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Election Day Tomorrow; Joe Manchin Not Yet in Support of Social Infrastructure Bill. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired November 01, 2021 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:22]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Welcome to NEWSROOM. I'm Alisyn Camerota.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: I'm Victor Blackwell.

Any moment now, Senator Joe Manchin, a crucial player in the negotiations over President Biden's agenda, will hold a press conference to provide what he calls clarity on where he stands on the framework for the massive spending bill.

This is a pivotal moment. This really could make or break these pieces of legislation.

CAMEROTA: Here's the podium. So you know it's real.

BLACKWELL: It's going to happen.

CAMEROTA: It's going to happen.

Progressives now signaling they will likely support both the bipartisan infrastructure bill and the massive social safety net bill. House Democrats are pushing to hold votes on both of those this week.

CNN's Manu Raju is standing by for us on Capitol Hill.

So, Manu, the president was hoping to tout this deal, as you know, on his foreign trip. What do we know about what Manchin is going to say and where he stands?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, he has not been clear about where he stands.

Remember, this has been negotiated for months between the White House, Joe Manchin. They have cut down the price tag significantly to try to meet his demands. But even after they released details of the $1.75 trillion plan late last week, he did not say where he comes down. He would only say that his good-faith negotiations. He would not get into the details.

Now, he did indicate to me late last week that he is supportive, potentially, of that price tag. But the program-by-program details are important. And he has not weighed in on that.

One of those issues is the expansion of Medicare. That is something that he has been concerned about for months to expand it to include dental vision, and hearing. This proposal would just include it to have hearing. And we're hearing right now that he's actually about to walk in any moment here, and will lay out his concerns.

But, earlier today, I asked him about all of this. He said that we're going to give clarity, I'm going to give clarity. He says: "I think I will clear up a lot of things sometime today. I think there needs to be clarity on where everybody stands.

So, the senator is about ready to come in here. He has not come in yet. But we do expect it -- he is standing right there. Once he comes in here, we will hopefully get a better sense of him and where he stands, guys.

BLACKWELL: We are watching with you, Manu, on the right side of the screen.

CAMEROTA: The suspense is killing us.

BLACKWELL: Yes, it's probably futile to go on and talk about Senator Sinema.

So let's stay right now to talk about Senator Manchin because we know that he put out that statement at the end of last week that said things look good. But that isn't a yes. I wonder, do you book the Senate press room if you're not at yes?

RAJU: It would be surprising to hear him come out and say that explicitly, because he has had concerns about a number of the provisions here.

And he has had concerns about some of the things that ultimately are in here. So to say that he wants to come out and detail what he calls clarity on his position would suggest perhaps concerns, things that potentially he wants to change.

And what we do know is that here's the senator right now.

BLACKWELL: All right, let's listen in.

SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): Let's wait. do you have more want to come in? Any more out in the hallway, Lance?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All good, sir.

MANCHIN: OK.

First of all, I want you to thank you all for coming.

And I have heard a lot of the mischaracterizations of my position since the president met with the House Democrats last Thursday. And I would like to make an attempt to clear up any confusion about where I stand on the legislation that is working its way through Congress. In all of my years of public service -- and I have been around for a

long time -- I have never seen anything like this. The president of the United States has addressed the House Democratic Caucus twice recently to urge action on the bipartisan infrastructure bill, which sometimes we refer to as the BIF bill.

Last week, the speaker urged, Speaker Pelosi urged the importance of voting and passing the BIF bill before the president took the world stage overseas, and still no action. In my view, this is not how the United States Congress should operate, or, in my view, has operated in the past. The political games have to stop.

Twice now, the House has balked at the opportunity to send the BIF legislation to the president. As you have heard, there are some House Democrats who say they can't support this infrastructure package until they get my commitment on the reconciliation legislation.

It is time to vote on the BIF bill up or down, and then go home and explain to your constituents the decision you made. And I have always said, if I can't go home and explain it, I can't vote for it, and, if I can, I will.

I have worked in good faith for three months, for the past three months, with President Biden, Leader Schumer, Speaker Pelosi and my colleagues on the reconciliation bill. And I will continue to do so.

[14:05:02]

For the sake of the country, I urge the House to vote and pass the bipartisan infrastructure bill. Holding this bill hostage is not going to work in getting my support for the reconciliation bill.

Throughout the last three months, I have been straightforward about my concerns that I will not support a reconciliation package that expands social programs and irresponsibly adds to our $29 trillion in national debt that no one seems to really care about or even talk about, nor will I support a package that risks hurting American families suffering from historic inflation.

Simply put, I will not support a bill that is this consequential without thoroughly understanding the impact it will have on our national debt, our economy and most importantly all of our American people.

Every elected representative needs to know what they are voting for and the impact it has, not only on their constituents, but the entire country. That is why we must allow time for complete transparency and analysis on the impact of changes to our tax code and energy and climate policies to ensure that our country is well-positioned to remain the superpower of the world, while we inspire the rest of the world towards a cleaner environment.

And this all can be done. I, for one, won't support a multitrillion- dollar bill without greater clarity about why Congress chooses to ignore this serious effects of inflation and debt that have on our economy and existing government programs. For example, how can I in good conscience vote for a bill that

proposes massive expansion of social programs, when vital programs like Social Security and Medicare face insolvency and benefits could start being reduced as soon as 2026 in Medicare and 2033 in Social Security?

How does that make sense? I don't think it does. Meanwhile, elected leaders continue to ignore exploding inflation, that our national debt continues to grow, and interest payments on the debt will start to rapidly increase when the Fed has to start raising interest rates to try to slow down this runaway inflation.

With the factors in mind, and all of these factors that we have spoken about, I have worked in good faith for months with all of my colleagues to find a middle ground on a fiscally -- and I report -- I repeat that -- a fiscally responsible piece of legislation that fixes the flaws of the 2017 Trump tax bill that I thought was weighted far, far too far for the high-end earners, and the needs of American families and children.

However, as more of the real details outline, the basic framework are released, what I see are shell games, budget gimmicks that make the real cost of the so-called $1.75 trillion bill estimated to be almost twice that amount if the full time is run out, if you extended it permanently. And that, we haven't even spoken about.

This is a recipe for economic crisis. None of us should ever misrepresent to the American people what the real cost of legislation is. While I have worked hard to find a path to compromise, it is obvious compromise is not good enough for a lot of my colleagues in Congress.

It is all or nothing. And their position doesn't seem to change unless we agree to everything. Enough is enough. It's time our elected leaders in Washington, all of us, stop playing games with the needs of the American people and holding a critical infrastructure bill hostage, while there is opportunity in the reconciliation bill that we can all agree on.

And we have been talking about this for months. Again, to be clear, I will not support the reconciliation legislation without knowing how the bill will impact our debt and our economy and our country. And we won't know that until we work through the text.

For the sake of our country, I again -- and I'm urging all of my colleagues in the House to vote and pass the bipartisan infrastructure bill. It is bipartisan, 69 votes. We worked on that for many, many months.

As I have said before, holding that bill hostage is not going to work to get my support of what you want. It is what we should all agree on and work through the process. I'm open to supporting a final bill that helps move our country forward. But I'm equally open to voting against a bill that hurts our country.

And I have been very clear about that also. And, most importantly, it hurts every American. Let's work together. And I mean that. Let's all work together on getting a sensible reconciliation package, a package that really strengthens our nation and makes us better and leads the world.

Thank you all.

(CROSSTALK)

MANCHIN: Let me just say -- let me say -- let me just say -- let me say -- let me say one thing.

I'm not going to negotiate in public on this, because I have been dealing in good faith. And I will continue to deal in good faith with all of my colleagues on both sides. It is time to pass the bill and quit playing games.

[14:10:06]

All right, that is Senator Manchin, of course, one of the crucial votes for the president's agenda.

Let's bring in now CNN senior -- CNN anchor Wolf Blitzer, CNN's chief political analyst, Gloria Borger, and CNN White House correspondent John Harwood.

Wolf, what we just heard, I mean, how do you reconcile that from Senator Manchin with the narrative we have heard that they're just inches away? He still has plenty of questions and wants those answers before he gives his support.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: They're not inches away. They're a long, long way away from a deal on the bigger package. He says vote on the bipartisan infrastructure package, get that out of the way.

But, as you know, there are a lot of progressive Democrats in the House of Representatives who say they're not going to vote for that bipartisan infrastructure package unless, at the same time, they can vote ahead on the so-called reconciliation package, the $1.75 trillion package that deals with all sorts of social issues and climate change, and other important issues.

And for all practical purposes, what Manchin just said, there is no deal. And unless the progressive Democrats decide to change their position, there's not going to be the bipartisan infrastructure package.

Pramila Jayapal, who's the chair of the Progressive Caucus in the House of Representatives, has made it abundantly clear that of the 90 or so members of the Progressive Caucus, at least half will vote against it. And unless there are a lot of Republican members of the House of Representatives who are willing to vote for the bipartisan infrastructure package, it's unlikely to go ahead.

It's unlikely to be passed. And Nancy Pelosi, the speaker, has repeatedly said she's not going to bring any bill up for a vote unless she's guaranteed that the bill she wants will pass. That bipartisan infrastructure package, even though it got 69 votes in the Senate, including 19 Republican senators, as well as the Senate minority leader, Mitch McConnell, that is unlikely to pass if the progressives hold firmly against it.

So this is a major, major setback for the White House, a major setback in this effort to get this legislation passed, both pieces of legislation. And it's interesting, Victor, that it's coming as the president of the United States is here in Scotland, where I am, and he's trying to deal with the international community, the world leadership on this critically important issue of climate change.

And this is clearly a setback for President Biden right now to hear that Senator Manchin says no deal.

CAMEROTA: Yes, this is not the news that he was hoping to have on his trip there.

Manu, you have just been scrambled back in a position for us. You have been following this minute by minute, all of these developments. We have relied on you for the past however many weeks. Was this a surprise what Manchin came out and just did.

RAJU: In short, no, because he had been raising these concerns. I mean, we had been reporting about the growth in the social programs had been a concern of his, even after they released this $1.75 trillion framework.

One of those concerns, I'm told, is the growth of Medicare. That would include hearing under this proposal, include hearing coverage. That is a no-go for Manchin, I'm told, by a source with knowledge of the matter. He's also, of course, raised concerns about a number of other issues in the bill, other expansion, the amount of money being put in here.

But the litany of concerns he laid out here is a real issue for the White House and Democratic leaders to sort out, because he wants time. He wants to be able to look through this and vet this massive proposal.

Understand the -- excuse me -- the impact this would have on the economy, get a full accounting of how much this will cost. He doesn't even believe this will cost only $1.75 trillion, just saying moments ago budget gimmicks mean this will be a whole lot worse. He has serious concerns about what this could mean for inflation.

He's been raising those concerns for months, and, very importantly, saying here that, no matter what the progressives in the House do, that is not going to affect how he views this separate bill. He's saying, if you hold up that infrastructure bill in the House to try to get me to support this larger bill, that is not going to affect me in getting behind the larger bill, all of which raises some serious questions about how this ultimately will turn out and increases the likelihood that this is going to take a lot more time.

It's going to require a lot more changes to win over Joe Manchin and a significant uncertainty about whether they're ever able to get there and whether the progressives now in turn will say, OK, no deal with you, that means we're going to sync the infrastructure bill that you agreed on.

BLACKWELL: Wow. The phrase shell games and budget gimmicks, we heard there from the senator.

Gloria, let me come to you next, because what we have heard was that there was the hope that there could be votes some time this week. I mean, does the senator's news conference here just take that clean off the table?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, sort of does.

I would I would wonder whether there could be any way of convincing progressives that you ought to vote on that infrastructure package and get it done. I mean, if I were Terry McAuliffe sitting out there in Virginia, I'd be pretty upset about this because if he had had the infrastructure package, he would probably argue his life would have been a lot easier these last few weeks.

[14:15:14]

But I want to pick up on what you what you were saying earlier about the language that Joe Manchin is using here, shell games, a recipe for economic crisis. None of us should misrepresent what the real cost of a bill is.

I mean, when you look at what he's saying, he's saying, you guys are trying to pull a fast one over on me. You want to put back in all this spending for Medicare. You think I'm going to buy that? You think I don't see these shell games? I'm not going to go along with that.

And I could sense his frustration and anger. Now, there will be the same frustration and anger on the other side. Probably, across the ocean, there will be some frustration and anger as well from the folks in the administration.

But the lack of trust -- and we have been talking about this an awful lot over these last weeks -- continues. And it seems to me that it's about to explode here, because Manchin is effectively walking away from reconciliation, from this big package for right now and into the foreseeable future.

CAMEROTA: John Harwood, I mean, some of the things that Senator Manchin brought up there, he sort of framed as mysteries. I'm not going to do anything until we can all figure out what the impact on this is going to be and we know what the economic consequences are going to be on inflation.

Who's going to tell him? How long will it take to know those things?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, one of the things they're going to wait for is a score from the Congressional Budget Office about what the true cost of the bill actually is. That is often influential. I think it is not clear and not clear in the White House exactly what

Joe Manchin was doing, because consider a couple of things. First of all, the White House was -- and Democratic leaders in the House were comfortable enough over the weekend with silence, public silence from Sinema and Manchin, that they were going to move ahead with both the infrastructure bill and the reconciliation bill.

And they thought they could pass both those bills. If they passed the infrastructure bill, that takes that concern that Joe Manchin was venting off the table. Secondly, getting the process started in the House only kicks off a much slower process in the Senate. The White House was looking at a timetable that would end around Thanksgiving with passage of the reconciliation bill.

That presumably would be plenty of time for Joe Manchin's questions to be answered. So if you saw what Manchin is doing, is venting about pressure that he was getting from progressives and being annoyed that they hadn't passed the infrastructure bill, that could still be consistent with the scenario where he is going to support the package that was -- the framework that was allowed.

He, in addition to that, was pushing back on some of the things that people are at the last minute trying to negotiate into that framework. Remember, they announced the framework late last week, and then over the weekend, there was a big push to try to get prescription drug provisions inserted back in the bill.

So the tone was bad, for sure. And it may -- if what Joe Manchin meant to do was say you can't press your knee and vent about the bipartisan infrastructure bill, what he, in fact, is doing may be undercutting the confidence that the progressives needed to move ahead with both bills this week, which might have taken care of his issue with the infrastructure bill.

BLACKWELL: Wolf, I want to talk about timing, because you're traveling with the president in Scotland.

Just a few hours ago, President Biden reaffirmed America's commitment to fighting the climate crisis. He wanted to go there with the passage of this massive climate spending. He did not get that. And while he is at this conference, you get this from Senator Manchin showing just how far apart they are still in passing that climate legislation.

Your view of the significance of this moment, while the president is there for Senator Manchin to just reaffirm just how far the president is from getting that legislation potentially.

BLITZER: Yes, it's very awkward indeed, Victor, for the president of the United States.

Remember, yesterday, before he left Rome and the G20 summit over there, he had a news conference in which he was very upbeat at predicting passage of both, both pieces of this legislation, the infrastructure bill, the reconciliation bill. He was pretty optimistic. And he sort of went after the journalists, saying, oh, you guys have

been saying it's not going to happen, not going to happen. Well, it's going to happen. And he was suggesting it could happen this week. And earlier, the White House was suggesting the votes for both could come up as early as Tuesday.

Well, clearly, that's not going to happen. And to our viewers, we have to remember, Manchin is a powerful, powerful senator. Indeed, every senator is pretty powerful right now, because there are 50 Democrats in the Senate and 50 Republicans in the Senate

[14:20:07]

If Manchin votes against the reconciliation package, all the Republicans will vote against it. The vote would be 51-49. If Senator Sinema also votes against it, it would be 52-48. They would lose that piece of -- that legislation in the Senate.

So it's -- he's critically important right now. He knows that. He's trying to use his influence to get the bipartisan infrastructure package passed.

But I don't know if the progressives are going to go along with it. I assumed the White House would be pleased if at least they could get the infrastructure package passed, the one that passed the Senate by -- with 69 votes. They would be pleased that that infrastructure package would be historic.

It's been about 30 years since a massive infrastructure package passed the U.S. Senate, the U.S. House of Representatives, and was signed into law by a president of the United States. So they would be pleased to get that.

And, as Gloria said, Terry McAuliffe in Virginia would have been thrilled if that piece of legislation would have been passed a few weeks ago. It would have helped him dramatically going into the election there tomorrow.

So this is all very, very complex. But, right now, I'm sure there's deep disappointment among White House officials that Manchin has come out and said what he said.

CAMEROTA: Yes. And we have Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal coming up to talk to about how she feels about what Manchin just said.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Gloria, does this suggest that President Biden misread Manchin? I mean, he's had so many meetings, as we understand it, with Manchin and Sinema. And it sounds like President Biden thought that everybody was on the same page.

BORGER: Yes, it's hard to -- really, at this point, it's kind of hard to know.

I think what I'm hearing from Manchin -- and Manu can speak to this probably better than anyone -- is that he thought maybe he had some kind of a framework. And then he saw Democrats trying to add stuff back in.

Like, there was some talk of adding in some more Medicare stuff that Bernie Sanders wanted, or maybe some way to work around a smaller family and medical leave package or whatever. And I think you -- in his statement, he's like, you're not going to -- you can't do that to me, because I don't think it's good for the country. I don't think we can pay for it. And that's not what I signed on to.

So I'm wondering what the so-called framework that he thought perhaps that he agreed with is now something that he believes has become kind of a moving target and shouldn't have been.

So I think that we have to sort of figure that out.

BLACKWELL: All right. We, of course, will follow the fast-moving developments here.

As Alisyn said, we have got head of the Progressive Caucus Pramila Jayapal on the show. So we will get her reaction to what we have heard from Senator Manchin.

Gloria Borger, Wolf Blitzer, John Harwood, and Manu Raju, thank you all.

CAMEROTA: OK, as we have been mentioning, it is election eve in America, with candidates making their final pitches to voters nationwide.

So we are live from the campaign trail with how it's going next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:27:30]

BLACKWELL: Tomorrow is Election Day.

And voters in New York City will pick a new mayor. And the voters in New Jersey will cast their ballots for governor. And, in Minneapolis, the future of policing is on the ballot.

CAMEROTA: And, in Virginia, a state that Biden won by 10 points, gubernatorial candidates Democrat Terry McAuliffe and Republican Glenn Youngkin are neck and neck.

CNN's Dan Merica is covering this for us.

So, Dan, what's their closing message?

DAN MERICA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: You know, it's been interesting.

They both closed the campaigns the way that they opened them. You have had Youngkin focus laser-like on local issues, education, taxes, crime, and McAuliffe has really been trying to tie Youngkin to Trump. That is obviously because of the fact that Trump lost this state by 10 points, as you note.

There have been federal headwinds in this race, however. I mean, Manchin's news just now impacts this race in a way. McAuliffe had been hoping that Congress would pass something for him to run on over the last month. They have obviously not done that. And that certainly has been a frustration for Democrats here in Virginia.

Even still, McAuliffe has continued to nationalize this race. He's talked about this ties to the Biden administration. And he has, as I said, compared to dunk into Trump almost at every turn.

Take a listen to what he said yesterday, tying Youngkin to the former president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FMR. GOV. TERRY MCAULIFFE (D-VA): Trump wants to win here so he can announce for president for 2024. That's the stakes of this election. He's trying to get himself off the mat.

He wants to win here Tuesday. And, Wednesday, Donald Trump announces he's running in 2024. Are we going to allow that to go on here?

AUDIENCE: No!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MERICA: Obviously, McAuliffe hopes that's a message that resonates with Democrats, who rejected Trump in 2020. Of course, Donald Trump is not planning on announcing a 2024 run on Wednesday.

But what's been interesting is that Youngkin, who has avoided tying himself to Trump and has kept him at arm's length, he has also begun to nationalize this race in a way, acknowledging, as he's gotten closer, that this could have reverberating factors across the nation.

Take a listen to what he said today here in Richmond.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GLENN YOUNGKIN (R), VIRGINIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: The entire nation is watching this. Why? Why? There's only two statewide elections this year, New Jersey and Virginia, and all eyes are on Virginia. The nation needs us to vote for them too.

It needs us to vote for them too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MERICA: It's been over a decade since a Republican has won statewide here in the Commonwealth of Virginia.

You have seen, as he's gotten closer, as polls have tightened, Youngkin has talked up and his and his supporters have gotten excited about the fact that they're in this race. And that's why I think he is nationalizing this contest, trying to make this about more than just the Commonwealth of Virginia.

Now, McAuliffe will be behind me at this brewery stumping here in Richmond.