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Anti-Vax Protesters Confront Parents & Kids as They Walk to School; Judge: UNC Can Keep Factoring Race in Admissions Process; Haitian Gang Demands $17 Million Ransom for Missionaries. Aired 3:30- 4p ET

Aired October 19, 2021 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

MIGUEL CARDONA, U.S. SECRETARY OF EDUCATION: Stopping that division that we - that you showed me there, and that we see in different parts of our country. Schools unite folks, education unites our country.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Yeah, but you know that right now there's just so - it's so vitriolic, there's so much culture war stuff, including with curriculum, as you know. One last question, quickly. If the FDA approves vaccines for the five to 11 year olds as they're expected, will COVID vaccines be mandated for public school attendance, for that age group?

CARDONA: You know, those decisions on vaccination requirements are state decisions. The federal government - I don't have a role in vaccination mandates. But what I will tell you, as I said earlier, we know what works.

We know that when children are protected with the vaccine, they're less likely to have serious symptoms of COVID-19, and we know that spread is less. So I encourage all who are eligible to get vaccinated, to help not only protect yourself but to protect your community. We will bounce back from this, and we will build back better.

CAMEROTA: Secretary Miguel Cardona, thank you for your time.

CARDONA: Thank you.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Haitian kidnappers are demanding $17 million in exchange for the 17 hostages, $1 million each. Sixteen of those hostages are Americans. We'll tell you the latest on how the FBI is trying to free them.

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BLACKWELL: The Haitian gang that kidnapped 17 missionaries, 16 of them Americans, one Canadian - is demanding $17 million for their release. Haitian officials say they're in contact with the kidnappers, and they know where the hostages are. And FBI agents, we know, are now in Haiti assisting with the investigation and the release of those hostages. Garry Pierre-Pierre is a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist and the

Founder and Publisher of "The Haitian Times." Sir, thanks for being with me. Let's start here with what's been happening in Haiti. Six hundred - more than 600 kidnappings in Haiti this year, that's according to a human rights group in Port-au-Prince. Up 300 percent, mostly Haitians, but what does this kidnapping tell us about the climate - what is happening in Haiti?

GARRY PIERRE-PIERRE, FOUNDER & PUBLISHER, HAITIAN TIMES: Thanks, Victor, for having me. So I think what this represents is a total breakdown of the rule of law in Haiti, where essentially the gangs have (ph) taken control. They have gotten emboldened and they feel like there's no limit to what they can do.

They first started attacking Haitians, and then Haitian-Americans, and now they are going after large group of white Americans who they see as high value - they could ridiculous sum of money for their release. And so we - Haiti has been at this, Victor, for quite some time - since 2018 Haiti has been in a virtual lockdown, and then we've seen the situation worsen. And with the state being unable to do anything about it, and here we are.

BLACKWELL: So, tell us about this group, 400 Mawozo, what do you know about them? And $17 million to fund what?

PIERRE-PIERRE: To line their pockets, that's essentially what it's been about - it's about making money. They feel that the state is corrupt, the private sector is corrupt. One thing we have to understand that these gangs were really organized, were by political parties in Haiti and the private sector to sow terror (ph).

They had their own in fighting (ph) and they used the gangs as shock troopers (ph). And these gangs now feel like they don't need to be somebody's pawn, they can be the king themselves - and they have been playing the role of kingmaker.

And essentially, what these groups are about - they're all about the same thing, they just operate in (ph) different areas. For instance, the 400 Mawozo is - operates out of the northeast corridor of Port-au- Prince the capital city. So if you want to go to the northern part of Haiti, you have to cross that intersection and that's very dangerous. And their MO is largely going after a large number of people as opposed to individuals.

BLACKWELL: So if their goal is not - although you said they had their origins in political parties, it's not political now. How often do these hostage situations end with the releasing of the hostages? I guess I could answer it in the inverse, are - do they often end fatally?

PIERRE-PIERRE: Very few, very few. I have never heard of a case that the person was shot dead, or was killed. The motive, principally, is money. And I know many contacts, many friends who have been kidnapped and the relatives got the money together and sent the money to Haiti, and they were released. They know that, but now they're dealing with a different situation

with the FBI and the U.S. government, whose model is not to negotiate with terrorists of any sort. And so it'll be interesting to see what happens in this case.

BLACKWELL: So, is there is any corollary? Any history with negotiating with the Haitian government, now that we know the FBI is in communication with the group - they know where the hostages are?

PIERRE-PIERRE: Well, I mean, the Haitian government itself has negotiated with these terrorists, if you want to call them that - we call them gangs, but they are really terrorizing the country and they have been for quite some time.

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So just on Sunday the prime minister negotiated with them and they didn't hold up to their part of the bargain. What he wanted to do - he wanted to head over to the grave of the founder of Haiti independence, Jean-Jacques Dessalines, and it was a routine thing that heads of states have done regularly over the centuries. And so they asked the gang, they give the money, not to disrupt the situation. But the prime minister had to flee, OK, because (inaudible).

And on top of it, one of the gang leaders, OK, Barbecue as he's known, Jimmy Cherizier, went wearing his best Sunday whites and laid a wreath at the tomb of the country's founder. So that means, in a symbol - a very strong symbol of who's in charge.

BLACKWELL: Yeah.

PIERRE-PIERRE: We are -

BLACKWELL: Yeah, it's interesting -

PIERRE-PIERRE: - in charge.

BLACKWELL: - that the prime minister then has to ask for permission to move freely about the country there. Garry Pierre-Pierre, thank you so much.

PIERRE-PIERRE: Thank you, Victor.

CAMEROTA: Well, despite accusations of discrimination, a judge has ruled that the University of North Carolina can continue considering race during its admissions process. We have 2 to 4 Things, legal addition next.

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CAMEROTA: Time now for 2 to 4 Things legal edition. A federal judge ruled that the University of North Carolina did not discriminate against applicants during its undergraduate admissions process. This ruling stems from a 2014 lawsuit that alleges UNC used race to intentionally discriminate against certain applicants.

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The judge wrote that the university's admissions program withstands strong scrutiny and "while no student can or should be admitted to this University, or any other, based solely on race, because race is so interwoven in every aspect of the lived experience of minority students, to ignore it, reduces its importance and measure it only by statistical models as -" students for fair admissions have done " - misses important context."

BLACKWELL: All right, joining us now is CNN Legal Analyst and Civil Rights Attorney Areva Martin. She is also the author of a new book, "Awakening: Ladies, Leadership, and the Lies We've Been Told." A plaintiff group (ph) here. Areva, welcome - in New York.

AREVA MARTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I know.

BLACKWELL: Great to have you here.

CAMEROTA: Great to have you.

MARTIN: In-person. Absolutely.

BLACKWELL: So, let's talk about these plaintiffs, they are going to appeal the decision. They hope that a more conservative Supreme Court will side with them, what's your take on this?

MARTIN: I think this is a huge decision, and we should say that this plaintiff group, they've sued other universities. They sued the University of Texas, and in 2016 the Supreme Court withheld again, the Texas' admissions policies that allowed them to consider race - not as the only factor or the sole factor, but as one of many factors.

And what we know these universities do is they consider grades, they consider extracurricular activity - you know, test scores, socioeconomic background, and a litany of other things.

So I think this decision is huge, we know the University of North Carolina, like so many have historically low admissions rates for minority students - particularly African-American students, and this allows this university to continue to admit students - students of color, that reflect more what the demographics are of that state and of that university.

CAMEROTA: OK, let's move on to this really heartbreaking case of Jelani Day. He was an Illinois State University grad student. His body was found in the Illinois River amid, "unusual circumstances."

But the LaSalle County coroner still has not released the cause or a manner of death. And just for context, his body was found before Gabby Petito's, I believe, and he was reported missing before Gabby Petito. So these sort of happened in parallel, but we don't have answers about what happened with him.

MARTIN: Yeah, Alisyn, these stories are so heartbreaking. And one thing we have been talking about a lot with respect to Gabby's case is, you know, missing white women syndrome. And how when white women go missing they get so much media attention, and there's so much attention - even from law enforcement, different agencies get involved in trying to find that missing white woman, and the same doesn't happen for African-American, for Latinx, for Indigenous people who go missing.

And this is just one of those heartbreaking stories of a young Black man who went missing, his family is begging and pleading for the FBI and other law enforcement agencies to get involved. And hopefully by you all covering this story, and other media outlets, they will get the help that they need to find answers to what happened to their son.

BLACKWELL: Yeah, let's actually listen to Jelani's mother after his funeral.

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CARMEN BOLDEN DAY, JELANI DAY'S MOTHER: Jelani could have been anybody's son, he could have been anybody's brother, he could have been anybody's nephew, your cousin - but he was my son and I want to know what happened to Jelani. So I need the state attorney to do what he needs to do to get the FBI involved and find out what happened to my son.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Yeah, and you know, as we've covered this - none of these mothers want people to stop searching for answers in the Gabby Petito case.

MARTIN: Absolutely.

BLACKWELL: It's just, focus on our children too.

MARTIN: Yeah, absolutely. And the mothers make it very clear that this is not about saying white women, or white people that go missing shouldn't have the full force of law enforcement agencies and media covering the stories, but other kids that go missing - other young adults that go missing also need that kind of attention because we know that kind of attention leads to results.

I mean, Gabby's body was found, and we know that there are clues that are found that help them find perpetrators of crimes when they are committed like this. So hopefully this mom gets her prayers answers and the FBI does get involved, the state attorney gets involved, and we get answers to this case.

CAMEROTA: Yeah, she deserves that.

MARTIN: Yeah, absolutely.

CAMEROTA: Areva, great to have you here. Thanks so much -

MARTIN: Great to be with you.

CAMEROTA: - for joining us. BLACKWELL: Thank you. Well, disgraced attorney Alex Murdaugh is

denied bond by a South Caroline judge. It's just the latest chapter in this string of legal crises. We've got the latest on this case next.

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BLACKWELL: A South Carolina judge is denying bond for the disgraced attorney who is accused of stealing millions of settlement dollars from the family of his deceased housekeeper.

CAMEROTA: CNN's Dianne Gallagher joins us now. So Dianne, I mean, this saga as we've discussed has been so twisted. This is the same man, of course, whose wife and son were shot to death. So what did we learn at today's hearing?

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, and that's just one of a whole thread that is just unspooling from cases that surround Alex Murdaugh. A judge today denying his bond. The charges stemming from, essentially what the state describes as misappropriating wrongful death settlement funds that are related to the 2018 death of Gloria Satterfield. She was a Murdaugh family housekeeper.

According to attorneys she helped raise their children. She died after a fall in the Murdaugh home. Now, according to state attorneys, Alex Murdaugh approached the Satterfield family at her funeral, and said, let me help you out here, I'm going to suggest an attorney.

That attorney brokered a $4.3 million settlement, $3 million of which was supposed to go to the Satterfield family. But according to the state of South Carolina, they didn't see a dime of that. And instead they say it went into an account that Alex Murdaugh used and spent on other items for his personal use.

Now look, the judge did put some stipulations on the denial of bond, saying that if he could get a psychiatric evaluation for Alex Murdaugh that satisfied the judge they could potentially set a bond at a later date. His attorneys have said that Murdaugh has suffered from a decades long opioid addiction that was exacerbated by the murder of his wife and son in June. They say that they believe that they can get this done later this week.

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DICK HARPOOTLIAN, ATTORNEY FOR ALEX MURDAUGH: His mental status is, I mean, good. You know, I spent - Jim and I spent a year and a half with him, and Maggie, and Paul when apparently he was on OxyContin and opioids - and he seems much more clear headed today than I've ever seen him.

We think we can get him a clean - a relatively clean bill of health by the end of this week, early next week from a psychiatrist based on the six weeks of examinations he's had by mental health experts both at the detox center and the rehab facility.

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GALLAGHER: Now, the attorney that brokered that deal, his law license has been suspended in the interim as well by the state of South Carolina.

Victor, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Dianne Gallagher, thank you very much. And "The Lead with Jake Tapper," starts after a short break.