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Report: Vaccines Offer More Protection Than Previous Infection; Queen Elizabeth Advised By Doctors to Rest; Congressman Adam Kinzinger Not Seeking Reelection; Biden Meets With Pope Francis; Infrastructure Negotiations Continue. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired October 29, 2021 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:01]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: November 17.

We will continue to track this case, including today in court.

Brynn, appreciate the very important update.

And thank you for your time on INSIDE POLITICS today. Hope you have a fantastic weekend. Don't go anywhere. Busy news day.

Erica Hill picks up our coverage right now.

ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: Good afternoon. I'm Erica Hill in New York. Ana Cabrera is off today.

President Joe Biden admitting just moments ago the administration's handling of a deal to sell nuclear submarines to Australia was -- quote -- "clumsy," the president making that admission in a meeting with French President Emmanuel Macron. France briefly pulled its ambassador, of course, from Washington, saying it was blindsided by that U.S. deal.

Earlier, President Biden today met with Italy's president and prime minister. He began the day, though, with Pope Francis, Biden, of course, just the second Catholic U.S. president. He has a warm relationship with the pope. The two met for 90 minutes, an unusually long amount of time.

Biden presenting Francis with a sentimental challenge coin which honors his late son, Beau.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: On the back of it, I have the state of Delaware, the 261st Unit my son served with.

Now, the tradition is -- and I'm only kidding about this -- next time I see you, and you don't have it, you have to buy the drinks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Well, back home, no drinks flowing just yet.

Democratic lawmakers again delaying that vote on the bipartisan infrastructure bill, shrugging off the personal sales pitch that the president made just before leaving for Europe yesterday. House progressives are withholding their votes for the infrastructure bill until that social safety net package moves in tandem.

CNN's Phil Mattingly is in Rome this hour, Manu Raju on Capitol Hill.

Phil, we will start with you, the White House doing its best to spin this delayed vote, but obviously not what they wanted to see on the heels of the president making his way to Capitol Hill yesterday.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think when you have the speaker of the House, really a very powerful speaker of the House, as well as the president of the United States, come up and urge action as quickly as possible, the speaker being explicit that she wanted something yesterday, and having it not happen, that's not exactly what you probably planned, I think, to some degree.

However, in talking with White House officials over the course of the last 12 to 16 hours, one thing that has been repeated either verbatim or some form of it is progress, not process. And I think that's kind of how they're looking at what transpired over the course of that period.

Yes, they were unable to get to a vote. Yes, the progressives were not willing to green-light a vote on the infrastructure package. And most importantly, yes, the president not only arrived in Rome, but will also ally arrive at that very important U.N. climate conference without any deal or legislative victory in hand.

What they did have, however, was those progressives sign off on that $1.75 trillion framework. What they did have was Senator Joe Manchin sign off on that top line to Manu Raju of $1.75 trillion. That's progress. That's moving things forward.

And I think administration officials are clear-eyed. There's work still to come. And the drafting of legislation is a complex and arduous process. But they're also making clear they're not taking their feet off the gas. They want something done, they want something through the House as soon as next week. They don't want to set deadlines anymore, but they think they're in a place right now where they can move and they can likely move quickly, Erica.

HILL: Yes, the deadlines have not worked out so well over the last couple of weeks, so probably a strong move to not add a another one to the list.

Manu, though, do we have a sense, right? As Phil pointed out, there's a hope that this is done within the next week. How are these negotiations going behind the scenes? How much more support is there today?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it remains to be seen exactly what the two key Democratic senators ultimately say, whether they say anything else, Joe Manchin, Kyrsten Sinema.

They ultimately could hold the cards here, because what the progressives have wanted for some time is an explicit show of support from Joe Manchin to say he will get behind that larger package, which is now at $1.75 trillion, which has gone down from what the liberals initially wanted, $3.5 trillion, as well as what they want from Sinema to say the same.

Now, Sinema put out a statement yesterday saying that she is open and sounded positive about this framework agreement that the White House proposed yesterday, but she did not say explicitly she backs it. But in talking to Democratic sources, they are telling me that, in their conversations with her over the last day or so, they are feeling confident that ultimately she will be a yes.

Now, Manchin is a different story. He has not said one way or the other. He has really not tipped his hand, even though the White House made a number of concessions to get him to get behind this. He has not ruled it out. But he has certainly not embraced it, only saying he's talking in good faith.

Now, what he didn't know, as Phil indicated, and I asked him yesterday about that $1.75 trillion price tag, and he sounded supportive of that, and that is higher than what he had initially bid at $1.5 trillion. So will that be ultimately enough for the progressives to finally say, look, that -- I have some level of assurance that the larger goal will get through the Senate, so it's OK to green-light, give final passage on the infrastructure bill, get it out of the House?

[13:05:18]

That is still going to be the question and dynamic that's going to dominate the Democratic Caucus as they return back to Washington next week. Will anything change? We will have to see -- Erica.

HILL: Yes, we will be watching.

Manu, Phil, appreciate it. Thank you both.

For a closer look at how what's happening in Washington is impacting this trip for the president and what could happen, both in Rome and in Scotland, CNN international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson joining us now from Rome.

So, when we look at -- let's start with the most -- pardon me -- most recent meeting for President Biden, this meeting with President Macron, there was a lot riding on this. It was happening at the French Embassy, which was really seen as a symbol, of course, on the heels of this nuclear deal with Australia.

The fact that the president admitted that was sort of clumsy, how important was that in terms of the relationship between these two countries?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Important. It was important that it was done on the French territorial ground at their embassy. That was a clear concession to the French, Emmanuel Macron saying that this was the beginning of the process of building trust.

That was a positive reaction to the meeting, President Biden saying that it was clumsy, that it was done without grace, even saying that he thought within the White House that it had been communicated long before to the French, so really an indication his part that this was on the American side the ball dropped.

Macron himself saying that it was important now what's done in the coming weeks between the countries, in the coming months, and in the coming year. So I think, from a French perspective, they wanted to get beyond this as well. Macron has elections coming up, French national elections in a few months' time.

So this was for President Biden a good start. He had a positive meeting with the pope as well. That was described as cordial. There were there were jokes. It was long. So it's a positive start. The heavier lift does begin tomorrow, when the other G20 leaders, apart from President Xi of China and President Putin of Russia, arrive, and then the real difficult job of trying to get agreement on how to get beyond the COVID pandemic, get vaccines to the poorer nations and, of course, climate being central.

HILL: So -- and in terms of getting to those agreements, Nic, even specifically when it comes to vaccines, we know that this is something that the pope has talked about at length, that he really wants to see wealthier nations, nations with greater access help those who do not have as much access to the vaccine.

Is there a sense that there will be some consensus? Will some consensus be easier than others when it comes to those topics among the leaders?

ROBERTSON: I think, as we have seen before already, that it's very hard for national leaders not to take care of their own populations. That's domestic politics.

But the message that will have come from the pope, this message that's come from the U.N. secretary-general, the message from the World Health Organization is that you cannot move forward beyond the pandemic unless you help everyone.

So the leaders now faced with giving booster shots, third shots to their own nationals, poorer nations, many, many people there still waiting to get their first shot of vaccine. So this is somewhere where you will see agreement, but you're not going to see as rapid a spread of the vaccines as these other poorer nations want.

HILL: Nic Robertson, good to see you. Thank you.

Also new on this Friday, a surprise announcement from Capitol Hill. Congressman Adam Kinzinger of Illinois, a vocal Trump critic within the Republican Party, says he will not seek reelection. Now, he's often defied GOP leadership, as you know. He's drawn the ire of many Republicans for doing so. He's citing the increasingly toxic nature and tribalism of politics at the moment as playing a role in his decision.

Here's part of his five-minutes statement. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL): There's little to no desire to bridge our differences. And unity is no longer a word we use. It has also become increasingly obvious to me that, in order to break the narrative, I cannot focus on both a reelection to Congress and a broader fight nationwide.

I want to make it clear, this isn't the end of my political future, but the beginning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Joining us now, CNN chief political analyst Gloria Borger.

Gloria, former President Trump just a short time ago in a statement saying two down, eight to go, in reference, of course, to the 10 Republicans who voted to impeach him. So, at the end of the day, is this a Trump victory?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, obviously, he's claiming this as a victory, because this is somebody who has openly abhorred Donald Trump and voted for impeachment.

[13:10:08]

And Donald Trump is counting all of the people that he believes he can defeat. But if you take a step back, and you see that Adam Kinzinger has decided not to run for reelection -- and, by the way, he would have faced a very tough primary because of redistricting against a conservative pro-Trump candidate.

But if you kind of take a step back, Adam Kinzinger is exactly the kind of Republican that Republicans used to want to recruit for the party. I mean, he's young, he's conservative, he fought in Iraq, he's telegenic.

He's the -- he was -- Adam Kinzinger and his ilk were the future of the Republican Party, just like Anthony Gonzalez, who voted for impeachment and has also decided not to run again. So I think it is a -- it's a tough moment if you're a Republican and you're thinking about, where does the party go post-Donald Trump?

HILL: You know, it's interesting, too, that we did hear from Kinzinger, perhaps not surprising, I would say.

BORGER: Yes.

HILL: He says: This is not the end of my political future.

There are obviously some options in Illinois coming up in 2022 if he wanted to run for a different office. I think the question a lot of people's minds is, does he run as a Republican if he runs for something? And if so, how did he get the support of the party if it's been so difficult at this point?

BORGER: It's very difficult. I mean, he's a Republican. He's a conservative on military affairs, for example. In that way, he's not unlike Liz Cheney.

But he does have these obstacles in front of him. He's talked about running for governor. Illinois is a pretty Democratic state. He's talked about running for the Senate. He'd have to face a Republican primary to go up against Tammy Duckworth. So, there are speed bumps for him, in that sense.

He does have a PAC that's raising an awful lot of money. Some people I talked to this morning were saying, oh, what about a Kinzinger-Cheney or Cheney-Kinzinger ticket eventually? Who knows? Who knows? I think he wants to remain in politics, but there is no home for him right now in this party that is dominated by Donald Trump.

And, again, lots of Republicans are saying, this is a guy who was our future before Trump.

HILL: You know, he talked too really clearly in that statement about the tribalism that he saw.

BORGER: Yes, exactly.

HILL: And I'm just curious, as we look at all this and as we look at the fallout, as Trump's hold gets even stronger on the party, I mean, who's next to say they're done?

BORGER: Well, there's a lot of redistricting that we're going to be seeing.

I just mentioned Anthony Gonzalez has decided not to run. So there are Republicans who are deciding to retire, rather than deal with the tribalism, rather than face potential losses. I mean, it's a very uncomfortable place to be right now if you are a Republican who doesn't pay homage in every way, shape or form to Donald Trump, particularly in the House, where the leader of the House pays homage to Donald Trump, goes to Mar-a-Lago to kiss the ring.

Kevin McCarthy is a friend of Donald Trump's. And he is important if he's going to be the next speaker of the House potentially. One thing I should say, though, is that these Republicans who potentially will stand for reelection have generally not had a hard time raising money.

And the question is whether that money is coming from out of their state, or whether it reflects real support for them in their state. That's an issue.

HILL: It's a great point too.

Gloria, always good to see. Thank you.

BORGER: Good to see you.

HILL: Breaking just moments ago, the CDC is releasing a new report which find COVID vaccines offer more protection than previous infection. We will have more of those details just ahead.

Also breaking right now, we are just learning the queen has been advised to rest for at least another two weeks, this amid growing questions about her health. We're going to have a live update for you from London.

And the head of the NAACP calling on athletes, professional athletes, to avoid signing with teams in Texas, citing dangerous attacks in that state on American freedoms and civil liberties.

How is that letter being received? The president of the NAACP will join us live.

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HILL: Breaking news just into CNN: Queen Elizabeth being advised by doctors to rest for at least two weeks, the next two weeks. That's according to Buckingham Palace.

Let's get straight to CNN's Max Foster in London.

Max, there are a lot of questions as we keep getting new health guidance as to why the queen needs to rest. Are they being any more forthcoming on her condition specifically?

MAX FOSTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, specifically, they keep saying that these are -- about confidentiality, patient confidentiality. They're not giving us actual details about what might be wrong with her.

But we do have a situation now where she's canceling some really key events in her diary. So, we had a visit to Northern Ireland, the COP summit coming up this weekend as well. People are getting increasingly concerned. She spent the night in hospital.

And now we're told that she's been asked to rest as well for another two weeks. And this is on medical advice. But we're not being told exactly what it is of concern to the doctors.

[13:20:00]

So we're told, following on from their recent advice that the queen should rest for a few days, her majesty's doctors have advised that she should continue to rest for at least the next two weeks. So it could go beyond that.

The doctors have advised that her majesty can continue to undertake light desk-based duties during this time, including some virtual audiences, but not to undertake any official visits.

So we saw her yesterday, for example, completing some virtual visits as well. So, she -- these are engagements she does online. She looked on very good form. And I'm told by my sources that she's still in very good spirits. And she is carrying out these light duties. She didn't have that much in her diary coming up anyway.

But I think this is a case of the doctors advising her to stay home, effectively ordering her to stay home, the palace not wanting to tell us the specific details of what might be wrong with her, but also trying to calm nerves as well, saying we shouldn't worry too much because she is well in herself, Erica.

HILL: But, as you point out, as they try to calm nerves, it's tough when you don't have as many specifics.

Max, we know you're trying hard. Really appreciate this latest update. Thank you.

We also have some breaking news on the pandemic front, the CDC just moments ago out with a new report which finds COVID-19 vaccines offer more protection than previous infection.

CNN senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen has the breaking details for us.

This is really important, because we know there are a number of people specifically in this country and likely around the world who have said, I'd rather get infected. It's just as good as being vaccinated.

That's not true.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You hear that a lot. That is so true. And it is just false. That is not the right way to look at it. It is not as protective.

So this was a very large study that was published in the CDC's publication. And what they found is, they looked at more than 150 hospitals in the U.S. at patients from January through September. And they sort of divided them in two. Some of these folks who were sick, some of them are vaccinated against COVID, but had never actually had COVID. Some of them had had COVID, but weren't vaccinated.

What they found was that the vaccinated folks were five times more protected against ending up in the hospital with COVID compared to the folks who had had COVID previously.

So, in other words, vaccination sort of worked five times better than actually having COVID. So, the bottom line of this is that it's important to be vaccinated. It's the best way to protect yourself against COVID. And even if you have had COVID in the past, still important to be vaccinated -- Ana (sic).

HILL: It's so great. The more data we have, right, to back this up. And, as we know, the science is evolving as we're learning more.

Also, the FDA today is expected to sign off on emergency use authorization for Pfizer's vaccine for 5-to-11-year-olds. This is not the last step. Doesn't mean shots will immediately be available. But we are getting closer. So where do we stand in the timeline?

COHEN: Right, so, Erica, let's take a look at this timeline, because this is really important, because we could have some very big news on this today.

Today, we're expecting to hear from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration about their decision about whether or not to authorize Pfizer's vaccine for children ages 5 to 11. That's expected today. And then Tuesday and Wednesday of next week, CDC vaccine advisers, these are external advisers who advise the CDC on vaccine issues, they're expected to meet and go over what the FDA has done and give their thoughts.

And then, soon after that, CDC director Dr. Rochelle Walensky is expected to weigh in. And once she weighs in, then it's done. It is expected that this EUA, this emergency use authorization, will be granted, and that children might be able to be getting shots in arms as soon as next week.

HILL: It's very exciting. I think my 11-year-old asks me every single day when he can get that first shot.

COHEN: Sure.

HILL: Elizabeth, appreciate it. Thank you.

Joining us now is Dr. Saju Mathew. He's a primary care physician and public health specialist in Atlanta.

Dr. Mathew, good to see you.

I want to start with this new information that we just learned from Elizabeth from the CDC dealing specifically with previous infection, those antibodies that someone could have if have had and recovered from COVID and their efficacy vs. a vaccine. It's clear the mRNA vaccines are the way to go.

Do you think this information could change some minds?

DR. SAJU MATHEW, PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIAN AND PUBLIC HEALTH SPECIALIST: Yes, I think so, Erica.

I'm always excited when we have studies to reaffirm what we have known really for a while. And I think it's really important for people who say listen, I had COVID, Dr. Mathew. Why are you asking me to get vaccinated?

Well, really for two main reasons. Number one, if you have COVID, yes, we know you have some level of immunity, but we know that that immunity wanes over time. And, secondly, you're not really protected against these variants.

So, if you had an infection six months ago, before the Delta surge, Erica, you can still get infected. In fact, an earlier study from CDC had said that you're twice as likely to get reinfected with COVID if you were unvaccinated, but had a previous infection.

[13:25:15]

So, yes, I definitely think that this will change some minds. HILL: I'm also curious just to get your take. I have noticed a lot of

reaction online today from this cover from "Newsweek," and we're going to put it up now, reaction I have noticed specifically from doctors.

And I'm just curious, what's your take? Picture of a little girl. Would you give this kid a shot? This on the heels of a new survey from the Kaiser Family Foundation earlier this week that found that, I believe, it was just 27 percent of parents said they would get that shot immediately. Thirty percent were a hard no. And another third said they want to wait and see.

MATHEW: I think one of the biggest mistakes that we have made is to compare children, the risk of COVID in children, to the risk of COVID in adults.

Yes, we say this all the time. Adults will have or can have a much more severe effect from COVID compared to children. But, remember, Erica, if this virus only affected children, this would be a public health emergency. We have had multiple hospitalizations. In the age of ages 5 to 11, we have had almost two million cases of COVID, and over 100 children have died.

So if you talk to a family who has lost a kid, if you talk to parents who have had their kids in the ICUs, then you will realize that COVID is as dangerous or can be as dangerous. So, when I look at that, the article that you mentioned, or the cover of that article, I think some people will look at that small kid and say, what is the risk of that small kid having COVID?

But, Erica, it is a real risk, and we need to vaccinate 28 million kids in the ages between 5 and 11 in this country.

HILL: Yes, we can be very clear that the risk is there without it being alarmist. All we have to do is look at the facts.

Dr. Mathew, always good to see you. Thank you.

MATHEW: Thank you.

HILL: President Biden, of course, in Rome for the G20, ahead of making his way to COP 26, that climate conference. He's not heading there with a final deal on climate back here in the U.S. What does that mean?

We will ask the head of the EPA next.

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