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FBI Swarms DC Home Of Russian Oligarch & Putin Ally; All 21 On Board Survive Plane Crash In Texas; Alderman Brian Hopkins (D-Chicago) Discusses Law Enforcement Defiance Of Vaccine Mandate; New York City Council To Remove Thomas Jefferson Statue; Trump Predicted Removal Of Founder Father's Statues In 2017. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired October 19, 2021 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[14:30:11]
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Here's some breaking news. Right now, the FBI is at the Washington, D.C., home of Russian oligarch, Oleg Deripaska. Authorities also searched a New York location connected to this Russian billionaire.
This is a Putin ally who was previously sanctioned by the Trump administration for Russia's 2016 election interference.
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Shinon Prokupecz joins us now.
So what are you learning about this search?
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME & JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: So the search is relating to an investigation out of New York. The FBI there in New York and U.S. attorneys in Manhattan have been investigating Deripaska for quite some time.
Today, obviously, taking this step of conducting this search warrant at his home in Washington, D.C.. And we're also told that they're searching a location, a property that is related to him in New York City.
Of course, many people who remember the Mueller investigation have heard about Oleg Deripaska. He was a figure in that investigation.
Sanctioned in 2018 as part of Russia's interference in the U.S. elections, his bank, back in 2018. So they sanctioned him for that.
Also the Treasury Department saying he was investigated for money laundering and illegally wiretapping a government official.
The other thing with Deripaska that people will remember is his ties to Paul Manafort. Of course, he was running the Trump campaign at one point, indicted by the Mueller team.
There were allegations that Manafort passed him campaign polling data. That was something that the Mueller team was investigating.
It's not entirely clear to us what the FBI here is looking for and what this investigation is about.
It could be related to sanctions and that he violated those laws. Despite being sanctioned, he continued to own property, do other kind of business in the United States.
So this could be -- that could be what this is about.
But of course, the FBI and the U.S. attorney in New York not commenting on the investigation.
But it is significant that he does have these connections to Russia's president and, obviously, his connections to the former head of the campaign for the former president, Donald Trump.
BLACKWELL: All right, Shimon Prokupecz, thank you.
Texas officials say this is a miracle, a cause for celebration. Everyone survived this plane crash.
Look at this. And 21 people, including a 10-year-old, were on board when the aircraft attempted to take off at an airport in Waller County, Texas.
CAMEROTA: Let's get to CNN's Rosa Flores for the latest.
Rosa, how did they survive?
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, that's the big question, Alisyn. I just got off the phone with Texas DPS that tell me what they're doing right now is they're monitoring the situation.
You can see the lights flashing in the distance. They say that the fire is completely out, but they're monitoring for hot spots.
And Texas DPS saying that this is the best possible outcome in a situation like this. Nobody died. All the passengers were able to get out of the plane.
Here's what we know from authorities. So 18 passengers, three crew members were on this plane earlier today, heading to Boston.
And this plane actually never took off. It rolled down the runway. And about 500 feet later, according to officials, this plane struck a fence in a field. It got disabled, and it went up in flames.
Now, according to officials, all the passengers were able to get out of this plane safely, including a 10-year-old. Officials say that these individuals were stunned.
First responders arrived, and they put out the fire with foam and other apparatus.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TIM GIBSON, DIRECTOR, WALLER-HARRIS EMERGENCY SERVICE, DISTRICT 200: They were able to get on scene, make a good assessment quickly. We did find all passengers had self-extricated. We assisted them from the field where the plane ended up.
Any time you have a plane that doesn't make a landing on the runway like it should, we're always expecting the worst but hoping for the best. And today, we absolutely, positively, got the best outcome we could hope for on this incident.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FLORES: Now, officials say that two individuals were transported to the hospital. All of the other individuals headed back to the airport.
The FAA and the NTSB will be investigating.
And, Alisyn and Victor, I have to point out, from talking to Texas DPS, they tell me there were two pilots and one flight attendant. So that one flight attendant did a heck of a job getting all of these people out of the plane -- Victor and Alisyn?
CAMEROTA: Yes, he or she really did. I mean, they always say safety is our first priority but you never think you're going to have to evacuate 21 people while the plane is smoking. That's incredible.
BLACKWELL: Let's put the -- look. Look at this. I heard you, Alisyn, from your office when you heard that all 21 people survived this. Because you just don't expect it when you see this type of wreckage.
CAMEROTA: Yes. I hooted with excitement and shock.
[14:35:01]
Also, Victor, I don't know if you know this. I'm a bit of a nervous flyer, so I take --
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BLACKWELL: I didn't know that.
CAMEROTA: I take great comfort that you can survive something like that.
BLACKWELL: Well, a miracle and cause for celebration, indeed, as we're hearing from Waller County.
Rosa Flores, thank you for that report.
CAMEROTA: OK, meanwhile, we're seeing vaccine showdowns involving law enforcement across the country. In Chicago, more than a third of the city's police force is defying the city's protocols. So what next?
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[14:40:06] CAMEROTA: COVID vaccine requirements are pitting city leaders against the police departments.
This week, new protocols start in Seattle, Baltimore, and Los Angeles, which could drive large numbers of officers off the force unless they agree to weekly testing.
In Chicago, more than one-third of the police force defied the city's requirement that they report their status by last Friday's deadline.
And that means as many as 4,500 officers could find themselves without a paycheck now.
According to the mayor, a small number of officers have already been disciplined and sent home without pay.
With us now is Brian Hopkins, a Chicago city alderman.
Alderman Hopkins, thank you so much for being here.
Do you know how many Chicago police officers as of today are off the job?
ALDERMAN BRIAN HOPKINS (D-CHICAGO): It's less than a hundred. We haven't been able to engage in any sort of mass discipline or mass termination.
We're obviously doing this one by one. You know, they have due process rights. So we have some idea how many didn't comply with the mandatory disclosure. And you mentioned, it's about a third.
But I have to point out that, of that number, a significant portion of them are, in fact, vaccinated. Just because they didn't go online to the data portal to disclose their vaccination status, doesn't mean they're not vaccinated.
We're hearing stories that many of them made a point of not disclosing as an act of defiance because they're so angry at the mayor, at the way this has been handled.
CAMEROTA: Yes --
HOPKINS: They just wanted to make a point and not do what they're told to do.
CAMEROTA: This is what is so confusing, Alderman Hopkins. They are vaccinated. By the way, this is not a vaccine mandate. They can choose not to be vaccinated. They would have to submit to twice weekly testing.
But all this was on Friday was declaring your status. Are you vaccinated or not? Sometimes your co-workers would like to know if you're vaccinated or not.
So, you're saying that a significant number are vaccinated but won't disclose it? I mean, why? How does that make sense? HOPKINS: It doesn't really make a lot of sense.
But when you put it in the context of the low morale in our police department, even the anger and resentment that they feel directed towards this mayor, at the way they feel they're disrespected by her, it starts to make a little more sense when you look at it as a labor action, which it really is.
The union is the one that's leading it on behalf of the police officers.
But it is still a mandate. Even though we're not really enforcing it and we're giving police officers this option to test out of the mandate, it is a mandate.
It's just a question of how we enforce it, how we phase it in over time, how do we deal with people who are just noncompliant and are willing to risk potentially losing their job, losing their pension as a police officer over a vaccine.
It really doesn't make sense. But like any classic labor dispute, when you get to this point, emotions run so high, bitterness and anger take over for logic, and then you wind up in this situation we're in right now.
CAMEROTA: But if what you're saying is that this is a protest vote, basically, from a lot of police officers because of how the mayor has handled it, how should she have handled it differently?
HOPKINS: Well, our mayor is not a very good negotiator. That's not in her wheelhouse. She's very caustic and it gets personal right away.
We went through a very bitter teacher strike a couple years ago, and at the end, the teachers wound up getting everything that they had asked for.
She could have given it to them at the beginning and avoided everything that transpired.
Similar situation is here. We announced this vaccine mandate, requirement, three months ago.
We had three months to work through all the details, you know, to treat all the different bargaining units within city government with respect and dignity and then try to address the concerns.
We didn't do that. Instead, we waited until the last minute, imposed a deadline, and said you're fired if you don't do it.
That's just a terrible approach. And it breeds resentment. It breeds anger. And that's where we're at right now. So, we have to hit the reset button.
The point that I have been making lately is, you know, the stick hasn't worked. Let's use the carrot. Let's try to incentivize behavior right now. Let's offer the police department something tangible, something
positive to get those remaining officers.
Which, again, in my estimation, we're talking about somewhere around 1,500 to 2,000 police officers out of a force of 11,000 who haven't been vaccinated.
We should be doing some hand-holding here and giving them the support they need, answering their questions, and getting them vaccinated rather than threatening them and browbeating them.
CAMEROTA: Is the mayor open to your suggestion for a different approach?
HOPKINS: We haven't seen a softening yet. I think she's aware of the situation we're in right now in terms of the potential impact on public safety.
We're already short police officers. We're down, you know, probably about 20 percent from where our peak staffing levels were a few years ago. So we're short patrol officers.
[14:45:04]
We're -- we've been unsuccessful, like jurisdictions all across the country, at recruiting young people to choose careers in law enforcement. We have retirements happening at an accelerated pace.
We can't afford to lose a thousand police officers. We can't afford to fire a thousand police officers over an impasse like this right now.
So, I think the mayor is aware of that. She's in an untenable position, you know, as far as trying to bargain her way out of this. But frankly, she put herself in that position.
CAMEROTA: So, very quickly, you think crime rates are going to go up starting now?
HOPKINS: They already are. We had a police officer who was shot in my neighborhood yesterday. Fortunately, the bullet, it was a glancing blow, but it was off of his head.
It hit him in the cheek. An inch in a different direction would have killed him, over a relatively minor incident that just escalated.
We're seeing that sort of thing happening where offenders are emboldened. They're firing at police officers. And they're engaging in crimes in neighborhoods that never saw the levels of crime that they're seeing right now.
The entire city is on edge right now. And to tell my residents that we're going to lose a thousand police officers at a time when we need a thousand more, it's not a welcome message while people are concerned about rising crime.
CAMEROTA: Alderman Brian Hopkins, thank you very much for sharing your very important perspective.
HOPKINS: Thank you, Alisyn.
BLACKWELL: A statue honoring Thomas Jefferson has stood inside the New York City council chamber for more than 100 years, but now, after a 20-year fight, it's going to be moved.
CAMEROTA: OK, lots going on today. Here's what else to watch.
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[14:51:24]
CAMEROTA: A statue of Thomas Jefferson at New York City hall will be removed before the end of the year, marking the end of a 20-year battle.
After hours of debate, the city's Public Design Commission voted unanimously on Monday to remove the statue from the legislative chamber.
BLACKWELL: One council member said she felt deeply uncomfortable working with the likeness of a slave owner nearby.
CNN's Jason Carroll is live outside of New York City hall.
What is the plan for the statue?
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's a good question, and the short answer is unknown at this point where the statue is actually going to end up.
But one point is clear, the vote is in, and the Jefferson statue is out. The vote coming from the Public Design Commission, which basically oversees all of the public art throughout the city, some 700 pieces of art.
This is the body that took the vote yesterday, 8-0, basically, on behalf of the city council's black, Latino, and Asian members.
Again, as you guys say, the statue has been inside the council chambers here at city hall since 1915 for more than 100 years.
But over the course of the past several years, there's been a real debate about Jefferson's history. Most people know him as one of the Founding Fathers, the author of the Declaration of Independence uniting the colonies.
But he was also a slave owner throughout his life. He owned some 600 slaves throughout his life. Also at one point, wrote about white superiority over blacks.
And so given the totality of his history, that's the reason why the council finally deciding, saying, look, this statue needs to be removed.
But as you can imagine, there's been a lot of debate, a lot of passionate feelings on both sides of this issue.
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DANEEK MILLER, (D), NEW YORK CITY COUNCIL MEMBER: That statue can no longer exist in those chambers. Its time has come.
JOSEPH BORELLI, (R), NEW YORK CITY COUNCIL MEMBER: I wish this would go to a referenda or polling, because I think the majority of New Yorkers would disagree with this.
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CARROLL: So as you can imagine, after the George Floyd protests, there has been a lot of debate throughout the country about removing statues.
Not just here but a number of areas. We saw the statue of Robert E. Lee taken down in Virginia, for example.
As for this statue of Thomas Jefferson, again, the counsel deciding it needs to be removed. But by the end of the year, that's when a decision will be made exactly where it ends up.
Back to you -- guys?
CAMEROTA: Really interesting, thought-provoking topic.
Jason Carroll, thank you.
Confederate generals, are they in the same category in terms of statues as Founding Fathers?
BLACKWELL: No. I think it's cleaner cut when you're talking about the Confederacy, right? Because in addition to owning slaves, they launched a war and fought a war to divide the country, right?
CAMEROTA: Yes.
BLACKWELL: So while there maybe some people who are divided on Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, the other slave owning signatories of some of the founding documents of this country, the Confederate generals should be a different question.
CAMEROTA: Yes. But in general, how do you feel about applying a 2020 lens to the 1700s?
BLACKWELL: I think, first, I think the conversation's important because this has been a 20-year fight. Right?
When this started, there was -- it was kind of dismissed out of hand, no, we're not moving this statue. But I feel like it's appropriate if we still have to make laws under that statue.
[14:55:00]
And from what I understand from the commission, they're moving it to a public place. This is not revisionist history.
CAMEROTA: Yes --
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CAMEROTA: They're not destroying the statue.
BLACKWELL: Yes, they're moving it.
CAMEROTA: Apparently, for the 1900s, it was already in the governor's room. It was already in a less prominent place in the 1900s.
BLACKWELL: Yes.
CAMEROTA: Then it was moved to their chamber.
But you may recall that former President Donald Trump, who likes nothing better than a culture war, warned of this very thing back in 2017. Here it is.
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DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So this week, it's Robert E. Lee. I noticed that Stonewall Jackson is coming down. I wonder, is it George Washington next week? And is it Thomas Jefferson the week after?
You know, you really have to ask yourself, where does it stop? Are we going to take down -- are we going to take down statues of George Washington?
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TRUMP: How about Thomas Jefferson? What do you think of Thomas Jefferson? You like him?
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TRUMP: OK, good. Are we going to take down his statue? Because he was a major slave owner. Now we're going to take down his statue.
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TRUMP: So you know what? It's fine. You're changing history. You're changing culture.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: I mean --
BLACKWELL: What do you think?
CAMEROTA: Well, I think that -- I think part of the reason it is hard for many Democrats and even Independents, as we saw in the last election, to go along with President Trump.
Even when he says something that they agree with. Because that was the same speech where he called neo-Nazis very fine people.
BLACKWELL: Yes.
CAMEROTA: So in other words, even if he had a legitimate point, it gets buried because he then, during Charlottesville, called neo-Nazis very fine people.
So I think that some people agree with that. And I think it's a legitimate conversation.
BLACKWELL: What do you think about the 2021 lens on that period in history?
CAMEROTA: Look, I don't even like the 2021 lens being used on the 1980s. OK? If you ever saw my hair in the 1980s, you would understand why.
I think we're in a new era, and we should start the conversation now and not hold everybody in the 1700s and earlier responsible for how we feel now. Our values have changed.
BLACKWELL: OK.
CAMEROTA: We'd love to hear your thoughts. You can find us both on social media.
All right, the first of two high stakes White House meetings is underway right now as the president makes a final push to close the deal on his ambitious social and economic agenda.
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