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January 6 Committee Chairman Does Not Rule Out Trump Subpoena; Senate To Vote This Week On Election Reform Bill, Havana Syndrome Victims Talk About What They Have Endured. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired October 17, 2021 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:25]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: As many as 16 American missionaries, including several children, kidnapped in Haiti.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who is not vulnerable at this point in the country? And everything is so unpredictable with the lack of security.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Jury selection set to begin in the racially charged trial of three men accused of killing Ahmaud Arbery.

PAGE PATE, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think this is one of those cases where it's going to be won or lost in jury selection.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: The more people we get vaccinated, the less likelihood is there going to be another surge as we go into the winter. When you're in the family unit among people who are vaccinated, I think you should just enjoy the holidays as best you can in the family spirit.

NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Walking arm in arm with his wife, former President Bill Clinton leaves a California hospital.

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: I think he's lucky to leave the hospital. A 75-year-old man can easily die of sepsis.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM on this Sunday. In Haiti this evening, a desperate search for clues and a growing sense of urgency tonight over a mass kidnapping of Americans, including children. A source tells CNN that the FBI and State Department are working around the clock to secure their release, but officials admit, they don't know where the kidnapping victims are being held.

A Christian ministries group in Ohio confirmed that 16 missionaries from the U.S. and one Canadian have been taken hostage. Five of those hostages are children. The aid group did not comment on ransom demands or negotiations, but minutes ago, we just learned that the group was in a single vehicle when they were captured yesterday, after visiting an orphanage north of Port-au-Prince.

Since July, kidnappings have tripled in Haiti. It's also reeling from political turmoil since its president was assassinated. A source in Haiti's security forces blames gang members for this kidnapping and hundreds of others.

Jacqueline Charles is "The Miami Herald's" Caribbean correspondent. She has spent a considerable amount of time in Haiti.

Jacqueline, thanks for joining us. If this is indeed a criminal gang motivated by money rather than politics, is the ransom demand essentially nonnegotiable?

JACQUELINE CHARLES, CARIBBEAN CORRESPONDENT, THE MIAMI HERALD: No, the ransom demands usually are negotiable. I mean, what usually happens in these circumstances is these gangs, regardless of their motivation, they put out a ransom demand and that's where the negotiations begin. Contrary to what a lot of Americans believe, the FBI doesn't go in and pay a ransom and they don't go in and release you.

They assist you in terms of negotiating the ransom. And in many cases, in terms of the Haitian national police, they are unable to free people. There are very few cases that has happened, but where people usually held are so out of reach, out of the police, that they just can't access these neighborhoods or these cells where people are being held.

BROWN: Right. Tell us a little bit more about the process because, as we just reported, U.S. officials are working very hard right now to figure out where they are. And they're not able to find them. What's going on behind the scenes right now, you think?

CHARLES: I mean, you know, what we are hearing in Haiti, that it's believed, you know, that this is a gang, 400 Mawozo. Their M.O. is to kidnap people who are traveling in cars or buses. They kidnap the busload, the carload, they issue a ransom amount. But, you know, I've been covering Haiti now, you know, for almost two decades, and what we've seen with this wave of kidnappings is that the requests usually boils down to money.

And it's going to be up to the individuals to see how much to bring that down. The problem is, if you start paying these large amounts, then the gang starts to believe that they can access or they can get this amount with the next victim and the next victim. I mean, there's a lot of headlines about these individuals, but we have to be clear is that up until now, there have been scores, hundreds of patients who have fallen victim to kidnapping gangs, and they've, you know, been, you know, impoverished by this phenomenon.

BROWN: Right. I mean, that's the question first of all, if you pay the ransom, wouldn't that just encourage more of this kind of behavior? And how ruthless are the gangs if their demands are not swiftly met?

CHARLES: Well, I have to tell you, I've reported stories about people who have been killed, people who have been raped. Those of us who cover Haiti on a regular basis, we take a lot of caution in even reporting stories about people when they are kidnapped, when they are being held by gangs, because we don't want to somehow influence, you know, their fate because you just don't know.

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BROWN: That is just so frightening. Is a police or military rescue possible?

CHARLES: Well, I have to tell you, I've been in touch with the Haitian National Police, and up until recently, they told me that they have no confirmation, you know, of this kidnapping. It's not unusual. Often when these kidnappings happen, individuals don't go to police to file a formal complaint. We hear it through word of mouth, through social media. In this particular case, because we're talking about Americans and Canadian citizens, their families or organizations will contact the embassies, which will then contact in our case in the U.S. the FBI, which then gets them in contact with the family or the organization, and assist them once -- if a ransom amount has been requested. But I can tell you sometimes it's days before relatives even know where someone is kept or what the request is.

BROWN: Jacqueline Charles, thank you for giving us that really important perspective of what is going on on the ground there with these gangs in Haiti, as we know these 15 people are missing, these missionaries that were in Haiti, U.S. citizens, including five children. Thank you so much, Jacqueline. Actually 16 Americans, I should say.

It has been nearly one month since Gabby Petito's remains were found in Wyoming and police still can't find her fiancee, Brian Laundrie. He disappeared days after coming home from a road trip without her. And as Gabby Petito's family struggles with heartbreak, they are also trying to turn their tragedy into something to help others. The family hosted the first fundraiser today for a foundation named in her honor and our Jean Casarez was there.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Pam, there were a lot of people here today. This was the very first benefit for the Gabby Petito Foundation. And the foundation is going to be dedicated to finding missing people. Also, awarding scholarship and helping those that are not in the healthiest relationships.

You know, we're on Long Island, New York, and this is the community that Gabby was from. These people know her. These people know her family. And I spoke with someone that said that he knew Gabby, and that she was such a kind person, that she always wanted to look for the best in someone.

Now people have a passion for Gabby Petito. This investigation. The questions that are not answered. But they all have their individual reasons for being here, too. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REGINA ANNUNZIATA, ATTENDING BENEFIT CONCERT: I didn't know Gabby personally, but she was a young, beautiful girl, she had her whole life ahead of her. And I just wanted to come and support her family, the foundation, and, you know, hope that something positive can come from this.

MAUREEN FONTANETTA, ATTENDING BENEFIT CONCERT: You think of your own children and what happened to Gabby was such a terrible thing. And I think with the parents, and the stepparents also, what they're doing with this foundation to help other people, you know, that lost their children or the children are missing or any family member. It's important.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: The investigation does continue in this case. The FBI is the lead investigator and Brian Laundrie has not been charged in any capacity with Gabby Petito's disappearance, but her family was in Wyoming this last week, and her father tweeted out at the end of last week something from the Grand Tetons.

We want to show everybody that. He says, "I now know why you came here, #gabbypetito has a beautiful view from now on. Love you and miss you." And that is Jenny Lake in the Grand Tetons that you're looking at.

You know, ironically, today, the first day of the benefit for the foundation, but it is also one month ago today that Brian Laundrie's family went to law enforcement, saying, we can't find our son -- Pam.

BROWN: Jean Casarez, thank you so much.

Well, tomorrow jury selection will begin in the trial of three Georgia men charged with killing Ahmaud Arbery. The trial will be a test of the justice system and how far the United States has really come in its racial reckoning.

It's hard to forget that horrific video of what happened to Arbery, often referred to as a modern-day lynching. It is graphic, but also important evidence, so let's take a look at some of the evidence here. The cell phone video. The 25-year-old was out jogging in a neighborhood near Brunswick, Georgia. Cell phone video from that day in February 2020 shows him being chased down by men in a truck, shot and killed.

One of the attackers is Travis McMichaels. He faces a series of charges including malice and felony murder, aggravated assault, false imprisonment and criminal attempt to commit false imprisonment. His father, Gregory, faces similar charges. Both men have pleaded not guilty, claiming they were conducting a citizen's arrest and acted in self-defense. More than two months passed before they were taken into custody.

And then there's a third man that was part of all of this. The third man facing charges is William Roddie Bryan, Jr.

[19:10:03]

Bryan also pleaded not guilty. He's the man who recorded that video of Arbery's death and allegedly hit Arbery with his truck when he joined the McMichaels in chasing him. Relatives of the Arbery family and the community of Brunswick gathered Saturday to call for change.

There has been important progress since Arbery's death. The state of Georgia has overhauled its citizens' arrest law, with the governor calling Arbery a victim of a vigilante style of violence. And for the first time, Georgia now has a law on the books against hate crimes. But his family wants to see convictions of all three men and justice for Ahmaud Arbery.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THEA BROOKS, AHMAUD ARBERY'S AUNT: That without you guys, none of this would be possible. Because it takes us staying together, because we're greater together. We are greater together. I'm going to say, we are greater together. We're so much greater together.

WANDA COOPER JONES, AHMAUD ARBERY'S MOTHER: It's been really a long, hard road, but I'm thankful that I will be there, that every day his name is called in court, I will be there.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And of course, our show will stay on top of this important story.

And still to come this hour, the January 6th committee set to hold Steve Bannon in criminal contempt for refusing to testify. Alice Stewart and Maria Cardona live in the studio to discuss.

Also ahead tonight, former president Bill Clinton finally out of the hospital after an infection spread to his bloodstream.

And then, a spate of so-called Havana Syndrome attacks hits embassy staff in Colombia. I'm going to speak to a former CIA agent who says silent attacks in Russia forced him to retire early.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. We'll be right back.

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[19:15:56]

BROWN: Former president Bill Clinton is out of the hospital after a health scare that started last week. He is recovering from a urinary tract infection. After six days of treatment, he walked out, slow and steady, while linking arms with Hillary. The former president shook hands with staff at the UC Irvine Medical Center and he gave a thumbs up to reporters.

The hospital released a statement saying, Clinton's fever and white blood cell count are back to normal and that he will return to New York to finish his course of antibiotics. The hospital said it was honored to treat him and will keep monitoring his progress.

And in Virginia, Democrat Terry McAuliffe is hoping to reclaim the governor's seat in just a few weeks, but he is facing a stiff challenge. Fatigued and apathetic voters from fellow Democrats. So in these final days, he is harnessing the power of the party's rising stars.

CNN's Eva McKend is in Fairfax where a McAuliffe rally ended just a short time ago.

So, Eva, what is the message being sent today?

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Pam. With an eye towards the midterms, the message here is what happens in Virginia has implications for the whole country. That's why we see the McAuliffe campaign tapping on Stacey Abrams to inspire Virginia Democrats, to wake them up, to get them excited, to even vote early this week, which they can do here in this state, all in effort -- a critical effort that they see in this off-year election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STACEY ABRAMS (D), FORMER GEORGIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: I'm here from Georgia. We don't have an election this year for the governor, but I know what happens here matters across this country. You see, when you decide who's going to lead, you people decide whether they're going to follow. And here in Virginia, you have the chance to set the stage. Do we go in the direction of the future or do we regress to a path that is dark and bitter and mean and does not believe in all of us?

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

MCKEND: Now for his part, McAuliffe's Republican opponent, Glenn Youngkin, he has said that he doesn't need national Republicans to swoop in and campaign with him, to act as surrogates, so we're not going to be seeing that from the Youngkin team. But we will see more of this from the McAuliffe campaign.

President Biden expected to be back out on the campaign trail this week, and former president Barack Obama, he'll be in Virginia on Saturday -- Pam.

BROWN: All right, Eva McKend, thanks so much, live for us from Fairfax, Virginia.

Well, he is at the center of a subpoena fight for his role in the Capitol insurrection. A closer look tonight at Steve Bannon, the former Trump White House chief strategist, still very loyal to his old boss. Plus, is a subpoena heading to Mar-a-Lago next? What one of the two Republicans on the January 6th panel says about ordering testimony from former President Trump.

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BROWN: Steve Bannon is refusing to comply with a subpoena from the House committee investigating the Capitol insurrection. The question now, will that land him in jail? The committee will move this week to hold him in criminal contempt. Then the Justice Department must decide whether to bring actual charges.

Bannon was fired as Trump's chief strategist way back in 2017, but he didn't exactly move on. CNN's Tom Foreman explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He is not ready to speak to Congress about the violence of January 6th, but Steve Bannon is talking plenty. On his daily podcast, whipping his followers into a frenzy.

STEVE BANNON, HOST, "THE WAR ROOM PODCAST": Elections have consequences. Stolen elections have catastrophic consequences and that's what we're seeing in this country right now. And we need your blood to boil. We need to be in a situation you're not going to back down, OK?

FOREMAN: He's done it all along. He appeared to confirm reports that just days before the insurrection, he was on the phone with Donald Trump, discussing how to kill the Biden presidency in the crib.

BANNON: Yes, because it's legitimacy. 42 percent of the American people, 4-2 percent of the American people think that Biden did not win the presidency legitimately. We told you from the very beginning, just expose it. Just expose it. Never back down. Never give up, and this thing will implode.

FOREMAN: Promoting the big lie of election fraud fits Bannon's long- standing affection for radical right-wing theories and his apparent appetite for conflict.

BANNON: If you think they're going to give you your country back without a fight, you are sadly mistaken.

FOREMAN: Take his fascination with the book, "The Fourth Turning," which argues every 80 years or so, cataclysmic upheavals are necessary to political and social realignment.

BANNON: Turnings are like the seasons. Every turning is necessary.

FOREMAN: Bannon was so taken with the idea, he made a movie about it, savaging liberals, blasting traditional government, and as one film critic put it, pushing a clear message.

[19:25:12]

ANN HORNADAY, FILM CRITIC, THE WASHINGTON POST: Bring on the apocalypse. There's an almost fetishistic desire to see everything blow up. It's almost like he's inviting a cleansing fire to just raze the edifice, raze the institutions. I think it's that dramatic.

BILL MAHER, HOST, REAL TIME WITH BILL MAHER: Steve Bannon is over here. Steve Bannon. FOREMAN: Bannon's turns in the spotlight have not always thrilled his

most famous boss, who was reportedly annoyed when Bannon showed up on the cover of "TIME," which Trump clearly craves. He was pushed out of Trump's immediate orbit, but never far away.

MAHER: I would love to know what advice you would give to Donald Trump if he didn't leave even after he lost. Because I saw Hillary Clinton --

BANNON: You're obsessed with this.

MAHER: I am obsessed --

BANNON: You're obsessed with it. Why do you think he's not going to leave?

MAHER: Wait a second.

(CROSSTALK)

BANNON: I know he's having the time of his life.

MAHER: Because he's an insane narcissist.

FOREMAN: And since the uprising, Bannon has been firmly in the losing candidate's corner, trotting out guests to insist the riot was the work of Antifa and undercover federal agents.

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER TRUMP LAWYER: 226 Antifa members were tasked with making that -- what should have been a peaceful protest -- a riot.

FOREMAN: And insisting prosecutors are dead wrong to say these are Trump's and his people.

BANNON: Either they're totally incompetent or they're lying to you, right? They're either totally incompetent or they're lying to you. They're either totally incompetent or they're lying to you. Pick them.

FOREMAN (on-camera): There are no facts to back that up, but listen to Bannon's podcast, watch his interviews, and you will see he has very little use for facts, unless they support this notion that America as we know it must end, so America as he would have it can begin.

Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And joining me now to discuss, our political panel, Alice Stewart, a Republican strategist and former communications director for Senator Ted Cruz, and Maria Cardona, Democratic strategist and CNN political commentator. Together, they make up the podcast, "Hot Mics: From Left to Right." You'll want to listen to that and listen to this discussion, because we have a lot to talk about.

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, we do. BROWN: Alice, I'm going to kick it off with you, talking about Steve

Bannon. If he continues resisting the subpoena that was issued to him, should the Justice Department pursue criminal charges?

STEWART: Well, first and foremost, let it be known, on the record, that he will continue to resist testifying. If there's one thing he can say -- and they will continue to raise money for legal fees and they will continue to fight this with every fiber that they have. I think we need to get to the bottom of January 6th. We need to get answers. And whether it's with subpoenas of some nature or coming forth before members of Congress and doing so, we need to get the answers.

I think it's critical that people get past January 6th at least from the Republican standpoint and move on to the issues that are important to us. But it's going to pretty clear that between Steve Bannon and the other top Trump officials they're going to fight any request to testify and put this behind us, but that is just going to keep this out there and keep this center of mind when we could be focusing on really critical issues that voters hear about as we head into the midterms. The longer they resist, the longer this is topping the headlines.

BROWN: And of course, like you said, Steve Bannon is going to fight this and there's the question of whether that's just going to galvanize the far right even more on this. The committee chair Bennie Thompson has signaled, Maria, that he's open to the possibility of issuing a subpoena for Trump. Here's what Congressman Adam Kinzinger, one of just two Republicans on the committee, said about that today. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL): Just speaking quite honestly, if we subpoena all of a sudden the former president, we know that's going to become kind of a circus. So that's not necessarily something we want to do upfront. But if he has pieces of information we need, we certainly will.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Is that a good idea to wait to subpoena Trump, or do you think the committee should just go ahead with it, given the time constraint at play here?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think that they need to look at what's coming and what is necessary. I agree with the congressman. It will be a circus if they subpoena Trump, but at the same time, I think it will also signify how serious this committee is to, as Alice says, get to the bottom of January 6th.

Look, we know that Steve Bannon is going to continue to resist. We also know that when and if they subpoena Donald Trump and it should absolutely be on the table, he's going to try to resist with everything that he has, too. And so the Steve Bannon thing is becoming a circus. The Donald Trump thing is certainly, will be a circus once that happens, but I think it will signify and prove that this is an effort, a bipartisan effort to get to the bottom of January 6th of what happened, because it put our democracy and it's continuing to put our democracy in such peril.

[19:30:00]

I agree with Alice, the more that they resist on this, the more that this is going to be front and center, and I don't think that that is a good messaging point for Republicans.

And in addition to that, Donald Trump and Bannon and all of those guys continue to say that January 6th was nothing. It was a walk in the park.

Well, look, if they have nothing to hide, then come and testify.

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: But keep in mind, there are rational Republicans out there that do believe that we have free and fair elections, that do believe that Joe Biden is the duly elected President and do believe that January 6th should not have happened. We should have certified the election results and they do not want to have this be the topic of conversation.

And there are rational Republicans that say that January 6th is not what we need to be focusing on as we head into the midterms, especially with all that is going on with the Biden administration, with the crisis at the border. Now, we have the shipping problems, we have bad economic numbers. We have Afghanistan.

Those are the things that we need to be focusing on and rational Republicans are not looking at the past of January 6th, they are looking at the future. So while members of the Democrats in Congress want to have this conversation, rationale Republicans are out there on the campaign trail.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: You say rational Republicans, what do you mean?

CARDONA: Who are they?

STEWART: These are republicans, as I said, that do believe that we have free and fair elections.

Look, the more we even question if we should question our electoral process, that's an affront to our democracy and we do not even need to be having these conversations in the first place. And there are large majority of Republicans who are focusing on reassuring people that we need to go out and vote.

We do have free and fair elections, and that's what conservatives are doing.

BROWN: So, this brings me to my next point, because I do want to get to this because this actually ties in to what you were saying, I want to get your reaction. You have Senator Schumer scheduling a vote next week on the party's voting reform bill. This is a compromise bill of sorts that is different than For the

People Act. There is no sign at this point that they're going to get the 10 Republicans they would need to get this passed. Do you think that President Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris need to be sounding the alarm more? Are they meeting the urgency of the moment when it comes to voting rights and democracy?

CARDONA: Do they need to be sounding the alarm? Hell, yes. I mean, yes. Our democracy is in peril. Our democracy is hanging by a thread. They are focusing on this.

I think they do need to do more --

BROWN: But are they doing it enough?

CARDONA: I think they need to do more publicly. I know they're doing a lot behind the scenes. I think they do need to absolutely do this more publicly in order to make sure that the American public understands the urgency of this. Because there is so much happening every single minute of every day that it is tough for the American people to focus on what is important, especially when everyone is trying to live their lives and make ends meet during a pandemic and during, you know, what still has been a difficult economic recovery.

And so the democracy part of this, though, is absolutely an urgent piece of this. And look, Donald Trump is the reason why this democracy is hanging by a thread. And the more -- the more -- hang on, the more that Republicans -- you say there are rational Republicans out there -- focused on talking about how the election were fair, there are not enough of them.

STEWART: Look, let me just say this, with all due respect to my friend, Maria here, we are not in peril. Our democracy is not in peril.

CARDONA: Oh, Alice.

STEWART: We need to reassure Americans that our election process is free and fair, and the last thing we need to do is light our hair on fire about democracy in peril and federalize our elections, which is exactly what you and our Democratic friends want to do.

CARDONA: That's what we don't need to do.

STEWART: We don't need to federalize our elections.

BROWN: Well, let me ask -- because this actually, this bill is a compromise bill. Senator Manchin has been working on this. He is going to vote for this, apparently. It does include voter I.D. laws. Why wouldn't Republicans get behind a bill like this?

STEWART: Because we don't need to nationalize and federalize the elections. Elections are run state by state. We all know this. This is schoolhouse rock 101. Each state runs their own elections. They need to be overseen by the state election process, and not from the Federal level. I do support voter I.D. I think that is critical to making sure that

we have one person, one vote. That's a critical opponent. But having Federal control of the election is not the answer.

BROWN: And I know what you're going to say, right? And that is, all of these states have --

CARDONA: Yes. All of these states have candidates, Alice, who have said, if they had been in power, they would not have certified this election.

What happens if all of those people win in 2024 -- or 2022 and 2024? What if all of those rational, commonsense, thank goodness, Republicans in the 2020 election did not come forward and stand up against the Donald Trump and the Steve Bannons and the Rudy Giulianis? What if they had said, you know what, Donald Trump is right. This election is not fair and free. I'm not going to certify it.

That is how close we came to losing our democracy. Our democracy is in peril, and it is in peril because people like Donald Trump and people like Steve Bannon and people like Chuck Grassley, who just stood up next to Donald Trump, without the backbone to say what this man is doing is dangerous.

[19:35:17]

CARDONA: We have way too many Republicans that are hell bent on standing next to Donald Trump because they are so afraid of not doing that, that that continues to put our democracy in peril.

BROWN: And this comes in -- quickly because --

STEWART: Republicans in Georgia, Secretary of State and Governors on down, Republican election officials stood up and certified those election results --

CARDONA: I know. That's right.

STEWART: In the face of Donald Trump.

CARDONA: Yes.

STEWART: And as well in Arizona. We had a lot of Republicans that helped certify the election, so it is really not accurate to say --

CARDONA: What if they hadn't? What if they hadn't?

STEWART: That they are all bowing down to Trump.

CARDONA: And what if the others that get elected next time around don't do it? They are running right now, Alice. They are running on the ticket and Donald Trump is supporting them.

BROWN: You have Kari Lake in Arizona.

CARDONA: That's why it is so dangerous. Exactly. BROWN: I mean, the bottom line is that this CNN poll from last month

showed that 52 percent of Americans don't have confidence in the electoral system, and that is really a stunning number and that's why this discussion was so important.

CARDONA: It's dangerous.

BROWN: Thank you both for coming on.

CARDONA: Thank you, Pam.

BROWN: A mystery illness hitting embassy staff in Colombia right before the U.S. Secretary of State is set to visit, so-called Havana syndrome now believed to be the cause.

My next guest says the scars from a similar silent attack forced him to retire early from the C.I.A. He is going to share his story in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:41:06]

BROWN: A bipartisan group of senators is pushing the State Department to do more to combat what's been dubbed Havana syndrome. It includes naming a new point person to tackle this mysterious illness that's made diplomats and spies overseas really sick.

They say it's become a serious National Security threat and causes all the symptoms you see right here on your screen. Everything from headaches to nausea to changes in brain tissue.

Several of the original victims from Havana recently spoke to NBC about what they've endured.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All of a sudden, with no reason or explanation, I felt like I was being struck with something. It was gripping. It was like I had been seized by some invisible hand and I couldn't move.

It's very easy for people to be dismissive and say, but you look fine, but the reality is I'm not. And I don't think very many of us are, and we just want to have our lives back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's the great loss, as you get all of these people who have so much to offer, who are not going to be the same. It's not just us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Former senior C.I.A. officer Marc Polymeropoulos has also suffered from awful affliction. He is the author of "Clarity in Crisis: Leadership lessons from the C.I.A." Marc, thanks for coming on and sharing your story. You have been an outspoken advocate for those hit with the silent

attacks that ultimately forced your retirement after 26 years of service. Tell us more about what you went through, first in Russia and the lingering effects.

MARC POLYMEROPOULOS, FORMER SENIOR C.I.A. OFFICER: Sure. Well, first of all, thanks for having me on. And I'm really gratified to see kind of others are speaking out now, because it's been a really long journey for a lot of people.

But this all started for me in December of 2017 on a trip to Moscow. I woke up in the middle of the night in a hotel room with incredible vertigo, with a splitting headache, with tinnitus, which is ringing in my ears.

Now, look, I've been in Iraq and Afghanistan for years on end. This is the most terrifying experience of my life. And ultimately, it's led to this four-year journey, where still to this day, I still have a splitting headache every day.

BROWN: That just sounds awful. And what sort of treatments have helped?

POLYMEROPOULOS: So, it's been extraordinary. I've managed after a long struggle, frankly, with the U.S. government, with the C.I.A. to get me treatment. I've gone to Walter Reed's National Intrepid Center of Excellence. That's one of the world's leading traumatic brain injury programs, and they have saved me. Pamela, I'll be honest.

I was there for a month in January of this year. I would go back several days each week even now. It's everything from, you know, real medicine, you know, taking a look at what they can do to make you feel better in terms of pharmaceutical options, but also, you know, the softer side of healing.

We do meditation. We do art therapy. You do yoga. I mean, it's -- they've treated the special operations community and the U.S. military for two decades after the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. They know what they're doing on TBI and they are really helping me and a lot of others who have been afflicted by Havana syndrome.

BROWN: So do you know anything more about your circumstances? How you got Havana syndrome? And what it's actually done to your body long- term? I mean, as you see these symptoms that are on our screen right here. I mean, there are changes in brain tissue compared to healthy adults, that kind of thing. Tell us about that.

POLYMEROPOULOS: Well, look, this is the scary part. You know, during art therapy, several of the patients, you know, put -- you know, created a painting and they called it a gunshot. It was a black canvas and a red splotch, and that signifies that we wish we had been shot because it really is the silent invisible wound.

But what does it mean for the future? We don't know. Well, you know, I've had four years of headaches, and I tell people when they come back after they've been affected by this, that you need at least a solid year of treatment before you can get better.

Now, ultimately, you know, there is some hope. You know, I think the doctors are understanding much more as years go by on the things that we have to do, but it's pretty scary. Because, again, it's this silent wound.

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POLYMEROPOULOS: And, you know, there's a mental health aspect to this, too, because we just -- you know, we don't have that physical wound where you can get cured.

So, you know, the future remains uncertain.

BROWN: Absolutely, and like the woman we saw in that clip, you know, she said, I look normal, so people think, what's wrong with you, right? I look like myself, when really, there's a lot going on with mental health aspect of this.

Why has the U.S. had such a hard time, quickly, getting to the bottom of this?

POLYMEROPOULOS: Sure. So, I think -- you know, obviously, this is a unique situation. In the beginning, the C.I.A., the State Department, and the U.S. government really dismissed this. And that certainly did not help many of us.

But things have changed. Now, with the new administration and with the new C.I.A. Director, Bill Burns, who I really credit in a significant way of taking this more seriously, along with allies on the Hill in the Congress and Senate who really pushed legislation to treat us.

But I think that we're past the point now of the idea that we're all making this up. This is real. Senator Collins has stated this is an act of war. You know, we have to get to the bottom of this, as we're treating our personnel, the attribution part, the C.I.A. investigation is absolutely critical because we can't allow this to keep happening.

As you see, it's gone on now, it's still happening now, the events in Colombia in the press recently, and so, we've got to get to the bottom of what's happening because this is really having -- it is creating a really negative effect on our overseas personnel.

BROWN: All right. Marc, thank you so much for sharing your story on the show. We appreciate it.

POLYMEROPOULOS: Thank you so much.

BROWN: A princess, fashion icon, activist, mother -- Diana was the most famous woman in the world.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The world gets its first full glimpse of the fairy tale princess.

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BROWN: Sally Bedell Smith, author of "Diana: In Search of Herself" is live next to talk about our brand-new series about the people's princess.

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BROWN: Prince Charles and Lady Diana Spencer, their fairytale wedding in 1981 captivated the world.

Tonight, on an all-new episode of the CNN Original Series "Diana" the story behind her famous wedding dress.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The best place for Diana to start was with the creation of the wedding dress to end all wedding dresses.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: David and Elizabeth Emanuel set up their fashion business in London's Brook Street in 1977, all their designs are individual. If you have a dress made here, you won't see anyone else wearing the same thing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was in the studio doing a fitting and the phone rang. It was Diana. She said, "Would you do me the honor of making my wedding dress?"

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the look which persuaded Lady Diana to choose the young couple as her designers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can imagine every designer wanted to do her wedding dress. I think it was kind of a decision she was going against the grain. She just put her foot down and said no, I want them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: News of Lady Diana's visit spread quickly. Lady Sarah Spencer was there to give her sister opinion of the wedding dress.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Joining us now is CNN contributor and author of "Diana: In Search of Herself," Sally Bedell Smith.

So Sally, I mean, everyone was so enthralled, like watching this wedding on television. Was their marriage though the reality? Was their marriage doomed from the start?

SALLY BEDELL SMITH, CNN CONTRIBUTOR; I am afraid to say yes, it was. Even the Archbishop of Canterbury who famously said, "This is the stuff of which fairy tales are made." Even he said later on that he knew there were problems. He said in their premarital counseling, Prince Charles was depressed, but he thought that Diana could grow into it. They were so -- they were 12 years apart in age, but that was the

least of it. They had no interest in common. He loved fox hunting and pheasant shooting and she hated them. She loved Elton John and Abba. He loved Shakespeare and the opera. It was just a very wide gulf and of course, he was still in love with Camilla Parker Bowles.

BROWN: Right. You have this sort of love triangle. He was in love with her and then you have the marriage with Princess Diana. What were the interactions like behind the scenes?

SMITH: Well, they had been socialized together when they were going out and then she knew -- she knew he had had an affair with her, and so Diana confronted him and he said oh no, well, she was -- you know, she was just -- he was sort of vague about it.

And then she found a bracelet that he had made for her, which had a little engraved disc that said GF, which stood for "Girl Friday," which was his pet name for her and quite understandably. They had a huge fight.

He told her finally that Camilla had been his most intimate friend, but that he was breaking it off and he was going to be faithful to her, and he actually did.

But Diana, as she says in the episode tonight was obsessed with Camilla, totally and probably for good reason.

BROWN: I think I would be, too, if my husband was doing that.

Quickly, has anybody in the Royal Family expressed regret that he didn't marry Camilla the first time around? Of course, now he is married to her.

SMITH: Yes, I don't think there has ever been regret. When they first met in 1972, they were unmarried. He was madly in love with her. He fell in love with her right away. She was in love with Andrew Parker Bowles, whom she eventually married. He wasn't ready to get married. She also had a history, she had been having an affair with Andrew Parker Bowles for six years, and the Royal Family didn't want a woman with a history.

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BROWN: Sally Bedell Smith, thank you so much.

Don't miss a brand-new episode of "Diana" tonight at 9:00 Eastern, only on CNN.

Thanks for joining me this evening. I'm Pamela Brown. See you again next weekend.

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