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Deputy Killed In Houston Ambush; More Officers Killed By Gunfire This Year Than In 2020; Former President Clinton Making Progress, Expected To Be Discharged From Hospital On Sunday; Joe Biden Backs Prosecuting Anyone Defying January 6th Committee Subpoenas; Dems Face Big Decision Over How To Slash Cost Of Economic Plan; Convicted Killer Robert Durst Has COVID-19; FDA Panel: J&J Recipients Should Get A Second Dose As Soon As Available. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired October 16, 2021 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:18]

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): One Deputy is dead and two others wounded after being ambushed by a gunman in Texas.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A second suspect came out of nowhere with a rifle and began to basically shoot our Deputy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Biden honors fallen officers from across the country from the steps of the Capitol.

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Being a cop today is one hell of a lot harder than it's ever been.

DR. ASHISH JHA, DEAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: J&J is a very good vaccine. I also believe it's probably a two-shot vaccine. Probably one is not enough. It's really urgent that people go get that second shot pretty quickly.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Doctors will keep former President Bill Clinton in a California Hospital for a fifth night as he recovers from a urinary tract infection.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sepsis, when you're diagnosed with it is as serious as it gets.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: I am Pamela Brown in Washington, you are in the CNN NEWSROOM on this Saturday. It's great to have you along with us tonight.

And we want to begin in Houston where police have identified the Deputies ambushed by gunman who quote "came out of nowhere." Twenty- eight-year-old Constable Deputy Darryl Garrett is in intensive care with his injuries, 26-year-old Juqaim Barthen was also wounded in the attack right outside of a bar.

His condition at this hour is unknown. Thirty-year-old Kareem Atkins died from his injuries. The Deputy is survived by his wife and two- month-old baby and in fact he had just returned from paternity leave.

Law enforcement agencies from across the country escorted Deputy Atkins's body to the Medical Examiner's Office as officers lined the streets to pay tribute. Police say a person taken into custody at the scene is not believed to be the shooter.

And the fatal ambush coming on the very day President Biden honored law enforcement officers who have died in the line of duty. President Biden and the First Lady took part at the National Peace Officers Memorial Service. The President telling the families left behind that the nation shares their grief.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Being a cop today is one hell of a lot harder than it's ever been. And to the families of the fallen, you've suffered enormous loss, but understand, your loss is also America's loss -- America's loss and your pain is America's pain.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Let's go to Joe John's at the White House tonight. Joe, the ceremony was held in front of the US Capitol where law enforcement showed so much courage on January 6th. What did the President have to say? What more?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Pamela, this was first and foremost a tribute to the law enforcement officers around the country who died in 2019 and 2020 in the line of duty, but the setting, the location, the timing, all especially important because of what happened on January 6th. The responders who sacrificed; some, the ultimate sacrifice in defending the United States Capitol. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Particularly appropriate today is here nine months ago, your brothers and sisters thwarted an unconstitutional and fundamentally un-American attack on our nation's values and our votes. But because of you, democracy survive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: The President also sent condolences to the three Deputies shot, one killed in Houston that you already spoke of, Pamela. The President also talked just a bit about some of his policy priorities when it comes to policing including the George Floyd Justice and Policing Act.

This is legislation that got tied up and stalled in the Senate in September. There's been some talk, but no clear decision on whether the President might sign off on some type of executive action to try to put some of those initiatives in place without legislation -- Pamela.

BROWN: Joe Johns, thank you so much.

Rob Pride is the National Trustees Chairman of the Fraternal Order of Police. Sergeant Pride, thank you for making time for us tonight.

Even before this deadly ambush in Houston, the number of officers killed by gunfire nationwide has surpassed all of last year's total. That is heartbreaking. Why do you think that's happening?

SGT. ROB PRIDE, NATIONAL TRUSTEES CHAIRMAN, FRATERNAL ORDER OF POLICE: Well, Pamela, I think it is a variety of things. You know, first and foremost, our police agencies across the nation are struggling to recruit and retain good officers.

[18:05:10]

PRIDE: No one is really raising their hand to be police officers right now. We're seeing a shortage in that. I also think the anti-police sentiment that we've experienced across the nation over the last year plays into that. And it's just like the President said today in front of our survivors, being a police officer in the nation, it is a hell of a lot harder than it's ever been including these attacks.

BROWN: And so you agree with what President Biden said that it's more difficult than ever to be in law enforcement today?

PRIDE: Absolutely, Pam. Listen, I've been doing this job for 30 years now, and I can tell you that the job of being a police officer today is certainly not the job that it was when I started, and our communities expect a lot more from us, and rightly so.

And they expect us to do the job a certain way better than it was done 30 years ago, but that makes it harder, and we have to continue to be better. But we also need the help of our legislators in our community when it comes to how hard it is to do this job and these attacks, and the ambushes like you spoke about down in Houston. Tragic.

BROWN: Right, and of course today, January 6th came up in the President's speech. I want to note that your union endorsed Donald Trump in 2016 and 2020.

A few weeks ago, I spoke with the partner of Officer Sicknick who died a day after the insurrection. She said she never heard from Trump. She is still waiting to meet with him. She is getting no response. Is that disappointing to you?

PRIDE: Well, here's what I would say. The entire incident on January 6th is tragic and disappointing and what our officers went through that day. In regards to not hearing from President Trump, I can't speak for that. I can't speak for him or his staff.

But you know, what I can tell you is that today, our President and nations leaders were there at the Capitol honoring our fallen. And I can tell you the last time we had a ceremony, our nation's leaders, including President Trump were there honoring our fallen and their families.

So we appreciate it when the President is involved in that. I can't speak for his personal conversations with those families, but when the leader of the free world shows up at our ceremony, we are blessed and honored to have him and the families appreciate them attending.

BROWN: I understand and you don't want to -- you can't talk about Trump specifically and what he has said in the conversations he's had, but as -- in your role, and given your organization, FOP, there was one Capitol Police officer who died the day after January 6th, you had four who died by suicide after the insurrection who had responded on that day.

And now you are seeing people in Washington, lawmakers in Washington, Republicans whitewashing what happened on that day. Is that disappointing?

PRIDE: You know, when you say whitewashing, I think that's a pretty broad term. But here's what I'll tell you, Pamela. It is important that we talk about what happened that day and that we talk about what those officers went through and ensure it doesn't happen again.

It really doesn't matter to us what side of the aisle those folks are on -- Republicans, Democrats -- it doesn't matter. We have to talk about what happened that day. We have to talk about the trauma those officers suffered and are still suffering to this day.

And if there are folks in leadership that can help with that and folks in leadership that they haven't heard from, then yes, of course, that's disappointing. But let's -- you know, I would love to talk with those families directly and see what we can do to assist them and those officers to assist them.

But in regards to what our legislators are doing, we're ready -- we're ready to -- we've always been ready to have those open conversations to ensure anything like this doesn't happen again and what we can do in the fallout of that.

BROWN: Just to be clear, when I said whitewashing, I mean, downplaying what happened on that day, saying, look, that was just a day in January. You just heard the former Vice President say that -- those kinds of sentiments about that day and really the impact it had on Capitol Police officers.

Sergeant, since the start of a pandemic, five times as many cops have died from COVID-19 as gunfire. It is the number one killer of law enforcement. So, why are police unions opposed to vaccine mandates?

PRIDE: Well, what our stance has always been, Pam, is this, it is that, we believe the scientific data shows that vaccines overall are safe for our members and officers to take, but we will never support that they should be mandated. We believe that that's a personal choice that our members or citizens in general should be able to make after they have those consultations with their doctors and with those -- you know that are helping them with their overall health.

We believe that it should be by choice. We support the vaccine. We encourage our members who are comfortable getting it, getting it. We do believe it should be a choice.

[18:10:07] BROWN: Rob Pride. Thank you very much.

PRIDE: Thank you. Appreciate you having us.

BROWN: We have just learned that President Clinton is making progress and he is expected to be discharged from the hospital on Sunday. CNN's Natasha Chen is live with the very latest. So, Natasha, what more can you tell us?

NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right, well, Pamela, we heard from his spokesperson within the last 30 minutes or so in a tweet, and I can read you that statement here -- is saying that "President Clinton has continued to make excellent progress over the last 24 hours. He will remain overnight at UC Irvine Medical Center to continue to receive IV antibiotics before an expected discharge tomorrow."

"He's in great spirits and has been spending time with family, catching up with friends, and watching college football. He is deeply grateful for the excellent care he continues to receive and thankful to the many well-wishers who have sent kind words to him and his family. He is looking forward to getting home very soon."

So you can tell that he is doing much better. That's what we've been hearing throughout the day that the daily tests they're doing show that he is trending in the right direction right now. It's that IV antibiotics treatment that we are told, typically can take three to five days to complete and that's why we're seeing him staying in the hospital up to five days or so because he did check in here on Tuesday evening. And it's important that they want to finish that treatment before he gets back on a plane to go home.

We did find out that he spoke to President Biden yesterday on the phone. They spoke about the Virginia governor's race, and we did see Secretary Hillary Clinton and daughter, Chelsea walk in this morning at just shortly after 8:00 a.m. Pacific Time. So they've been in there for several hours, and doctors and staff have told us that he has been able to get up, walk around. He has got a couple of books, been joking with the staff.

So it seems like he is doing better and on the mend, hopefully, to return home soon -- Pamela.

BROWN: All right. Natasha Chen, thank you so much. And updating you now on the situation right now at Reagan National Airport right outside of Washington, D.C., two main runways have been shut down after a flight had a quote, "mechanical issue" as it landed.

Take a look. These are some live pictures coming out of Reagan National Airport. CNN aviation correspondent Pete Muntean is on the line. So Pete, what's going on there?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Well the good news here, Pamela, is that 69 people were on board this flight, Republic Airlines Flight 4965. Thankfully, no injuries. We've just heard from the F.A.A. that they will investigate this

incident that happened around 4:19 this afternoon. The type of plane, an Embraer 175, and the F.A.A. tells us that the flight blew two of its tires -- six tires on an airplane like this.

So overall, not that huge of a deal although, there may have been some discomfort for passengers. The issue here though is that the disabled plane is having a pretty big impact. It shut down two runways at Reagan National Airport, runways one and one nine. They run north and south. That's the main runway.

This happened on runway one, it is closed, according to a notice to pilots. Runway one, five, and three-three that intersects that main run line runs northwest and southeast. That's the backup. It is also closed.

So this is having a pretty big impact for other flights coming into Reagan National Airport. Some other flights are being diverted to BWI and Dulles nearby. Those people on that Flight 4965 ultimately got to where they wanted to go.

They were bused to the terminal and we have seen from a tower cam live video from that that the buses moved into the position and then they took those passengers to the terminal. We've also seen some flights departing now out of Reagan National Airport.

So it seems like this is winding down a little bit, although this did have a pretty big impact on a pretty big day for air travel. Saturdays are typically pretty large, and it happened at a pretty critical time at a critical spot at this place.

BROWN: Yes, I'm sure that that was an unnerving experience for those passengers. Pete Muntean, thank you so much.

And coming up this hour, convicted murderer, Robert Durst, reportedly hospitalized and on a ventilator after contracting coronavirus. Also ahead tonight, former Trump strategist, Steve Bannon staring down a possible criminal contempt charge for defying the January 6th Committee. Preet Bharara is live next with a look at the legal ramifications.

And the next hour, a top Nike executive tells "Sports Illustrated" he shot and killed a man when he was a teenager. The reporter who broke that story joins us live next hour. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM and we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:18:37]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: What's your message to people who defy subpoenas on the January 6th Committee?

BIDEN: I hope that the Committee goes after them and holds them accountable.

COLLINS: Should they be prosecuted by the Justice Department?

BIDEN: I do, yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: President Biden now openly endorsing prosecution of anyone refusing to cooperate with the January 6th Committee and that threat is about to get tested with Steve Bannon. He is staring down a potential criminal contempt charge for his defiance.

The one-time strategist to former President Trump will find out Tuesday just how serious the panel is, after its warnings. If committee members refer the complaint as expected, the full House will then vote and if the majority of members there agree, the complaint is referred to the Justice Department.

Bannon is relying on Trump's argument of executive privilege even though he was long gone from the administration before the insurrection. He is the only person close to Trump to openly refuse to comply so far. At least two Trump White House players are engaging with the committee, to use its wording.

The latest subpoena went to a former D.O.J. official, Jeffrey Clark on Wednesday.

CNN senior legal analyst, Preet Bharara joins me now to break it all down. He is the former U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York and the host of two podcasts, "Stay Tuned with Preet" and "Doing Justice." Great to see you, Preet, as always.

PREET BHARARA, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Good to be here.

[18:20:01]

BROWN: So look, you know, the obvious here is that time is of the essence for Democrats. This probe could take more than a year. If Republicans win back Congress in 2022, they might shut down the investigation. They probably would, right?

So I mean, look, if the referral makes its way to D.O.J., how likely is it that D.O.J. would then act in a timely manner?

BHARARA: Well, I don't think it will take a long time for D.O.J. to make a decision. This is not the most complex kind of case. It's not money laundering. It's not trafficking, it's not terrorism. It's a simple flouting of a subpoena based on no legal ground at all.

As you pointed out in the setup, Steve Bannon was not an employee of the government, certainly not the executive branch at the time of the insurrection, so he has no basis for asserting the privilege.

As people also may know, that kind of prosecution is very, very rare. It hasn't happened in a very, very long time. But I don't think it'll take a long period for the Justice Department to decide. I think they could do that in a matter of days or weeks.

BROWN: And there is this LLC memo at D.O.J. that refuses to bring contempt of Congress charges to executive branch officials if they defy congressional subpoenas. But, of course, with Steve Bannon, it's a little bit of a different case, right? Because he wasn't in the White House during the time in question, even though he is trying to play the executive privilege card.

BHARARA: Yes, it doesn't make sense legally, it doesn't make sense factually, and it also doesn't make a lot of sense optically. I mean, if Steve Bannon and others think that everything that happened on January 6th was good, and great, and kosher, and the people who engaged in that conduct, we love them, and they're heroes, and they should be propped up, then what does he have to lose?

And if it's the case that the former Acting Attorney General Rosen, testified before that panel, and could cooperate with that panel, it makes no sense as to why Steve Bannon cannot. And even though prosecutions of this kind are very rare as we discussed, if there was a case in which you would bring that criminal contempt power to bear, it seems to me Steve Bannon is the prime case for it.

BROWN: So I want to ask you about what we just heard there from President Biden speaking to Kaitlan Collins. Months ago, President Biden said that he would make sure his D.O.J. is independent from the White House.

But he just told Kaitlan Friday that D.O.J. should prosecute those who defy congressional subpoenas. After that, you had the White House Press Secretary playing a bit of cleanup, saying that, basically D.O.J. will make its own decisions on this.

But should the President, the head of the executive branch for which D.O.J. falls under be talking publicly about what D.O.J. should do in this investigation?

BHARARA: Now, he probably should not have and I think he probably thinks better of it. And the cleanup from the press person I think is probably consistent with what Joe Biden now thinks of the remark he made.

She also made clear that Joe Biden has repeatedly said at the outset of his presidency before that, even on the campaign trail, that he expects his Justice Department to be independent, and then the Justice Department spokesperson himself made a very strong statement, you know, quite strong to be within the same government as the President and said, we will make an independent decision about this. Full stop. Period.

So, you know, Joe Biden should not have said that, but I think he probably thinks better of it.

BROWN: But I am just trying to just to put this into context. If the President says something like that publicly, even though that the Press Secretary then comes out and says this and D.O.J. says that. Do you see that -- how that could have the effect or the appearance that he was trying to put pressure on his D.O.J.?

BHARARA: Yes, look, sure. That's why he shouldn't have said it. That's why I agree that he shouldn't have said it and that's why they walked it back. And that's why D.O.J. was very, very strong in saying, notwithstanding whatever the President said, we're going to make up our own minds. Yes, it was an unfortunate thing that he shouldn't -- he shouldn't have said.

But let's be clear and distinguish this from the kinds of things that happened under the prior administration where Donald Trump repeatedly -- to the extent he was making any connection there -- repeatedly said publicly things that he wanted the Justice Department to do. And not only that, as we're learning more and more, called people in the Justice Department to get them to do things up to and including overturning an election results in his favor.

So, I think Biden's heart is in the right place. His mind is in the right place. His tongue on one occasion today was not.

BROWN: Okay. I want to ask you about something on another front. A Federal judge is blasting the treatment of an accused Capitol rioter or being held at the D.C. jail. He is holding the jail in contempt along with the supervisors. The judge says the defendant who we are showing here needs surgery, and the jail refused to turn over medical records, which could be a Civil Rights violation.

Do you think this gives credibility to those who say the accused rioters are being treated unfairly and will only serve to galvanize those on the far right?

BHARARA: Well, I don't think we know all the facts. If it is the case that somebody who is being held in custody by the Bureau of Prisons or by some other facility and they are not getting proper medical care, that's wrong. It should be investigated. It should be looked into and it should be remedied and I'm sure the Justice Department will agree with that.

[18:25:08]

BHARARA: More nefarious is the insinuation by the judge in that case that he doesn't know, you know, implicated the idea that maybe this is so because of the particular crime with which that person has been charged, the particular conduct he was involved in, namely the January 6th insurrection. I don't know and have not seen any evidence to that effect, and people will talk about mistreatment in lots of different contexts.

If there's a connection between those two things, and absolutely, that's terrible and wrong, and gives grist to people who don't think those prosecutions are right. But I don't think we know all the facts about that. And these kinds of issues arise in many, many contexts and had been, unfortunately, in the news for years and years long before the January 6th insurrection and the criminal prosecution of anyone involved in that event.

BROWN: All right, Preet Bharara, thank you so much. BHARARA: Thanks, Pamela.

BROWN: The intraparty fighting among Democrats is getting ugly and unraveling into an all-out war with Senator Bernie Sanders going after Senator Joe Manchin in an op-ed published in his home state of West Virginia. Needless to say Manchin did not take it lightly. We're going to have more on that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:28]

BROWN: The Democratic Party is as divided as ever about President Biden's agenda, how much to spend and what to spend it on. And tonight, progressives are fuming as the White House signals it may drop a key part of Biden's climate agenda because of opposition from West Virginia Senator Joe Manchin.

This morning, the House progressives leader said negotiations are still ongoing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): We understand that we have to get all 50 senators on board and that Sen. Manchin, obviously, has a very big role to play on this. This isn't his committee. And so we are continuing to push for the strongest possible climate protections that will allow us to bring down carbon emissions and we're open to that negotiation as long as we have strong climate protections that bring down carbon emissions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: The Clean Energy Program in question aims to replace many of the nation's coal and gas fired power plants with wind, solar and nuclear energy. It accounts for roughly half of the $300 billion dollars allotted for climate change in the Democrats' $3.5 trillion spending bill.

Now, Manchin argues the program isn't needed because his state is already moving towards clean energy. But two West Virginia climate experts I just spoke to today said that it's not moving fast enough there.

One of them, James Van Nostrand, says, West Virginia has only gone from 95 percent to 91 percent coal-fired electricity in the last 10 years and that the climate program Manchin wants to cut is 'a no brainer in terms of what's good for the citizens of West Virginia and why I question why he's against it'.

So why does Manchin want to cut this specific program? To discuss let's bring in Bill Kristol and Laura Barron-Lopez. Great to see you here on set.

I'm going to kick it off to you first here, Laura.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Okay.

BROWN: Look, Manchin has acknowledged the impacts of climate change. He co-wrote an op-ed in 2019 in The Washington Post about just that. At the same time, we know he has been a big backer of the coal industry in West Virginia. What do you make of him wanting to cut this climate program that these experts say will help his State?

BARRON-LOPEZ: Right. Well, publicly right now what he's saying is that his view is that the companies are already doing this. But again, in order for the Biden ministration to meet that 50 percent or even close to cut in 50 percent carbon emissions, all climate experts, as I told you think that these steps need to be taken or else the country isn't going to reach that goal that Biden has said.

Now, Manchin has long been a big proponent of fossil fuel and keeping fossil fuels in the mix. So I think that's really what's at the heart here is that Manchin has long talked about all of the above energy, has long wanted to keep fossil fuel companies running and think that them along with natural gas can be a part of the mixture leading towards cutting carbon emissions.

But more and more the Democratic Party is saying that those fossil fuel energy options just aren't the way forward in order to reach the goals.

BROWN: Right. Like the experts I spoke to today said it's going too slowly given the urgent issue, the existential threat of climate change amid all of this, Bill, you have on Friday Sen. Bernie Sanders writing this op-ed in West Virginia's biggest newspaper, attacking Manchin essentially for standing in the way of the Democrats' human infrastructure plan Build Back Better.

Manchin quickly fire back writing, this isn't the first time an out- of-stater has tried to tell West Virginians what is best for them despite having no relationship to our state, I will not vote for a reckless expansion of government programs. No op-ed from a self- declared independent socialist is going to change that.

I remember when Kamala Harris, the Vice President went to West Virginia early on, he did not like that either. This is such an interesting dynamic play.

BILL KRISTOL, EDITOR AT LARGE, THE BULWARK: It is and I've got to say maybe they have some magic strategy I don't know about, but I would say just on the surface, Manchin like all these senators is kind of proud of being the Senator from the state, doesn't like senators from other states coming in to his state to tell them what to do, if they want to lobby him privately, if they want to work with him, that's one thing.

I've been working a little on the voting rights legislation and all the advice we got for whatever it's worth was - and Manchin has moved and now he's one of 50 Democrats sponsor of that legislation that will come up for a vote this week and you may even bridge the filibuster a little bit down the road. I think Chuck Schumer thinks on that. Everyone's been very careful. The way to get to Sen. Manchin is to have Republicans and moderate

say, you know what, Sen. Manchin has modified the original progressive bill, has made it responsible and get those kinds of articles in the West Virginia papers.

[18:35:08]

And it appeal to him.

Having Bernie Sanders come in and just lob this little grenade in his State, Bernie Sanders is from Vermont, Biden carried Vermont by 40 points in the presidential election, Trump - or 35 points.

Trump carried West Virginia by almost 40 points, so I just imagine, looks at that and thinks, are you kidding me, if you want me to come along on climate or on drugs or some of these things, have a senator from a Midwestern state write a friendly op-ed about how over the years I've worked with Joe Manchin and I really look forward to work with him further so we can come to a deal on one of these things.

And instead, it's the one guy in the center who is actually calls himself a socialist from Vermont kind of, as I say, lobbing this little grenade into the State. And I think it just gives Manchin a sense that, you know what, West Virginia is going to play fine, that he's not taking orders from Bernie Sanders.

BROWN: Yes. I think we were all waiting that, for that op-ed came out from Bernie Sanders for this fiery response from Manchin. It really was no surprise there.

But you have this discussion about this climate provision and whether it's going to be taken out and it sounds like the White House is going to follow that, according to our reporting from three congressional sources today that this provision will be taken out and I'm wondering if this puts the White House in a bit of a box or tough situation, given the fact that it's supposed to go to this climate convention very soon with top officials going there?

BARRON-LOPEZ: Yes. This is a big issue heading into the Climate Summit. So sources told my colleagues at Coleman that if this is ultimately cut, which again, it is looking like the clean electricity standard as it was originally framed as going to be taken out, the White House is trying to find other proposals or other mechanisms that can get to that 40 percent cut in carbon emissions or 50 percent cut in carbon emission.

So what else can they offer to Manchin, can they offer to these Democrats that are potentially skeptical of it? Because they can't walk into that Climate Summit and not have something that shows that the U.S. is committed to cutting carbon emissions by the percentage that the administration said that they would. Other countries have been very skeptical all along that the U.S. would actually follow through on this, given the past administration, given the fact that it's really difficult to find the consensus.

So it is going to be critical for the administration heading into that summit to have some kind of semblance of what exactly they're going to be offering here.

BROWN: So they're having to put that into the equation as well as they're trying to size all of this. You have this race in Virginia, the gubernatorial race. You have backed Terry McAuliffe, the Democratic candidate. What do you think is going to happen? It is a tight race. Terry McAuliffe is ahead of Republican Glenn Youngkin by five points. What happens there could really be a harbinger for what's to come for both parties in 2022.

KRISTOL: Yes, it could be and being Virginia that was so close to - half of Virginia at least is so close to Washington and it's probably a little more of a national race than a typical governor's race, which usually is pretty distant from what happens there. I think McAuliffe is going to win. I kind of do think he's three or five points ahead and that will stick.

But, of course, I was nervous after 2016 and 2020 that there might be a hidden Trump vote. Some of my neighbors, I mean, metaphorical neighbors and my little neighbors in Northern Virginia who were sort of historical Republicans who voted for Biden, they'd like to get back to the Republican Party. They'd like to tell themselves that Trump thing was kind of an aberration and now we've got a CEO pro business Republican who's here.

I do think there that Youngkin's unwillingness to ever confront the Trump lies, the election lies, this courting of Trump, it's going on to Seb Gorka show, all of the kind of ducking and weaving he's done to try to Trump people on board. I think ultimately that's going to stop a certain number of Virginians from going back to him.

And McAuliffe was a pro-business, pro economic growth, moderate Democratic governor, so I think he's a Democrat like Biden, who an awful lot of McCain, Romney Republicans can stick with. But we'll see, no one is quite certain what's the turnout for Democrats being - they can make it revved up if Trump's not on the ballot, can Republicans get revved up if Trump's not on the ballot.

It is a kind of interesting test if Trump's no longer president, how much is Trump still the issue in these elections.

BROWN: And we know that Trump has backed Youngkin. He has showered praise on him, so we're going to be watching this race closely for sure. Thank you both so much for coming on. Laura Barron-Lopez and Bill Kristol, we appreciate it.

Well, just days after being sentenced to life in prison for murder, Robert Durst has COVID-19. More on his condition next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:44:09]

BROWN: Convicted murderer, Robert Durst, who was the subject of the HBO docu series, The Jinx, is in the hospital with COVID. Durst attorney told the L.A. Times that his client is on a ventilator. On Thursday, Durst was sentenced to life in prison for the shooting death of Susan Berman in 2000.

CNN's Jean Casarez joins me now on the phone with more on this. So what exactly do we know about his condition, Jean?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Dick DeGuerin, who is the lead attorney for Robert Durst has just told me, CNN, that Durst was diagnosed with COVID-19 and this is ironic, because his sentencing in the murder trial from the murder conviction in Los Angeles just took place on Thursday. So he was diagnosed after that and from what I understand, Mr. DeGuerin told me that at the sentencing they knew something was wrong that Robert Durst looked horrible.

[18:45:05]

He had difficulty breathing. He had difficulty speaking. He told me that he was just worse than he had ever looked.

I can also tell you that the entire legal team is concerned, Dick DeGuerin told me that everyone is concerned for themselves for Robert Durst. And Mr. DeGuerin is very concerned for the deputy that was in close contact with Robert Durst who would bring him to court, who would just be with him at all times.

Now, so far Dick DeGuerin has tested negative for COVID and Dick DeGuerin is in his senior years also. But he's tested negative, but he is not going to the funeral of a friend this weekend out of caution, but they're just monitoring the situation and hoping for the best.

BROWN: If you would, Jean, remind our viewers of the scale of this trial and how it's captured national attention for years.

CASAREZ: Robert Durst has been in the news. And when we look at true crime, you think of Robert Durst. Although this is the first conviction he's ever had, but it started in the 1980s in New York, New York City, the Durst family, the billionaire family. Robert Durst was married to Kathie. And Kathie went missing in the early 1980s and no one could find her.

And so the spotlight was on Robert Durst and he became extremely paranoid that they were going to charge him with the murder. They didn't. But Robert Durst really led a life of evading law and going from city to city even disguising himself as a woman in Galveston, Texas and saying that he was in an altercation with a man that he lived with, it was a roommate. He killed him and actually dismembered him. A jury acquitted him of murder.

But then finally Los Angeles prosecutors when he was on the run from Houston to New Orleans, Los Angeles prosecutors caught up with him. They arrested him and charged him in the murder of Susan Berman, his best friend. But prosecutors believe the motive was that Susan Berman knew the truth that he had murdered his wife Kathie and she was just about to tell New York authorities who are reopening the investigation.

So finally a conviction sentencing on Thursday and now Robert Durst is extremely ill, we understand, with COVID-19. BROWN: Jean Casarez, thank you so much for that.

Well, health experts are now urging people who got the Johnson & Johnson COVID vaccine shocked to get a booster as soon as it's available. Dr. Peter Hotez joins me next to break this all down for us.

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BROWN: Did you get the J&J one and done vaccine? Well on Friday an FDA advisory panel voted unanimously to recommend boosters, but this time they're recommending all adults who got this vaccine should get boosters as soon as they're available.

Let's get right to it with Dr. Peter Hotez, Professor and Dean of Tropical Medicine at Baylor University. Dr. Hotez, both the Pfizer and Moderna boosters are being recommended for people over 65, people with underlying health conditions and people with high risk jobs. That is not the case for J&J, why is that?

DR. PETER HOTEZ, PROF. & DEAN, NATIONAL SCHOOL OF TROPICAL MEDICINE, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: Well, part of it, Pam, is because for the J&J vaccine, even though we're calling it a booster, it's not really a booster. It turns out, this was always a two dose vaccine, something that we've talked about all year.

When we looked at that early phase one, phase two trial data, it really needed two doses to get consistently high levels of virus neutralizing antibody for everyone and at that point, it was a really, really good vaccine, so there is a subtle difference.

With the Pfizer vaccine, for instance, there's clear waning immunity and you need a booster to restore that immunity. With the J&J vaccine, actually the vaccine immunity is not declining at all. It's staying very constant. It's just not at a high enough level. It's around 68 percent in terms of preventing hospitalization, according to Amanda Cohn with the CDC.

I think that was the number she said at the VRBPAC committee meeting. So the point is it's not really a booster, even though we're calling it a booster. It's a two-dose vaccine.

BROWN: But from what you just laid out, why did it take this long then for that to get approved for the second dose of J&J?

HOTEZ: Yes. I always thought this was a two-dose vaccine all along. I know the company had hoped that it could serve as a one dose vaccine from the simple standpoint that globally it could go much faster and spread and be delivered to many more people globally. So I think their intentions were good.

And they actually finally had phase three trial data for the two doses in September. And it was pretty stunning, it's over 90 percent protection. So I wish it was messaged a little differently. What I've been saying since the beginning, since January, is that the two mRNA vaccines were always going to be three dose vaccines based on giving the first two doses close together and the J&J was always going to be a two-dose vaccine, but anyway.

So in some ways, this is an auto correction of what probably should have been messaged months ago.

BROWN: And you mentioned the CDC official says that there's a clear need in some situations for individuals to mix booster shots. Under what circumstances would you recommend that to your patients?

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HOTEZ: Well, not very commonly. I don't know that I would routinely recommend booster shots. So for instance, if you got two doses of the Pfizer vaccine, my recommendation is go with the third dose, that's Pfizer. That's what I did. For the simple reason, there's going to be a lot more data collected on it and it works really well. Same with the Moderna.

In the case of the Moderna vaccine, actually, immunity is not really declining that much, so it's not like you have to rush out and do it. I think Rochelle Walensky, you said at one point, the CDC Director, Dr. Walensky said walk don't run.

With the J&J vaccine, I would say the default, the most common thing to do is get the second dose. The one hedge I have on that, I've been asked a couple of times of young women who are pregnant where the risk of getting thrombotic disease, clotting disease is higher and we know that's a rare complication of the J&J vaccine. Maybe in that case, I'd recommend going with one of the mRNA vaccines.

BROWN: Sorry to cut you off, Dr. Peter Hotez.

HOTEZ: I think the message that's not getting clear is that two doses of the J&J are good.

BROWN: Okay, wonderful. Thank you so much, Dr. Hotez. Again, great to see you.

A shocking admission tonight coming from longtime Nike's Jordan brand Chairman Larry Miller says he murdered someone when he was a teenager. It is a secret he has kept until now more on that ahead.

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