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'Rust' Armorer Defends Actions on Set; Virginia Governor's Race; Congressman Adam Kinzinger Not Seeking Reelection; President Biden Overseas. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired October 29, 2021 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Victor Blackwell. And thank you for joining us on NEWSROOM.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: And I'm Alisyn Camerota.

We begin with President Biden, overseas and candid about the recent diplomatic dust-up with France, America's oldest ally. The president is in Rome ahead of the G20 meeting of world leaders tomorrow, and his meeting with French President Emmanuel Macron just ended moments ago.

BLACKWELL: Now, for the first time publicly, President Biden spoke about the U.S. nuclear submarine deal with Australia that undermined the Australian agreement with France.

Now, that deprived France of billions in defense contracts, and prompted the nation to recall its ambassador from the U.S.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The answer is, I think what happened was, to use an English phrase, what we did was clumsy. It was not done with a lot of grace.

I was under the impression that France had been informed long before that the deal was not going through. I, honest to God, did not know you had not been.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Now, the president started his second trip abroad with a meeting with the pope. For 90 minutes, the two of them were together. And then he had a face-to-face with leaders of Italy.

Now, that's the foreign policy picture. Domestically, his agenda is still currently stalled at home.

CNN chief White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins is in Rome.

Kaitlan, let's start first with the president's meeting with the French president, Emmanuel Macron. What do we know?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it was very kind of surprising how blunt the president was in that meeting, acknowledging a big misstep, he said, by the United States when it came to how they handled that situation.

And the president said it was clumsy. But he also said that he believed the French had been better informed of that deal that the U.S. was cutting with Australia and the United Kingdom to provide them those nuclear-powered submarines. And, as you noted, that undermined the French deal, a multibillion-dollar deal, we should note, to provide the Australians with diesel-powered submarines.

And this is something that the White House has talked about. They said that they have not apologized for it. But they noted in the past that there could have been more consultation on that. But the president himself was pretty candid about it during that opening of that meeting with the French president, and saying that he essentially was arguing that the French relationship and the U.S. relationship dates back to many decades, too long for this to damage that friendship between the two countries.

And so he said that they would work on that in the future. And he acknowledged, of course, what had happened just a few weeks ago. And then the French president himself weighed in and said that they wanted to focus on what was coming ahead, talking about in the weeks and months to come and, of course, pushing his own French priorities, but certainly notable to see the president speak so candidly about that, and say he wasn't even aware that the French were not aware of what was actually going on behind the scenes.

CAMEROTA: Yes, that seems like a lapse somehow in diplomacy. But we will get more into that in a second.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Meanwhile, President Biden also met with the pope today, and they talked about the climate crisis and more. So here's what President Biden said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Mr. President, did the issue of abortion come up at all?

BIDEN: No, it didn't. It came up. We just talked about the fact that he was happy I was a good Catholic and I should keep receiving communion.

QUESTION: He said that you should keep receiving communion?

BIDEN: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK, so for people who couldn't hear that, President Biden, he says the pope said he could keep receiving communion. Why is that so significant among Catholics, Kaitlan?

COLLINS: Because there was this big fight in the United States among conservative U.S. bishops who argue that because President Biden supports abortion rights, he should not be able to take communion.

And it's actually something that's going to come to a head by the time the president gets back to the United States from this trip. But after spending 90 minutes behind closed doors with Pope Francis, 75 minutes of those that we are told was a one-on-one between the pope and the president, he says that the pope told him he can continue taking communion.

And when he was asked specifically if that meant they talked about this conversation that's happening with these conservative U.S. bishops, he said that's a private conversation, though he did say abortion came up, abortion rights came up and, of course, whether or not President Biden should keep taking communion.

And so that was a very notable moment of that, given that has become politicized in the U.S. But, overall, this is also probably the most symbolic meeting that the president is going to have while he's overseas having a marathon of diplomatic meetings, this one with the pope, where you saw earlier they were also exchanging gifts.

And the president gave him this coin that is often passed around in the military that he said was personal to him, because it was in part a tribute to his late son, Beau. And, of course, we know that he has recalled before how Pope Francis was there for him, he says, after his son died in 2015, when he was visiting the United States and they grieved together and had these moments talking about his son's death.

And so it was also a very personal meeting for the president. But they did talk about politics. They did talk about COVID-19 and climate change, as they were also behind closed doors at the Vatican earlier today.

BLACKWELL: Kaitlan Collins there with the president traveling in Rome, thank you so much.

[14:05:01]

Let's bring in now Aaron David Miller, CNN global affairs analyst

Aaron, welcome back.

You served the State Department through five presidential administrations. So when you hear a president admit that the U.S. was clumsy in its handling of this nuclear sub deal, how often do we hear that type of admission from an American president?

AARON DAVID MILLER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, rarely, I suppose, but there should be more on it.

I mean, the president is smart enough to understand that France and Macron needs a lot of tending to. This was very close to an apology. It was handled without grace, he said. It was handled clumsily. It is curious, though, guys, that he basically said he was under the -- the president was under the impression that the French were informed.

Now, that would lead me to the conclusion that someone had told Biden, national security adviser, secretary of state, that, in essence, they had informed the French. So I think they'd rather put this whole episode behind them. And I think the president made a pretty good start today, in almost apologizing to the French president.

CAMEROTA: I want to ask you about the domestic backdrop here at home for President Biden's trip, because you tweeted something that didn't pull any punches.

You said: "Failure to pass domestic initiatives that cut to the core not just Biden's" -- oh, "cut to the core of not just Biden's bona fides on climate, but of the president's capacity to govern on the eve of a foreign trip, that will only amplify failure on the world stage and signal that America is not back, but toggling back to more, ever more dysfunction."

I mean, OK, that's awfully -- well, I mean, is that too harsh now, given that they think they're on the road to having some agreement on his domestic agenda?

MILLER: Oh, no, that tweet was designed, I think, to basically convey the sense that this was somewhat of a gamble and a risk and that, if the president were here talking to the three of us, he would probably say, look, there probably is no foreign policy issue out there that's more dangerous or damaging to the future of this republic or to my presidency than the three or four issues that we face at home that we have to deal with.

So there's no question about it that, regardless of what happens at the G20, meeting with the pope, with Macron, COP 26 in Glasgow, what happens in Washington over the course of the next week is going to be critically important to the Biden presidency.

All I'm suggesting is that the world stage can amplify a president's successes. And had he been able to pocket this and present it at COP 26, it would have, or the world stage can amplify a president's failures.

BLACKWELL: Let's talk about who is returning to the world stage. And that's former President Obama, who will be attending COP 26 in Glasgow to support this administration, to really relate to the rest of the world that the U.S. is leading here and to bring them, of course, into the fold.

What's the significance of bringing in a former president, a very popular former president to be on this stage with President Biden?

MILLER: You know, we only have one president at a time. And when I first heard that Obama was going to go to COP 26, I thought to myself, there's no way he's going to appear in proximity to Joe Biden. They're not going as a tag team.

And the fact is that Obama will go. Biden will be back in the United States. Look, you have got a former president who is extraordinarily charismatic, youthful, relates unbelievably well to a future generation, was -- in fact, presided over the COP 21 in Paris, which was the big breakthrough on climate. So I think it's natural and quite supportive, particularly given the relationship between these two guys.

And I genuinely believe that the White House probably welcomed the prospects of the former president going to COP 26, just not with the current president.

CAMEROTA: We only have 30 seconds left, Aaron, but what do you think President Biden needs to accomplish this week at this G20 and then the COP meeting?

MILLER: The June G7, America's back trip where everything was just wonderful, isn't enough.

Biden has to reestablish trust with our allies. They have got to do something at the G20, that he will pass the global minimum tax, which is important, and they will discuss Iran supply chains. I'm just dubious as to whether or not Glasgow, which is being hyped as an extraordinary event, is going to be able to deliver what he really wants to deliver.

It would be nice if Congress could basically pass his -- the infrastructure bill and reconciliation, so he would have something to give at the moment.

[14:10:07]

BLACKWELL: Yes.

MILLER: But I think he's well on his way. It's an auspicious beginning to a trip, and I suspect it will be judged on the whole to be successful.

BLACKWELL: Well, we will see if there's some progress on that legislation while he is traveling.

Aaron David Miller, always good to have your insight, sir. Thank you.

MILLER: Thanks, Victor. Thanks, Alisyn. Bye-bye.

BLACKWELL: An outspoken Republican critic of former President Donald Trump will not run for reelection.

CAMEROTA: Illinois Congressman Adam Kinzinger, who was one of the 10 GOP members of Congress to vote for Trump's impeachment, made the announcement today.

Jessica Dean is covering these developments for us on Capitol Hill.

So, was this a surprise on Capitol Hill? And what do we know that went into his decision?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Alisyn and Victor, this news came down just a few hours ago this morning. And it was a surprise.

I mean, Adam Kinzinger, of course, has been on our air many times. He's become quite well-known as being an outspoken critic of former President Trump, of course, voting to impeach him, and also one of only two Republicans serving on the select committee that is looking into the January 6 insurrection, he along, of course, with Congresswoman Liz Cheney.

So to hear this news was a bit surprising. But he said in a video that he released that he'd always said if it was ever time to move on, and he felt like it was time to move on, he would not run for reelection. He said that time is now.

I want you to take a listen for yourself. Here's more of that video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL): There's little to no desire to bridge our differences. And unity is no longer a word we use.

It has also become increasingly obvious to me that in order to break the narrative, I cannot focus on both a reelection to Congress and a broader fight nationwide. I want to make it clear. This isn't the end of my political future, but the beginning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: And I think that's really important that he highlighted that this is not the end, but the beginning. He's indicating a broader fight that he wants to take on.

So, certainly, it seems unlikely this is the last time we're going to hear from Adam Kinzinger. It's also worth noting that redistricting in his home state was playing a large role in this. A new map came out of redistricting in Illinois earlier today. And he was going to overlap with another GOP member of Congress. So that certainly probably played a role in this as well.

He is again the second of the 10 Republicans who voted to impeach President -- former President Trump, Alisyn and Victor, of course, Anthony Gonzalez last month announcing his retirement and citing the toxicity here in Washington, D.C., and in the state of politics right now as a reason why.

So we will keep our eye on Congressman Kinzinger and see what's next. As I said, we expect there is something down the road for him -- guys.

CAMEROTA: OK, Jessica Dean, thank you for that reporting.

Joining us now, we have Charlie Dent, our CNN political commentator and former Republican congressman from Pennsylvania.

Let me just put up the graphic of the 10 Republicans who voted to impeach Donald Trump for attempting to overturn the 2020 election results. Now two of them will no longer be in Congress. As you heard, it's Congressman Kinzinger as of today.

So, Charlie, do you see this as a win for Trumpism over truth?

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think this is bad for Congress that we're going to lose Adam Kinzinger. He's been a very good friend of mine. We served together as co-chairs of the Tuesday group now called the Republican Governing Group.

He's a strong, principled voice. And so I'm very sad that he's leaving. I'm not surprised. We were very much aware of the Illinois redistricting or gerrymandering issue that was likely to collapse his district into Darin LaHood's.

And so it's just a sad day, I think, for the institution. But at the same time, I think Adam is going to carry on the fight. He's a young guy. He's got a bright future ahead of him politically, if he wants it. Things will change. And he's going to be part of the -- I hope the next leadership of the Republican Party that sets it straight and is talking about principles and ideals, rather than loyalty to a very flawed -- a very flawed man.

BLACKWELL: Well, the flawed man you speak of, I assume, is former President Trump, who responded via statement. It's simple, "Two down, eight to go," when speaking about those 10 who voted to refer the articles of impeachment over to the Senate.

And, Congressman, I wonder, is this the same as Anthony Gonzalez? Because although he was -- is still a substantive member of the conference, Adam Kinzinger was at the front of the Republican resistance to -- or still is -- to former President Trump.

Are these equal decisions to retire?

DENT: I think they're very similar decisions.

Look, Adam Kinzinger and Liz Cheney have chosen to say out loud what most of them already believe, that the former president was very unfit and that he should not be the future of the party. They're saying it out loud. Most everybody else agrees with them.

[14:15:00]

The challenge for these guys is that there aren't enough of them. They need a critical mass to change the narrative. As long as Republicans like Kinzinger and Cheney are out on their own, and without the support from other strong elected Republicans, then Donald Trump will be able to control the narrative and his supporters.

That's the challenge for the party. We need more Kinzingers, not fewer of them. And same with Gonzalez. Gonzalez is a very strong guy, too, although he was quieter about his situation. He voted to impeach. He's a good man. Sorry he's leaving. But we need some of these folks to speak up much more loudly than they have.

CAMEROTA: Well, you're going in the wrong direction, Charlie. I mean, they're -- you're not getting more of them. You're getting fewer of them in Congress.

And when I hear Adam Kinzinger and you say that you hope that he will have a strong future in the Republican Party, what's a bigger platform than being a congressman who gets interviewed all the time on cable news? I mean, what else can he do if he wants to have an impact on the Republican Party?

DENT: Well, what can he do?

He can go out, he can build an organization. Look, I think most people are going to get tired of losing. This is a long game, Alisyn. Republicans in 2020 who were not named Donald Trump did rather well in the election. At some point, people are going to get tired of losing in suburban communities. We have seen what has happened under former President Trump.

Republicans have been beginning walloped in suburbs. If we want to be a national party, if we want to win statewide elections in states like Pennsylvania and Michigan, we're going to have to win in suburbs, and you're not going to win the presidency going forward if we don't figure out a way to do this.

So, long term, they all realize that Trump is shrinking the coalition for the Republican Party, not growing it. So some of those people who want to win, they need to grow, and they need to talk to people like Kinzinger.

BLACKWELL: We're learning that the House minority leader, Kevin McCarthy, is telling Republican strategist to make your allegiances known, that if you work for the campaign for Representative Cheney, you cannot work for the rest of the party.

You cannot work for other Republicans. The significance of an ultimatum like that for your party?

DENT: Well, that's -- well, I couldn't disagree more.

You think you maybe make that statement about maybe Marjorie Taylor Greene, who has done things to embarrass the party and has said very inflammatory, insensitive, incendiary things, again, attacking a Republican woman who's strong and principled, and, by the way, very conservative, but because she failed the litmus test of loyalty to the unfit former president.

I mean, that is outrageous, I think, that this -- if you're going to -- if they're going to do that, if the leadership is going to start telling campaign consultants who they can work for, you think they would tell those consultants not to work for people who are embarrassments to the party, not people we should be proud of.

I mean, there's some people that they ought not be working, for those consultants, but they picked the wrong person. Again, this is marginalizing mainstream, thoughtful people like Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger, while still embracing the more extreme elements.

BLACKWELL: Former Congressman Charlie Dent, thank you.

CAMEROTA: Thanks, Charlie.

DENT: Thanks, Victor. Thanks, Alisyn.

BLACKWELL: So, the armorer from the movie "Rust" is now defending her role in the on-set shooting tragedy. Her attorney says that she had no idea how live ammo got onto the set. And investigators are now reacting to her claims.

CAMEROTA: Plus, Vice President Harris heads to Virginia as the governor's race there is neck and neck. Both candidates' final pitches next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:22:55]

CAMEROTA: For the first time, we are hearing from the gun supervisor, also known as the armorer, on the set of Alec Baldwin's movie "Rust."

BLACKWELL: Now, attorneys for Hannah Gutierrez tell NBC News that she has no idea how live rounds got onto the set. Her lawyers also blamed the production team for those safety lapses.

Santa Fe County sheriff's investigators say they found more rounds on the set, more than the live round suspected that killed Halyna Hutchins.

Josh Campbell, CNN security correspondent, is in Santa Fe with more on the attorney statement and the reaction from investigators.

What do you know?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we're hearing her break her silence.

This armorer, again, the person who was responsible for the safety of firearms on that set, her attorneys coming out, saying -- refuting the notion that she was responsible here.

I'll read you a part of their statement. They say that: "Safety is Hannah's number one priority on set. Ultimately, the set would never have been compromised if live ammo were not introduced. Hannah has no idea where the live rounds came from. The whole production set became unsafe due to various factors, including lack of safety meetings, not the fault of Hannah," which, of course, raises the question, if there were issues that she knew about before, did she ever bring them to the attention of the production management?

We don't know the answer to that question. But we are hearing from the sheriff. He is speaking out, saying that thus far witnesses have been cooperative, but he wants her to come back in to talk to detectives. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADAN MENDOZA, SANTA FE COUNTY, NEW MEXICO, SHERIFF: Obviously, we will take that statement. And I'm sure our investigators will have follow-up questions.

And any issues that she's brought to the forefront, we will follow up on those. So we need time to look at the statement. And, again, we encourage Ms. Gutierrez Reed to come to our office and do some follow- up interview and some clarification.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMPBELL: Now, a law enforcement official tells me that they have asked her lawyer to bring her in for an additional interview. Thus far, they have not received an affirmative response to that saying that they will be in anytime soon -- Victor, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: So, Josh, earlier today, CNN spoke to a veteran grip who has worked with both Gutierrez and the assistant director, Dave Halls, in the past.

[14:25:05]

So, what more did he have to say?

CAMPBELL: Well, this is so important, not just for us as we learn about her and what happened, but also for investigators.

Both the sheriff and the prosecutor have told us that they will be looking back at past incidents of unsafety on sets, on productions, and using that as the totality of the circumstances, as the sheriff says, in determining, was this a pattern, was this preventable?

We're hearing from that former colleague of hers who talked about some past incidents that alarmed him. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STU BRUMBAUGH, MOTION PICTURE KEY GRIP: Whether it was accidental or not -- whether it was accidental or not, that, I can't answer. I know that they were discharges on set. They were unannounced.

And there are protocols on set. Were they test-fires? I don't know. All I know is that there was no announcement about hot guns being on set. I know there were several times -- excuse me -- two times that there were discharges on set. It's not just me that saw this. It was the entire crew.

It was our star on our film that had actually yelled out about the unannounced discharge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMPBELL: So, it's comments like that will be of interest to investigators.

Finally, we're learning more about the evidence that detectives are currently sifting through. We obtained search warrant information showing that, in addition to that actual church itself where the shooting took place, investigators also searched a vehicle, the prop truck.

And according to the search warrant returns, they found numerous weapons, numerous rounds of ammunition. I spoke a short time ago with a law enforcement official, who tells me they don't yet know if that ammunition includes live rounds, such as what they found inside the actual building. I'm told that that ammunition has been sent to the FBI for analysis to help them hopefully answer that question.

Were there additional live rounds in the vicinity of this production?

BLACKWELL: Josh Campbell, thank you.

So there are just a few crucial days of campaigning left in Virginia leading up to Tuesday's election for governor. It's being viewed as a pretty important test for Democrats in a state where President Biden won big just a few months ago.

CAMEROTA: A new "Washington Post" poll shows Glenn Youngkin and Democrat Terry McAuliffe in a dead heat. And a recent Fox News poll shows the Republican pulling ahead. That could be an outlier, but Youngkin was using it on the trail today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GLENN YOUNGKIN (R), VIRGINIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: People been saying that this race is tightened up.

Well, one car is driving 40 miles an hour down the highway and another one is going 70, we're going 70. And we are getting past it.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

YOUNGKIN: Polls don't elect governors. Voters do. Voters do.

(APPLAUSE)

YOUNGKIN: So now it's time for all of us to go to work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK, CNN's Arlette Saenz is in Norfolk for us.

So, Vice President Kamala Harris will campaign for Terry McAuliffe there tonight, we understand. What's the McAuliffe team saying about the polls?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, the McAuliffe team has seen these polls tightening here in Virginia for quite some time as they are heading into Election Day and that's why they are trying to make sure they take nothing for granted with just four days to go.

And that is why you will see Democrat Terry McAuliffe here in Norfolk, Virginia, a bit later today campaigning with Vice President Kamala Harris, as well as musical artists and a Virginia native, Pharrell Williams.

The Democrat -- the Democratic candidate has really been leaning on these heavy-hitter Democratic names to campaign with him. We're having Harris campaigning with him for the second time. You also saw President Biden here earlier in the week, former President Obama last week, as they are trying to gin up and drum up Democratic enthusiasm to get folks out to the polls.

Now, Glenn Youngkin, the Republican nominee, he, for his part, has been on a bus tour throughout the state today. That will continue into the weekend. And right now, nearly one million Virginia voters have already head -- and cast their early ballots before Tuesday.

That early voting period will end tomorrow, as this race right now most polls are showing that the two candidates are neck and neck. Now, this all comes after President Biden won the Commonwealth of Virginia by 10 points last year. But despite that large margin of the presidential win, we have now seen this tightening in the race.

And so these two candidates are making the full-court press over the course of the weekend as they are trying to turn out their voters ahead of Election Day.

CAMEROTA: OK, Arlette Saenz, thank you.

And be sure to join CNN on Tuesday for "Election Night in America." Special live coverage starts Tuesday at 6:00 p.m. Eastern on CNN.

BLACKWELL: So, the FDA is expected to authorize Pfizer's COVID vaccine for younger children today. We have the latest on that ahead.

CAMEROTA: And we're expecting to hear from the Albany County Sheriff's Office in minutes with an update on the criminal complaint against former Governor Andrew Cuomo.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:30:00]