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CDC Vaccine Advisers Meeting on Moderna and J&J Booster Doses, Mixing and Matching Boosters; Democrats Grapple Over Scaled-Back Social Safety Net Plan; Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) Speaks as Democrats Negotiate Over Spending Deal. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired October 21, 2021 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:30:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: Right now, the CDC's independent vaccine advisory committee is meeting to discuss the FDA's authorization of Moderna and Johnson & Johnson booster shots.

ERICA HILL, CNN NEWSROOM: The panel will also discuss this so-called mix and match approach to booster doses. The surgeon general says they're still trying to determine how often boosters may be needed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. VIVEK MURTHY, SURGEON GENERAL: What we're going to be continuing to look at over time after people get their boosters is whether there is an increase in breakthrough illness.

But I will tell you that it's very possible that three shots might end up being the primary series that lasts for years. It's possible there may be regular boosters that are required, kind of like the flu shot on an annual basis. At this point, nobody knows for sure. Time will tell.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Time will tell because it's new, because we follow the science, right?

CNN's Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta joining us now.

So, Sanjay, As we look at this, the FDA has signed off on boosters for Moderna and Johnson & Johnson, also allowing this mix and match approach. For folks who are thinking about getting a booster, what do they need to know this morning?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think what they have been doing at the FDA and we'll hear from the CDC is specifically sort of define who is going to benefit the most from the boosters. And the way to think about this is that the vaccines work really well, but for a percentage of people, even though they have been vaccinated, they can develop severe illness and hospitalization and sadly death. So if you take a look specifically at the criteria that the FDA put forth, they define it as people over the age of 65. They say people who are adults but are at risk of severe disease, which, by the way, is a really large population in this country, people who have heart disease, diabetes, chronic kidney disease, moderate asthma, obesity, you're talking 150, 170 million people potentially there.

And then, finally, people at risk of frequent exposures, frontline workers, health care workers, people like that. That's going to sound very familiar because that's exactly what they also authorize for the Pfizer vaccine. Six months between the boosters -- between the shots for Pfizer and Moderna.

[10:35:04]

Johnson & Johnson is about 15 million in this country received that shot, they also commented on that, which a lot of people have been waiting for, basically saying anyone 18 and older can get the Johnson & Johnson booster and wait at least two months. Okay. So that's the little distinction there.

Mix and match-wise, it's very interesting. They say that not only does it appear safe and okay to use a shot other than the one that you received initially but there might, in fact, be some benefit to it because you're stimulating slightly different parts of the immune system by taking a different shot. So, you really don't need to probably worry about what the second or third shot is that you're getting, if you're getting one of these boosters. And just wait at least two months. You want to give enough interval after the Johnson & Johnson and wait at least six months again after the mRNA, that's the Pfizer and Moderna shots.

One thing I just want to say quickly, the vast majority of severe illness, hospitalization and death is still very much among the unvaccinated. Boosters are important, but when we talk about the next few months, this is an unvaccinated problem primarily.

SCIUTTO: I'm glad you made that point. The data is so clear.

Just one more question on boosters as we move in that direction. Pfizer, it announced its data, I mean, really just off the charts. 95.6 percent efficacy against COVID, this in a phase three trial. What's the significance of that?

GUPTA: Yes. I mean, I think what this is showing basically is that when they got this booster -- and, by the way, I think we should call it a third shot for people who are immune compromised and didn't have a significant antibody response in the first place. A booster shot for people who have normal, not weakened immune systems, so just in terms of the terminology.

But what they did, they basically studied 10,000 people. Some of them got the booster in this case, some got a placebo. And what they founding was the chance of developing a breakthrough infection with any kind of symptoms at all, even mild symptoms, was about -- they had about 95, as you said, percent protection against that. So, that's the sort of case that they're making for the booster shot.

Again, the vaccines, as they stand right now, work really well against severe disease. This was 95 percent or 96 percent protection against any symptoms at all.

SCIUTTO: Wow, that's remarkable. Well, follow the data. The data appears to be good. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much.

GUPTA: You got it, thank you.

SCIUTTO: Coming up next, we do expect to hear from House Speaker Nancy Pelosi any moment. That's the podium there live on the Hill. How realistic is it to get moderate Democrats on board with the president's plan this week? The latest deadline (ph), we're going to speak with Democratic Congressman Tim Ryan.

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[10:40:00]

SCIUTTO: Just minutes from now, we do expect to hear from House Speaker Nancy Pelosi right there at that podium as negotiations continue among Democrats under President Biden's social safety net package, and some signs it may be reaching the finish line.

This comes as the president ramping up his public push for what is now a scaled-back spending plan, expected to make a big public sales pitch tonight in a CNN town hall.

Joining me now to discuss is Democratic Congressman Tim Ryan of Ohio. Congressman, thanks so much for taking the time this morning.

REP. TIM RYAN (D-OH): Always good to be with you.

SCIUTTO: All right. We've been here before where folks have talked about a putative deadline, but we are starting to hear coalescing around something in the next 48 hours. Steny Hoyer says he believes that's possible. Jon Tester, Democratic senator, he believes it will be done by Friday. Can you state confidently in your view the Democrats will at least have a framework deal by the end of this week?

RYAN: I wouldn't say confidently but cautiously optimistic that things are coming together. And, look, this is going to be an impactful thing for working families. I mean, this is huge. I think this should have been done 30 or 40 years ago. You're talking about a huge tax cut for families, middle class families, working class families who go out there and do everything right. You're talking about universal preschool. You're talking about community college. It's to be determined what's in there. But what we're trying to do is put money in the pockets of people and get this country ready to outcompete China. And that's what's at stake here so we've got to get this thing done.

SCIUTTO: So, you just describe it this bill in a way there that is frankly not been branded that way, right? I mean, it's been talked about based on the top line figure, $3.5 trillion, now around $2 trillion as a big budget deal, et cetera. Not as a tax cut with the child tax credit, not as the expansion, for instance of universal pre- K. You ran for president in 2016 arguing that Democrats have to run on the economy, have to have an economic message. Have they failed -- in 2020, I should say. Has your party failed to do so effectively?

RYAN: Yes. I think a lot of the conversations have gotten lost in the number and the process. We've got to focus on how this is going to help people. And, again, in my mind this is about putting money in people's pockets and outcompeting China, period, that's it. And you go through all of the items in there, again, paid family leave, capping child care expenses, investing in education, the new economy so that we can manufacture and make things again here, like electric vehicles, batteries, charging stations, wind, solar. We can completely resuscitate the manufacturing base and resuscitate the middle class with this bill and help families again doing everything right.

[10:45:08]

And to not talk about it in that way I think is a mistake because it sells itself. And whether you're Democrat, Republican, independent, people need help. They need broadband, they need lower child care costs, they need early childhood education, and that's what we're doing here, delivering for them. And so once we get it passed, then we should go out and be very clear on how we talk about it.

SCIUTTO: Okay. One of the latest significant hurdles from Democratic Senator Kyrsten Sinema, who apparently opposes tax increases either on corporations or on high earners, Democrats discussing other ways to fund the bill. Honestly, is there a way without fuzzy math to pay for this, some $2 trillion, without raising some taxes?

RYAN: No. I mean, you know, look, CEO pay from 1970 until today has gone up 1,300 percent. That is 1,300 percent, huge concentration of wealth. We just saw that the top 10 percent of the wealthiest people in the country own 90 percent of the stocks in the country. I mean, there's been this huge concentration of wealth. So I think it's bad economics and it's immoral not to ask those people to pay more in taxes. It won't affect their life one iota. And then we're going to help seniors pay for their glasses on the Medicare program or pay for their hearing aids or make sure that a two-parent family where they're both working, they don't have to pay egregious amounts of money to take care of their kids, or that if you get sick, you can have paid family leave.

Jim, this is -- this is a no-brainer, an absolute no-brainer. Ask those CEOs who have gotten 1,300 percent pay increase in the last 30 or 40 or 50 years to help middle class families get some breathing room. It's a no-brainer, we've got to pass this thing and get it done.

SCIUTTO: Listen, no-brainer for your, but sadly not for enough, it appears, Democratic senators, which you need. One of the biggest pullbacks right now is on the child tax credit. You said making it permanent is a no-brainer. Now, they're talking just about a one-year extension and Joe Manchin may insist on a work requirement for it. If that's the best you could get, would you vote on a budget that just has a one-year extension with a work requirement? RYAN: Well, I'm not going to speculate. I want to see what comes back. But an extension of the first middle class, working class tax cut in decades is something that's very important for us to keep and to extend. And I want to make it permanent. But, again, nobody gets everything they want so we'll see what the extension is. And I think it's important because it's putting money in millions of people's pockets. It's lifting kids out of poverty. Again, we need to be cutting taxes for working people and asking the wealthiest to pay more.

And, of course, we want everybody to be out working. If you're an able-bodied American, you need to be out there working hard and contributing to the economy. Look, we've got this huge competition against China. We can't have everybody on the sidelines. We've got to have everybody in the game wearing that Team USA jersey ready to rock and roll.

SCIUTTO: Congressman Tim Ryan, I should also mention candidate for Senate in your home state in the next cycle, thanks very much for joining us.

RYAN: Thanks, Jim.

HILL: Still ahead, the former Minneapolis police officer convicted of killing a woman who called 911 for help back in court this hour and was just resentenced. Those details, next.

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[10:50:00]

SCIUTTO: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, a live update on budget negotiations. Let's listen in.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): -- taking us to nearly universal coverage in our country. Another bucket is the family care piece of that, children learning, parents earning, especially moms, but dads too who have responsibilities in the home. With the child tax credit, child care/universal pre-K, they go together, home health care, paid family medical leave, workplace development and housing, to name a few of the aspects of that, and, again, very important to our children.

These are jobs issues, health and jobs. Family issues and jobs, and now climate, helping achieve the president's vision to cut emissions in half by 2030, advancing environmental justice, that's a very important part of all of this for the president, justice, and creating good paying, clean energy jobs. So, it's about the health of our children, the air they breathe, the water they drink. It's about jobs, creating good paying, green jobs to make us preeminent in the world. And it's about a security issue, as our experts, our security experts tell us, competition for habitat and resources in time of drought and the rest and the migration it contributes to, other natural disasters. It's a national security issue and of course always a moral issue to pass this plan in the best possible way on to future generations.

[10:55:06] Children understand that much better than some of our colleagues on the other side of the aisle, in fact.

So, this will, build back better, achieves a better future for workers, their families and their children, creating good-paying jobs, giving a tax cut, a big tax cut to the middle class, lowering costs for families and making the wealthiest -- let the wealthiest and corporations pay their fair share. So this legislation will be paid for. In fact, it may be more than paid for. Again, it's transformative, it's historic, it's life-changing, and it will pass soon.

Again, everything that the Congressional Democrats do is our title for the people, but, sadly, Senate Republicans continue to stand in the way. Yesterday, yesterday was such a sad day. Senate Republicans voted to aid and abet the most dangerous campaign of voter suppression since Jim Crow, as they blocked a vote on the Freedom to Vote Act, hurting their own constituents and dishonoring the sanctity of the vote in our Constitution.

The stakes could not be higher. State lawmakers have introduced 425 voter suppression bills in 49 states in the 2021 sessions alone. A number of them have become law. And they must be overturned and this legislation would do that. It would not only end the voter suppression laws but it would end their vote nullification laws. They're there to overturn the results of an election. Really?

House Democrats have passed HR-1, which is now the bill that I mentioned in the Senate, the Freedom to Vote Act, as modified in the Senate. It's a good bill, HR-4, the John Lewis Voting Rights Act. And today when I leave here, I'll go out this door and go to the tenth anniversary of Emma K. Memorial dedication. Ten years it's been.

Imagine, Martin Luther King was 58 years ago, nearly 60 years ago when he stood near that place and talked about justice and democracy and the beautiful speech, I had a dream speech, and the fierce urgency of now. Now, Martin Luther King is there on the mall, as John Lewis called it, America's front yard, with Washington and Lincoln and Jefferson, presidents of the United States and Reverend Martin Luther King. So, we'll go down there and then honoring Dr. King, of course, being inspired by his work and words to protect the ballot.

Meanwhile, here on the Hill, the select committee on January 6th continues its work, this week, unanimously on a bipartisan basis voting to hold one of the past president's advisers to contempt for failing to comply with congressional subpoena. The committee is seeking information from Bannon that is central to the investigative and legislative purpose, to investigate the January 6th domestic terrorist attack that was intended to interfere with the peaceful constitutional transfer of power, and then see what legislation is necessary that springs from that.

According to published reports, Bannon had specific knowledge about the events of January 6th before they occurred and had multiple roles relevant to the attack and very outspoken about it. Today, on the House -- today on the floor, the House will vote to approve this contempt resolution led by the committee to find the truth.

Okay. So everything that, again, we've got the -- everything the congressional -- the sanctity of the vote, the assault on the Constitution and meeting the needs of the people, we have a busy, busy few days here.

Any questions?

REPORTER: Madam speaker, on Bannon, why is it important that Republicans vote to hold him in contempt?

PELOSI: Well, because they take an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. The genius of our Constitution and of our founders was the separation of power, checks and balances. If, in fact, you want to negate the ability of one check of another branch of government over another, then you are undermining the Constitution. So, this goes beyond Bannon in terms of its importance.

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