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Crisis in Myanmar; Defending the "Steele Dossier". Aired 2-3a ET
Aired October 19, 2021 - 02:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[02:00:24]
ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. You are watching CNN NEWSROOM. And I'm Rosemary Church. Just ahead 16 Americans and Canadian kidnapped by gangs in Haiti. What we know about the condition and what's being done to freedom.
A trailblazing general an architect of U.S. foreign policy, loses his final battle to cancer and COVID.
Plus. a former British spy doubling down on the dossier that said Russia had a highly compromising video they could use to blackmail Donald Trump.
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Center. This is CNN NEWSROOM with Rosemary Church.
CHURCH: Thanks for joining us. Well, a team from the United States is now on the ground in Haiti where there's an urgent effort to locate and free 17 kidnap missionaries. Haitian authorities believe the 16 Americans and one Canadian were taken on Saturday by the 400 Mawazo Gang. A powerful and growing presence inside a country struggling with a surge of violence. CNN's Joe Johns has more now from Port-au-Prince.
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JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): City descending into lawlessness, many businesses and schools were closed Monday in Port-au-Prince and an indefinite strike to protest the worsening security in Haiti.
Gangs rule the streets here and kidnapping is big business for them. A brazen abduction on Saturday. 17 missionaries were taken just north of the Capitol after visiting an orphanage. 16 Americans, one Canadian, five of them children. The missionaries were part of a group called Christian aid ministries based in Ohio. U.S. officials say they do not know where they're being held. But the State Department says a small team now on the ground in Haiti is working closely with Haitian authorities to secure their release.
Security sources say this is the man behind the surge of kidnappings in Haiti. He is said to be the leader of one of Haiti's most powerful gangs, called 400 Mawazo. Authorities believe they kidnap the missionaries despite a warrant out for his arrest on charges of murder and kidnapping the gang leader often boast publicly about his gang.
WILSON JOSEPH, GANG LEADER, 400 MAWOZO: The reason why I'm proud to be a gangster is because this is what feeds me. Because we don't have a country. Guns are a form of power.
JOHNS: Human rights group in Haiti says the number of kidnappings in the country is spiraling out of control rising nearly 300 percent since July. It also says 400 Mawazo, its leader shown here in a white face covering is behind many of the kidnappings. Abducting Haitians and foreign nationals and typically demanding ransoms of about $20,000.
The United Nations recently extended his political mission in Haiti, the country's still raw from the assassination of its president and a powerful earthquake earlier this year. But some officials blame the rise of the armed gangs on a security vacuum left after U.N. peacekeepers ended their mission in Haiti just two years ago.
LAURENT LAMOTHE, FORMER PRIME MINISTER OF HAITI: The United Nations had a military component of military force for over 14 years, spent over $14 billion and left in 2019, creating a huge security void. Basically the train the police and the police is under 16,000 police officers and is not really equipped to fight off the type of gang activity, the type of gang warfare that's going on right now in Haiti. Joe Johns, CNN, Port-au-Prince, Haiti.
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CHURCH: Jacqueline Charles is a Caribbean Correspondent for The Miami Herald. She joins me now from Miami. Thank you so much for being with us.
JACQUELINE CHARLES, THE MIAMI HERALD CARIBBEAN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks for having me.
CHURCH: So Haiti is no stranger to kidnappings. But even this abduction of 16 U.S. missionaries and one Canadian has shocked the island nation. How different is this gang related kidnapping to others? And what might it reveal in terms of what these gangs are now doing and what they're intentions may be going forward?
[02:05:02]
CHARLES: Well, you know, Haitians have known for a long time that they are vulnerable to kidnapping regardless of their status in life. You know, whether they are schoolchildren, or whether they are professionals and here what we're seeing with foreigners that are now being kidnapped. And it's not the first time that we've had an American or Canadian that have been kidnapped but it's the first time that we've seen them abducted in such a large group.
I think how this is resolved, whether it's through ransom or the role of the United States, is really going to be important here. I was talked to a number of patients and they said that if this goes the way of every other, you know, kidnapping that happens in that country where a ransom is paid, then they are really fearful for the avertation and what's going to happen with the surge and kidnapping that the country has been witnessing.
CHURCH: So explain to us past kidnappings. What usually happens, because quite a few people once the ransom is paid, they are released, aren't they? How does it usually end?
CHARLES: Exactly. I mean, it's very rare that the police will actually go in and rescue someone who's being held hostage. And in those cases, that individual is really being held somewhere in the greater Port-au- Prince area. Someplace is accessible to police forces. But most likely, what often happens is that people are taken captive, and they are held in these kidnapping layers. And the case of this particular gang, they control one of the largest territories in the capital.
It is just east of Port-au-Prince. It is on the road leading to the border of the Dominican Republic. It's mostly rural, there are a lot of trees. And there are areas that if you were to run a drone, for instance, you would think that there's no road. What they've done this, they take in trees, and they block the roads. So everyone has been asking, you know, where are these individuals being held.
But the reality is, it doesn't really matter. Because whenever police go into that area, and I myself, I've traveled there, the gangs already know. They've been alerted that, you know, police are coming. And so it's very difficult to get access to this gang or to where they would likely be keeping their victim.
CHURCH: So how do the U.S. and Canada need to respond to this kidnapping? And is there a sense that if they just pay the ransom, this will end well? And they perhaps don't want to look at other options here?
CHARLES: Well, you have a couple of issues, right? There's the issue of paying the ransom, in order for those who are being held hostage, including five children so that they can return to their families and they can be free. But then there's also the issue of precedent. I mean, people who deal with these issues all the time, the concerns, they always have is that if individuals or their families pay these large sums, what it does is that it basically encourages the game.
And it tells them that they can continue to do kidnappings, they can continue to act to large sums of money because it's going to get paid. Because we're talking about foreign nationals, Canadians and Americans. I think that this puts both countries in a very tight spot. And I really don't know how they're going to handle it. The FBI is in country. They arrived just a few days ago. Usually FBI doesn't get involved in say like negotiating with the gang itself.
It assists family members and how they carry out those negotiations. Usually, you know, the U.S. can lean on authorities over talking about a country with a president was assassinated on the 7th of July. There's an interim Prime Minister in government, but there's conflict there. So the question today is, who do you lean on? Who does this gang respond to that you can basically go and say listen, you need to release these individuals without the payment of a ransom.
CHURCH: Yes. This is a very delicate operation, clearly. Jacqueline Charles, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it.
CHARLES: Thanks for having me.
CHURCH: A close ally of Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro has appeared in a U.S. Court to face charges. He laundered money on behalf of the government in Caracas. Colombian businessman Alex Saab was extradited from Cabo Verde to the U.S. over the weekend and Venezuela's embattled leader is not happy about it.
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NICOLAS MADURO, VENEZUELAN PRESIDENT (through translator): The United States government assured the unitary platform that they were not going to take Alex up SAb because that would interfere with dialogue. Yes, so they did it. I'm not going to lie. They did it with malice. With criminal spirit. They kidnapped Alex SAb. They kidnapped him.
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CHURCH: Hours after SAb's extradition, Venezuelan intelligence officials picked up the CITGO 6, former American oil executives who were under house arrest in Caracas. Venezuela has rejected a U.S. State Department call for their release. Well, journalist, Stefano Pozzebon is following developments live this hour from neighboring Colombia. He joins us now.
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CHURCH: Good to see you, Stefano. So what more are you learning about the CITGO 6?
STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The CITGO 6, Rosemary, are a story that tends to repeat itself for when it comes to Venezuela. It's a group of former executives in the U.S.-based Petroleum Corporation CITGO which is controlled by the Venezuelan government and they were detained first in Caracas in 2017 on charges of embezzlement, which they denied, and they have been taken in and out of detention centers and into house arrest.
There whenever the relationship between the Venezuelan government and the government of the United States soared up. For many observers they are considered essentially what are (INAUDIBLE) of these negotiations between Caracas and Washington. What is happening now is that the United States Department of Justice has decided to act forcefully against Alex SAb. A key piece of the money web that is supporting embattled Venezuelan strongman, Nicolas Maduro. And Maduro, for taking a retaliation has decided to hate on the CITGO 6.
And just a few hours ago, we were able to speak with one of the daughters of the -- of one -- of these members of Veronica Vadell, and she urged the state environment to do more. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) VERONICA VADELL, DAUGHTER OF CITGO 6 MEMBER TOMEU VADELL: It's a very simple problem with a very easy solution. I need my President Biden to sit down and discuss with the Venezuelan government, what it is that's going on, and they need to bring that home.
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POZZEBON: And you see there, Rosemary, all the pain, the tragedy that these families are going through, Veronica hasn't seen her father for the last four years. She had a son just a couple of years ago and these -- and his grandfather hasn't seen him either. And what her calls a very simple solution is actually a very complicated international policy matter, Rosemary.
CHURCH: All right. Stefano Pozzebon staying on top of that story. Many thanks for bringing up to date.
Well, North Korea has fired at least one, possibly two ballistic missiles into the waters of its east coast. South Korea says it's confirmed one launch from the port city of Sinpo where North Korea keeps submarines and equipment for test firing submarine launched missiles. Japan's defense ministry tells CNN it estimates North Korea fired to missiles. The new Prime Minister Fumio Kishida tweeted Japan will respond resolutely.
Well, the U.S. President is mourning the death of General Colin Powell. A groundbreaking leader public servant and statement. Powell died at the age of 84 from COVID complications while he battled multiple myeloma and Parkinson's disease both of which weaken the immune system. President Joe Biden remembered Powell as a dear friend and shining example of the American dream.
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JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Colin Powell - he's not only a dear friend and a patriot, one of our great military leaders, and a man of overwhelming decency, but this is the guy born the son of immigrants in New York City, raised in Harlem, in the South Bronx.
This is a guy -- and we talk about it -- who had teachers who looked at this African-American kid and said, you can do anything.
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CHURCH: And that he did becoming a trailblazer, who broke multiple barriers. Former President Ronald Reagan made him the first black national security adviser. Powell was also the youngest and first black Chairman of the Joint Chiefs under President George H.W. Bush, which included the period of Desert Storm. And then in 2001, he made history again by becoming the first black secretary of state under President George W. Bush.
Well, four decades, our chief international anchor, Christiane Amanpour covered Colin Powell from his military leadership to his time as Secretary of State and she shared her impressions with CNN's Becky Anderson. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Certainly those who served with was way before my time, those who we lead had huge respect for him. Basically, the whole world had huge respect for him (INAUDIBLE) United States for a while. He was the most unpopular person in public service at one time.
[02:15:05]
AMANPOUR: And you mentioned about his, you know, people considered him running for office, but he never seriously did. And he said, this is something I actually have found out, I have no passion for the politics of a presidential run. My passion is for my people, in other words, soldiers, people in uniform, and he was very concerned when they were deployed, it must be for achievable gains.
And what I'm saying is that his record will be mixed because in some occasions, it was a massive success, the first Gulf War, the deployment of overwhelming force, but in some situations of caution, led to a failure of leadership. And that was one year and then onwards, Rwanda and elsewhere. So and then, as you've all mentioned, in the second Iraq war but the man was very well respected. He blazed the trail in certainly the black community in the United States.
He was of immigrant parents from Jamaica. And even though by his own admission, he wasn't a great student, he became top in terms of domestic leadership and an influence and respect inside the United States. And certainly he was somebody who believed in negotiation, who was believed in coalitions, and he was very well respected by allies in the rest of the world as well.
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CHURCH: Back in July, Powell spoke to journalists Bob Woodward, in what may have been his last interview. Powell describe the diseases he was fighting well before he contracted COVID. He told Woodward he drives to the hospital in his COVID for blood tests, and that he was in good shape.
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COLIN POWELL, FORMER UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, you see, I've got him out of the hospital about two, three times a week. I get multiple myeloma cancer and I've got Parkinson's disease but otherwise I'm fine.
BOB WOODWARD, WASHINGTON POST ASSOCIATE EDITOR: Oh, no, I'm so sorry.
POWELL: No, no, don't feel sorry for who guys say to me five years old. Got to have something.
WOODWARD: Well --
POWELL: I haven't lost a day of life fighting these two diseases.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHURCH: Powell died from COVID complications despite being fully vaccinated. His chief of staff says he wanted to get a booster shot last week but was too sick to do so. Experts say the type of cancer power was fighting made him extremely vulnerable to the virus.
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DR. PETER HOTEZ, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR VACCINE DEVELOPMENT, TEXAS CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL: No way should this be seen as a is any kind of condemnation of the vaccinations. The vaccines are working really well. It's just that multiple myeloma patients, especially older multiple myeloma patients simply did not do well, either with COVID-19 or with COVID-19 vaccinations.
SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: We know that this is a cancer of the very cells that produce the antibodies, right? So that's the plasma cells, and they're the ones that produce the antibodies. We also know we can put it up that about 45 percent of people who get vaccinated only have about an adequate -- have an adequate response to the vaccine. 22 percent have a partial response and 33 percent have no response.
So we don't know where he sort of fell in there. But that was also, you know, that -- that's why it's been suggested that people who have weakened immune systems as he would have get that booster shot.
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CHURCH: The FDA is expected to greenlight a mix and match approach to COVID vaccine booster shots for Americans this week. That is according to reporting by the New York Times and several other outlets. Officials told the Times that the FDA might tell people to stick to the same vaccine when possible, but it won't recommend one shot over another.
Still to come here on CNN NEWSROOM. Nigerians are remembering the peaceful protesters killed by government forces in the Lekki tollgate shootings. One year later, the families of the victims are still waiting for justice.
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CHURCH: The Ethiopian Air Force now admits it carried out successful airstrikes against separatist installations in McKinley Tigray on Monday. According to the state run Ethiopian Press Agency. Earlier though the government had emphatically denied the strikes even took place and said the Tigray People's Liberation Front was crying wolf. CNNs Larry Maduwo has more.
LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Eye witnesses tell CNN they saw at least two airstrikes. They saw people covering for safety, and some reports say some people were killed. But the TPLF says the Cuban government is once again targeting innocent civilians, which is against international law. Coming up to the first anniversary of the start of this conflict and it appears to have gotten worse, it has spilled over into the neighboring regions of afar and Amhara.
The international community has been calling for cessation of hostilities, investigation of any of the atrocities that have been reported and access for humanitarian aid. Larry Madowo, CNN, Nairobi.
CHURCH: One year after the lucky tollgates shootings in Nigeria, a judicial panel investigating what happened has ended its session without filing an expected report. Nigerian forces had fired on peaceful protesters killing and wounding several of them. And families of the victims are still demanding justice and accountability. We get more from CNN Stephanie Busari and a warning. Her report contains graphic images.
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STEPHANIE BUSARI, CNN SUPERVISING EDITOR, AFRICA: It was a night of peaceful protest ended in bloodshed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) start shooting our doors.
BUSARI: A CNN investigation last year pieced together what happened when a Nigerian Army and later the police opened fire on its own civilians as they protested police brutality. One year on from the lucky tollgate shooting the Nigerian authorities are still not taking responsibility for what happened that night. This woman's son was one of the protesters. She's too afraid to show her face for fear of recriminations.
Here is her son earlier on the day of the protest. The Lekki tollgate clearly visible behind him. When his mother found him early the next morning, he had been shot in the chest.
What will you say to the government if they come to you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I will say to them the same thing I am saying to you. I cannot lie about my children's death.
BUSARI: CNN's original investigation use timestamps, video data and geo location to analyze hours of footage shot by protesters. Tracking the Army's movements to Lekki tollgate with protests have been taking place for nearly two weeks. This video appears to show the army shooting toward the crowd. Here at the top of your screen here. The Nigerian army's account would happen or shifted over time.
Initially, they call it fake news and insisted soldiers at only fired blank bullets into the air and police denied shooting anyone. The Nigerian government threatened to sanction CNN for its report. At a judicial hearing one General said there's no way they would kill their brothers and sisters. But admit it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The soldiers would be given both live and blank bullets.
[02:25:08] BUSARI: This hearing was set up by the Lagos State Government to look into cases of abuse and investigate the tollgate incident. Renewed request for comments to the army police and the federal government have not been answered.
(on camera): It's been a year since people gathered here and at the Lekki tollgate to protests against police brutality and corruption. But many Nigerians believe that the issues that drew protests 12 months ago still persist. And those who were here that night, still seeking justice.
DJ Switch was at the protests and livestream much of the evening on her Instagram. A year later, she recalls how she thought they were all going to die.
DJ SWITCH, NIGERIA MUSICIAN, PROTESTER AT LEKKI TOLL GATE: They thought it was the end for all of us there. You know, I mean, when you sing the national anthem and wave your flag, your Nigerian flag and the shooting doesn't stop. You only have one thought left in your mind.
BUSARI: Soon after the shootings, DJ Switch said she had to flee Nigeria, afraid for her safety. She hasn't been back since.
BUSARI: Do you think justice is possible for those who lost their lives?
SWITCH: Justice is there waiting to be done. Young people are asking every day for accountability.
BUSARI: For many of those who witnessed these events and who remain in Nigeria, atmosphere of intimidation, and fear has taken over. Leaving many too scared to step forward and push for answers.
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BUSARI: Rosemary, Wednesday is exact one year of this tollgate shooting, and organizers telling me of the protests that they are planning to march for the victims of the shooting and others around the country. And they plan to release balloons with names of the victims. But, you know, there has been heavy police presence around the Lekki tollgate area. And so the fear and intimidation that I talked about is persists.
And it remains to be seen really whether they will be allowed to hold that march. In previous -- in previous incidences they haven't been allowed to hold protests since the Lekki tollgate incident happened. So really tomorrow, Wednesday, we don't know if that much will go ahead. But organizers are say they are planning to gather to mark the memory of those who lost their lives in these protests, Rosemary.
CHURCH: And we will continue to follow this story. Stephanie Busari, thank you so much for your report. Appreciate it.
Well, freedom finally came for many of Myanmar's political prisoners. More on the timing of the amnesty and the promise the protesters had to make to the military leaders. That news is still to come.
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CHURCH: Well, hundreds of political prisoners in Myanmar are now free. Local media are reporting that they were released Yangon's prison. Military leaders said the prisoners are required to sign a document pledging to not commit any acts of violence against the country. State television announced the amnesty for thousands of anti- coup protesters Monday. It came minutes after the country's military leader blamed his opponents for prolonging unrest and blasted the Association of Southeast Asian Nations for not acknowledging that.
CNN's Ivan Watson, in Hong Kong. He joins now us live with the details.
So, Ivan, talk to us about the significance of the timing of the release of these political prisoners?
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Sure. I mean, the military announced that they were going to release a total, of around 5,600 political prisoners arguing that this was to "show humanitarian grounds, bring peace to the people and participate in nation building." And we have seen scenes in Yangon wrong of scores, if not hundreds of people, being released.
But human rights activists have pointed out that they do not know if the 5,600 people are, in fact, going to be being released because there are parts of the country where the internet has been cut off and there is a lack of communications and transparency to see whether or not the military regime holds true to its commitment.
We've also heard skepticism from opposition groups and activists about the real reason behind the releases. With some arguing that this is the result of pressure coming, for example, from the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, ASEAN, which over the weekend, announced that Myanmar would not be invited to attend a summit later this month, seen by many to be a stinging rebuke of the military regime that overthrew an elected government on February 1st and imposed itself as the nation's rulers.
And in fact, the general who declared himself ruler of the country, Min Aung Hlaing, he gave a speech on Monday and he criticized ASEAN saying, hey, effectively, why are you criticizing me instead of criticizing the opposition groups, which you described as terrorists and accused them of being responsible for the violence in the country?
Other voices such as the special rapporteur from the United Nations have been skeptical of the military's release of all these prisoners, saying that this is a result of internal and external pressure and also trying to remind the International Community that these thousands of people were initially detained illegally and then subject to some terrible treatment. This is, again, according to Tom Andrews who went on to write, "Many of those detained to date were tortured, some to death, others were victims of sexual assault, some were infected with COVID-19 and perished while in overcrowded and unsanitary conditions."
The Myanmar military regime says it has a five-point roadmap for reestablishing democracy in the country, which is still under emergency rule. And its basic argument for overthrowing the elected government is amid claims, not backed by any evidence, that the elections, last year when the military-backed political party were creamed at the polls that the elections were rigged. We have heard of no case of any of the jailed leaders of the former elected government, such as Aung San See Kyi, that they are being released in this mass release of prisoners. Back to you, Rosemary.
CHURCH: All right. Many thanks to our Ivan Watson for bringing us up to date on that. Appreciate it.
Well, Donald Trump answers questions under oath the same day a former British spy defends his controversial dossier years from the 2016 presidential election, next on CNN Newsroom.
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CHURCH: The former British intelligence officer whose controversial report became part of the investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. election is standing by his claims. Christopher Steele has given his first on-camera interview since the Steele Dossier was revealed four years ago. His report claimed Russia held compromising information on Former U.S. President Donald Trump. Although not proven to be true, one claims was that Russia has video of Mr. Trump with prostitutes in a Russian hotel, an incident Trump has denied ever happened.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you stand by the dossier?
CHRISTOPHER STEELE, FORMER BRITISH INTELLIGENCE OFFICER: I stand with the work we did, the sources that we had and the professionalism which we apply to.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And today, do you still believe that tape exists?
STEELE: I think it probably does. But I wouldn't put 100 percent certainty on it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, how do you explain if that tape does indeed exist and hasn't been released?
STEELE: Well, it hasn't needed to be released.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why not?
STEEL: Because I think the Russians felt they got pretty good value out of Donald Trump when he was president of the U.S. (END VIDEO CLIP)
CHURCH: Bob Baer is a CNN intelligence and security analyst. He's also a former CIA operative. He joins me now from Telluride, Colorado.
Always a pleasure to have you with us.
ROBERT BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST, FORMER CIA OPERATIVE: Thanks, Rosemary.
CHURCH: So, Bob, what is the likely timing behind the former British intelligence officer, Christopher Steele, speaking out now on-camera defending claims he made in his dossier that went public back in 2017, that Russian officials have compromising information on Former President Donald Trump?
BAER: Well, you know, frankly, this wasn't the best time. I mean, this is a losing proposition for Steele. I mean, he just doesn't have any proof on the famous tape, the Pee Tape. That's the big problem. This is what everybody is focusing on. And what they are going to forget, even after this documentary and going public, is that he was largely right about the Russians interfering in the elections and supporting Trump in one degree or another.
He was also right about the Russians targeting people around Trump, namely Carter Page, the FBI knows this from intercepts and wired calls. So, I mean, this -- I mean, he is largely right, but people are going to focus on the most sensational part of it as well as his Cohen's visit to Prague. And I know what they have been trying to do is to find Cohen's phone, the president's former lawyer, pinging off a Prague cell tower, but that was never found. I know the last couple of years.
So, he lacks any proof of these sensational claims. And, of course, the far-right is not going to listen at all, this is going to say, this all part of a great fraud.
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CHURCH: I mean, this is the problem, is that there is no proof, Steele's unverified dossier was trigger that led to Special Counsel Robert Mueller's investigation. But many of the claims such as the so- called Pee Tape you mentioned, they were never proven and Mueller's report also concluded that Steele's allegation that former Trump attorney, Michael Cohen, traveled to Prague in 2016 to meet with Russian officials was untrue. So, where does all this leaves Steele's credibility and his apparent effort to set the record straight?
BAER: Well, you know, Rosemary, the country is divided. You know, half of Americans believe that the Trump is a Russian agent of some sort and half don't. And you're not going to convince him either way. I mean, you know, for instance, they've all -- everybody's forgotten that Trump was trying to sell his hotel as he was running for the presidency. He denied it. He lied about. Still found out about it. It was common knowledge in Moscow, he found out about it. I mean, that's, you know, an act of corruption that should be unforgivable, but everybody is forgetting.
Normally, Rosemary, in a tape like this you take these sensational claims and you put them in footnotes, you caveat them saying, look, we heard this, we can't prove it, but the problem for Steele is that this report was never meant to go public. And he knows that once it came out in this form, he was sort of doom. He can't get around it.
What should have happened, it should have gotten first to Mueller, Mueller should've checked out what he could and then, done a report. The Washington Press did a disservice to Steele.
CHURCH: You're right. And on the topic of what we're calling the Pee Tape, Steele says he can't say 100 percent certainty that it is out there. Many think that Russia did have something on Trump, which they say explains why the former U.S. president always pandered to Vladimir Putin, but then many would say, well, then, why wasn't any of it used? Presumably, it wasn't needed. What are your thoughts on that?
BAER: Well, my -- I mean, I've dealt with Russian intelligence in the past and I know all those specific hotel rooms, including the National where Trump went in '87 stayed are all videoed. And they are looking for compromises (ph), called Russian counterintelligence. So, the chances of his being taped in a room in Moscow are almost 100 percent certain.
Now, what the Russians, by leaving this all very ambiguous, if there was a Pee Tape, is it just drives Americans crazy, and we're going to be talking about this forever and the Russians and Putin would absolutely love this. He would Steele going public. He would love putting Trump in a corner. He would love anything to acerbate and worsted the atmosphere of American politics. It's all he cares about.
CHURCH: All right. Bob Baer, thank you so much for talking with us. Appreciate it.
BAER: Thank you.
CHURCH: Well, Colombia finally seems to have a solution for dealing with Pablo Escobar's so-called cocaine hippos. Putting them on birth control. The notorious drug lord brought four hippos into Columbia in the 1980s for his private zoo. Well, now, there are 80 of them and biologists say they are a threat to people and the environment.
So, the government is now using darts loaded with the contraceptive to sterilize the remaining hippos, which scientists say is cheaper and safer than trying to nurture them.
Thank you much for joining us. I'm Rosemary Church. World Sport is coming up next you. You're watching CNN. I'll be back at the top of the hour. Stay with us.
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