy and be responsive to what we're hearing from workers.

CABRERA: Have you been in touch with the administration, with the president over these issues?

SHULER: Absolutely.

And the Biden/Harris administration is supportive of working people in this country, investing in the working people of this country. And, in fact, the legislation that's pending in Congress now is going to create up to four million jobs per year if we can get it across the finish line.

And so the administration is very much concerned with the economic fairness that working people are facing and that we need to be investing in working people.

CABRERA: Lastly, I just want to ask you about the vaccine mandates or requirements. You have expressed support for mandates. Again, you represent more than 50 unions, millions of members.

How many of your members are vaccinated?

SHULER: We're seeing very, very high vaccination rates, and we believe everyone should be vaccinated.

And, in fact, unions use their collective bargaining process in workplaces all across this country to make sure that workers have a voice and how that vaccination policy is implemented, and to be at the table in terms of workplace safety standards and how those are implemented.

So we think the union can actually be a great partner in making sure that everyone gets vaccinated in this country.

CABRERA: And if I'm hearing you correctly, your union members are on board with having requirements in place for vaccinations?

SHULER: There is no one-size-fits-all, because, industry to industry, it, it's different.

But for the most part, I would say the labor movement has been not only a good partner with employers in promoting these policies and promoting safety in the workplace, but also a good source of information, as we know, with information, disinformation that's out there on social media and other places. The union can be a trusted source.

CABRERA: Right.

Liz Shuler, I appreciate your time. Thank you so much.

SHULER: Thank you, Ana.

CABRERA: Former NFL cheerleaders are now demanding answers after leaked vulgar e-mails cost the former Raiders head coach Jon Gruden his job. They say the league needs to release the larger report connected to those e-mails.

But the NFL is refusing. Roger Goodell is silent. I will speak to one of those cheerleaders next.

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