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Democrats Meet to Hash Out Disagreements on Scaled-Back Spending Plan; White House Plan to Roll Out Vaccines for Children Ages 5-11; Trump Asks Injunction to Keep January 6 Records Secret. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired October 20, 2021 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: A very good Wednesday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

ERICA HILL, CNN NEWSROOM: And I'm Erica Hill.

From holding firm to let's make a deal and let's do it fast, right now, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi just wrapping up a crucial meeting with her Democratic caucus as she tries to hash out perhaps some of the remaining disagreements over President Biden's social spending and climate package.

Democratic sources telling CNN, she wants an agreement on a framework of that plan by the end of the week and hopes that they can then approve the $1.2 trillion bipartisan infrastructure plan by the end of the month.

This renewed sense of urgency on Capitol Hill, of course, follows President Biden informing Democrats that to get moderates on board in the Senate, there will need to be major cuts to both the spending bill's price tag and its programs. We'll have more on that in just a moment.

SCIUTTO: Yes. There are some major concessions, major horse trading under way.

Also this morning, the White House releasing plans to roll out COVID- 19 vaccine for children age 5 to 11 years old. That's as soon as those shots get emergency use authorization from the FDA. We're going to bring you the details of that rollout plan. It relies a lot on doctors.

But, first, let's get to CNN Chief Congressional Correspondent Manu Raju on Capitol Hill for the latest on negotiations.

So, they're happening as we speak, Manu. You and I and Erica have been here many times before, talked about them being close and then they're not so close. Do you get the sense that things are coming together now among Democrats? MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It is getting much closer than it has been in months. And right now behind closed doors, Nancy Pelosi made that pitch to her members saying that this is a bill that, in her view, would strengthen the U.S. economy. They tried to detail how this proposal, even though it's scaled back and not nearly as ambitious as many liberals in her caucus would like, would still, in their view, have a significant and positive impact on the economy.

They tried to make that pitch to their members and they acknowledge, the leadership did, the challenge of getting this through. And as Nancy Pelosi described to her members, according to our colleague, Daniella Diaz, she said that once -- she described it as to like the child-birthing process, saying, once we have the beautiful baby, we'll all forget all of the pain of getting there. And it has been a painful process given how significant some of these divisions have been and the significant compromises folks on the left have made.

They're talking about a price tag right now around $2 trillion, and that is much less than the $3.5 trillion that the liberals have pushed, liberals like Pramila Jayapal, who has the congressional progressive caucus, who has to swallow some of these compromises. She indicated that they're on the right track, but also said the deal is not done yet.

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REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): No, no. There's no offer on the table yet. Nothing is agreed to until everything is agreed to by everyone. And so the discussions are moving. We feel good, we feel positive it's moving in the right direction.

I think what Steny just said is 98 percent of us agree on even what's before us, everything that's before us. And I think he was talking about the original build back better act. So, no, there were no specifics in there at all. And we're still in the process of just -- but I think the thing to focus on is good movement, good momentum, we're all trying to get it done as quickly as possible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So, some of the compromises that they had to make was to get rid of the idea of tuition-free community college. That was one of the issues that had been pushed in the original plan, also changes to how some of the child tax credit -- a big Democratic priority, how that would be dealt with. They're talking about a one-year extension. Some Democrats wanted up to a permanent extension of that child tax credit. They're talking about reducing the amount of funding for home health care for the elderly.

But they are talking about keeping some major provisions, an expansion of Medicare, to include dental, vision and hearing. Also universal pre-K, that is one of the social safety net provisions that are part of this plan. And how do they deal with the sticking point of climate change, still an issue that is out there.

But, nevertheless, despite all of this, a change in the tone, a change in the attitude and a belief that perhaps, finally, the Democrats could come together and get this accomplishment for their party. Guys?

SCIUTTO: Finally, the operative word. Manu Raju, thanks very much.

Joining us now to discuss more is CNN National Politics Reporter Eva McKend and New York Times White House Correspondent Zolan Kanno- Youngs.

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Good to have you both on.

Eva, as one of my colleagues described this morning, this is a chainsaw, not a scalpel being applied to some of these key priorities. I mean, getting a child tax credit down to a one-year extension, I mean, that's a major concession. They've also taken out what is a major part of the climate proposal, right, transitioning away from coal-fired plants, et cetera.

I wonder is this enough to make a deal, but are Democrats satisfied with it?

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER: Well, likely not. There are likely a lot of progressives that are really angry about this. But there is also the realization that the longer that this drags on, the more tortuous it becomes. And it doesn't make the party look good, it doesn't make the president look good. And so I think it's just the reality of the situation setting in and that deals are going to have to be made.

But I think even when this is all said and done, if Democrats are able to get this together, I think there are going to be a lot of hurt feelings among progressives. I remember last year when the coronavirus -- one of the coronavirus relief packages was passed and Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez took to the House floor with this blistering speech. Many Democrats were happy that they got something passed. But she took to the floor with this blistering speech saying that this was only crumbs for American families.

So I very much see this ending in a similar scenario where there are a lot of people on the left of the party that are not going to be totally satisfied, but they're going to take what they can get.

HILL: There are -- to your point, Eva, there are a number of concerns. I mean, we heard that just in our last hour from Congressman Torres, who broke with Congressman Ro Khanna, who had said earlier on New Day, he thought in terms of the child tax credit, that by the time this was in there, Republicans wouldn't let it expire. Maybe there's a lot of talk about could they look at another bill down the road separately to extend it.

He was very clear that he is not comfortable with that, he doesn't have faith in that sense, does not have faith in his Republican colleagues. Zolan, as we look at this, where is this urgency coming from? Is this about the calendar deadlines when it relates to the travel of the president or is it more, as Eva pointed out, the Democrats are finally realizing this has been a really bad look for them?

ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: It's coming from multiple directions at this point and from multiple places. Look, the Democrats and the White House, they want to pass something before the end of the year. And, remember, this isn't just the sweeping social policy bill that's attached to reconciliation.

But the current two-track strategy that they're going for means until they pass that sweeping social spending bill that just went through these cuts, then they don't get also the bipartisan infrastructure bill as well. And they want to pass at least one of those at this point.

But the president wants to be able to say that these sweeping proposals that he introduced to much fanfare and earlier in the year that he actually passed something. That will give him time before the midterms as well to point to something that actually has passed through and can have an impact on the American people.

But it's not just that. Look, the president is also going to take a pretty significant trip on the global stage in the days to come. He'll be going -- we've got this climate change summit as well. And I thought what was very interesting is if you look at John Kerry's comments from early last week when he said, if we go into that summit and we have not -- I'm paraphrasing here. But if we go into that summit and we have not passed a provision that has to do with climate change, something on climate change, then he relayed it to being as embarrassing as when they opted out of the international agreement on climate change, when the Trump administration opted out of that cooperative agreement.

So, I mean, you're seeing it coming from multiple places at this point, both the need to show something on the global stage and to the American people domestically.

SCIUTTO: It's material too for COP26 because it's not clear how the U.S. meets its climate commitments if it doesn't have a plan like this.

One thing that struck me, Eva, is this idea, even Progressive Leader Pramila Jayapal said she might be open to voting for that infrastructure package with just a framework for the budget deal as opposed to the law on paper. That's been the ultimate tension point here, right, is that progressives wouldn't vote for one without the other. Do you see that as a major breakthrough?

MCKEND: It is. It is a significant term of events. Because just a few weeks ago, they were saying all or nothing, both bills, or they're not moving forward with either. But this illustrates the pressure that they feel, that it has been months and months of basically standing in the same place.

And so at this point, I think that progressives realize they are in a position again where they have to make extraordinary concessions because their moderate colleagues are not going to let them move forward with their original vision. HILL: Eva McKend, Zolan Kanno-Youngs, good to have you both here this morning. Thank you.

And just a reminder, a CNN exclusive tomorrow night, President Biden will take questions from you, the American people.

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Anderson Cooper moderating a CNN presidential town hall. It begins right here tomorrow night at 8:00 Eastern.

SCIUTTO: All right, some big news now on COVID vaccine. This morning the White House is now releasing a plan to roll out COVID-19 vaccines for children ages 5 to 11. FDA vaccine advisers are expected to meet next week to discuss the possibility of authorizing Pfizer's emergency use request for this specific age group.

CNN's Senior Medical Correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins us now. And, Elizabeth, this plan relies on different kinds of things than previous vaccination plans. So, no big centers, right, like where I got my shot, for instance, but more relying on doctors, pharmacies, et cetera. Explain how it would play out.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. Jim, it does rely more on doctors' offices. You'll remember for the adult rollout, I don't think I know anyone who got their vaccine at a doctor's office. But pediatricians are different. They are good -- the whole system works well. They give vaccines on a daily basis. The ordering system is well established. Parents are used to going to pediatricians, so they will be making more use of individual doctors for the children than they did for the adults.

Now, the Biden administration remembers the rollout for the adults late last year. And they remember it didn't go so smoothly. You can remember those horrible lines, and so they are trying not to have that happen again, so they are starting planning.

So, let's take a look at where they are planning to give these vaccinations. As we talked about, pediatricians' offices, but also pharmacies, there have actually been laws that allowed pharmacies to give vaccines to children at younger ages than previously, also at children's hospitals, schools and at other places, such as rural health clinics.

Now, again, they remember the messy rollout from the Trump administration for the adults and they're trying not to repeat that, which is why they're preparing for this even though the CDC and the FDA have not actually green lit vaccines for children ages 5 to 11.

So, let's take a listen to Dr. Vivek Murthy, the surgeon general.

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DR. VIVEK MURTHY, SURGEON GENERAL: All the preparation that he mentioned takes time. All these conversations we're having with community organizations, the logistics that have to be set up at doctors' offices and pharmacies, it takes time. And that's one of the reasons why this planning has to start so early. It can't wait until a final decision is rendered, although that final decision is clearly up to the FDA and the CDC.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: So, given all this, I think clear indications that hopefully the rollout for children ages 5 to 11 will be smoother than the rollout for adults last December. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Yes. 28 million children in that age group, almost tenth of the country, it's a big portion of the population. Elizabeth Cohen, thanks very much.

COHEN: Thanks.

HILL: Well, new this morning, New York Mayor Bill de Blasio announcing an expanded vaccine mandate for all city employees. It's set to take effect at the end of the month. This does include police officers. Already, the city's largest police union says it does plans to challenge this in court, echoing the battles that we've seen between cities and police unions in a number of areas of the country.

In Los Angeles, the county sheriff said he's simply not going to enforce a vaccine deadline that was supposed to take effect today.

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SHERIFF ALEX VILLANUEVA, LOS ANGELES COUNTY: The issue has become so politicized, there are entire groups of employees who are willing to be fired and laid off rather than get vaccinated. So, I don't want to be in a position to lose 5, 10 percent of my workforce overnight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Well, late last night, L.A. City officials announced a proposal that would delay that vaccine deadline for city employees in L.A. until December 18th. The city council still has to approve this.

Meantime in Seattle, 98 percent of the police department was either vaccinated or granted an exemption by Monday's deadline. But even there, the police union president is warning of staffing shortages. Seattle P.D. is in what's called stage three mobilization. That means officers who are not regularly assigned to patrol are in uniform just in case they're needed to handle 911 calls.

Washington State Patrol had 127 employees, quote, separated from employment as a result of that vaccine mandate. Among them, 74 officers. One trooper who decided to quit had some choice words for the governor on the way out.

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ROBERT LAMAY, FORMER WASHINGTON STATE TROOPER: I wish I could say more, but this is it. So, stay 1034, this is the last time you'll hear me in a state patrol car and Jay Inslee can kiss my ass. (END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: In Chicago, the mayor and the head of the police union trading very personal insults over the policy to have officers show proof of vaccination or submit to twice weekly testing. The police superintendent says 67 percent of officers have reported their vaccine status into the city's portal. 21 officers have been placed on no-pay status as of last night. The superintendent says it's all about officer safety.

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SUPERINTENDENT DAVID BROWN, CHICAGO POLICE: On a very personal note, just last month, I lost my first cousin to COVID and her husband and her daughter in a two-week time span. And I will say and do anything to save an officer's life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Coronavirus is now the leading cause of death for law enforcement, according to the Officer Down Memorial Page. The non- profit group says COVID has killed 482 officers since the start of pandemic, that's more than five times the number who died from gunfire in that same period.

SCIUTTO: Remarkable numbers there.

Still to come, President Trump moves to quickly prevent documents to be released to the committee investigating the January 6th insurrection. Why? More on that, and contempt charges for Steve Bannon, next.

Plus, no end in sight for the supply chain disruptions affecting everything from toys to electronics to cars. Secretary Pete Buttigieg has warned this could last well into 2022. He's going to join us live this hour.

HILL: And the families of the Parkland High School shooting victims facing the gunman once more. The search for justice returns to the courtroom today.

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HILL: New this morning, former President Trump's legal team now calling for an injunction and a hearing within 21 days. It's part of a lawsuit to stop the release of documents related to his presidency and, of course, the attack on the Capitol on January 6th.

SCIUTTO: Yes. The move just the latest in a series, a last-ditch effort, to block the National Archives from giving those records to the committee investigating the January 6th insurrection. If a federal judge doesn't intervene, the Archives will turn over those document by November 12th. All of this comes as the January 6th committee has now unanimously voted to hold Steve Bannon in contempt of Congress for defying his subpoena. The full House will vote on those charges tomorrow. We're just getting new details that the House GOP leadership is recommending its members vote no.

HILL: Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney, who, of course, is on the committee, says Bannon and former President Trump's citing of executive privilege suggests that they were both personally involved in the planning and execution of the insurrection and says the committee will, quote, get to the bottom of that.

Here to discuss is Joshua Green, the author of Devil's Bargain, Steve Bannon, Donald Trump and the Nationalist Uprising. He's also a National Correspondent for Bloomberg Businessweek. Good to have you with us this morning.

Those comments from Liz Cheney were direct, to put it mildly, that assessment. And those are not words that one would say lightly. There's something behind that, I would imagine, perhaps -- I don't know if it's a motivation, but what do you think Steve Bannon is taking from that based, on your experience?

JOSHUA GREEN, NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, BLOOMBERG BUSINESSWEEL: I mean, based on discussions I've had with him over the last couple of months, I don't think Steve Bannon is particularly bothered by those comments from Liz Cheney or anybody in the committee. He doesn't recognize its validity. He doesn't feel as though he's in a situation to be pressured by them, unlike a typical ex-White House official, Bannon doesn't have a high-profile corporate job, he doesn't serve on boards of directors. So, he doesn't have to worry about a stain on his reputation. He sees this as part of a political fight and believes that the contempt charge is only going to enhance his standing in the eyes of Donald Trump and Trump supporters. And that's what Bannon is most interested in doing.

SCIUTTO: Well, he can think that way just fine, and we saw, by the way, he didn't seem to have much respect for the electoral system either based on his statements. Looking at what Cheney said, we should note, this doesn't come from nowhere. I want to play for an audience what Steve Bannon said January 5th, one day before the insurrection. I want to get your sense, Joshua, how this fits in. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE BANNON, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE POLITICAL ADVISER: All hell is going to break loose tomorrow. Just understand this, all hell is going to break loose tomorrow.

It's not going to happen like you think it's going to happen, okay? It's going to be quite extraordinary different. All I can say is strap in. The war room posse, you've made this happen. And tomorrow, it's game day. So strap in.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SCIUTTO: All hell is going to break loose, he said. Based on your interactions with Bannon and what you know about him, do you believe there's evidence that he knew about plans for January 6th or perhaps participated in some way?

GREEN: Well, I think that's typical Bannon hyperbole but I do think he participated in a sense that, as he said, his podcast listeners, his posse, those are the types of people, the actual people that showed up on January 6th.

Now, whether or not Bannon knew they were going to storm the Capitol and create the insurrection, the violence that we saw on January 6th, I don't know. But, certainly, he was doing everything within his power to foment a kind of uprising that he hoped would make Biden appear to be an illegitimate president and somehow find a way to get Trump back in power.

He was quite open about with reporters at the time, before and after. As you heard in the podcast, he was saying it publicly. So, I think there's not a lot of mystery as to where he stands.

HILL: When we look at what else is happening in terms of January 6th, we have this latest moves by Donald Trump's attorneys, which is not surprising, frankly. As Jim and I have discussed many times, this is a well-worn page out of his playbook.

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That said, really Steve Bannon seems to be following his lead as well in taking on this -- muck things up as much as I can, let's delay, delay, delay. And there is some sense, even some concern that maybe this might work especially given what Democrats are facing next year when it comes to midterm elections.

GREEN: Yes, I think that's exactly right. I mean, essentially the pressure you hear from the committee and from Democrats is their attempt to try and get Bannon to play by Congress' rules. Bannon's spurning of this subpoena is his rebuttal, his way of saying, no, I'm not going to do that.

I think part of Bannon's bet is that there are enough open legal questions that he can delay these proceedings until next year when a lot of people, including Bannon, expect that Republicans are going to win back the House of Representatives and shut down the committee.

I think Kevin McCarthy just said this morning to CNN that he didn't recognize the validity of the committee. I think that's a strongest signal as any that if Republicans do take back power, they'll do everything they can to shut this down.

SCIUTTO: Well, again, you can say he doesn't respect it but it exists by law. And they have powers now and they can investigate this at least right up to November of next year.

GREEN: That's absolutely right. And I think part of that also is that the Department of Justice, Biden's DOJ, may not be willing to move ahead with criminal contempt, or at least not on a timeline that Bannon seems to think is worrisome. But, of course, as you say, I mean, this is a gamble that he's taking. There's a reason that most people don't take this route and that the other three people who have been subpoenaed not openly spurned it to the degree that he has.

SCIUTTO: Joshua Green, thanks very much.

Still ahead this hour, record truck driver shortages, ships stuck in ports, no end in sight to supply chain woes. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg joins us next live on what the administration is doing to fix things.

And there is lots going on today. Here's what to watch.

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