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Movie Set Shooting Investigation; Interview With Sen. Chris Coons (D-DE); Infrastructure Negotiations. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired October 28, 2021 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:01]

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: And they felt that it was a duty of that -- the police officers on the scene to render help to George Floyd when he needed and -- needed it, and they did not do it.

So it came down to what the officers didn't do, rather than what they did do.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Yes. I mean, I think we even heard that during the trial from that emergency -- the ambulance worker. I'm forgetting her name.

Was that jury not sequestered? Was -- is that...

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: ... controversial?

LEMON: It's not sequestered, yes. And that's going to be part of Derek Chauvin's appeal, is that the jury should have been sequestered.

But the jury said they didn't watch media, they didn't -- they didn't take into account...

CAMEROTA: Because they were instructed not, and they followed that?

LEMON: Not to. They said the last thing they wanted to do when they get home was to dial in again about what was happening in the trial because they were so exhausted.

They picked the right jury here, because they were so, as I said, dialed into what was happening, but also they acted on the evidence and not emotion. And that was key in this case, and the evidence obviously overwhelming. The video certainly helped them make their case.

CAMEROTA: Can't wait to see it.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: Don, thank you. Great to see you at this hour. Very rare sighting. Very rare sighting.

(CROSSTALK) LEMON: ... see both of you.

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: Be sure to watch Don's interview with the seven jurors from the Derek Chauvin trial. It all begins tonight at 10:00 only on CNN.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Start of a brand-new hour. Good to be with you. I'm Victor Blackwell.

CAMEROTA: I'm Alisyn Camerota.

We begin with the Democrats' intense scramble under way right now to save the president's domestic agenda. In a last-minute pitch before he left for Europe, the president visited Capitol Hill to push his pared- down Build Back Better Act.

A source says that Biden told House Democrats today that his presidency and the party's control of Congress -- quote -- "will be determined by what happens in the next week."

BLACKWELL: But progressives continue their pushback. They say they need to see the actual words on paper to determine if they will back the spending bill, which no longer contains paid family and medical leave, in a bid to gain support from moderates.

Now, a few minutes ago, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi announced this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): We're on a path to get this done.

But for those who said I want to see text, the text is there for you to review, for you to complain about, for you to add to, to subtract from, whatever it is. And we will see what consensus emerges from that.

But we're really very much on the path.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: CNN's Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill. Phil Mattingly is in Rome following the president.

Manu, a lot has happened, fast-moving parts here. Give us the state of play right now.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, uncertainty, but Democratic leaders pushing ahead to get least get one aspect of the Biden agenda through, that infrastructure bill, $1.2 trillion, to put money into roads, bridges, waterways, broadband.

That passed the Senate in August. It has been waiting, actually, in the House ever since. But it's been held up because progressives have demanded that larger bill to expand the social safety net, they have wanted that bill to go forward. Now, they have had to make a number of compromises.

Today, when the president announced a $1.75 trillion compromise, it did not include a number of the things they have been pushing for, paid leave, for instance, being one of them, expanding Medicare to include dental, vision, and health. This includes just dental.

A number of other issues as well. But it did have a number of programs that they are in favor of, dealing with -- about $500 billion or so for dealing with climate change, as well as expanding universal pre-K to children, as -- and a number of other health care provisions, bolstering the Affordable Care Act, and Medicaid.

But is that enough to get the progressives on board and say that they are OK with green-lighting and letting go that other part of the agenda, that infrastructure bill, getting it through the House?

Nancy Pelosi is pushing to get that infrastructure bill out of the House tonight. She wants her caucus to do this to not -- quote -- "embarrass the president" as he lands overseas for a critical conference. But I asked her just moments ago, why not wait, give it a few more days, maybe even a week, because, at that point, perhaps the progressives can fall in line?

But she indicated she's pushing ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So, why not just wait, delay it for a few days, a week, whatever, in order to move these bills at the same time? Why are you insisting on having this infrastructure vote today?

PELOSI: Well, we have had a target for this for a long time.

You have to remember that we planned for $3.5 trillion. We were totally ready. And I say this because I feel some level of responsibility for working everybody so hard to be on time for September 15. And then the rug was pulled out when they said, we're not going that high. And then we had to take it down.

But in the meantime, the clock did not stop ticking on the calendar.

October 31 is the date of expiration of the Highway Trust Fund. Then we made this the target date for us to get this done. We need certainty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So there is also a possibility of simply extending the Highway Trust Fund that expires at the end of this month, which is one deadline that they're pushing for to get this done initially.

But she does not want to have a simple extension. And she is trying to convince the progressives that having this bill now released, 2, 468 pages, that that should be enough to say, OK, this bill is eventually going to become law. Let's get at least the infrastructure bill done now. [15:05:13]

RAJU: But in talking to progressives, guys, they are just not there yet. One of them told me they want Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema to say they officially support this bill, they will vote for it.

But Joe Manchin, for one, told me that he's still in -- quote -- "good-faith negotiations," and he would not take a position on this proposal.

CAMEROTA: Oh, boy.

So, Phil, I mean, that you just heard Manu say that Speaker Pelosi had warned her caucus this morning not to embarrass the president by sending him empty-handed to Rome. So you're in Rome. What are the stakes for the president now?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The president isn't yet. And, obviously, work is going on, on Capitol Hill.

But, look, there's a very clear inherent risk to sending the president, your most powerful and potent weapon when it comes to legislative decisions moving forward when you control both chambers of Congress, up to Capitol Hill without knowing the outcome. That's kind of walking on a high wire without a net here.

And the reality is, given how complex the dynamics that Manu so wonderfully laid out currently are, the president being up there wasn't enough in and of itself. And I think the risk in that is, you land is Rome, you're meeting in two consecutive back-to-back international conferences with global leaders, and global leaders perhaps look at your domestic situation and wonder if you don't have the juice that maybe they thought that you did.

Here's the reality, though. I think when you talk to White House officials, and Manu knows this well, in talking to Democrats on Capitol Hill, at some point, they had to hit the gas. At some point, they had to move forward and try and muscle this through. They made the calculation based on weeks of intensive negotiations, really granular negotiations with those to holdout senators, that this was the point where they needed to move because of deadlines, because of international conferences, because of Virginia election.

This was the moment to start moving the process forward. And as Manu laid out, Speaker Pelosi is very, very convinced that this is something that needs to happen tonight and is moving and doing everything possible to make that happen.

And she and the president have been united with Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer throughout this process. No decisions have been made without the three of them signing off all together. That certainly happened in this case. And I think it makes very clear that the White House wants to move now and the White House believes in negotiations got to the point, the framework got to the point that this was the best time to go, given the deadlines and everything else that was laying in terms of dynamics that are in front of them at this moment in time, guys.

BLACKWELL: All right, Manu Raju, Phil Mattingly, thank you both.

Let's bring in now Democratic Senator Chris Coons of Delaware. He has already voted to pass the infrastructure bill that is stalled in the House, now, of course, waiting to see this language of the larger social safety net bill.

Senator, thanks for being with me.

So there's a lot of the celebratory tone, as we have been characterizing it now. Some of the progressives now backing, in theory, in principle, the framework, but is the celebration premature? We have not heard from Senator Manchin that he backs it, nor that Senator Sinema backs it either.

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): Well, I'm optimistic that we're going to see real progress, now that we have got a framework that has the support of the Democratic Caucus.

This is a framework that will make a generational investment in providing support for things like affordable high-quality day care, pre-K for 3- and 4-year-olds, for millions of Americans a broader and better access to quality health care, that will help with home health care for seniors and for Americans with disabilities.

I have been serving here in the Senate for just over a decade. I have never seen a moment as encouraging as this, when we are on the very verge of delivering significant expansions in support for the things that keep families up at night, for the things that, if we get this done, will improve in the health and the education and the quality of our families.

This also is an important investment in combating climate change.

(CROSSTALK)

BLACKWELL: You have been on the verge for weeks now, Senator.

COONS: I will remind you, $555 billion of this package is to combat climate change.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

COONS: And as our president goes to COP 26, that's a critical investment to make.

BLACKWELL: But, Senator, you have been on the verge for weeks.

Please explain to me or explain to the viewers how today is dramatically different than yesterday. You have still got the same noncommittal holdouts in Senator Manchin and Senator Sinema. Yes, you do now have progressives who are on board, but you don't have the votes that you need.

So was the risk this morning for the president to come up to the Hill to make the case, did it pay off? And how is today dramatically different?

COONS: Today's different because I have heard from both Senators Manchin and Sinema that they believe this is a framework they can work with, that this is a basis for us moving forward.

And, obviously, Speaker Pelosi and the president decided that they are in a position to go to the House caucus and say, pass the bipartisan infrastructure bill.

[15:10:00]

I will remind you, that bill will put $1.2 trillion into every state in the country, create 650,000 high-skilled high-wage jobs, and do some of the critical work in climate resiliency that we need done.

Yes, it's been weeks and weeks of our trying to work through the minutiae, the details of the Build Back Better agenda. But President Biden, in recent days, has been intimately, personally engaged in negotiating with Senator Sanders and Sinema and Manchin at his home in Delaware, in the White House.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

COONS: And I believe we have got a package that can succeed now.

And I, frankly, think it's going to give wind beneath the wings of our president as he goes to Europe to the G20. And it's, frankly, going to give us a lift in the upcoming Virginia governor's race.

BLACKWELL: I hear you there, Senator, but you say that you believe that Senator Manchin, this is a framework that he can get behind.

Senator Manchin won't address specifically if he backs it. He's got to read it. He also was not part of the caucus call on the framework. So I wonder where that confidence comes from.

But I want to move on to something the president said where he said that it's not hyperbole to say that the Democratic majorities in Congress and his presidency are on the line over what happens over the next week. Do you believe that's true as, still, there are holdouts on both sides?

COONS: We need to make progress.

Politics is the art of the possible, not the art of the perfect. And we need to show the American people that the decision a majority of Americans made to elect Joe Biden and to elect Democratic majorities in the House and Senate, although a razor-thin majority here in the Senate, were good choices.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

COONS: So we need to move forward on delivering on bills that will invest in dealing with the things that working families worry about, from pre-K, to health care costs, to child care, to housing, and delivering on the high-quality jobs that the infrastructure bill will make possible, and showing that the bipartisan effort that produced this infrastructure bill was an effort worth undertaking.

President Biden is asking us to help support him. And I'm confident that our caucus will deliver that help.

BLACKWELL: So, I'm still wondering, is there a vote? Are you informed? Have they been -- have you learned that there's going to be a vote on the infrastructure bill tonight?

I have gotten no commitment or heard from the speaker in her news conference that it's going to happen.

COONS: My understanding -- I'm in the Senate.

BLACKWELL: I understand that.

COONS: My understanding is that the House Rules Committee is beginning momentarily. And I have heard from a number of House colleagues that they expect there to be a vote on the infrastructure bill tonight.

My comment earlier that Senator Manchin has said, this is a framework I can work with, is based on a direct conversation with him. I understand that this has been a long and a difficult negotiating process. But he's negotiated in good faith with our president. And I think we have got a framework with which we can and should move forward.

BLACKWELL: So can you tell us more about this conversation with Senator Manchin that this is something he can work with? Are there still sticking points that would be problems for some of the progressives?

How does that move forward?

COONS: Look, I still haven't seen final text of what exactly are the decisions that have been made, which tax provisions are in or out, which climate and which spending provisions in detail are in or out.

This comes in at $1.95 trillion. That's an enormous amount of money. There's several hundred billion in here that is notionally dedicated, for example, to reducing the deficit and the debt, something that Senator Manchin has said is a priority to him.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

COONS: Any senator could say to you, should say to you, I haven't seen the final bill text yet, so I'm not committing to a vote until I see it, but this is a framework I can work with.

That's a very encouraging thing to hear from my colleagues, both from Senator Sanders and from Senators Manchin and Sinema and many others. Lots of us have issues that we are urgently pushing to make sure is in the final bill. But a bill this large comes through once in a generation.

And one of the things I hope your viewers will take from my comments is the optimism I have that this is making the kinds of investments that Democrats are committed to fighting for.

I will remind you, part of why we're watching so closely exactly what is said by a handful of senators...

BLACKWELL: Yes.

COONS: ... is that not one Republican is stepping forward to help us with pre-K, with paid family leave, with child care, with housing, with seniors, with home health care.

Democrats are doing this package on our own. And that's going to end up being the defining issue in the elections next year.

BLACKWELL: All right, Senator Chris Coons, it may be the defining issue in the election of Virginia in a couple of days. Thank you so much for being with us.

COONS: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: That was really interesting. He gave us some important information, that he had had those conversations with Senators Sinema and Manchin.

BLACKWELL: Yes, he's saying more to -- as we would expect or understand, that Senator Manchin is saying more to his colleague than he's saying publicly, because what we have seen from Manchin thus far is, he's noncommittal on the framework.

[15:15:06]

So, we will see if he supports it.

CAMEROTA: Joining us -- that's right.

Joining us now, we have CNN political commentator Mitch Landrieu, former Democratic mayor of New Orleans, and Jess McIntosh, who led communications for Hillary Clinton's campaign.

Great to see both of you.

MITCH LANDRIEU, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Nice to see you.

CAMEROTA: So, Mayor, so you just heard there that Senator Coons said he had had conversations that gives him optimism that Senators Landrieu (sic) and Sinema are on the right path. But, at the same time, we just heard from Congresswoman Cori Bush. She's on a different network, saying that she does not trust Senators Manchin and Sinema.

So where does that leave us?

LANDRIEU: Well, I think watching sausage being made is hard. But you're watching some folks engaged in what I call the hard work of governing.

And would ask the people to step back for a second. The president just left to represent us on the world stage. Our nation's security depends on us being strong both at home and abroad. And the president's agenda that he went -- basically went to the Hill to talk about for the first time he actually put the number on the table.

So this is about as close to getting a deal as you possibly can get. And I think Senator Coons, without divulging personal comment, conversations that he had with Senator Manchin, was letting you know that this is going to get done. Whether it gets done tonight or whether it gets done next week, there's a lot more certainty today, Victor, than there has been in the last couple of weeks.

And I think that if you step back for a second and look at the transformational nature of this 1.75, although Senator Coons said 1.9, which was interesting, on top of the infrastructure plan to basically rebuild roads, bridges, broadband, airports, et cetera, et cetera, and then the investment in the human capital to put working people back together, is not just a once-in-a-generation investment.

You haven't seen this in 50 years in America. And it looks pretty close that they're actually going to get it done. Are they going to get it done soon.

BLACKWELL: I think part of the 1.95 -- there was a question to Speaker Pelosi about $100 million for immigration.

LANDRIEU: Right.

BLACKWELL: And she said it's on and above the 1.75.

Jess, let me come to you, because we have just learned during this interview that you referenced Representative Cori Bush on another network says that she is an absolute no on infrastructure if it's by itself, and she says that she believes at least another dozen progressives who are no as well.

So as we discuss the lack of trust from one part of the party to another, what's your reaction to hearing those numbers, that the progressives are still holding out on the bill?

JESS MCINTOSH, EMILY'S LIST: It certainly doesn't surprise me.

I think we have seen progressives show more strength than we ever have before. And that's because they finally have the numbers in order to do it. I think it's important to take the longer view on this. Let's look five years out and try to remember the Obamacare fight and how many times it was declared a failure because it didn't have the public option.

Now, of course, it's recognized as one of the most important, powerful expansions of our social safety net ever. And in five years, we're going to not be talking about these final hours of negotiation. We're going to be talking about how Republicans are running on trying to take away universal pre-K and clean energy jobs.

So I think that you're seeing progressives flex muscles. But I think that, at this point, we're looking at historic, generational change in this bill. If they want to hold out a few more hours to make it even stronger. I don't think the base is going to have a problem with that.

For the progressive base that's been following the twists and turns of this negotiation, they got a really good lesson in why it's important to elect leaders who aren't beholden to corporate interests, like fossil fuels and pharma. But we're talking about massive, massive improvement and progress in our country, especially on an issue like child care, which has been completely ignored by a government full of men who seem somehow to have never had to worry about it.

This is transformational change for women and many workers in America.

CAMEROTA: Mayor Landrieu, we talk so much about the process. I do want to just get into the nitty-gritty with you, particularly because you have been a mayor, so you understand the difference between grand plans and implementing those grand plans.

And so just because Democrats have gotten or have maybe, maybe have -- will agree to $400 billion for, say, universal pre-K, do we have the infrastructure for that? I mean, let me change the word, since this is all about infrastructure. Do we have the child care workers and the teachers and the physical buildings to make that happen?

Can parents count on that soon?

LANDRIEU: Well, first of all, I was a legislator for 16 years. So I have been in many of these pitched battles. And I completely respect the work that the progressives and the moderates have done in engaging with each other.

And we remind the American people that the Republicans basically have been sitting home twiddling their thumbs denying an insurrection and trying to support President Trump and lending no effort to standing up the American people, the first point.

Second point is this. Execution really matters. At the end of the day, if you're going to govern, you have to govern well. And so because these investments are now coming in, not only are we going to have to make sure that the money is spent well and effectively, but we're going to have to build the infrastructure to do it.

[15:20:04]

None of this is going to happen overnight. But I don't think that you can overstate the transformational nature of these investments. You think about three presidents, four presidents, President Bush, President Trump, President Obama, and now Biden, have talked about getting an infrastructure plan to do what every American needs, which is to fix their roads and their bridges and their sewer and water systems and to give broadband to everybody in America.

That's actually going to get done now. And also the investments in child care, just universal pre-K standing on its own is going to do an amazing thing for the kids and for the families, not the least of which includes the other portions of the bill.

So they will actually now start to build the infrastructure to make things happen. And they will be judged on how well they get that done.

BLACKWELL: Yes, if this passes with the infrastructure bill, and the Rescue Plan, that's more than $4.5 trillion of investment in less than a year that's been passed through legislation.

But, Jess, let me come to you on one specific element that has now been pulled from the bill. And that's family medical leave -- paid family leave, I should say. The two years of community college that was dropped maybe 10 days ago was significant, but the loss of this policy, this plan seems to be a greater blow to some of the progressives overnight.

MCINTOSH: Yes, look, almost every plank that was being discussed as a part of the Build Back Better agenda is wildly popular with the American people, as in it receives the kinds of numbers of support that means that it is not just Democrats that want it, it is independents and it is a large quantity of Republicans too.

Paid leave was one of those. So if that is truly off the table, hopefully, what happens is we get this agenda passed, which is -- it's the largest investment in child care in the last 100 years. We can't understate that.

And when you pass extremely popular, effective legislation, that tends to have a multiplying effect. I believe that Democrats will learn that passing popular legislation is in fact also politically advantageous. And in elections to come, we will see people campaigning on adding to it, just like with Obamacare. We're going to see people campaigning on adding the planks that got left behind this year along the road, because this country is facing an enormous multitude of crises.

And the American people need the help and this is the time to think big to do it.

(CROSSTALK)

LANDRIEU: But Speaker Pelosi actually kind of put a pin in that and said, you know what, I'm still going to work hard in the next couple of hours to see if I can get that back in.

BLACKWELL: She did.

And we heard the same thing from Senator Coons, who mentioned paid family leave as well.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

LANDRIEU: Yes. Right. He sure did.

CAMEROTA: All right, Mitch Landrieu, Jess McIntosh, great to see you both. Thank you.

MCINTOSH: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: Law enforcement officials say that their investigation into the deadly movie set shooting involving Alec Baldwin is now focused on two people.

CAMEROTA: And the Justice Department just agreed to pay tens of millions of dollars to the families of the AME Church shooting victims in Charleston, South Carolina. We have the details ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:27:49]

BLACKWELL: We have got new pictures of Alec Baldwin, brand-new pictures obtained by TMZ. He's here with his family in New England. You see them there.

The New Mexico sheriff investigating the fatal film set shooting says no one has been cleared, not even Baldwin himself.

CAMEROTA: And we are learning the focus of the investigation has narrowed to two people, Dave Halls, the film's assistant director, and Hannah Gutierrez. She's the armorer. They're the last people known to have handled the gun before Baldwin fired it.

CNN security correspondent Josh Campbell is in Santa Fe for us.

So, Josh, what's the latest with the investigation?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we know investigators have spoken with several witnesses. They have collected hundreds of pieces of evidence.

But, as you mentioned, we're learning today now how their investigation is narrowing. According to the sheriff speaking to "The Today Show," they're looking at those two people that handled that firearm before handing it to Alec Baldwin. Of course, there's been this question of liability, whether any criminal charges will actually be brought in this case.

I spoke with the district attorney here who was trying to weigh that decision. She gave us some new insight into her calculus, what she will be looking for as she renders that decision. She also spoke about how she's dealing with the high-profile nature of the story and the pressure from those who are asking her to make a quick decision. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARY CARMACK-ALTWIES, NEW MEXICO FIRST JUDICIAL DISTRICT ATTORNEY: We don't know how those live rounds got there. And I think that that will probably end up being kind of the linchpin for whether a decision is made about charges.

CAMPBELL: Do you feel any pressure on you to actually charge someone here?

CARMACK-ALTWIES: I know that there's pressure out there. I do not feel that pressure. I will not make my decision based on that pressure. The decision will be based on the law and the evidence, period.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMPBELL: Now, I want to show you these images that our team took just a short time ago.

This is the set of that movie. All is quiet there. You see some security vehicles that are still out there, of course, the production on hold. But as investigators continue to try to get to the bottom of this investigation, the one key piece of information they're trying to answer is, on that set, how did live ammunition actually make its way into that church as they were filming that movie and obviously into that weapon that fired the fatal shot, killing cinematographer Halyna Hutchins? -- Victor, Alisyn.

BLACKWELL: Josh Campbell in Santa Fe, thank you.

CAMEROTA: Well, now for the first time, the president of Taiwan confirming that U.S. troops are deployed on the island, actively training its military.

We have the exclusive interview and global reaction next.

[15:30:00]