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Biden, G20 Leaders "Convinced" Iran Deal Can Be Quickly Restored; Biden, G20 Leaders Tackle Coronavirus Pandemic Supply Issues; New Details On Documents Trump Doesn't Want January 6 Committee To See; Health Experts: Trick-Or-Treating Carries Some COVID Risks; House Eyes Tuesday Vote On Both Economic Bills; Sheriff: Armorer Cooperating, But Should Come In And Talk To Us. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired October 30, 2021 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:01:01]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST (on camera): All right, hello again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us. I'm Fredricka Whitfield in Atlanta joined by -- joined along with my colleague Chris Cuomo live from Rome. This breaking news in Rome.

Right now, President Biden just finishing up a meeting with other global leaders on the Iran nuclear deal. And in a joint statement, they say they are convinced it is possible to reach and implement an understanding on full compliance of the deal.

The U.S. withdrew from the agreement back in 2018, if you recall. So, it's one of several important meetings taking place today at the G20 summit. President Biden arriving there this morning, as you see, posing for the traditional kind of class photo. World leaders were joined on the stage by first responders as well as you see right there. Those who are on the frontlines of the coronavirus global pandemic.

COVID, also, one of the top issues facing the G20 leaders. Several other critical agenda items. President Biden's proposal for a global minimum tax on multinational corporations, which now we are learning has the endorsement of the G20, as well as the supply chain and climate change crises.

All right, for more on all the goings-on there, from Rome, Chris Cuomo, back with us. Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST (on camera): All right, thanks, Fred. I have CNN's chief international editor Nic Robertson, and CNN chief White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins, and CNN global economic analyst Rana Foroohar. She's also a global business columnist and associate editor for The Financial Times. It's good to have you all.

So, let's talk with what Fred put out there as the headline. Nic, I'll start with you. The idea that everybody here is pretty confident that it is possible -- what isn't possible, by the way, that they can have a renewed Iran deal.

Is that misplaced optimism or is possible, very different than probable?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (on camera): You know, it's possible here we're seeing the Europeans -- the France, Germany, the U.K. tried a sort of give a positive vision of what they hope can happen to President Biden.

Look, it was the E.U.'s negotiator who sat down with the Iran's deputy prime minister just last week, and got Iran to agree to come back into the talks by the end of November.

They said, these sort of proximity type talks in Vienna, where the Iranians are sitting around the table with everyone else who's still in the JCPOA, that nuclear deal, but United States is in a separate room, at a separate location, is there close by can answer questions.

So, I do think that the Europeans want to, you know, want to emphasize that this can be done. They've been the ones that the Iranians go to, to say, please, can you try to, you know, moderate the United States, but, you know, get some of these sanctions lifted. There is a messaging in the joint communique that if sanctions are lifted, Gulf allies and partners can get back into business, essentially, with Iran and take up some of the financial slack that's been hit by these sanctions. So, there's some carrots in there.

But I think, you know, the real -- the real question is, what are the Iranians going to come back to the table with? Is it going to be the same sort of level of intransigence? Let's not forget, they have massively overproduced now their allowed amounts of low enriched uranium, medium-enriched uranium.

They've also, in the past few weeks, stopped allowing the International Atomic Energy Agency inspectors get access to sites where the Iranians are making centrifuges. That's completely contrary to the nuclear deal.

So, Iran is way out of compliance. It's got this new, harder core, conservative leadership. Are we expected to believe, therefore, that this conservative leadership is much more skeptical of the United States, who's going to step back into the room and suddenly say, well, what you've got on the table here is so much better than you had before. We're now going to come into compliance.

Is that what the Europeans are really saying? That seems to be a stretch to me at the moment.

CUOMO: So, Kaitlan, the G20 was put together for economic problems, right? It was supposed to start off with finance ministers, and now it's become a little bit bigger. What we're dealing with in America with supply chain is absolutely a big international event, and it's going to last very many months to a couple of years. Right? That's what most economists say, we're going to check with Rana in a second

[12:05:10]

CUOMO: But in terms of White House policy objectives, do they believe that there is assistance for the United States to be found here at the G20?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Absolutely. Because you saw President Biden recently come out and talk he met with these ports, with these shippers, with these warehouse executives, talking of what do they do to fix this? Because you're seeing it exacerbate -- be exacerbated. It could become a huge issue. They're concerned throughout the holidays, of course, and what that's going to look like? If is it only going to get worse? And obviously, no end in sight right now. That is a really big concern.

And so, they have an entire supply chain task force at the White House that is working on this. That they put together several months ago. But what President Biden announced is that, you know, two of these ports in California, Los Angeles, and Long Beach, they're going to be open 24/7, XYZ.

That can only do so much though, because not only domestically did they then need warehouses to be able to process this faster, they need truck drivers, it is also a global problem.

And so, that is -- there's only so much the United States could do to fix this. And there are other issues globally as well. And so, they are hoping to try to kind of make some movement on that, find some kind of breakthrough. While they are you're talking about it with other world leaders. Because, obviously, the president realizes what it is doing them at home, he is concerned about the economy, of course, that is one of his big things besides handling the pandemic.

So, that is something that they are having -- hoping to have some progress on tomorrow. That's going to be a big focus for him. Meeting with these world leaders, talking about the supply chain, and how do they fix this issue?

CUOMO: Rana, give us some context on this kind of double whammy, one, two punch that Biden is dealing with, that you have supply chain issues on one side, and then you have all this inflationary concern that politically the right keeps playing out, even though it's not new concern. But, you know, those two things, really, that's a tough combination to deal with.

RANA FOROOHAR, CNN GLOBAL ECONOMIC ANALYST (on camera): It is a tough combination politically, in the short term, very tough. But you know, Chris, all the things that we're talking about supply chains, the global minimum tax, inflation, this is all part of a larger change that's taking place right now.

One of the reasons that, you know, the G20, has come to agreement, as was just mentioned, on the -- on the minimum tax is that the beneficiaries of globalization in the last, really, arguably 40 years, certainly the last 20 years have been big companies.

What happened was rich countries kept headquarters and, you know, the making of the software and the ideas at home. But all the production and a lot of the jobs went to developing countries. And taxes could be, you know, taken in many places, these big tech companies, in particular, can put I.P. wherever they want. So, coming up with a way that you can actually read more wealth and place is what's being done right now with the minimum tax. That ties into supply chains because over the long term, I think that we're going to see a real rejiggering of global supply chains.

I think that we're not going to, you know, have the same paradigm for globalization where all the jobs are going overseas. And you know, the taxes are being offshored, you know, to global tax havens, and that's what's happening right now.

Short-term inflation is going to be a problem. But, I think, longer term, Biden's really addressing the big issues here. This is what needs to happen.

CUOMO: Another big topic here is COVID. Now, the president meets with the Pope, and we understand that the pope was very -- you need to up your game, and you got to get these G20 people to up their game and get more vaccines to impoverished countries.

I totally get his perspective on that. But we and even here in Italy, I'm sure everybody's noticed walking around, we're still very much in the grip of this thing here.

You know, they're very mask sensitive in this place, they're vaccine sensitive. So, what's the balance for the White House in terms of understanding its international commitments and how to help at home with COVID?

COLLINS: Yes, and Italy is obviously taking it incredibly seriously, given how hard hit they were by the pandemic. So, they do have some of the tightest restrictions in the world. And it's actually caused some tension in Italy with their requirements for workers to be vaccinated.

So, that's the scene here. But of course, it is representative of what's playing out in a lot of nations. And so, that is something that the president talks about in almost every single conversation he has with other world leaders, which is the state of their vaccination program, or often if they are from underdeveloped countries that do not have the level of development that the United States and other wealthy nations do.

They want vaccines and they are very interested in the vaccine sharing program which, of course, the White House is committed to donating 100 billion worldwide. Data, something they'd like to see, they want to see 70 percent of the world vaccinated by the middle of next year. That's been a talk among world leaders.

The question is, how do you actually do that? And how do you do it quickly? Because all these issues, we talked about: supply chain, the Iran deal, all these things, COVID is number one. And that is the number one to getting back to those being their top priorities.

And so, how they get this done is going to be a really critical question facing President Biden. Of course, every nation has to deal with their own country and vaccinating them first. That is a given for any world leader, but how they actually do this for third world countries, and these developed -- underdeveloped countries that do not have the infrastructure to keep a Pfizer vaccine out a very ultra-cold temperature.

[12:10:05]

COLLINS: Those are still issues that they are facing today and that is a big topic of discussion we're told among world leaders privately at these sessions.

CUOMO: You got a button for me?

ROBERTSON: Well, you know, both the U.K. and Germany are holdouts on the sort of waiver for intellectual property rights. So, yes, you can move the needle here. This summit on that which would go some way to helping the poorer nations actually get vaccines.

A couple of very quick figures for you. G20, 80 percent of the GDP. More than 80 percent of the population within the G20 nations has been vaccinated. In the developing world, only 3.1 percent of the population have had a single COVID vaccine. So, the figures are pretty stark. When --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Huge, huge imbalanced.

COLLINS: Yes.

ROBERTSON: When not all safe -- we're not safe until everyone is safe.

CUOMO: Huge imbalanced. All right, Kaitlan, Nic, thank you very much. Rana Foroohar, it's great to see you again.

Fred, back to you.

WHITFIELD: All right, gang, thank you so much. We'll check back with you.

All right, new details now on the many documents Donald Trump is seeking to hide from House investigators as they look into what happened on January 6th. The U.S. House told a federal court overnight that the former president has no legal right to protect those papers.

And their contents could prove to be explosive. More than 700 pages in the National Archives, including personal memos, visitor logs, phone records, and more all pertaining to January 6th.

Katelyn Polantz is following all of this for us from Washington. Katelyn, explain what is -- what are the other things in these papers potentially. And it might be obvious why Trump doesn't want them made public.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER (on camera): Well, Fred, we did not know until this point exactly what Donald Trump was trying to protect when he said as a former president, he should have executive privilege be able to assert it over papers from his presidency.

And now, we know there is paperwork, handwritten notes, e-mails, memos, draft proclamations, draft executive orders, talking points, all kinds of documents from his top advisors, closest staff.

I mean, we're talking about documents that came from the files of Chief of Staff Mark Meadows at the time, from the press secretary at the time.

And all of these records are records that were specific to January 6th, Trump's attempts to overturn the electoral count or stop the electoral count vote, and his interest in pushing the idea of election fraud.

Now, the reason we are all talking about this right now, and the reason it came out last night after midnight that these documents existed, is because Trump had filed a lawsuit in court, saying he wanted to prevent the Biden administration, the National Archives from releasing these documents to the House. And he also wanted to block the House January 6th investigation from getting access to these.

Fred, we are going to have a court hearing on Thursday, that's going to be very pivotal. And unless Trump gets a court order to block these documents, and to keep them private, they will be turned over to the House on November 12th.

WHITFIELD: All right. And then, we're also uncovering more on one of Trump's former attorneys was saying and doing around the day of the insurrection. What more are you learning about? A man by the name of John Eastman?

POLANTZ: Right. So, John Eastman is a lawyer who is outside of the White House. He is someone that was consulting with President Trump up to January 6th, and he's a figure in right-wing media.

In some ways, he went on a podcast. And this is according to CNN, KFILE's reporting. He went on a podcast with Steve Bannon on January 2nd to talk about exactly what he wanted out of Mike Pence when Mike Pence was getting ready to certify the Electoral College vote in Congress.

Here is what Eastman said in his conversation with Bannon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE BANNON, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF STRATEGIST (via telephone): Are we to assume that this is going to be a climactic battle that's going to take place this week about the very question of the constitutionality of the Electoral Count Act of 1877?

JOHN EASTMAN, FORMER AMERICAN LAW PROFESSOR: Well, I think a lot of that depends on the courage and the spine of the individuals involved.

BANNON: When you just said the courage in the spine, are you talking on the other side of the football? Would you be -- would you be -- that would be a nice way to say a guy named Mike -- Vice President Mike Pence?

EASTMAN: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POLANTZ: So, Eastman is talking about courage and spine of Mike Pence. At a time where he was proposing to Pence that Pence could toss out the popular vote of the country of several swing states, and instead, let the House of Representatives at the time which was held by Republicans decide who the president would be beginning in 2020.

And that reporting about Eastman and what he was thinking is much more direct than what we had were -- had heard from him before. We also are learning from last night, The Washington Post reported that even on January 6th, as the siege of the Capitol was going on. Eastman was e- mailing a lawyer to Pence and blaming him, saying -- writing in an e- mail --

[12:15:00]

POLANTZ: "The siege is because you and your boss did not do what was necessary to allow this to be aired in a public way so that the American people can see for themselves what happened."

POLANTZ (voice-over): That is pressure Eastman continue to put up to and even after the insurrection.

POLANTZ (on camera) And we did learn this past week that the House committee is planning to subpoena or interested in subpoenaing John Eastman to hear his side of the story and to learn more about what happened on those days.

WHITFIELD: All right, Katelyn Polantz, thank you so much.

All right. Still, ahead, news that will make this Halloween weekend even sweeter for kids and parents.

WHITFIELD (voice-over): And what we know about when and where 5to 11- year olds will be able to get a coronavirus vaccine.

And take a look at these live pictures from Rome, ahead of tonight's cultural program which will get underway in about an hour. We are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:19:57]

WHITFIELD (on camera): All right, some major news for parents and kids right ahead of Halloween, the FDA has granted emergency use authorization for Pfizer's COVID vaccine for children ages 5 to 11. A CDC advisory panel will review the data on Tuesday, and then soon after, possibly, CDC director Rochelle Walensky will make the final decision.

CNN's Nadia Romero reports. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Trick or treat.

NADIA ROMERO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Finally time for costumes and candy. Of course, with COVID-19 still lingering, masks have a double meeting this Halloween.

Pediatrician Dr. Gary Kirkilas says the urge to get out and enjoy the spooky tradition widely canceled or scaled-down last year, should come with some precautions this weekend.

DR. GARY KIRKILAS, GENERAL PEDIATRICIAN, PHOENIX CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL: You start to notice those -- the clustering of kids in front of doors where you have maybe like 14, 15 kids all together, there is -- there is some risk for viral transmission in those -- in those cases. So, I still recommend masking outdoors, definitely recommend masking indoors.

ROMERO: Even though kids are less likely to have severe complications from COVID-19 compared to adults.

KIRKILAS: It says right now, about 25 percent of viral transmission is occurring in children, and particularly grade school children, the exact same children that are not vaccinated or have the option to be vaccinated.

ROMERO: But that could soon change. Friday, the FDA issued emergency use authorization of Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine for children 5 to 11. Welcome news to Dr. William Gruber, who heads Pfizer's vaccine clinical research and development.

DR. WILLIAM GRUBER, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT OF VACCINE CLINICAL RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT, PFIZER: This is a great day for the health and well- being of children.

ROMERO: But a recent Kaiser Family Foundation survey shows about 66 percent of parents are somewhat or very concerned about the vaccines potential effect on their kids future fertility, despite the CDC saying there is no evidence that COVID-19 vaccines cause fertility problems.

GRUBER: There is no evidence to suggest nor is there any reason based on the components of the vaccine to expect any impact on fertility. And the CDC, other bodies have been very clear about that.

ROMERO: Before kids, ages 5 to 11 could get the shots, the CDC's advisory committee must recommend use of the vaccine, which could potentially come next week.

And Dr. Gruber hopes another trusted agency signing off on the vaccine will help hesitant parents be reassured in the vaccine for their kids.

GRUBER: Let's work to spread factual information and reduce myth circulating in the community. I think that's the best that we can do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMERO (on camera): So, Pfizer officials remain optimistic that the CDC will recommend its vaccine for kids ages 5 through 11. And the company is already looking at a much younger age group, 6 months to 4 years old.

Now, they say they'll have data on that age group by the end of the year. And Fred, they're hoping to start this whole process all over again, going back to FDA vaccine advisors at the beginning of 2022 for that age group: 6 months to 4 years old.

WHITFIELD: Wow! Extraordinary. All right. Well, lots of anticipation beginning with throughout this weekend and in into next week.

ROMERO: Absolutely.

WHITFIELD: All right, appreciate that. Nadia Romero, good to see you. Thank you.

ROMERO: Thanks to you.

WHITFIELD: All right, coming up next. A one notable name missing from the in-person guest list at the G20 summit underway right now. Russia's Vladimir Putin will go live from Moscow next for more on why he is keeping his distance.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:27:54]

CUOMO: President Biden here in Italy today, meeting with other leaders, notably discussing Iran and the nuclear deal.

A couple of the biggest names though in the G20 didn't show up, at least, in person.

President Xi of China and Russia's Vladimir Putin. Both of them saying that dealing with COVID issues back home did not allow them to show up in person.

Let's bring in CNN senior international correspondent Sam Kiley joining us from Moscow. Sam, COVID obviously still a big topic there, here, everywhere. And Putin did address it by video. What's the message and what's the impact?

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Well, the impact of the growing pandemic here is that we're in the fourth day, Chris, of a record numbers of deaths: 1,160 today, very serious new outbreak of COVID, partly, driven, it is believed by experts here by lack of take up because of suspicion over the indigenously produced vaccinations.

But Vladimir Putin is appealing or demanding from the international community that there be more mutual recognition of Russian vaccines overseas and perhaps vice versa.

So, this is how we put it to the G20.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA (through translator): Let me remind you that Russia was the first in the world to register a vaccine against COVID-19. The Sputnik V.

To date, this drug has already been approved in 70 countries of the world with a total population of over 4 billion people, and demonstrates high safety and effectiveness.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KILEY: Now, Putin is also staying away for sound political -- geopolitical reasons. I think, Chris, he is focused entirely on a future bilateral with the U.S. president. He's not much interested in meeting with any others other than the president of China, and, of course, his rivals in the G20, notably, the Europeans, and United States are not quite at each other's throats, but there's a great deal of friction there between the U.K. and mainland Europe, between the U.S. and France -- between U.K. and France, and so on.

[12:30:06]

KILEY: So, he's rather enjoying that position and not getting tangled up in any of that grubby multilateralism that the G20's all about, Chris.

CUOMO: Sam Kiley in Moscow, thank you very much.

Let's go back to Fredricka Whitfield in Atlanta.

Fred, you know, Vladimir Putin can brag about his vaccine, but he's got to look at his numbers at home. And they are not good when it comes to the pandemic.

WHITFIELD: No, they haven't been good from the very beginning and it doesn't seem to be improving. So yes, that's going to be a tough sell globally, especially. All right, thanks so much, Chris. We'll check back with you.

Alright, still ahead, more on the new January 6th court filings that reveal what records Trump is trying to keep secret from Congress. We'll chat with an expert on the latest in the insurrection investigation, next.

And since January 6th private militias have been in the headlines but what do we really know about them this week? This is ife uncovers how it constitutionally granted right has led to the modern militias of today watching all new, This is Life with Lisa Ling tomorrow night at 10:00.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:35:43] WHITFIELD: All right, a court filing from the National Archives is shedding new light on the many records from January 6th that Donald Trump wants to keep in the dark. It's the best indication we've gotten so far of what the former president is intent on hiding from his daily calendar to phone logs and personal memos from a number of staffers.

Longtime Republican election lawyer Ben Ginsburg joining me right now. So Ben, so good to see you. First off, you know, your reaction now to the extent to which the former president wants to keep things hidden?

BEN GINSBERG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Vicky pretty obviously wants to keep everything hidden. From his point of view, there's no good that can come from any light being shed on his activities around January 6th (INAUDIBLE) really hard to keep it secret. And it's clear from the list that the National Archives produced overnight, that there are significant information that will shed light on his activities surrounding January 6th.

WHITFIELD: So the whole purpose here is to zero in on the communications involving the President on the day of January 6th. And what are the parameters of this communication? You know, how far reaching could it potentially go?

GINSBERG: The documents that the National Archives are talking about would create a pretty complete picture of what the President did on that day, who he talked to, and some of his communications. And so it can be a really complete picture that they have fought to keep away from public scrutiny.

WHITFIELD: And so that the President has demonstrated delay, delay, delay is a tactic he has used, you know, for a very long time, whether it be on legal matters that he has been involved in, or whether it is about other matters when he was in the White House. So what are your thoughts about this strategy that he's using now of further delays until after next year's midterms or perhaps right up into the next presidential election?

GINSBERG: I think they realize that they have a very weak argument, actually, on the merits of executive privilege in this case, but they do have the advantage of the process being really slow. And so I think that trying to stretch the time period is exactly right because look, the -- as of right now, nobody has information in the public record about Donald Trump's role in fomenting the insurrection.

So the materials asked for do paint a picture of that, though, they'll reveal who he was talking to, what was being said. And it'll be a question of executive privilege. So my guess is, is that a judge will allow all the national archive documents to come to the judges chamber, then he'll have to make a judgment about whether executive privilege applies. And of course, there is such a thing as executive privilege, but it's not absolute, especially not in the context of a potential criminal act, such as an interaction.

WHITFIELD: And this White House has already said it would not extend executive privilege on other matters. Why would this former President think under any of these circumstances, he might be able to enjoy executive privilege?

GINSBERG: Well, I suspect, because it's an open letter, open question in the courts, the courts have never dealt specifically with this question of whether a former president can exert executive privilege over actions that honestly may not be official actions. They may be more in the area of campaign. And so he is relying on the fact that it is an open question in the law to be able to slow things down.

WHITFIELD: All right, Ben Ginsburg, thank you so much, always good to see you. Be well.

[12:40:00]

GINSBERG: Thanks, Fred, good to see you.

WHITFIELD: And then we have this breaking news. Right now, CNN just learning what -- that a vote may come as soon as Tuesday on both the infrastructure bill and economic plan for this White House that it's been promoting and hoping for especially just ahead of President Biden heading overseas. Manu Raju is with us right now. Manu, I think you're on the phone with us. What are you learning?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I do, House Democratic leaders are pushing for a vote on both bills as soon as Tuesday that is both the $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill, the bill that actually they have delayed three times because of opposition from progressives who wanted also to move at the same time to larger economic tax, which is now stands at $1.75 trillion. They wanted both those to move at the same time, and they may get their wish.

Democratic leaders are looking at Tuesday to move both that infrastructure bill and the larger bill out of the House. Now I'm hearing that they're talking about making some changes to the larger bill. It's unclear exactly what they're planning on changing, but a new version of that bill could be introduced tomorrow. And then Monday, House Rules Committee could take up that bill and set the stage for a floor debate that would happen on Tuesday, and then this bill presumably would pass.

Now, it still remains to be seen exactly how this plays out because progressives have demanded that the Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema the two moderate Democratic senators, that they are in favor of the larger package. But so far, Sinema has said only positive things about the bill but not has said that you support it.

And Joe Manchin has essentially declined to comment that he's talking in good faith, but saying that he is in favor of the larger that the price tag. He told me a couple of days ago to $1.75 trillion is probably OK with them. But the program by program it details of it, he is not weighed on.

Nevertheless, the Democratic leaders are pushing ahead. They want to get the final vote on Tuesday on the infrastructure bill. And Fred, if that passes the House on Tuesday, then Joe Biden could finally sign this legislation into law. It has passed the Senate in August. But then after that would happen if they were to pass the larger bill, but then the Senate would have to take up the larger bill that may not happen until later in November.

And then it's still uncertain how that would play out on the floor. And if Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema will be there at the end of the day, but as development here because they want to move forward and get this bill done just a matter of a couple of days. So presumably, Joe Biden could be on the cusp of a victory as long as Democrats vote yes.

WHITFIELD: So largely, the Democrats, including the President have always wanted to move forward. But the difference was, they didn't feel like they necessarily had the support in order to even meet the Halloween, by Halloween deadline. So that Manu, you're reporting that there is a Tuesday vote is one to surmise that how Speaker Pelosi feels like the votes are there so as to have a successful Tuesday vote.

RAJU: Yes, she is -- she's to make sure that she has the vote. And as we've seen, Fred, time and again, when she does not have the votes, she'll pull that back, as she's done three times with the infrastructure bill. So if the progressives decide, we're not ready to support the infrastructure bill yet, because we need Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema to agree to the larger expansion of the social safety net, then perhaps they may have to change their strategy.

But they have demanded the progressives have that both bills move at the exact same time. So now that it appears that it's, that's going to happen here, it's probably a good bet that a lot of progressives will fall in line, they'll vote yes. And perhaps that infrastructure bill will be done. And then they could move on to getting that larger bill out of the Senate, in a few weeks.

But there's very little margin for error, Fred, in the House, just a three vote, they could only afford to lose three votes in the House, the Democrats can. And if any of the Moderates buckle on that larger bill, perhaps you don't get it out. So still a lot of questions about how this ultimately plays out.

WHITFIELD: All right, so thus far right now, the new goal is Tuesday, but a lot can happen between now and then. Manu Raju, thank you so much for joining us. Appreciate that with that breaking news.

RAJU: Thanks Fred.

[12:44:10]

WHITFIELD: All right, coming up next, police in New Mexico still seeking out answers to explain what went so horribly wrong on the movie set of Alec Baldwin's movie "Rust."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, we're hearing from the armorer for the "Rust" movie. Attorneys for Hannah Gutierrez releasing a statement saying she has no idea how live ammo got on the set. Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was killed in that fatal shooting last week and we've learned that her family and close friends will gather for a private funeral tomorrow. Joining me right now is attorney Jeff Harris. Jeff, so good to see you again. I mean, a lot has happened, you know, the last since the last time we spoke last weekend. So now we've got the statement from the attorney for Hannah Gutierrez. How does the armorer not know about live rounds on the set or in the vicinity? Investigators say they confiscated 500 rounds of ammunition on the set. So how would it get there or be there without the armorer knowing?

JEFFREY R. HARRIS, ATTORNEY: Well, you're right. A lot has happened in the in the case this week. And we know a lot more about the sequence of events but we still don't know the answer to that question which is how did alive ballistic around find its way onto a movie set.

We do know that that should never happen. And what appears to be evident here is that there was a terrible chain of custody on this set. And what you have to do is you have to make sure that all of the weapons on the set and all of the ammunition on a set are accounted for.

[12:50:20]

And so you have a very stringent chain of custody to keep this kind of thing from happening. And we know from the sheriff's press conference and the affidavits that have been submitted, that they found live ballistic rounds intermingled with dummy rounds, which is a recipe for disaster because the dummy round is supposed to look like live ammunition. And that's what makes this so dangerous.

WHITFIELD: So the neck would go back to whose role typically on a set, I mean, we're all learning new terminology, as it pertains to titles and roles on sets, prop master, you know, armorer, who would have their hands on dummy rounds versus live rounds, putting them in compartments, you know, keeping a log of what goes where?

HARRIS: Well, the armorer is the person on the set who is responsible for the weapons and for the ammunition, but they're typically on movie sets or redundant safety systems in place. And you've heard some discussion about the first assistant director, the first AD on a movie set is the primary person responsible for safety. And the problem with that job is that they're also the primary person responsible for moving things along and making sure that things are going quickly.

So there's a lot of pressure to move quickly but those are the kinds of circumstances where safety protocols get missed. And it just seems obvious to me that this armorer was overworked. You know, she didn't have the requisite background. And she's -- it sounds like what our loggers are saying is that had indicated that she felt like she wasn't up to the job, and that she needed more people. And she didn't get the resources that she need from the production company.

So ultimately, that's going to be a big question in this case, was the production company negligent for setting this thing up for failure by not providing the adequate resources that they needed to make sure that this was going to be a safe shoot?

WHITFIELD: Right. And that's when the -- that's why under those circumstances too, the Alec Baldwin name comes up as the actor because he was also one of the producers, even though most experienced veteran armorers would say the actor is never responsible for checking things like, you know, prop guns that would not be in their wheelhouse.

But you're saying if we're talking about finances, or cutting corners, that's why the name Alec Baldwin may be a pertinent person to ask because he was one of the producers and where the money goes, where the resources goes. I mean, those are questions that are going to be asked in this investigation.

HARRIS: Yes, we're going to have to know a lot more about what it means when Alec Baldwin calls himself a producer, it's very common for actors to get producer credits, and they don't actually involve themselves in the day to day operations of the film. But, you know, those are questions that are going to have to be answered.

Which of the producers were actively involved in management and which of the producers were you know, investors, or people who are getting what you call vanity credits, they want to be able to call themselves a producer at a cocktail party. Those are the things we're going to have to find out about in the future.

WHITFIELD: Yes, fascinating. But at the same time, bottom line, it's all so very sad. Jeff Harris, thank you so much for being back with us. Appreciate it.

HARRIS: Thank you. Take care.

[12:53:28]

WHITFIELD: Thank you. And we're back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, for 15 years CNN has put a spotlight on everyday people changing the world. Here's Anderson Cooper with this year's top 10 CNN Heroes of 2021.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Anderson Cooper. This year, we celebrate a milestone, the 50th anniversary of CNN Heroes. For a decade and a half we've had the honor of introducing you to extraordinary everyday people who are changing the world. And in a time when we need kindness and courage more than ever, we're thrilled to announce this year's top 10 CNN Heroes.

From Philadelphia, pediatric surgeon Ala Stanford saw COVID-19 ravaging communities of color, so she built trust and brought testing and vaccinations to more than 75,000 people.

From San Francisco, David Flink is building understanding and confidence using his journey with ADHD and dyslexia to help kids with learning differences across America thrive.

In New York City, Hector Guadalupe uses fitness training to help formerly incarcerated men and women like himself, get family sustaining jobs and build careers.

From Cartagena, Colombia, Jennifer Colpas brings ecofriendly energy, safe water, and sanitation to struggling Colombians living in remote areas.

Linda Doughty of Phippsburg, Maine, monitors 2,500 miles of coastline, providing lifesaving support and medical care to thousands of marine animals.

From Bali, Indonesia, exchanging plastic waste for rice, restaurant owner Made Janur Yasa has sent tons of plastic for recycling and provided food to thousands of families during the pandemic.

And in Simi Valley, California, Michele Neff Hernandez has turned her profound grief into sustaining support for the widow.

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