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Biden Compromises on Economic Package; Biden Nixes College and Tax Credit; Dr. Ashish Jha is Interviewed about Vaccine Rollout; Los Angeles to Vote on Vaccination Deadline; Trump asks for Injunction; Cheney's Accusations against Bannon. Aired 9-9:30a ET
Aired October 20, 2021 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[09:00:30]
ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Good Wednesday morning. I'm Erica Hill.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto.
The key word on Capitol Hill this morning is compromise, big compromise, as any moment Speaker Nancy Pelosi is set to meet with House Democrats after President Biden informed progressives there will be huge concessions to his social spending and climate package.
In an effort to get moderate senators, led by Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema, to sign off, sources tell CNN that Biden discussed a big drop in the spending bill's price tag. More than a half down. And he told them that top White House priorities, such as tuition-free community college are out, along with other major cuts to key agenda items.
HILL: The president also making it clear he wants an agreement before he heads to Europe next week, at the end of the month. And that's prompting a renewed sense of urgency among top Senate Democrats.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): We've got to get it done and want to get it done this week.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): It's now time to fish or cut bait.
We have something that the American people want and they want now.
SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): There is an increasing feeling of the need to get this done, sooner the better.
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): Enough talking. It's time to get this done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: Joining us now, Jeremy Diamond from the White House, Melanie Zanona on Capitol Hill.
So, Jeremy, let's start with you.
The president, as Jim pointed out, dropping that price tag, making some cuts to programs. But clearly something else was happening because there is a very obvious shift in tone that we're seeing. What was the messaging? How much do we know about what the president said behind closed doors in terms of getting it done now?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there is clearly a sense of urgency that is being felt on all sides right now between the White House, the progressive faction, as well as some of those moderates. But a deal is not yet in hand. And that is important to note.
But the president and the White House are working to try and get to some kind of a framework agreement by the end of the week. And it will be scaled down from even what the president was talking about just a few weeks ago. The president yesterday talking about an agreement in the range of $1.75 trillion to $1.9 trillion. Earlier this month the president was talking about $1.9 trillion to $2 trillion. So that is already a shift. And, of course, it's dramatically different from the $3.5 trillion that the White House and progressive Democrats had initially envisioned.
And some of that, of course, means that there are going to be some key programs that the White House was pushing that are going to be cut. That includes free community college program, for example, for two years that had been envisioned by the White House. That is now -- appears to be out of this plan. As well as the clean electricity performance program. That is something that would incentivize power plants to switch to clean energy. And that was being opposed by Senator Joe Manchin.
Other programs are also being reduced. The paid family leave from 12 weeks to four weeks. We're looking at the child tax credit only being extended for another year, and funding for home care initiatives dropping to $250 billion from $400 billion. So, again, this is all about the compromise that is happening. But the president making clear to these Democratic lawmakers that there needs to be some kind of agreement before he heads to Glasgow for the COP26 environmental summit. The president wants to make sure that those climate initiatives are included and that he has something to show other world leaders. Of course, those climate provisions still being hotly debated.
SCIUTTO: Melanie, you look at some of these concessions here on key elements of this agenda. And they are enormous. For instance, on paid family leave, from 12 weeks to four weeks with an income limit of $100,000. I mean just a one-year extension of the child care tax credit. That's big in here for Democrats. And they say that that's cut childhood poverty by 50 percent. I mean big question is, is that enough to get them all to agreement?
MELANIE ZANONA, CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: That is a great question, Jim.
Speaker Nancy Pelosi will have a caucus meeting this morning at 9:00 a.m. with her Democrats. The goal there is to unite her deeply divided caucus and rally them behind the idea of a compromise. They're operating under a new sense of urgency and they also have a new timeline, and that is to come up with an agreement or a general framework before the end of this week on that massive economic package. And the hope there is that that could actually unlock the necessary votes for a bipartisan infrastructure bill.
If you remember, progressives said they would not vote on infrastructure until the reconciliation bill actually passed both chambers, but we're starting to see a number of them, including the chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, soften on that stance.
[09:05:01]
We're also hearing a number of Democrats talk about the importance of compromise, which is something we hadn't really heard a lot before.
Just take a listen to what some Democrats had to say on "NEW DAY" this morning about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): Progressives understand we have to compromise to get 50 votes, 51 votes. That's the reality.
We want to make sure that Senator Sanders is on board with it. And if that happens, we'll get on board with it.
REP. AMI BERA (D-CA): You've got to get 50 votes. You've got to get 200 votes in the House. And if this is the best deal that we can come up with, then let's get this deal and let's move forward, but let's keep working on other priorities.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZANONA: So, look, Democrats are really trying to put some points on the board before the November 3rd Virginia governor's race, as well as before the climate conference in Scotland in a few weeks. And I'm sure that will be part of the message this morning from Speaker Nancy Pelosi.
Jim. Erica.
SCIUTTO: All right, we'll see if they can get to agreement this time.
Melanie Zanona on The Hill, Jeremy Diamond at the White House, thanks very much.
Well, President Biden will discuss his ambitious legislative agenda and take questions from the American people during a CNN town hall with Anderson Cooper. Can't imagine better timing. It airs tomorrow night at 8:00 Eastern time only on CNN.
All right, more breaking news.
The White House has just released plans to roll out coronavirus vaccines for children age five to 11 years old. A plan for rolling it out as soon as they are authorized for younger children.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will be ready to get shots in arms. Kids have different needs than adults and our operational planning is geared to meet those specific needs, including by offering vaccinations in settings that parents and kids are familiar with and trust.
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HILL: The FDA's independent panel of vaccine advisers, of course, is scheduled to meet next week. That's when they'll consider Pfizer's request for Emergency Use Authorization for that five to 11-year-old age group.
Joining us now to discuss, Dr. Ashish Jha. He's the dean of the Brown University School of Public Health.
Dr. Jha, always great to have you with us.
When I heard this, that the White House was putting this out, it signaled two things to me. Number one, they are really starting a full court press ahead of that meeting for potential EUA recommendation and also the fact that they are driving home this point that they are targeting 25,000 doctor offices, community health centers. This is all about making parents more comfortable and putting it in a setting that they know.
DR. ASHISH JHA, DEAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Yes, good morning. Thanks for having me back.
That's absolutely right. There's several things going on here, right? One is just the logistical stuff. These are different doses than the ones for adults. And what we don't want to do, what happened with the Trump administration when the vaccines were authorized was there was no plan for implementation. We don't want to do that. We want to have a plan ready for implementation, so the day after the CDC signs off on it, kids can start getting vaccinated.
And the second is that a lot of parents always are a little extra careful about their children and want to turn to their trusted voices, pediatricians among them. And so the White House is working with pediatricians, among others, to make sure that these vaccines are available where parents want them.
SCIUTTO: So, in addition to expanding the age group that's going to be approved for vaccination, we're also expanding the groups of people getting booster shots. CNN reporting that close to recommending this, not just for people 65 and older, or immunocompromised, but those 40 and up, that's a big chunk of the population. When I, eventually, in many years, reach that age, this might be important news for me.
But, seriously, is that how we should this, that in effect the policy, the recommendation is going to be moved toward everybody getting a booster at some point? JHA: Yes, look, this is really going to have to be driven by evident
and data. And my belief looking at the data out of other countries, out of Israel, we don't have great data out of the U.S. yet on younger people and boosters, but from other places, my guess is that we're all going to eventually end up needing boosters. But we should be driven by the data and the data right now really says, older people, high risk people, it's very, very clear.
I think the data is really emerging that people over 40 probably would benefit. And over time I can imagine even younger people getting it. But right now that's where the evidence is.
HILL: So, just to put a point on that too, that there was also some concern about younger people, younger, older people ending up in the hospital which is, you know, part of the reason that's prompting potentially this shift. He just put in perspective for us, as you said, you know, we go by the data, we go by the science. This is ever evolving but I think sometimes when there's all kinds of information coming out and changing, it can feel confusing to people.
Is there anything else to take away from this, other than that science changes and we have to follow the pandemic as it changes?
JHA: Yes, there are two sets of things going on, right, the virus is changing, the delta variant is a different variant than the one we were dealing with six months ago. So we should change our response.
And then our knowledge changes. And what we're learning is that after a certain period of time vaccine efficacy wains. And so when you look at people who died, for instance, during August and September, most of them were older but you did see some people in their 50s and even late 40s who got very, very sick and even ended up dying.
[09:10:03]
And so we want to make sure that we're protecting that population. A booster can potentially be helpful. Again, most of those deaths were in unvaccinated people, but we still see some people with breakthrough infections who get quite sick.
SCIUTTO: But the numbers are clear, vaccination saves lives and saves hospitalizations. We see that in spades.
Dr. Ashish Jha, thanks so much.
JHA: Thank you so much.
SCIUTTO: Well, new this morning, New York City is now requiring all city employees to be vaccinated against COVID-19, no longer with any option for weekly testing instead. All city workers must have at least one dose by 5:00 p.m. on November 1st or be placed, and this is crucial, on unpaid leave. The new mandate covers more than 160,000 workers including police officers and firefighters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO (D), NEW YORK CITY: We're asking our public servants and our first responders to do what they do best, lead us forward, help us out of the COVID era. If they choose not to, they go on unpaid leave. They have a chance to correct. Here's an interesting fact in our schools, 3,500 employees who originally said nope, I'm not getting vaccinated, in the last two weeks they've come back, got vaccinated, resumed work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: So we're less than two weeks to that November 1st date. Right now the NYPD says its vaccination rate is approximately 71 percent. Fire department says around 60 percent of their uniformed workforce have so far gotten the shot. It's a long way to go.
HILL: Well, from one coast to the other, overnight officials in Los Angeles announcing a plan to delay a vaccine deadline there for city employees until December 18th. The city council still has to vote on this. City officials, though, are calling this their, quote, last best and final offer.
CNN national correspondent Nick Watt joining us from Los Angeles this morning with more.
So what happens here for those who don't comply, they face some sort of corrective action. What does that mean?
NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, they don't actually spell it out as being termination, but they call it appropriate and immediate corrective action.
But, listen, this was supposed to have kicked in fully at midnight last night. And in some senses it did. But there is this proposal on the table to give these city employees a little bit more time. In fact, quite a lot more time to really comply.
And the issue is, latest numbers, about a third of the LAPD officers, about a quarter of L.A. fire department have not been vaccinated yet. That's more than 4,000 people.
So, this new proposal would say, all right, we're going to say you're not in compliance right now, but you've got really until December 18th to get your shots. There is a catch, though. If you still haven't got your shot, you are going to have to be tested twice a week. You're going to have to do that on your own time. And you are going to have to pay for it out of your paycheck. That's more than $500 a month.
Listen, here in L.A., officials really talk tough on vaccine mandates. But it's clear here that they really don't want to actually fire anybody. What they're trying to do is to get as many city employees as possible vaccinated without having to fire them.
Erica.
HILL: Understandably, they don't want that headline.
WATT: Yes.
HILL: We'll be watching to see if this is perhaps the boost that some folks need.
WATT: Yes.
HILL: Nick Watt, appreciate it, my friend. Thank you.
Still ahead, I'll speak with the progressive Democrat who was in one of those negotiation meetings with President Biden. Can he support a significantly scaled back spending plan?
SCIUTTO: Plus, former President Trump's legal team making yet one more last ditch effort to stop the release of his White House documents to the January 6th committee.
And, later, the FBI targets a key figure in the Mueller investigation. What they were looking for when they raided two homes belonging to a Russian oligarch.
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[09:18:05]
HILL: Overnight, former President Donald Trump making a last ditch effort to block the National Archives from releasing documents to the January 6th committee. His legal team is now asking for a preliminary injunction and a hearing within 21 days.
SCIUTTO: He's making a lot of efforts to hide evidence about what went on before that day. Until a federal judge intervenes, those records will be handed over on November 12th.
CNN law enforcement correspondent Whitney Wild joins us now.
So, Whitney, again, we've been here before. The constant stall tactics with any sort of investigation going back to when he was still president. What are the steps here? How quickly does this move?
WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, we'll have to see when it actually lands on the judge's calendar. But what they're looking at is how can they manipulate this -- manipulate the calendar.
So we know that if a judge doesn't intervene, as you said, these documents will be handed over from the National Archives to the committee November 12th. They've asked for this injunction. They've asked for a hearing within 21 days. That's November 10th. There's a two-day wiggle room here, Jim and Erica, for a court to actually intervene.
This injunction is asking -- you know, focuses on a list of documents, 45 plus documents, and makes the claim that the Presidential Records Act is unconstitutional. Again, they are basically begging a judge to intervene here, which gives you a sense that they really don't want these documents to be handed over to the committee and that eventually very likely come to light, Jim and Erica. HILL: So as we watch that, the January 6th committee, of course,
unanimously voting to hold Steve Bannon in contempt of Congress for defying his subpoena. And some really direct comments from Liz Cheney last night as well, Whitney.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
WILD: Last night was a critical moment in this investigation for a list of reasons you've just laid out. The first is that they actually made this concrete movement to hold Steve Bannon in criminal contempt of Congress, something that, you know, people wondered if they would actually be able to do. Now they're doing it. This is going to hit the House floor very likely Thursday, then wit will go on to the Department of Justice.
[09:20:00]
The other critical moment that happened last night was Liz Cheney basically laying out this, you know, theory that if Steve Bannon and Trump have nothing to hide, then why are they fighting so hard. Here's what she had to say.
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REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): Mr. Bannon's and Mr. Trump's privilege arguments do, however, appear to reveal one thing. They suggest that President Trump was personally involved in the planning and execution of January 6th. And this committee will get to the bottom of that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILD: If the question throughout this process has been how aggressive can the committee get, well, these two moments last night give you a sense that they are going to be as aggressive as they possibly can, not only in their actions, but also in their speech, Erica and Jim.
SCIUTTO: Whitney Wild, thanks very much.
Joining us now to discuss, former federal prosecutor and CNN legal analyst Elliot Williams.
Elliot, good to have you on this morning.
You heard Liz Cheney there making quite an explosive allegation here that, in effect, Trump and Bannon have something to hide. I don't want to remind folks that this allegation does not come from nowhere.
I'm going to play sound from Steve Bannon one day before January 6th on his podcast. Have a listen, then I want to get your reaction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE BANNON: All hell is going to break loose tomorrow. Just understand this, all hell is going to break loose tomorrow. It's not going to happen like you think it's going to happen, OK. It's going to be quite extraordinarily different. And all I can say is strap in. The war room, a posse, you have made this happen and tomorrow it's game day. So, strap in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: A posse. That's circumstantial evidence, I suppose. I mean this shows why the committee, does it not, wants to get at those private conversations between Trump, Bannon and others on that day.
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Jim, I think it shows something even better, which is how foolish Steve Bannon's executive privilege claim is because what he's doing right there is speaking to an audience without the president present, not about something or matters dealing with the White House. How is this individual, in any universe, claiming that that's a statement that ought to be protected?
So, at a minimum, he's got to come in and testify as to the things he said on that podcast on January 5th.
Now, if he wants to make a claim about what he said to the president of the United States, OK, do that in court and have that lose too. But that very clip, Jim, is -- you know, that's devastating for that executive privilege claim he's trying to raise.
HILL: To your point, Elliot, that he needs to at least come in and discuss that moment, right, if not everything else.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
HILL: Let's look at, though, about what we know about Steve Bannon. Are there any signs that point to a moment where he would cooperate in any way? I mean, you know, he said, even just a couple of weeks ago, I stand with Trump, full stop.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
WILLIAMS: Yes. And it's clear, based on the way that the committee is speaking about him and dealing with him, that he's behaving in a different manner behind the scenes than Kash Patel or Mark Meadows or the other folks are. It seems pretty clear that they are at least attempting to negotiate the terms of their appearance and that Bannon hasn't done that.
If you look at the report that the committee put out on Monday, laying out all the ways in which they tried to contact Steve Bannon, and all the ways in which he said that he wasn't going to appear, it's clear that he's just, frankly, as the law says, willfully defying a subpoena, which has warranted a criminal contempt charge here.
SCIUTTO: So this process really, it's punitive rather than remedial.
WILLIAMS: Yes. Yes.
SCIUTTO: I mean the committee has, in effect, given up on getting Bannon to cooperate here. So the question is, can they get the same information, evidence, commentary, testimony that they need from other potential witnesses without Bannon?
WILLIAMS: Yes, maybe. Look, it's punitive, not remedial. You're exactly right, Jim. But it's a criminal charge and that can coerce someone into testifying. It's sort of -- something that someone doesn't want over their head.
He is a central witness. Let's be clear. Now, look, even taking Liz Cheney's statement, it's clear, or at least I would think that she's got more evidence or information than we have available to us right now because, frankly, it would be irresponsible to make a statement like that without knowing a little bit more. So there's -- there's a fuller record than we've seen, but he's a pretty important witness given all the communication he would have had with the president, given that podcast the day before, given all of the above.
So, yes, it is very much in our interest as a nation to hear from him, but some of that information could come from other sources.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
HILL: And, real quickly before we let you go, in terms of what we just saw from Trump's legal team, right, so this new effort now asking for a preliminary injunction.
WILLIAMS: Right.
HILL: They want a hearing within 21 days. Realistically, how do you see that playing out?
WILLIAMS: You know, look, it's more time because, look, even if that preliminary injunction request is denied, he still has a right to appeal it -- to an appeals court which takes even more time.
You know, why I -- it could potentially be a loser of an argument, one of the points that you need to prove to win a preliminary injunction is that you would likely win on the merits. And it's a pretty weak claim. So a court -- you know, even if the court -- a court could shoot it down and deny it, but it's just going to take more time.
[09:25:02]
And it's a successful way, in many respects, of gaming out the system to take more time, even though that's his rights as a litigant.
HILL: It is a well-worn page from his playbook.
WILLIAMS: Yes. Yes. Yes, no, we've seen it before. I mean, yes, no, absolutely.
HILL: Elliot Williams, thank you.
SCIUTTO: Elliot Williams, thank you.
WILLIAMS: Thanks, guys.
HILL: Just ahead, President Biden prepared to make major concessions to get a sweeping social spending bill over the finish line. One that would define his legacy. So how are progressives feeling about it this morning? I'm going to speak with a member of the Progressive Caucus, next.
SCIUTTO: And we're moments away from the opening bell on Wall Street. Wall Street may struggle to continue a five-day winning streak. Stock futures wavering as investors watch corporate earnings with big tech. That's right on the fence there as you can see on the Dow. But there is increasing optimism over the trajectory of corporate profits, even in the face of these ongoing supply chain constraints.
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