Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Democrats Nearing Deal on Infrastructure Bill?; Items Belonging to Brian Laundrie Found. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired October 20, 2021 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:01:17]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Top of the hour. I'm Victor Blackwell.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: And I'm Alisyn Camerota with breaking news.

FBI agents say items of interest were found at the Carlton Reserve in the search for Brian Laundrie, he, of course, the missing fiance of Gabby Petito.

BLACKWELL: We know the Sarasota County medical examiner and a cadaver dog are on the scene.

Let's go to CNN's Randi Kaye, who is live in North Port Florida. Also with us, CNN correspondent Jean Casarez.

Randi, first. Any description, anything more specific than articles about what was found?

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So far, Victor, no. We just know that these items, these articles were found.

According to the family attorney, these are articles that belong to Brian Laundrie. They were found just off a hiking trail here in the Myakkahatchee Environmental Creek Park here behind me.

This is the entrance to the Carlton Reserve, which is where authorities have been searching for Brian Laundrie since September 17, since his family directed them here, saying that this is where he came to hike. So it's unclear what was found, but we know that the family was in their early this morning after alerting authorities that they were going to come here and search for him.

The park just opened yesterday. So the family came here this morning, along with law enforcement who was trailing behind them, and they found these items just off one of these hiking trails. We don't know what they were.

We do know, though, as you mentioned, that the coroner is on scene. That has not happened here in the search for Brian Laundrie yet in this last month or so. We also know that there is a human remains detection dog here, along with two spotters. This is a dog that only searches for decomposing bodies, does not alert for anyone who's alive or on the run or missing or for dead animals, strictly a decomposing human body.

So I spoke with the Pasco County Sheriff's Department, and they said that they were just called this morning to come here with that human remains detection dog to help in the search. And, as you know, the FBI is on the scene. We saw a very large trailer go in behind us. Unclear what that is as well.

There is one North Port police SUV just at the entrance here behind me. But, again, we have aerials so we can see the dog working in that area, but it's unclear what exactly is happening inside. The FBI says that the reserve right now is closed. This area is closed to the public.

So, clearly, they are processing the scene -- Victor, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Jean, the timing here is so curious. We know that they have been looking, authorities have been looking for Brian Laundrie for a month.

And then last night his parents call the FBI and they say, by the way, tomorrow morning, we want to go to that very park and look for our son, and, lo and behold, they find his belongings after looking for a month? I mean, help us understand the timing.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is what we're understanding from the family attorney.

The FBI out of Tampa has just tweeted and confirming items of interest have been found. And the FBI evidence response team, they are processing. They don't say who, though. They just say items of interest. But it is very, very coincidental. I mean, it's just ironic.

However, the family from the beginning has said, we believe he's there. We know the areas where he would frequent, the trails that he enjoyed to hike upon. But it was about a week ago that the father actually went out with law enforcement to show them exactly, he liked this, he liked that, he liked -- and they had a dog out at that time and they did search those trails.

So this would be going back to those areas that conceivably Brian Laundrie's father said that Brian frequented .

BLACKWELL: All right, Jean, Randi, stay with us.

[15:05:01]

I want to bring in now a forensic scientist, Lawrence Kobilinsky, to join the conversation.

Lawrence, good to have you.

First, when we consider that the medical examiner has been called out, this is not a person who searches, right? What would be from -- concluding from that this person is now on scene how far along into this search they are?

DR. LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, PROFESSOR OF FORENSIC SCIENCE, JOHN JAY COLLEGE OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE: Well, I do think that this medical examiner comes from Sarasota. He's the county medical examiner.

And I think it would be very, very odd for police to call the medical examiner without having remains at the scene. Finding clothing is a very significant factor. But there's no need for a medical examiner here, unless they did, in fact, find the human remains, either complete remains or partial remains, because this was a site exposed to the environment and to animals.

Animals are known to pull body -- parts of bodies, pieces away from the main torso. And that could be why the cadaver dogs are at the scene. This may not be a complete set of remains. And they're trying to put the pieces together.

But it seems to me you would not have a medical examiner present at the scene unless there were human remains that were found, perhaps by the cadaver dogs. It does seem a bit odd, as Jean Casarez pointed out, to have these parents come back and they're the ones who find this clothing, when the police have been looking for so many weeks now?

It just seems very, very odd. And I would really like to know a little bit more about the status of the clothing, what the clothing appears to look like. Does it look like it's been weathered for many weeks? Or is it relatively fresh? Does it have bloodstain on it that would indicate some kind of violence or trauma or something of that sort?

BLACKWELL: Yes.

KOBILINSKY: Was it exposed water and for how long?

BLACKWELL: I just want to be clear about what we know and what we don't know, is that we know that there are articles that have been discovered. There are items. Investigators have not said if this is clothing, if it's a backpack, if it's camping supplies.

They just know that these are items that belonged to...

CAMEROTA: Articles of interest.

BLACKWELL: Articles of interest that might have belonged to him, but nothing specific on what exactly it is.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

Randi, about where you are at that park, you were saying that it had -- it was closed. Has it been closed for the past month to the public while they have been searching? Or what's the status been?

KAYE: It has been closed. It just reopened yesterday.

And this is the area -- this is why it's so important. This is the very spot, this entrance, it serves as this -- Myakkahatchee Environmental Park serves as one of the entrances to this Carlton Reserve, which is this -- basically a 25,000-acre swamp filled with you name it, alligators, bobcats, Florida panthers.

So this has been closed during the search. But what's key about this location is that, on September 13, apparently, this is according to the Laundrie family attorney, Brian had come here. Brian's father had then come here. And this was the last day that they say they saw him, the parents.

They came here to search for him, the father did, on September 13. And then on September 14 is when North Port police found the family Mustang parked here at this entrance and tagged it as an abandoned vehicle. And then the parents came back that night and saw the car. This is all according to the family attorney.

And then the next day, on the 15th, they came back and drove the car home. So this puts -- this is the only piece of evidence that puts Brian Laundrie here. Or at least a family member somebody from the Laundrie family put a car, their car, here at this entrance.

Again, they -- I have been told by North Port police that, until today, they had not found a single piece of evidence that Brian Laundrie was in this reserve, was in this park. They didn't find a footprint. They didn't find a backpack. They didn't find any article of clothing.

BLACKWELL: And, Jean, Randi points out here the size of this reserve, close to 25,000 acres.

And it's important to point out that the terrain is not static, right? There are storms that come. There are animals that live there that move things. I mean, so this is -- it may not be identical to when potentially they searched this specific area before.

CASAREZ: No, that's true. The environmental conditions can change.

I mean, this is about a month, right, since they began to search for him in that area. So they definitely can. They have had the buggies that are elevated. Sarasota County, they are elevated, so they can go through the swampland.

It's very interesting when we look at all this, because this is the area they have focused on from the beginning. And the resources that they have put in this area from so many enforcement agencies are quite amazing.

[15:10:03]

And, finally, today, ironically, when the parents say that they're going out there, because it's open to the public now. So they went out as public citizens wanting to search for their son. And they or they and law enforcement, according to the family attorney, found these articles of interest, some items, but it is plural. It's not singular. It's plural.

CAMEROTA: Lawrence, as Randi and Jean have just been educating all of us, you only call a cadaver dog to identify human remains. You're not looking for a live human being. This isn't a dog that is trying to chase the scent of somebody on the run. This is for human remains.

And so can we conclude that they wouldn't have called this dog that we see in this aerial view unless they had found human remains?

KOBILINSKY: I think that is very likely, although dogs can be called even without a body present.

They may clue in law enforcement to different items of evidence, clothing, backpacks, things of that sort. So I wouldn't say that the dogs are a certain indication that there is a body present. But I do think the fact that the medical examiner was called in, that tells me that there are remains at the scene.

It's yet to be confirmed, but I believe it will be confirmed.

BLACKWELL: All right, we're still waiting for the latest there at the scene, several agencies there, including the FBI, they have confirmed.

Lawrence Kobilinsky, Jean Casarez, Randi Kay, thank you all.

CAMEROTA: OK, now to Washington.

Democrats appear to be nearing a deal on the president's signature spending bill. How close are they to the finish line? We have that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:16:30]

CAMEROTA: President Biden is set to leave for Scranton, Pennsylvania, this hour to pitch his social safety net plan. It is still a work in progress on Capitol Hill. And negotiations for that sweeping bill seem to be progressing at this hour.

BLACKWELL: President Biden has floated now a $1.75 trillion to $1.9 trillion price tag. That was closer to what some of the hesitant moderates want.

CNN chief congressional correspondent Manu Raju is following the negotiations.

So, what's the latest, Manu?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're still discussing it. They still don't have a deal yet. But the hope among the Democratic leaders is that they can bring their party together, both the moderates and progressives, behind this negotiation that's been going on for months to get a deal behind some sort of outline, a framework, as they call it, over this larger plan.

Initially, it was $3.5 trillion. Now they're talking about something around the $1.9 trillion range, although some progressives are pushing for more money. But they're going to see progressive demands also fall short because of pushback from models like Joe Manchin, Kyrsten Sinema, who don't want to spend nearly that much and want to also pare back on the number of benefits that are in this program.

Now, as part of this proposal, it includes a number of issues that are still, we understand, on the table, including universal pre-K, an expansion of Medicare, more money to provide for Affordable Care Act subsidies. That's on the health care side, but things that could fall by the wayside, including tuition free community college.

That had been something that a number of progressive had pushed. That looks like it is unlikely to get into this plan. Other issues as well. This expansion of the child tax credit, some Democrats wanted to make that permanent, or at least make it five years, but we are hearing it will probably be one year, and also paid family leave from the White House and a lot of Democrats that wanted 12 weeks to provide paid family leave to individuals.

That is likely to be pared back down to four weeks. Now, nevertheless, despite these changes, we are hearing an acceptance among Democrats who believe that it's time to get behind something. It may not be everything they want, but it's at least what they ultimately can agree on and they should essentially pass this.

But still we -- there are still a lot of questions. Well, how do they deal with the issue of climate change, a huge sticking point, a big priority for a number of the liberals? Joe Manchin, for one, has projected the push to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 50 percent over the next decade.

They're looking at alternatives to appease him and appease the left. So those are the discussions that are still ongoing. But the hope is that they can get there by Friday, they can get an agreement on all sides. And that can also pave the way for passage of that separate infrastructure bill, $1.2 trillion, and perhaps that can get through the Senate -- the House if they can get to that point.

So a lot of questions still, but talks are progressing.

CAMEROTA: OK, Manu.

So, also, at the same time, we hear that any minute now the Senate will be voting on a major voting rights bill. So what's the status? What do we expect to happen there?

RAJU: Yes, they're voting right now.

Right, now the tally is 48 no-vote, 43 yes-votes. We don't expect this to get the necessarily 60 votes that they need. In fact, right now, they have no chance they can get that. That was not expected, because Republicans are voting en masse, in unison against that voting plan, this bill to rewrite election, voting laws.

Democrats say it's necessary to push back against the efforts at the state levels to restrict voting. Republicans say this would essentially federalize election laws that should be left to the states. So you're seeing a significant partisan divide.

This is essentially going to become an issue that will be litigated on the campaign trail, but it has no chance of becoming law. Kamala Harris, the vice president, did come back to preside over this vote, at least at the beginning of it, but, ultimately, their efforts to convince Republicans failed.

[15:20:00]

And now it's going to up to the voters to decide what should be done next -- guys.

BLACKWELL: All right, Manu Raju watching it all on Capitol Hill for us, thank you.

RAJU: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: OK, let's bring in Dana Bash.

She's the co-anchor of "STATE OF THE UNION" and our CNN chief congressional correspondent, political correspondent, something, something impressive, Dana. I just know that much.

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: Dana, great to see you.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: You too. Hi, guys.

CAMEROTA: So I want to talk about both things, the substance of this bill and where it is, and also the parlor game of who's caving, because, actually, we followed both of those for months. And I just think it's interesting where we are today.

So here's what we know, what's still in this big safety net package, funding, more funding for housing, Medicare expansion to include the vision and the hearing and I think the dental that was such an issue for some reason of contention, and Affordable Care Act funding to finance subsidies for three years.

And there's more. And isn't it interesting, Dana, that, I mean, we have heard -- we have both -- we have all interviewed so many progressives who have said, no, something's not better than nothing. We're sticking to our guns. And then, today, it feels as though something has shifted. And they're getting to a finish line where maybe they are going to compromise on more things. So how did we get here?

BASH: We got here through extremely intense, extremely visible sausage-making.

The sausage-making is -- are the negotiations. Of course, progressives have said, and understandably so, that they're not going to budge, because why would they budge until they have to? As more than one has said to me, why would I negotiate with myself? Fair point.

Same goes with the moderates. The difference between even Monday and today is, it's very clear from talking to sources and from hearing from our reporters both covering the White House and Capitol Hill that the White House is putting the screws on their fellow Democrats to say, OK, we basically have a sense from you progressives of where you can and can't go, from you moderate to where you can and can't go.

Let's put meat on this. Let's explain and get to the details of this, and that they're starting to shake out. And that is what is most important here is what the programs and the policies are that add up to those numbers that are hard to digest, I mean, over a trillion dollars, $2 trillion.

It's a lot of money. And so those are the negotiations that have been going on, but you're starting to see more evidence, according to sources, about which ones are going to absolutely stick, like, for example, universal pre-K. We kind of knew that. That's something that Joe Manchin, for example, has been for since the beginning.

Things that might go away, like college -- tuition-free community college. That might not happen right now. And that is really what matters. And that is the most important thing from the White House, talking to them, and one of the things that you can be sure that the president is going to try to make clear over and over in his town hall tomorrow night.

This isn't just about Democratic infighting. This is about what they're actually going to accomplish once it's done -- and they are confident that it will get done -- for the various sectors of the population that will be directly affected by these new policies.

BLACKWELL: Yes, so we talked about policies.

Let me ask you about the overall number, because in the discussion of compromise, it looks like one side is doing the compromising. So, Chairman Sanders started at $6 trillion back in the spring. Then the progressive came down to 3.5. Then Pramila Jayapal said 2.5 to 2.9. Then the president said, can you meet me at 1.9 to 2.2?

Now he comes down at 1.75 to 1.5 being his floor. Joe Manchin has been at $1.5 trillion for months. Is there an indication that he is moving or at this point that he really needs to?

BASH: Well, he would argue and has argued both to me and to other people that he came from zero dollars, that he was for the infrastructure bill that passed in a large bipartisan way, the hard traditional infrastructure bill, but on these issues, he didn't feel and still doesn't feel like it's time to do these broad policy changes that the president is so intent on doing.

And so he says, well, I came from zero to 1.5. And now I'm going up a little bit.

And progressives, of course, as you said -- Bernie Sanders actually had like a $7 trillion bill, knowing full well that that was never going to happen, but why not start there? He's the Budget chair and he's Bernie Sanders. He can do that.

So there was an understanding that they would get someplace in the middle. But, again, there is a psychological part of this, kind of like when you go and buy something, it's easier to swallow if it's $1.99, rather than $2 and a cent. It's just something about seeing the numbers.

But the onus in talking -- I talked to Democrat after Democrat about this. The onus is on them both in Congress once this is done and on the White House to explain to explain way beyond these numbers that this is about real people.

[15:25:10]

And it is a big challenge, because that is not the conversation that they're having as they're doing these negotiations.

BLACKWELL: Yes, even if this bill stays at $1.5 trillion, or gets to that point, it'll totally be more than a $4.5 trillion investment...

BASH: That's a lot of money. That is a lot of money.

BLACKWELL: ... when you consider infrastructure and the Rescue Plan, in less than a year.

BASH: Yes.

BLACKWELL: Dana Bash, good to have you.

BASH: Nice to see you guys.

CAMEROTA: You too.

BLACKWELL: All right, now, President Biden will discuss this legislative agenda and take questions from the American people during a CNN town hall with Anderson Cooper. It airs tomorrow night at 8:00 right here on CNN.

Also, new guidance on boosters could impact millions of Americans. And the White House is preparing for a massive rollout of vaccines for children as young as 5.

That's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:30:00]