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Prosecution Showing Videos of Scene in Rittenhouse Homicide Trial; Trump's Lawyers Defend His Claim of Executive Privilege; WAPO: Trump Campaign Funds Used to Help Finance Giuliani, Other Trump Allies Trying to Overturn Election; Scottie Pippen Blasts Michael Jordan Over "The Last Dance"; Atlanta Braves Win First Championship Since 1995. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired November 03, 2021 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Welcome back.

In Kenosha, Wisconsin, day three of the Kyle Rittenhouse homicide trial is underway. He is the Illinois teenager who shot and killed two people and wounded another during a protest over a police shooting last summer.

Now, today, prosecutors are turning to video of the chaotic scene to counter Rittenhouse's claims of self-defense.

Let's view this through the eyes of a criminal defense attorney. CNN legal analyst, Joey Jackson, joins us now to break it down.

Joey, prosecutors are showing jurors video of the protests and they are hearing the gunshots that killed Joseph Rosenbaum, the first person who was killed.

How powerful of a tool is that in front of a jury?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Ana, good to be with you.

It's very powerful but it can be interpreted different ways. So understanding, from the prosecutor's perspective, you have a lot happening.

Remember, just to set the backdrop to this, Jacob Blake was shot two days earlier, August 23rd, 2020.

And as a result of that, you had a lot of pandemonium. You had massive concerns by the community. That led to these protests, et cetera, were people were coming out.

A jury is about, right, to listen. And they're listening to this testimony. But trials are about taking a jury there.

In taking them there, prosecutors are certainly going to show this videotape. And you can interpret that videotape the way prosecutors want you to,

which is, look, all of this was happening, but he's the only one, the defendant, who shot and killed someone. Why?

And then you have the defense, who is saying, you had all this pandemonium, which led to his belief that he reasonably needed to protect himself and that served as the basis for him otherwise shooting and killing two people, injuring another.

It depends always, Ana, on the interpretation of the video that's being shown.

CABRERA: Now I'm going to ask you about how jurors interpret some of the testimony.

Because it's a social media influencer who had live livestreamed the video jurors. And he's back on the witness stand today and says, "Before the shooting, Rittenhouse appeared nervous and was chain smoking. Rosenbaum seemed erratic," he said.

This came up during cross examination by the defense.

Would you expect those observations to resonate with jurors?

JACKSON: You do, but, again, as we look at the defendant then 17, now 18, it always depends how you interpret it.

From a defense perspective, you'll argue three things. My client was in immediate fear of death, of serious bodily injury.

Number two, the force he used was appropriate and unfortunate based upon the threat. You see it there.

We'll argue, the defense, look at all of the pandemonium, look at the fires, look at the people, how else would he feel? And of course, he acted reasonably.

On the other hand, you have this narrative, which is, he was an active shooter. That is the defendant in this case. He was engaging in this. And as a result, people reacted to him. It's always this battle of narratives.

[13:34:58]

Last point, and that is as to Rosenbaum, the person he shot in the back. You had this influencer that said he was acting erratically. What does that mean?

From the defense perspective, it heightens my client's awareness that he has to protect himself. From a prosecution perspective, is that enough? Because someone is erratic and running way, you shoot them?

It's always the battle of the narratives in a courtroom. Which battle ultimately a jury determines is the proper one depends on a lot more evidence that we'll see unfold in this case.

CABRERA: And you'll be back and we'll discuss further.

Joey Jackson, thank you so much.

JACKSON: Always. Thank you.

CABRERA: Lawyers for former President Trump making another attempt to block certain documents from the committee investigating January 6th. Their arguments and whether it has a chance of stopping the release of these documents just days from now, we'll discuss, next.

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CABRERA: Lawyers for former President Donald Trump aren't backing down from their argument That he can exert executive privilege even after leaving office.

They filed a brief last night in Trump's lawsuit attempting to block congressional investigators from seeing documents related to the January 6th capitol attack.

Joining us now, former deputy assistant attorney general, Harry Littman. He is also a legal affairs columnist for the "Los Angeles Times," and host of the "Talking Feds" podcast.

Harry, great to have you here.

HARRY LITTMAN, LEGAL AFFAIRS COLUMNIST, "LOS ANGELES TIMES" & FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Thanks. Glad to be here.

CABRERA: Here is how Trump lawyers are defending their executive argument in Trump's lawsuit against the January 6th committee and the National Archives.

I quote, "The Biden administration is attempting to waive privilege regarding, among other things, legal documents, drafts of speeches, correspondence, remarks, presidential diaries, schedules and call logs. These are precisely the type of documents that the privilege is meant to protect."

Is that a strong legal argument?

LITTMAN: Well, not ultimately. It's true that some of the documents -- a lot aren't -- but some of the 800 pages would be subject potentially to executive privilege.

But there's two big problems here. First, as you just read, the Biden administration says there's no privilege here.

And while there's some law that says a former president gets to at least weigh in, at the end of the day, if the current president, the one who is sworn to uphold the law, the one who has to weigh and balance the factors, says we don't assert privilege, that has to trump, so to speak. The second point is, even if it were a good executive privilege claim,

the kind of documents, as they say, it has to give way if there's a strong need to know.

We're talking about an insurrection and the worst assault on democratic rule since the Civil War. Pretty strong need to know here.

So his argument goes only so far. And it should be rejected ultimately by the court because of the strong public need to know the information that Trump is attempting to shield.

CABRERA: We're learning more every day. The "Washington Post" is reporting today that Trump campaign funds were used to help finance efforts by Rudy Giuliani and other Trump allies who wanted to overturn the election.

"The Post" said some of that spending included "more than $50,000 for rooms and suites at the posh Willard Hotel in Washington that served as a command center for efforts to deny the presidency for President Trump leading up to the attack on the capitol on January 6th."

People like Steve Bannon, the lawyer, John Eastman, who wrote a couple of memos laying out how Vice President Pence could rebuff Congress' counting of electoral votes on January 6th, they were among those at this quasi-command center, according to this "Washington Post" reporting.

So what impact might that have on Trump's executive privilege claims?

LITTMAN: Here, the claim is even weaker. I think it's fair to call it a non-starter. You have to at least have some presidential decision- making involved, some confidential communications to aid presidential decision-making.

This is a campaign war room. They're up there trying to plot how to overthrow the election. It's got nothing to do with the president's official duties.

Anything having to do with that whole chapter -- and we're learning more and more about those feverish few days when Bannon and Giuliani and everyone were looking for any port in the storm.

None of that should be covered by executive privilege.

And the court, by the way, has a hearing tomorrow on all of this, and I expect will make quick work of that claim.

CABRERA: Real quickly, are you surprised the DOJ hasn't made a decision on whether to prosecute Steve Bannon for contempt of Congress?

LITTMAN: I'm not. I wrote an op-ed explaining that it's a lot more complicated than people might think.

There's a memo on the other side. There's a lot for Garland to work through. And I think it's just not the easy call that everybody assumes. Plus, he's a really methodical guy.

So I'm personally not surprised. Not to say that he won't come in that direction in the relative near future.

CABRERA: Harry Littman, it's good to have you here. I really appreciate your expertise.

LITTMAN: Thank you, Ana.

CABRERA: Thank you.

[13:44:53]

NBA legend, Scottie Pippen, sounding off on his former Bulls teammate, Michael Jordan. Up next.

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CABRERA: A blockbuster sports documentary creating more ripping effects some 18 months after it first aired. NBA legend, Scotty Pippin, is now going off on his former Chicago Bulls teammate, Michael Jordan, and how ESPN's "The Last Dance" portrayed him and those around him.

In an excerpt from his upcoming book, "Unguarded," featured in "G.Q." magazine, Pippin paints Jordan as selfish, controlling, an egomaniac. And says the documentary was too much about Michael Jordan and not enough about the other players that helped Jordan win six titles.

Pippen writes, in part: "Even on the second episode, which focused on my difficult upbringing and unlikely path to the NBA, the narrative returned to M.J. and his determination to win."

"I was nothing more than a prop. His best teammate of all time, he called me. He couldn't have been more condescending if he tried."

"Each episode was the same. Michael on a pedestal. His teammates, secondary, smaller."

"The message no different from when he referred to us back then as his supporting cast. Living through it the first time was insulting enough."

Pippin also claimed that Jordan used "The Last Dance" to try to outshine current NBA superstar, LeBron James.

Joining us now is Tyler Tynes, a staff writer for "G.Q." He interviewed Pippin in June and is set to sit down with him against next week.

Thank you, Tyler, for being with us.

Pippin doesn't hold back here. What's your reaction? TYLER TYNES, SPORTS STAFF WRITER, "G.Q." MAGAZINE: It makes sense,

right? Pippin has been holding on to this type of anxiety for 20, 26 years.

It should be no surprise that Pippin, who had to play secondary to Michael Jordan's greatest, would have such an issue with being labeled a sidekick for so many years, being labeled as minor compared to Michael Jordan.

So it should be no surprise that Scotty has had a little bit of beef with the way Michael has portrayed himself and the rest of the Bulls.

CABRERA: Although I watched "The Last Dance" and, yes, Michael Jordan is the driving character and the prominent -- most prominent voice in that.

But I thought it portrayed Pippin as a vital part of the team and a huge part of Jordan's success as well.

Why do you think he feels so wronged? What's this beef really about?

TYNES: Well, I mean, for starters, Scotty Pippin ain't getting $10 million from ESPN to put him on a documentary. Let's start there.

Second thing is that the way he's being portrayed, between the migraine in game, squabbles with Tony, when Michael's father died, there were small pieces of that document documentary where Scotty felt betrayed.

He felt specifically that only Michael Jordan's story was coming out in the way the Bulls portrayed themselves.

He really wants his side of the story to come out. As someone reading "Unguarded," it's a lot more in the book.

CABRERA: So, is this Pippin trying to rewrite his own story or is he trying to take Jordan down a peg?

TYNES: I think Scotty would say he's trying to bring clarity to the situation. That the Chicago Bulls wouldn't have been the Chicago Bulls without Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippin and Dennis Rodman and the rest of those people that made up the championships.

It's to say that Scotty may have a little beef with Jordan, but not more than what's coming out right now.

CABRERA: The Bulls were my team growing up. I was a kid in their heyday. I'm dating myself here. But I loved Scotty Pippin. I thought he was as great as Michael Jordan as a kid.

So it's so fascinating to me to see the dynamic that is today between these two men and to learn more about the dynamic back then.

I'm curious, as somebody who has already interviewed Pippin and has read the book, what is your top question when you sit down with him next week? TYNES: I think why wait so long. You know what I'm saying? I would

never deny a black athlete the space to say what is on their heart and give context to what they've been feeling for decades or years or even the moment we're living in.

But Scotty Pippin has taken 20-plus years to air his grievances with Michael Jordan. The immediate question is, why now, and what are you trying to get out of this?

CABRERA: Tyler Tynes, it's great talking with you. Thank you for being with us.

TYNES: Appreciate you.

CABRERA: In Atlanta, they are partying like it's 1995. Their Braves just gave the city its first major sports championship in 26 years, winning the World Series six games over the Houston Astros.

Jorge Soler was named most valuable player for belting three homeruns, including a towering three-run blast last night that gave his team the early lead. And the Braves never looked back, blanking the Astros 7-0 and winning the series four games to two.

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FREDDIE FREEMAN, BRAVES FIRST BASEMAN: This team went through everything possible. We hit every pothole, every bump you could hit on a road and we overcame every single one of them. What this team did, we're the best team in baseball and we played like it in the postseason and that's why we're here.

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BRIAN SNITKER, BRAVES MANAGER: Braves country's real. It is a real thing. You can see now all the people that are here that travel here to watch the guys, watch us. They come every night. They help these guys with the emotion, the energy. It's just so -- I'm just so happy for the city of Atlanta.

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CABRERA: A big parade celebrating the win is set for this Friday. Congrats to the Braves, and to my team in Atlanta, who I know will root for them.

That's it for us today. Thank you for being with us. I'll see you back here tomorrow at 1:00 p.m. Eastern. Don't forget to join me on Twitter, @AnaCabrera.

Alisyn and Victor pick up our coverage from here.

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