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U.K. Police Designate Fatal Stabbing of MP a Terrorist Incident; Bow-and-Arrow Attack Suspect Charged in Norway; The Future of Women's Sport In Afghanistan. Aired 1-1:30a ET

Aired October 16, 2021 - 01:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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ROBYN CURNOW, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Hi, I'm Robyn Curnow, thanks for joining me, you're watching CNN.

Just ahead, an act of terrorism: that's what the U.K. police are calling the murder of a member of Parliament.

And a small town in Norway rocked by violence. We'll explore the events that led to the bow and arrow that killed 5 people.

And protests across Italy, why some say a vaccine mandate for all workers is a form of discrimination.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Live from CNN Center, this is CNN NEWSROOM with Robyn Curnow.

CURNOW: It's 6 am in the U.K. and British police now say the fatal attack on a number of Parliament was an act of terrorism, MP Sir David Amess was stabbed on Friday. He's the second member of Parliament to be murdered in the last five years.

The longtime Conservative MP was in meetings with his constituents, at a church near London, when he was stabbed multiple times. Soon after a 25-year-old man believed to be a British national of Somali heritage, was taken into custody. Police say he's the only suspect.

Within the hours of the attack, they say their preliminary investigation pointed to Islamist extremism as a potential motivation. Nada Bashir joins us now.

What more can you tell us, Nada?

NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Robyn, the community here will be waking up to that troubling news, that this is now being treated as a terrorist incident. We are aware now that the police do suspect that he may have had motivations related to Islamist extremism.

This is particularly concerning to this close-knit community, who were particularly close with this MP. We've seen many people coming to leave flowers to share their sort of fond memories.

We saw many residents coming here late into the night, even up until 1 in the morning coming to leave these flowers, really troubled by the news that their local lawmaker was stabbed to death just in this church a few meters away.

But the police are still appealing for more information from people in the area. They have appealed those with CCTV footage or dashcam footage, that might provide some information on how this occurred, to come forward and speak to police.

But right now, the community and the country are still reeling from the shock of this troubling incident.

CURNOW: Also, of course, this is raising again issues of the safety of British members of Parliament, who typically interact very closely with their constituents.

BASHIR: Absolutely, Robyn, this is particularly troubling for those here. Amess was seen as a very fond member of the community, very engaged with the local community. These surgeries that local lawmakers hold are really a core part of democracy in British politics.

They hold these open discussions with their local constituents. The fact that this could happen in that sort of setting, is particularly worrying. And it comes just five years after the murder of Jo Cox, a Labour MP, who was shot and stabbed to death.

That has really raised concerns over the safety of British lawmakers in these sort of open forum engagements with local residents. Amess had expressed concerns sort of reflecting on the murder of Jo Cox. If I could just read, you a little bit of what he said.

He said, "Increasing attacks have spoiled the great British tradition of people openly meeting their elected politicians." He said he himself has experienced the sort of nuisances with local residents.

The fact that he had flagged these concerns was particularly worrying and will bring into focus the issue of lawmakers and their safety in the U.K.

CURNOW: Thank you so much for that update, Nada Bashir.

Amess was a practicing Catholic and a mass was held in his honor on Friday. Two priests spoke to CNN earlier on his faith and how will be remembered.

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REV. KEVIN HALE, PARISH PRIEST, LEIGH-ON-SEA: I think the feeling of all of us here is one of utter shock at the moment. We can hardly believe what's happened. David was a very familiar face here. He lived in the area, he was an MP for many, many years.

[01:05:00] HALE: And a great constituency man but, above all a, great family man, too, and a devout Catholic. He was known to us here because he was at mass in the local parish churches, a great supporter of any local endeavors and enterprises.

REV. JEFF WOOLNOUGH, ST. PETER'S PARISH: The church where Sir David has been cruelly murdered, is just a 5-minute walk from me. It was a Methodist church where he's been working for his constituency. I'm a Catholic priest.

So, he's a practicing Catholic, we need to say that. That's why I know him well because he has supported all of the Catholic clergy in our area for many, many years, not just us other denominations, people of all relations. He has been a great, great friend. And he's old school parliamentarian, you know what I mean by that?

He actually listens to people, sits down with them and he's paid the price for it today. He's been paying a price for being so open and generous with his time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CURNOW: For more, now, I'm joined by security and terrorism expert Glenn Schoen. He joins me from The Hague.

A priest bitterly saying he's paid the price for being an old school democratic MP. And the fact that this act of terror took place in the church, clearly, hitting home as well.

GLENN SCHOEN, TERRORISM EXPERT: Absolutely, this is horrendous and it's often the moderates that are being targeted, if we look at lawmakers and politicians in general, those representing the people, it's not just in the U.K. of course.

When you look at the United States, when you look at Germany, when you look at a number of nations around the world, we've seen lawmakers in various countries come under increased attacks. They're not alone; if we look at the whole COVID era, we've seen an increase, particularly on social media, of threats toward politicians but also journalists and virologists.

So, it's definitely a profession which also, of course, has an inherent vulnerability. You need to reach out, have public engagement, be on campaign. So, we're seeing that almost as a profession or a vocation, very much increased under threats in the past year or 1.5 years.

CURNOW: And in the U.K. there has been this conversation for five years, since Jo Cox, a previous MP, was also killed while doing work in her constituency. Even David here, called for more security or raised alarm.

There's a fine line between reaching out, isn't there, to the public and people who vote you in and also being wary of getting too close?

SCHOEN: Absolutely, this is unfortunately a danger inherent to the profession. When you look at sort of the security effort that's been put in and after Cox's murder, what happened was authorities in the U.K. were working on things in place from years ago due to IRA terrorism.

They look normally at the environment, the home of lawmakers, the workplace and then out in the public, the public domain. And, of course, with home alarms, the home aspect is being covered, Parliament, of course, has a special police director to take care of politicians while they are at work.

But then there's a whole public domain and the U.K. is not the only one struggling with this. There are several different aspects to security here that provide an extra challenge. One is the whole virtual demand the past few years, with social media attacks and the other component is that you need to leave a lot to the politicians themselves, how they behave, what rules they follow, advice you give them and whether or not they follow it.

So, it's a very complex environment in which to put a security operation that could really be effective.

CURNOW: Was this a security failure by the British intelligence services or the British police?

Because we understand that this man was Somali in origin but a British national. And he seems to have been able to carry out this attack without any sense of warning.

SCHOEN: No, you certainly can't say that it is because we simply don't know the circumstances yet. As we saw with Norway, sometimes they sort of come out of left field, the investigation will have to point out if there were any indicators, MI-5 or the place or other intelligence services should've detected and whether or not they could make any sense of them, as to what might happen or who might be targeted.

So, it's way too early for that. On the other hand, it does tell you the value of doing that and having a good operation in place.

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SCHOEN: We have had incidents prevented, not just in the U.K. but in other nations as well, over the years, where people were being targeted and the whole apparatus is in place.

Right now, I think we're just short on information on the exact circumstances. And I think law enforcement in other countries, particularly counterterrorism authorities right now, are really looking to the United Kingdom to provide this information fairly fast, to see were there indicators, particular drivers, things that other countries should watch out for, such as some kind of signal that may have come in recent weeks from terrorist leaders, to start activating these kinds of attacks.

CURNOW: You there in the Netherlands as, you pointed out across Europe, politicians have been threatened or worse. This is not just limited to the U.K., particularly with such divisive politics at the moments and also amplified by social media and the frustrations of COVID as well.

Do you think that these sorts of incidents could perhaps get worse?

SCHOEN: Yes. I hate to be alarmist, but of course, we have seen clearly an increase in the level of threats, if not the level of actual incidents. A recent report by a parliamentary committee in Germany show that, over the year 2020, there was an increase in total of about 1,500 threats against German politicians.

It was, about evenly divided between unknown, right wing and left wing. We've seen in several countries now, the U.S. being a notable example worldwide, where actual incidents of plotting are being detected.

So clearly, particularly because of COVID-19, the right-wing extremist threat has increased but also the threat against scientists or those who believe in it.

And, of course, a lot of politicians stand for particular policies here. So they've been attacked because of their stance. Yes, the increasing threat level is pretty clear; whether or not that's going to translate into more incidents over this in the coming years, necessarily, let's hope not.

But it certainly is a concern. Of course, you are in the U.K.; this is a whole new concern if you will because the question here is whether this person was radicalized or whether there was a jihadi agenda behind the attack, in which case, we're looking at a concern that other people might see this as an example and someone to emulate.

CURNOW: That's a good point you make. Thanks so much. Always good to get your analysis, Glenn Schoen, appreciate it.

SCHOEN: Thank you.

CURNOW: Now Westminster appears united in grief over this killing.

Former prime minster Theresa May, said, "It was a tragic day for democracy. My thoughts and prayers are with David's family."

The foreign secretary Liz Truss said she was "devastated." She calls Sir David "a lovely man and a superb parliamentarian."

And the tributes crossed party lines. Labour opposition leader Keir Starmer says "Let us come together in response to these horrendous events. We will show once more that violence, intimidation and threats to our democracy will never prevail over the tireless commitment of public servants simply doing their job."

The tributes didn't end there. Here's what we're hearing from other British politicians.

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DAVID GARSTON, COUNCILLOR, SOUTHEND-ON-SEA: David was a very difficult figure to miss, if I can put it that way. When he walked in the room, you knew he was there. He knew most people anyway.

But he always had so much to tell, so much or talk about. He was really interested in the welfare of people as well. And walking out with him very regularly, you didn't get very far, because he knew so many people, what organizations they were involved with, very often what their troubles were that he'd been able to deal with for them.

And he had such a tremendous memory, but he really just loved people.

TOM TUGENDHAT, BRITISH CONSERVATIVE MP: For many of us representing their community as their person in Parliament it's a huge honor. It's about championing a place and people that you think are great, otherwise you wouldn't do it.

And for David it was about making sure that the people in his community got the best representation, the best arguments, the best case made for them and what they needed every time he got the chance to do so. And you only need to look at his speeches in Parliament to see that he made use of every second that he had.

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TUGENDHAT: And he championed, very, very strongly his community.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CURNOW: And the Speaker of the House of Commons tweeted this earlier, saying flags have been lowered, after the news of the killing of Sir David Amess. Lindsay Hoyle said he was praying for the slain lawmaker's family, friends and colleagues.

Another story we're following here at CNN, Norway is searching for answers as well, after a violent and deadly bow and arrow attack. Coming up, what police are now investigating as a possible motive.

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CURNOW (voice-over): Gunfire ringing out in Beirut, following the worst violence Lebanon has seen in more than a decade. Gunmen fired off round after round after Friday's funerals for at least six people killed the day before.

That's when someone opened fire on Shia protesters, who demanded the dismissal of a judge in charge of investigating the massive blast at Beirut's port; 30 people were injured, leading to fears that Lebanon could slide again into civil war.

The army said 19 people were later arrested. A top judicial association now says the judge will stay on in the job.

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CURNOW: And an ISIS affiliate says it is behind yesterday's mass murder in an Afghan mosque in Kandahar. Warning, what's some of you're about to see it is graphic. We can't independently verify the claims.

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CURNOW (voice-over): But ISIS-K says the carnage you see here is its doing; 2 suicide bombings killed at least 32 people when they detonated at the city's largest Shia mosque. This is the second week in a row ISIS-K has claimed responsibility for a deadly bombing during Friday prayers.

The U.N. secretary general said the perpetrators must be brought to justice.

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CURNOW: And the suspect in the deadly bow and arrow attack in Norway has been charged with five counts of murder. Investigators now say mental illness may have been behind the rampage, which left five people dead, three wounded. While the motive was still unknown, Melissa Bell has the latest on the investigation -- Melissa.

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MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A chilling warning posted to Facebook in 2017.

ESPEN ANDERSEN BRATHEN, ALLEGED MURDERER: I come with a warning.

BELL (voice-over): Espen Andersen Brathen, saying those who wanted to make amends still could.

Fast forward four years and Wednesday night, just after 6 pm, Brathen, a Danish and Muslim convert, began his rampage here inside the supermarket. An off duty police officer was wounded before he went off, carrying a bow, his arrows and two other weapons, although police will not say what kind.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's tired and mentally ill. So he can't be doing more now. so he's in an institution with police.

BELL (voice-over): Shortly after leaving the supermarket, Brathen was intercepted by police but escaped after shooting arrows in their direction.

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BELL (voice-over): Only after that did the killings begin.

BELL: It was on this street more than half an hour after his rampage began that Brathen was finally apprehended. He's now been charged with five counts of murder.

BELL (voice-over): Brathen who was known to authorities for his radicalization, has now been sectioned in a secure health care unit. There is much that is idyllic about Kongsberg, a quiet, affluent suburban town, just over 50 miles outside of Oslo.

And in this town, where everyone pretty much knows everyone else, people are now waiting for those killed on Wednesday to be officially identified.

TORIE ERHTEN (PH), LONGSBERG RESIDENT: It's surrealistic. Yes. We live in a safe, small community and it's hard to believe that someone can be so disturbed.

BELL: But that shock and grief is being felt well beyond the limits of this town. As the Norwegian king, King Harald put it, Norway is a pretty small country and when Kongsberg is hit, the entire nation is with it -- Melissa Bell, CNN, Kongsberg.

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CURNOW: And Italy's COVID green pass is now mandatory for all workers. Anyone on a payroll, in the public or the private sector, must have a green pass that shows proof of vaccine status or a recent negative COVID test; 81 percent of the eligible population is already fully vaccinated.

More than 1,000 people protested against the pass in Rome on Friday, saying it restricted their civil rights.

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FLAVIA BORELLA, SUPERMARKET WORKER (through translator): How do I feel?

I feel like a person who has been robbed of the first right of a human being, that of work. Since I was 16 years old, I have always earned a salary, first for my parents, now for my husband and my son.

Now the state tells me I no longer have the right to work. Italy used to be a country founded on work. And now it is not anymore.

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CURNOW: And we're following it developing story out of Bali, a 4.8 earthquake has struck the Indonesian island; at least 3 people have died. Authorities say several buildings have been damaged. Rescue efforts are now underway to find people still trapped in the buildings.

We'll continue to monitor that story and bring it to you, as soon as we get any more information.

And also, coming up on CNN, after the Taliban takeover, many female athletes believe they have no future in their sports in Afghanistan. We speak to some of them.

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CURNOW: When the Taliban regained power in Afghanistan, thousands of desperate people tried to leave the country. Among them, female athletes, who believe they have no future in their own homeland.

Well, Don Riddell caught up with some of those who made it out safely but fear for the teammates left behind.

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DON RIDDELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): All over the world, women and girls play sports. And professional leagues in tournaments are starting to attract serious investment. Recently cricket lawmakers even change its terminology from batman to batter to make it more inclusive.

But following the Taliban takeover in Afghanistan things are going backwards there fast.

KHALIDA POPAL, FOUNDER, AFGHAN WOMEN'S NATIONAL FOOTBALL TEAM: We have really fought so hard to earn the name on the jersey, now we are afraid of having that uniform at home.

I've been calling them and telling them to burn down your uniform.

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POPAL: I think try to remove anything that you have from the national team so they don't identify if they come to your house.

RIDDELL: Over the past 20 years, girls and women in Afghanistan have played in countless sports and since 2004, the country has seen a steady rise in female Olympians.

FRIBA REZAYEE, AFGHAN SUMMER OLYMPICS: My participation in the Olympics inspired hundreds of other girls to join other sports and play other sports, not only martial arts. But you name it they started joining because this was a pathway to freedom and liberty for women's rights.

RIDDELL: But everything changed in August when the U.S. and its allies withdrew their forces after a 20-year war. The Taliban rapidly took control and there are desperate scenes as thousands of vulnerable citizens scramble to evacuate. Those that remained are now fearing the worst.

POPAL: We thought that we have people who have are back. But now our players are totally helpless and we stood up in the media outlets and said the Taliban they are killing people they are our enemy.

SHABNAM MOBAREZ, FORMER CAPTAIN, AFGHAN WOMEN'S NATIONAL FOOTBALL TEAM: It's heartbreaking for me because my teammates, I know them as very brave women. But this is something that they support on everybody, we are suffering

as a team and suffering on behalf of all my sisters and they are not able to use their words right now and use their voice. So I try to be their voice as much as I can.

RIDDELL: How long might this period last do you think?

Any idea?

MOBAREZ: I have no idea but I really hope that this is a bad dream and it's a nightmare and then we all wake up and everything is good. That's what I hope for but I know that this is an era that is going to last a long time.

SHABNAM RUHIN, AFGHAN WOMEN'S NATIONAL FOOTBALL TEAM: It's horrible because the women in Afghanistan hoped all the energy to have a better life and it makes me so sad because they destroyed everything.

MOBAREZ: We have big, big, big dreams for this team and we really wanted to just be united and represent Afghan women to the outside world. And show them that Afghan women can also play football and Afghan women could also have an education.

RIDDELL: The hope was that sports would bring new freedoms to the women of Afghanistan but is looking more and more likely that the next generation of young girls will never get to see those dreams realized.

RUHIN: It was not just for playing football, it was more, it was to make a symbol for freedom for the girls, the next generation to support them to have a better than us.

MOBAREZ: That girl that started playing football five years ago was dreaming big about making it somewhere in the football world. She's not allowed to do that anymore.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CURNOW: Thanks so much for watching, I'm Robyn Curnow, "TECH FOR GOOD" is next.