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House Democratic Leaders Pushing To Hold Votes On Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill And Social Spending Bill Within One Week; President Biden Attends G-20 Summit in Rome; Leaders At G-20 Endorse President Biden's Call For 15 Percent Global Minimum Tax; President Biden Meeting With European Leaders On Possible Renewal Of Nuclear Deal With Iran; Gubernatorial Candidates Republican Glenn Youngkin And Democrat Terry McAuliffe Make Final Pitches To Voters In Virginia. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired October 30, 2021 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:00:20]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Hello again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me this Saturday. I'm Fredricka Whitfield in Atlanta.

And we're following breaking news on Capitol Hill. Sources telling CNN that House Democratic leaders are pushing to hold votes on both the bipartisan infrastructure bill and the president's larger social spending plan as early as Tuesday. For the very latest, let's bring in Suzanne Malveaux on Capitol Hill. Suzanne, what are you learning?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Fred, once again the goalpost is moving, and this is pretty typical of the sausage making here on Capitol Hill. But this could be significant if it does not change. Once again the House leadership looking for Tuesday as a new possible date to put both of those bills to a vote and to a real test here.

We have heard this story before, we've seen it before, but there seems to be at least some momentum that is building towards that day. You're talking about the $1.2 trillion infrastructure, bipartisan infrastructure plan, as well as the $1.75 larger spending package that would go through with Democrats only in support of it.

So, Fred, what is this about? Part of it is optics, momentum. Some of it is driven by need and politics as well. And this could play out in the next 48 to 72 hours with tomorrow, potentially tomorrow as early, as new details of that larger bill, the text for people to take a look at. They took a recess really to give everyone a pushback, a break. There might be some new texts that people can sign off on the details, if you will, of that larger bill.

And that would be followed by Monday, the rules committee making sure that this is the kind of bill that would be able to go through what is called the reconciliation process, and that really is the budget rules determined by the Senate to make sure that it follows those budget rules, so that just requires a simple majority.

And then if you have that on Monday, Tuesday is the day that they could bring -- House Speaker Nancy Pelosi bring both of those bills to the House floor. We know that at least for infrastructure it had been passed by the Senate earlier, and so that would be very significant if the House could pass that and send along to the Senate. The president would be able to sign it rather quickly.

As for the larger spending piece, they could vote for that as well, that package. But that would have to go back to the Senate and could go through a number of changes by the time it actually becomes law. But, Fred, what is important and what is significant here is the timing of all of this. Sometimes it seems a little bit arbitrary. We looked at the Halloween deadline, and that was based on highway transportation funding. That had been kicked down the can with an extension.

Why Tuesday? Well, look at the calendar here. The president will be coming back late Tuesday, early morning from this overseas trip. It could be a big victory, really a big gift to the president if he could sign that infrastructure bill the following day as he hits American soil, showing that he really does have a push for his domestic agenda, Fred.

WHITFIELD: And of course -- and if not, that jetlag is going to be really painful. I know they're optimistic about Tuesday, but there you go.

MALVEAUX: We shall see.

WHITFIELD: That's right. Suzanne Malveaux, thank you so much.

And now to our breaking coverage out of Rome where President Biden is and where he's about to attend a gala dinner with other world leaders, wrapping up the day one of the G-20 summit you see right there. And you see outgoing German Chancellor Angela Merkel there.

We're going to get a little bit more backstory on that moment and what's happening. But you see leaders from the U.K., France, among others, and the u.s., of course, say they are convinced that it is possible to quickly restore the Iran nuclear deal despite talks stalling out over the summer. The U.S. withdrew from the agreement in 2018.

But there's still so much more on President Biden's plate as the summit continues tomorrow. Let's go to Rome right now. CNN's Chris Cuomo continues coverage from there. Hello again, Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: How are you? It is an evolving scene here. Let's bring in CNN senior White House correspondent Phil Mattingly, CNN international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson, and CNN global affairs analyst Aaron David Miller. It's good to have you all here. Thanks, ADM, for joining us from back home.

Let's first not ignore what's happening back in the United States. This idea that, well, hope this happens, Phil -- that's not the kind of situation it is. If they have a vote of any kind after all the missteps that doesn't happen, that's almost going to be disastrous for Biden for at least five days of coverage. They have to get this right if they're going to do it on Tuesday. Do you think it happens then?

[14:05:03]

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I learned not to make predictions around November, 2016.

CUOMO: You must.

MATTINGLY: Legislatively, I learned not to make predictions probably my second week back in 2007.

Look, here when you talk to White House officials, and also I'm been talking to Democrats on Capitol Hill the last 24 hours, they want to keep the pressure on to move. White House officials don't want to touch deadlines, but they have made clear they think the House needs to move next week.

And there's a couple of reasons. One, they want to ensure that this does not run up against the debt ceiling fight, the government funding fight, which is now all tagged to that first week of December. And in order to do that, because of how the Senate operates, the House would have to move as soon as next week.

The other thing, too, and Democratic leaders, Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Majority Leader Chuck Schumer made this very clear privately to their members, I'm told. If you want changes or something specific into the framework that the president laid out and the legislative text we saw start to populate on Thursday, you need to tell us now, we need to address it this weekend. In other words, they were making very clear, next week is the week that they want to move.

Can they get the vote by Tuesday? If we've learned anything over the course of the last 35 days is that they won't put anything on the floor if they don't have the votes. So maybe they vote on Tuesday, maybe they don't vote on Tuesday. I think the most important thing when you talk to both officials and Democrats on Capitol Hill is to keep the pressure on to try and get things to the finish line.

And this goes back to something we talked about on Thursday night here when they punted once again. They did make progress. And I think while they didn't get the vote and while they did miss the deadline, and while the president didn't land in Rome with something in his pocket, the reality is they backed the $1.75 trillion framework, the backed a lot of the key elements of that framework.

They seemed to accept that a lot of pieces that a lot of Democrats wanted in the proposal weren't going to be in there. Now they need to flesh out the details and finish up a couple final fights. That's what the next 48 hours are going to be about. Speaker Pelosi making clear she wants to try and push.

CUOMO: So that's at home. Here, President Biden, Nic, has been introduced to the idea of, hey, the Iran deal actually matters to us. And you guys walked away from it. I know it wasn't you, but now what are we going to do? We believe it's possible to quickly reassert ourselves. What does that mean?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: I think in the context of the way we're hearing it today is that the Europeans, the British, the French, the Germans, who are part of the negotiating team of the JCPOA, really want the United States back on board. Iran has been sort of using the Europeans as a way to communicate with the United States indirectly, or at least send messaging.

The Europeans, and I think we can understand this because it was the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, who called for this meeting today, they're concerned about what happens if this doesn't work out. If you look at the joint communique, there are some carrots in there for the Iranians, that sanctions can be dropped, and countries just across the Gulf from you, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, others can step in and start to get some of the money moving that's been stalled and stopped in terms of economic trade by those sanctions. So there's carrots there.

The line in the agreement that I see, the statement today that says there's a determination to go beyond the JCPOA to essentially limit Iran's ballistic missiles and limit their malign interference in the region, those in the past have been red lines for Iran. So I do wonder about how far this can go.

Hence, I think the accuracy of your question undoubtedly, why are the Europeans saying this? And it is quite simply they don't want this to go off the rails. They do want to encourage the United States. They do know that potentially there's a raft of sanctions that can come into play. And there are other actors in this who could even destabilize the situation further. So I think this is the broader context at this time.

CUOMO: Aaron David Miller, you have tutored me on this issue many times. And you warned against President Trump walking away from this deal. How much damage was done by the United States walking away?

AARON DAVID MILLER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, certainly to our credibility, as a general proposition. But specifically, Chris, the maximum pressure campaign, and it was maximum pressure over the course of the last four years, has only accelerated Iran's nuclear program.

It's brought them closer to developing enough fissile material to produce one weapon. That's not a say a deliverable nuclear weapon, but enough fissile material to make a weapon should they choose to weaponize. It sowed division among our allies. And I think it's, in many respects, now created a set of hoops and hurdles that are much more difficult and problematic.

I worry about the word "quickly." I think Nic is right. This is optics that are generated by the Europeans, but they're optics untethered from reality. The Iranians haven't even set a date to come back to Vienna. And as you know as well as I, Middle East negotiations usually have two speeds, slow and slower. So I wouldn't put a whole lot of money in the bank on a quick return, plus an agreement. CUOMO: What does it mean that Angela Merkel called for the meeting

when she's on the way out?

MILLER: Well, I think Merkel led on this issue. I think she was in many respects tough on the Iranians, but she sees the importance of keeping the allies unified and the importance of negotiating an accord. But I think the premium is on your last several words, on the way out. This is now going to be left to her successor and Macron, who in a leaderless year in many respects, is now going to play an increasingly prominent role should he win election.

CUOMO: Phil, the United States, the reason they want to expand is because Biden's team is just as worried about what Iran is doing on the ground in different conflicts as what they're doing in terms of their enrichment. How important is it for them in terms of a negotiating point?

MATTINGLY: I think there's a recognition both because of the realities of what's happening on the ground, because of their ballistic missile program and its advancements, because of the malign influence, that it is a necessity to address and have a broader deal. But I also think they understand the domestic political realities as well, which is to go back into the JCPOA while those very real and very urgent problems are lingering outside of it is a nonstarter. Even for --

CUOMO: Sorry about that.

MATTINGLY: That's a good song.

CUOMO: You know what, it is actually a comedian putting that out there. But that's OK.

MATTINGLY: That's all right.

CUOMO: What were you saying? I'm sorry.

MATTINGLY: Just that both from the geopolitical perspective and from national security perspective they absolutely have to pursue a broader deal, and from a domestic political perspective it is a nonstarter to go back to the original JCPOA. And I think what that is is a recognition that even though the JCPOA was perhaps the best of nothing but bad options, it simply isn't viewed as sustainable, not just by Republicans who always, but also by a number of Democrats.

CUOMO: So the Europeans now get that, though, right? They know what the presentation is from the Biden administration. If it were going to be quick, it would mean that they would just re-sign back with where they were. And if that's not -- if that's not an option for the United States, then what is the best case scenario in terms of how to leave the G-20?

ROBERTSON: The best case for the United States to leave the G-20 on this issue, I think the best case scenario is to nod and move on and deal with this later, whenever the Iranians choose to come back to the table. I think exposing the difficulties within it, because that shows the Iranians with the pressure points they have over the United States and the gaps they can open up in the negotiations, that's not very good for the United States right now.

It's like just take it, move on, and come back to it when you need to come back to it. And it is going to be a least worst case scenario, and I cannot see a world where President Biden, if this happens, doesn't take political heat back home. But the reality will be the world could be a far worse place in the short-term if there isn't some kind of deal, because then what are the options on the table?

And that's the hard political sell for President Biden back home, as it was for President Obama. We saw him in 2015 trying to say, this is on John Kerry as well, trying to say this is the best we can get right now. And the reality was it was. The erosions have happened. Iran is so far out of compliance it wouldn't even let the International Atomic Energy Agency into some of the places where they're building their centrifuges, which is, again, completely against the rules.

So they're so far out of compliance, the dangers right now are very real, and the Europeans recognize that too. But take it, move on, and then just try and have the conversations quietly. Maybe part of this was messaging for the Iranians, too. Look, this can be done quickly, there's some things here for you. They're not that stupid. And as we heard from Aaron David Miller, there are two speeds, slow and Middle Eastern.

CUOMO: Gentlemen, thank you very much. Let me bring it back to Fred.

WHITFIELD: OK, thanks so much, gentlemen. Appreciate that.

Coming up next, a governor's race that could tell us a lot about the mood of voters. Guess what? It's just days away, and it may come down to the influence of two people not in the race, President Biden or former President Trump. We'll break down the state of that race in Virginia next.

Plus, an update in the investigation into the deadly tragedy on the set of Alec Baldwin's movie "Rust."

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[14:18:53]

WHITFIELD: The clock is ticking on early voting in Virginia. Today is the last day, and both candidates for governor are taking different approaches in their last pitches. Democratic candidate Terry McAuliffe closing a campaign that relied heavily on celebrities and big names, including Vice President Harris and President Biden to help boost support for the former governor. There was also the former president, Obama, stumping for him.

Meanwhile, Republican candidate Glenn Youngkin went it alone for the most part, even shying away from former president Donald Trump.

With me to discuss is a CNN political analyst Toluse Olorunnipa. Toluse, good to see you. So this race is close, I mean really close, right? Razor thin margin, it seems. Do you think voters are feeling the pressure, especially those who did not take part in early voting? TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: There is increasing pressure

from both sides of the aisle. Republicans are trying to turn their voters out by taking advantage of the fact that there's a Democrat in the White House, there are Democrats in charge in Congress, and usually when one party is in charge the other party in Virginia ends up winning the governorship.

[14:20:01]

So they're trying to take advantage of history and turn out their voters and rely on some of that momentum that they have just from history and the fact that their voters tend to be more motivated when they're not in power.

Now, Democrats are trying to motivate their base as well. They're trying to use the power of Donald Trump as an antagonist by saying if you vote for Glenn Youngkin, you're going to have more years of Donald Trump-style politics in Virginia. And we saw Virginia turn much more blue during the Trump years.

So Democrats have a formula, but so far it seems like they are having a little bit of trouble getting that enthusiasm from a lot of their base voters, minorities, younger voters, people who turn out during presidential elections. So far when it comes to early voting, have lagged behind, so that now they're feeling the pressure to get those voters out over the next couple of days before the election on Tuesday.

WHITFIELD: And all that you just said is underscoring just how curious and mysterious this race really is, and how tight it is. Republican candidate Glenn Youngkin telling CNN's Dana Bash that he will not be attending Trump's tele townhall on Monday. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: The president is doing a tele rally on Monday. Will you attend, and do you welcome him to Virginia?

GLENN YOUNGKIN, (R) VIRGINIA GUBERNATORIAL NOMINEE: So I haven't been involved in that. The teams are talking, I'm sure.

BASH: I'm sure they would love to have you. Would you like to do that?

YOUNGKIN: I'll answer you in a second. I've been out campaigning. I'm not going to be engaged in the tele townhall. But we have more people helping us than you can possibly believe. This is about unity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So he really does seem to want to distinguish himself as this kind of go it alone. And is that -- is there any way of telling whether that is impacting or helping him in what is now a very tight race?

OLORUNNIPA: We will see when the numbers start coming in whether or not he can keep hold on the Trump base, because a lot of times Trump base voters tend to stay home when it comes to voting for Republicans that don't embrace Donald Trump wholeheartedly. So it doesn't appear at this point that he's scared away the Trump voters. Trump hasn't attacked him any way on social media so say stay home or don't vote for Glenn Youngkin.

So if he's able to keep those Trump base voters and win back some of the voters who are traditionally Republicans but decided they had enough of Trump, they didn't like his brand of politics, and they see in Glenn Youngkin someone who is a little more moderate, a little bit palatable to suburban voters, he could thread the needle and turn Virginia back into a purple state.

It's been trending blue for quite a while, and that's why you hear Terry McAuliffe and the Democrats really try to tie him to Donald Trump so that those suburban voters, those voters in the norther part of the state close to the D.C. region essentially say we may not like what's happening in the White House, we may have been Republican before Trump, but we can't go back to that brand of politics.

We have to do what's necessary and vote for another Democrat in order to keep our politics from being so toxic as they were during the Trump years.

WHITFIELD: And in fact, this is what Democratic candidate Terry McAuliffe told CNN's Dan Merica on the whole Trump factor. This was him on the campaign trail.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TERRY MCAULIFFE, (D) VIRGINIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: No, Trump is not liked here in the commonwealth of Virginia. People remember Charlottesville when he failed us that day, horrible day, when he said there were fine people on both sides. And that was a tragic day. We lost Heather Heyer. I lost state troopers, including my pilot and a member of my security detail. And Donald Trump said there were good people on both sides.

But people want to be lifted up. Trump is hate and division. He wants to run again in 2024. I think he wants to use this, Dan, as a launchpad for that. That's pretty clear. That's why he's endorsed Youngkin seven or eight times, seven or eight times.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So this is part of his strategy, saying let's be uplifting, let's try and keep it positive. And is that what potentially could move the needle for him among voters?

OLORUNNIPA: It worked in 2020. The prospect of having Donald Trump back in the White House was motivating enough to get a lot of voters out, record numbers of voters ended up voting against Donald Trump and for Joe Biden. We're really waiting to see whether that can be an effective strategy in the year when Donald Trump is not actually on the ballot. And a lot of Democrats in Congress and in other states that have

elections coming up in the midterms next year are also watching this race very closely to see if that strategy will be successful, because even though former president Trump is no longer in the White House, he's still out there publicly talking about 2020. He's still out there making toxic and inflammatory statements.

And Democrats like that, and they think that will help them continue to get motivation from voters who may not love their agenda, but like the fact that they are not Donald Trump. And that's why you hear Terry McAuliffe every time he's out on the campaign trail tie Glenn Youngkin to the former president as often as possible to try to link them and try to make sure that the success the Democrats have had during the Trump years in Virginia will continue in the post-Trump years as well.

[14:25:05]

WHITFIELD: All right, Toluse Olorunnipa, always great to see you. Thanks so much.

OLORUNNIPA: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: And of course, we'll have more of the Youngkin interview tomorrow on STATE OF THE UNION with Dana Bash.

And since January 6th, private militias have been in the headlines, but what do you really know about them? This week, "This is Life" uncovers how a constitutionally granted right has led to modern militias of today. Watch an all new "This is Life" with Lisa Ling tomorrow night at 10:00.

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[14:30:12]

CUOMO: Welcome back to the G-20 summit in Rome. I'm Chris Cuomo. We're in the final stretch of day one of this very important summit. Here's a little live look, dinner arrivals, leaders from around the world and spouses in attendance. Dinners wrap up to a long day of high-stakes meetings. Significant progress on a number of issues. What does that mean?

Back with me, Nic Robertson and Phil Mattingly. Also joining us, CNN contributor Kate Andersen Brower. So Nic Robertson, progress on big issues, what would you list as the two or three items that are worth noting?

ROBERTSON: I think making up with Emmanuel Macron was important for the French, important for that relationship, and that's something that will play back over time. I think the Iran talks were useful for all sides to see where they were. Nothing was expected to come out of it in terms of product, but I think this was good housekeeping for all four nations here, the Germans, the French, the British, and President Biden to see where each other stand.

And I think the global corporate tax, having an agreement there, is beneficial globally. These are the most powerful, wealthy nations. This will help stop a race to the bottom, so it helps stop that competition, but also makes sure the small guy benefits properly from taxation paid by big corporations that have otherwise been escaping it. And this is what part of the summit is about, is a better equitable distribution and use of the global wealth.

CUOMO: That is what the G-20 is all about, Phil, right? This was designed in 1999 to make up for the shortcomings of the productivity of the G-7. And it's supposed to be about finances and economics primarily. How do you think the White House is feeling about it so far?

MATTINGLY: I think they're positive for the most. I think they recognize that it's a work in progress. And I think they also recognize, to Nic's point, the global minimum tax was absolutely the biggest thing that they knew they were going to get out of it. They had it locked in before they showed up here. A lot of what they wanted to take out of this three or four-day period was what they got bilaterally and what they got multilaterally.

And I think Nic actually makes a really interest point. I was reading some stuff from a senior administration official a shot while ago in terms of the discussions on Iran. And we were talking about the statement, it seemed optimistic. And I think you go underneath the statement, and the idea of the leaders getting on a granular level and really understanding where things stood, you have to understand, these talks to the extent they've happened, one, haven't been necessarily Iran and the U.S. sitting down in a room at all.

But they have been, by point people for each country. And having the leaders really lay out, OK, here's what we need, here's what we want, here's where things stand, here's where we think things can go forward, that's important.

And I think tomorrow what the U.S. recognizes is, one, a pretty important bilateral meeting with President Erdogan of Turkey. There's some issues five or six days ago. They seem to at least be in a good enough place to meet. That matters regionally for a number of different reasons. Obviously, a NATO ally as well, but also supply chain issues.

If you want to talk about economics, you want to talk about the economy, what the G-20 was originally created for, the supply chain, and whether or not you could get something out of that meeting, commitments from the 15 or 16 leaders expected to show up, that would be tangible.

CUOMO: Kate, the idea of meeting the Erdogan, obviously, Turkey always a relevant player, the largest standing army in the region. What does that mean in terms of the United States' agenda going into that meeting? What do they want to be able to say on the way out?

KATE ANDERSEN BROWER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think -- I write and talk a lot about first ladies, and so to your point about relationship- building, this is all about bringing the U.S. back to the table and really reinforcing these relationships. And I think what Dr. Biden did yesterday, having a glass of chardonnay with the French president's wife, these are softer relationships.

And I heard you, Chris, talking earlier about the dinner tonight, and how breaking bread and having these kind of one-on-one meetings, how important and essential that is. And so we're going to see Dr. Biden in Monday on Naples, doing a joining forces initiative, going to a U.S. military base there. So we're going to see the U.S. really back as a major player.

CUOMO: What did you think, Kate, of the role of Dr. Biden in the Papal meeting? It was really interesting, she went in. They had her kind of shown around first. We showed her exit first, also. She had that traditional -- usually they want you in all black when you meet the Pope, so women will wear a black veil over their heads. What did that mean for the Biden family?

BROWER: We know they're very religious. She's the first First Lady who is Italian-American, so it's very meaningful for her. And we know after the death of their son, she has been talking to a prayer sort of adviser, which I thought was very interesting, how she really connects with people about going through personal loss.

[14:35:10]

And so we know it was very meaningful and important for her, and I think that they're really trying to -- at least the First Lady office is trying to make the point that she has ties to Italy. She loves the country. They went there for Thanksgiving after Beau's death, actually. So it was an incredibly meaningful moment for her to meet with the Pope, absolutely.

CUOMO: Appreciate that perspective. Thank you so much. Phil Mattingly, Nic Robertson, Kate Andersen Brower, appreciate it. Do you know what they call it when an Irish guy marries an Italian?

MATTINGLY: Is this going to get us all fired?

CUOMO: Marrying up, they call it.

ROBERTSON: A marriage made in heaven.

CUOMO: There it is, marrying up.

Fred, we're going to come back to you. No, we're going to go to break. No, I would rather to go to you, Fred. If I have a choice --

WHITFIELD: It's OK, I'm enjoying the conversation.

CUOMO: I would rather go back to you then go to break, you know what I mean?

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: I'm just saying, if I have an option, I would rather talk to you than toss to a break. That's just me. That's just how I feel about it. WHITFIELD: OK, and I appreciate it. Next time I'll be sitting right alongside. How about that? And then we can really have a nice big conversation.

CUOMO: You would up the collective I.Q. by 35 points if you were to do that. It would be great to have you.

MATTINGLY: A little more than that, actually.

CUOMO: Especially if you were in my chair. If you're in my chair, it's up 85 points. If you're in any other chair, then we have to average it, because these guys are actually --

WHITFIELD: Hey, I'm just glad we're all together.

CUOMO: It's great to be with you, Fred.

WHITFIELD: In whatever capacity, here we are. That's cool. Good to see you guys. Thank you so much.

We're going to take a short break for now. We'll be right back.

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[14:41:19]

WHITFIELD: The Santa Fe County sheriff says he has more questions than answers after attorneys for the movie "Rust," the armorer, Hannah Gutierrez, released a statement Friday defending herself from allegations that she mishandled weapons on a previous project. With me now is Stu Brumbaugh.

He works as a key grip in the industry and was on set with both "Rust" armorer Hannah Gutierrez and assistant director Dave Halls on previous projects, not the "Rust" project, but previous ones. So good to see you. So as you reflect, and I realize every production is different, but as you reflect, what was it like to work with both of them?

STU BRUMBAUGH, OWNER/OPERATOR, SPARTA GRIP: I worked a couple of seasons on a TV show with Dave. He was professional. I didn't see anything with him that seemed dangerous or asking us to do anything dangerous. He pushes schedules, but that's what the assistant director's job is on a movie set. So I don't have a lot to say about Dave. I know that he was, like you say, a professional.

We had some issues on "The Old Way" with Hannah. Just some safety concerns that I had, some unannounced discharges of firearms, the handling of firearms. But I also learned --

WHITFIELD: On the previous set? On the previously production?

BRUMBAUGH: On the previously set. Yes, I wasn't involved -- on "Rust" at all. I can't speculate. In our particular film, "The Old Way," we had some issues that were addressed. And I address issues in my department when problems happen. That's your job as the key for your department. My job on set on the key grip is to be in charge of safety on set. And when I see things, I'm going to say something.

And I also learned that was Hannah's first film. So --

WHITFIELD: So then us understand, you say there were previous discharges. Is it normal for there to be at least one discharge when you're talking about firearms? Or is that something that people are accustomed to? Or does that raise a flag right away, that there should be never a moment of discharges?

BRUMBAUGH: Yes, there's protocols on movie sets. We do this for the safety of everybody. You're working very fast. You've got hundreds of people going around doing different jobs. We have these protocols in place for people's safety. Were those protocols broken? Absolutely. It's not normal for a gun to be on set, to be fired, even in a test firing situation.

Those are announced. People stop working. We announce it, we make sure that everybody is clear of any firearms and make sure that the horses are not going to spook and run off and run people over or people are going to fall off ladders. It's chaos. It's a controlled chaos on a set. And we have these protocols in place.

But once again, I'm not trying to vilify Hannah at all. Things happen on movie sets all the time. We're hearing about this. There's injuries on movie sets all the time because it's a fast-paced -- we work long hours, 16, 18, 20 hour days. It's fast-paced, and these things do happen. Are they common for an armorer to do these mistakes?

No, not for a seasoned veteran. They are one of the most professional departments in the film industry, just like the stunt teams. Stunts are professionals. I'm not saying that every other department is willy-nilly, but those people take their job so seriously because if they mess up, people die.

WHITFIELD: Of course. And when you say things happen, you're really talking about mishaps, but now we're talking about a fatal shooting. That doesn't happen on a regular basis.

[14:45:00]

Real quick, Stu, before I let you go. When we hear the terminology, the place where props are stored, such as guns, in this prop truck, and we understand that investigators say they did seize some 500 rounds of ammunition, generally speaking, who has access to the prop truck, and what are among the things that are in it?

BRUMBAUGH: I don't claim to be an armorer, I don't claim to know their department. But it's always my understanding that the armorer and/or the prop master are the only two people -- within their department, may have access to those safes.

And, look, guns and ammunition, there's a cardinal rule, whether you're working with -- if you're handling real firearms at the gun range or you're handling firearms on a movie set, there's cardinal rules about guns. You check every single gun. You treat every gun as if it were loaded. And that's just rule number

one in anybody that's been around firearms. I've been around guns my entire life, and you learn that immediately. Anybody that's teaching you about firearm safety, that's rule one.

WHITFIELD: Still so very sad. Stu Brumbaugh, thank you so much for being with us and lending us your expertise. Appreciate it, be safe.

BRUMBAUGH: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: We're back in a moment.

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[14:50:55]

WHITFIELD: All right, Facebook has changed its company name to Meta as it shifts its focus to the virtual reality metaverse. But the change comes as they receive scrutiny over hundreds of internal documents leaked by a whistleblower. Here's CNN's Paula Newton.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In a corporate event that seemed to have the vibe of a budget sci-fi flick.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, perfect.

NEWTON: Mark Zuckerberg, founder and head of all things Facebook introduced the metaverse.

MARK ZUCKERBERG, CEO, FACEBOOK: Together, we can finally put people at the center of our technology and deliver an experience where we are present with each other.

NEWTON: What is it? Put simply, an immersive way to connect online for both business and pleasure using virtual and augmented reality. And Zuckerberg is all in, rebranding Facebook's corporate name to Meta. It's from the Greek word "beyond," he says.

ZUCKERBERG: Your devices won't be the focal point of your attention anymore.

NEWTON: If Meta is the future, in the present, the Facebook brand on the site and the app won't change. What Zuckerberg is trying to pull off is more profound of that.

SHEERA FRENKEL, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": He is trying to take control of what he thinks is the big next wave of technology, and the question is going to be whether the world accepts that, whether people in spite of all the controversy, in spite of all of the crises that have hit Facebook in the last month, are going to want to put their trust in Facebook.

NEWTON: Despite accusations of a toxic business model and dangerous fallout to match, Zuckerberg's strategy of plowing ahead with ambitious market domination has worked.

ZUCKERBERG: Our mission remains the same.

NEWTON: And in rebranding, Zuckerberg has nothing substantive to say how Facebook can become a safer social media space, especially for teenagers and young people.

ZUCKERBERG: I know that some people will say this isn't a time to focus on the future. And I want to acknowledge that there are important issues to work on in the present. There always will be.

NEWTON: In recent months, former Facebook employees have provided evidence that Facebook was aware of its role in disseminating the misinformation that breeds and spreads on its social media platforms. In a statement, Zuckerberg said the documents released were cherrypicked to present a misleading narrative about the company. Frances Haugen says she fears the same problems will occur in Facebook's new metaverse.

FRANCES HAUGEN, FORMER FACEBOOK PROJECT MANAGER: I was shocked to hear recently that Facebook wants to double down on the metaverse, and that they're going to hire 10,000 engineers in Europe to work on the metaverse. I think there is a view inside the company that safety is a cost, a cost center, it's not a growth center, which I think is very short term in thinking.

NEWTON: What is not short term, the insidious effects of Facebook's social media platforms worldwide. Regulators have so far failed to create and enforce laws that prevent the worst abuses online, those powered by algorithms and A.I., that can efficiently disperse misinformation and hate. To that, Zuckerberg has added a new challenge, the potentially even more invasive metaverse.

Paula Newton, CNN.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

WHITFIELD: An illness ended one fighter pilot's career, but it didn't stop her from helping others. Here's today's "The Human Factor."

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

COL. NICOLE MALACHOWSKI, U.S. AIR FORCE (RET): My name is Nicole Malachowski. I spent 21 years in the United States Air Force as an officer and a fighter pilot. I was selected to be the first woman fighter pilot in 2005. I got bit by a tick, and overnight I went from being this very healthy high performing fighter pilot to someone who was completely broken.

I found myself bedridden 22 to 23 hours a day. For nine months I struggled to walk, talk, read, and write. They diagnosed me with late stage neurological tick borne illness. So I was medically retired from the military, and I remember thinking to myself, what am I going to do?

I had an opportunity as an outgoing full bird colonel to make things better for airmen who are dealing with complex and chronic illness.

[14:55:04]

Guess who took the stage? This gal.

I could still lead people in a different way as a professional speaker and now to give voice to the voiceless as a patient advocate. I also serve on the Congressionally direct medical research program, tick borne diseases research panel.

We currently don't understand what the scientific mechanism is for why we stay sick. Twenty percent of people who get Lyme Disease never fully recover, and I am one of those people. I need to represent them with the honor and the dignity and the respect that they deserve.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

WHITFIELD: Incredible.

Thanks so much for joining me today. I am Fredricka Whitfield. The CNN NEWSROOM continues with Jim Acosta in just a moment.

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