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Biden Administration Announces Vaccine Mandate to Take Effect January 4th; Nancy Pelosi Adds 4 Weeks Paid Leave to Spending Bill; Democrats Pointing Fingers in Blame Game Over Election Losses; Critical Day in Trump's Effort to Keep January 6 Insurrection Docs Secret. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired November 04, 2021 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

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DAN BIGLEY, CLINICAL DIRECTOR, DENALI FAMILY SERVICES: Oftentimes cause people to disengage from life, but what I've learned is that the more engaged the less disabled.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Bigley and his girlfriend got married and had two kids.

BIGLEY: The bigger my life gets the smaller my disability gets.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: A great line that is. CNN's coverage continues right now.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Good Thursday morning. I'm Erica Hill.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

Just moments ago, right here live on CNN, moderate Democratic Senator Joe Manchin indicating there are still a lot of things to be worked out among Democrats on plans to pass their sweeping social safety net package, making the case that Democrats who currently hold the White House and both chambers of Congress, however, don't have big majorities in any of those chambers and therefore don't have the mandate that many progressives think they do. Have a listen.

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SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): We don't have the numbers that FDR had or that Lyndon Baines Johnson had in order to get some major, major legislation done. We don't have those. So we have to come to a realization what we have and deal in good faith that we can do at least something.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Those latest comments follow House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's shifting strategy announcing that four weeks of paid family and medical leave is going to be added back into the social spending bill. That of course was taken out after there was no compromise reached with Senator Manchin.

Now the shift comes, too, after Pelosi had pledged for months she would only move forward on a spending bill that would pass the Senate. It also comes as CNN has learned that Pelosi said in yesterday's Democratic caucus meeting that a vote on the social spending bill could come as early as today.

SCIUTTO: It may be that she's setting up for putting it at the House bill, but not in the Senate bill, knowing it'll get stripped out there.

But we do begin with breaking news this morning. The Biden administration announced a new start date for its vaccine mandate. Some healthcare workers, federal contractors, as well as businesses with more than 100 employees, now have until January 4th to be fully vaccinated.

So, Erica, that's significant. It's pushing this date out a number of weeks.

HILL: Yes, it really is. Let's get straight to CNN White House correspondent Arlette Saenz who has more of those details.

So, Arlette, break down some of these changes for us.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erica and Jim, President Biden long argued that these employer vaccine requirements are critical not just to curbing the spread of the pandemic, but also to the economic recovery. And just moments ago, the administration outlined what these rules will look like as employers will now have until January 4th to implement these rules.

Now this applies to employers with more than 100 employees, certain healthcare workers and also federal contractors. The rules will require that employees be fully vaccinated. If they are not fully vaccinated, those employees must submit weekly negative COVID tests to their employers and also wear masks in the workplace.

Now that testing option does not apply to the healthcare workers. They must be vaccinated due to the nature of their work and those that they are in contact with. And this will affect about 100 million people across the country. That's 84 million employees of larger businesses and 17 million healthcare workers who are working in facilities that are associated with Medicare and Medicaid.

Now, how exactly will all of this be implemented? Violations of this rule could total -- could go all the way up to $14,000 per violation. And that fine could actually go higher if they find that the violation was willful. Those healthcare facilities, they could lose their payments for Medicare and Medicaid if they do not comply.

Now there will be some set-up inspections to check for compliance at some of these workplaces. And the Department of Labor will also be relying on reporting from employees there. Now, we are waiting to hear what businesses, unions might respond to with this today. There certainly could also be lawsuits coming. But this administration insists that this is going to help the country get out of the pandemic and get closer to economic recovery -- Jim and Erica.

HILL: Arlette Saenz with those new details for us. Arlette, thank you.

Well, we could actually find out in the next couple of hours whether the House will vote on both the social safety net package and the bipartisan infrastructure bill.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Evergreen statement, by the way.

(LAUGHTER)

HILL: Yes. Yes, it is.

SCIUTTO: That said, does see it moving closer. CNN Capitol Hill reporter Melanie Zanona joins us now.

Melanie, as you know, Democrats meeting behind closed doors now. Does it look like this vote will happen today? And I wonder if you could flush out what Pelosi's strategy seems to be here on family leave. Is the idea, put it into the House bill knowing it will get stripped out in the Senate and then come back and be willing to pass one that doesn't include paid family leave?

[09:05:01]

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL CORRESPONDENT: Right, well, color me skeptical that a vote is going to happen today. That is an incredibly ambitious timeline because Democrats were still putting final touches on the bill as of yesterday. And Speaker Nancy Pelosi right now is presenting the updated version or at least sections of it to her members behind closed doors.

But many lawmakers wanted to see the bill and wanted more time to review the final product. They want to see what the CBO or the cost score is going to be. And so easily these votes could slip to at least tomorrow. And it's also important to keep in mind, as you mentioned, Jim, that whatever version of the social safety net bill passes the House is not going to be the final product. And that's because we saw a major shift in strategy yesterday from Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

Initially Democratic leaders said they were not going to put a bill on the floor that they knew could not get the votes in the Senate. But, especially after the Virginia governor's race where Democrats lost, Speaker Nancy Pelosi said, you know, it's time to move on. They can't wait around anymore. So she started adding things like paid family leave, which have the support of progressives and many members here in the House, even though it doesn't have the support of Senator Joe Manchin.

Just take a listen to what he had to say about this just moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Paid family leave.

MANCHIN: OK.

BERMAN: The Democrats in the House are putting it back in the bill.

MANCHIN: Yes.

BERMAN: Does that change your view on it at all?

MANCHIN: John, I don't think it belongs in the bill and I'll tell you why. That's a piece of legislation that really is needed from the standpoint if we do it and do it right.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

ZANONA: So obviously some changes are going to be made. It's going to have to ping-pong back and forth between the Senate and the House. But Speaker Nancy Pelosi is hoping that this will at least jump start the process and not to mention if they can get a vote on infrastructure, it would send that bill straight to President Joe Biden's desk -- Jim, Erica.

SCIUTTO: Notable there, right. So that one may come first. Melanie Zanona, on the Hill, thanks so much.

ZANONA: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Well, one sigh of relief for Democrats, CNN can now project that New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy has been re-elected. Now it was narrow. He narrowly beat his Republican challenger Jack Ciattarelli. But Murphy is the first Democratic governor of New Jersey in more than four decades to win re-election there.

HILL: Murphy was able to declare victory more than 24 hours after the polls closed. At a rally last night, Murphy thanked his family and supporters noting a variety of his administration's accomplishments from his first term in office.

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GOV. PHIL MURPHY (D), NEW JERSEY: I renew my promise to you, whether you voted for me or not, to work every single day of the next four years to keep moving us forward. Forward with renewed optimism to ensure greater opportunities for all 9.3 million who call the Garden State their home.

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SCIUTTO: Well, this morning, President Biden is facing hard questions from within his own party after this week's just dismal election results for Democrats, particularly in Virginia.

CNN's senior data reporter Harry Enten joins us with more.

And, Harry, you know, this has been a consistent downward slide for Biden's approval rating, the exit polls, and other data points there showing approval below 50 percent. How far down, and any chance for recovery?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Yes, I mean, they did show below 50 percent in the state of Virginia that he won by 10 points. And I think there was this whole idea among Democrats, hey, we can play against Donald Trump, and if you look at the exit poll, it actually turns out that both Donald Trump and Joe Biden were underwater on their approval and favorable rating.

In fact, if we pull it up, what we actually see is that Joe Biden's approval rating was above Donald Trump's favorable rating. But here's the thing that's so important. If you look at the voters who dislike both Joe Biden and dislike Donald Trump, how do those voters go? They went overwhelmingly for Glenn Youngkin, which is the basic idea that Joe Biden at this particular one is the one in the White House.

Look at that. A near 30-point margin for Glenn Youngkin among those who had an unfavorable view of Trump and disapproved of Joe Biden. Now I want to bring this out nationally, right, and say, OK, is this just a Virginia problem or is this something that we're seeing in other states with Joe Biden's approval rating dropping? And what we see in a number of state polls even outside the state of Virginia, look at that, Maryland, New Hampshire, New Jersey, all in the northeast, all states that Joe Biden won rather easily.

Look at that, look at his popularity ratings now. 53 percent in Maryland, down 12 points. New Hampshire just 34 percent, down from 53 percent that he won in 2020. New jersey, 43 percent, down from 57 percent, part of the reason I think that race was so close in New Jersey, why Phil Murphy barely pulled it off in a state that Joe Biden won by 16 points.

And more than that, the question is whether or not it will hold until next year. Well, if we look back at Virginia history, right, and we say, OK, the party that wins the governorship, how often do they gain seats in the next midterm since 1977? Look at that, 8 of 11 times. So, yes, it's plausible that Biden's numbers could go up. But the fact that history is against him and against his party after Glenn Youngkin was able to win in Virginia.

HILL: A lot to take in there,

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HILL: Harry Enten, appreciate it as always.

ENTEN: Thank you.

[09:10:02]

HILL: Joining us now, CNN political -- national political reporter Eva McKend and Toluse Olorunnipa, political investigations and enterprise reporter for the "Washington Post."

You know, I want to pick up sort of where we left off just as we look at what is happening with Joe Biden's popularity, whether he sort of misread certain rooms in this case and I'm struck by what we heard from Abigail Spanberger who said nobody elected him to be FDR, they elected him to be normal and stop the chaos.

Toluse, is that message getting through?

TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, POLITICAL INVESTIGATIONS AND ENTERPRISE REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, Joe Biden did campaign essentially as the new FDR for the 21st century. He promised a lot of things. He said he was going to be a transformational president. He even said that he was going to have the most progressive agenda of any president ever elected and he said that he had been in the Senate for 36 years, he'd been in the White House as vice president for eight years, and he could get things done.

Now he has gotten a number of things done. They have passed the American Rescue Plan, but a number of things on his agenda remain to be determined. And that apparent for a lot of voters that when Biden promises that he's going to do things and then bring the country back together and pass this massive agenda, they're seeing chaos, they're seeing, you know, infighting, they're seeing this debate that's going on and on, and extending for months on end without resolution.

And that is not what he campaigned on, as what makes it difficult for Democrats to campaign heading into the midterms.

SCIUTTO: Yes. But, Eva, is that agenda, that legislative agenda what voters really want? Because one of the messages it seemed from the Tuesday evening elections were that folks are focused on inflation, they're focused on -- particularly in Virginia having a voice in their children's education, supply chain issues, crime. I mean, the Build Back Better agenda focuses on other things that, granted individually or popular, but are Democrats you speak with concerned that that legislative agenda is out of tune with where voters are now, particularly independents?

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think Congresswoman Spanberger's interpretation, every member of Congress is sort of taking something different from the results this week. Congresswoman Spanberger's interpretation is that this means that Congress should pull back and introduce, change sort of in an incremental way. But progressives will say, you know, it wasn't President Biden that got himself to the White House by himself.

The progressives that he leaned on a wide variety of coalitions and he did that by making promises that now they are looking to him to deliver on. So I'm not quite sure. You know, this Virginia governor's race we will try to extrapolate as much as we can from it. But I'm not quite sure it necessarily is a rebuke completely of this administration and its policies, because ultimately a lot of people voted for President Biden to get some of these progressive policy priorities over the finish line and they are still looking to him to do that.

HILL: It's been fascinating to watch, you know, in the last 24 hours the shift in strategy from Speaker Pelosi, Toluse, and the fact that she's now adding back in paid family leave. Look, this is widely popular. But adding it back in at the 11th hour, is that going to cause additional headaches?

OLORUNNIPA: Well, it will allow Democrats in the House to go back to their voters and say I voted for paid family leave, they can campaign on it even though people would not have received it. It's very likely to get stripped out if this thing moves over to the Senate. But this bill has been really just circulating in the House for so long with so much angst building that I think Speaker Pelosi decided that it's time to get things moving, put some pressure on the Senate.

At least allow the House to vote and get the legislative process going so that they can feel the muscle memory of passing a bill so that by the time they are able to get some kind of a resolution with the Senate they can quickly pass a bill and begin campaigning on it because time is ticking and it's going to be a very difficult task to change history after losing midterms -- losing early elections in the year after a presidential.

SCIUTTO: Eva, quickly before we go, is it possible that the bipartisan infrastructure bill gets passed into the president's desk before everything is settled with the larger budget bill?

MCKEND: Yes, certainly at this point because this has been so many weeks of tortured negotiations. Progressives do want to see -- progressives say that they trust the president, and so I think at this point they are willing to move forward on the infrastructure bill and have enough assurances about their priorities passing in that other legislation down the road.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Torturous process. It's a good word. Eva McKend, Toluse Olorunnipa, thanks so much to both of you.

In just a few hours, former President Trump's attorneys will argue in court that his actions on January 6th should be kept confidential. Why? We're going to break down whether those claims of executive privilege have any legal basis.

[09:15:03]

HILL: Plus, a jury seated in the murder trial for three men accused of killing Ahmaud Arbery. Only one of those jurors is black.

And later, Dr. Leana Wen joins us to answer your questions about the COVID vaccine for younger children.

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HILL: Minutes from now a federal judge will hear former President Donald Trump's argument that some of his White House documents should be kept secret from that House panel investigating the Capitol insurrection. Trump's legal team is claiming executive privilege arguing that even though he's out of office, he has the ability to keep those documents confidential.

SCIUTTO: Perhaps trying to run out the clock here, too. [09:20:01]

Trump has until November 12th to obtain a court order to stop the National Archives from giving those records to the January 6th committee.

CNN justice correspondent Jessica Schneider has been following this.

So, Jessica, does the former president have a legal argument to protect those records?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. That's all going to be decided possibly today, Jim. It's an issue that has actually never explicitly decided by the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court has ruled that the privilege is extended to ex-presidents, but they haven't weighed in when there's this disagreement between a current and a former president as there is here.

But nevertheless, Trump's legal team is pressing hard to assert that documents from his time in office should remain secret. In their brief this week, they put it this way, "Permitting the expansive request here would harm future presidents and their close aides by allowing invasive congressional fishing expeditions that will certainly chill candid advice and harm the institution of the presidency."

And at the center of the fight here is 700 pages of documents from the White House that Trump wants to block the National Archives from handing over to the January 6th Select Committee. In this list of documents, it includes handwritten notes from his top advisers that relate to the false claims that the election was stolen, also notes about Trump's reaction to the attack on the U.S. Capitol, included White House visitor logs, also call records, including between Trump and then Vice President Mike Pence, and also draft public statements.

Now this trove of information, it also includes parts of files from then Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, someone the committee has been seeking testimony from. Also other key White House officials. Press secretary Kayleigh McEnany, former senior adviser Stephen Miller. And the Biden White House at this point has declined to assert executive privilege over any of these documents, but, of course, the former president sued last month seeking to block them and now this fight will play out in a court hearing today.

And guys, as you mentioned, the deadline for these documents to get handed over, it's looming. Next Friday is the date the Archives needs to hand everything over. That is unless a court in the meantime blocks that handover. So we'll see what happens today. It could happen as quickly as today or maybe very shortly thereafter -- guys.

HILL: We will be watching it very closely. Jessica Schneider, appreciate it, thank you.

Joining us now, Norm Eisen, he was the House Judiciary special counsel in former President Trump's first impeachment trial.

Always good to have you with us. I actually want to pick up right where Jessica left off as we talk about timing. So there's been a lot made of this well-worn playbook that we know former President Trump uses, which is to delay, delay, delay, tie things up in the courts. This judge, Judge Chutkan, has actually moved fairly quickly here that we're at this point today.

A, how quickly do you think we could get a ruling, and B, what could that then say? Does that send a signal if that ruling is followed by an appeal?

NORM EISEN, FORMER HOUSE JUDICIARY COUNSEL IN TRUMP'S FIRST IMPEACHMENT TRIAL: Erica, thanks for having me back on the program. I think we're going to get the ruling quickly because Judge Chutkan is going to want to leave some time for Trump to seek an emergency stay from the appellate court if he loses.

I do believe that he is going to lose. He has the worse of the argument here because while he can assert executive privilege as he's done, the presidency is not a hereditary office that travels when he leaves. Joe Biden is in charge and for that reason he's the final decider. So we'll see a quick decision, I think, and then an appeal -- emergency appeal up to the D.C. Circuit.

HILL: So I know you don't think he's going to win on that executive privilege argument. I'm really curious to get your take on what we also heard, right, from his attorney who claims there is no legislative purpose here, noting that the committee has never explained how the materials will assist in developing legislation to protect the United States or to ensure a peaceful transfer of power. Is that true?

EISEN: Like so much that Trump and his circle including his lawyers say, it's not true. The committee has a legitimate legislative purpose. Among other things they've said that they're looking at the Electoral Count Act, the rules that govern, how the election results are certified on January 6th. There is a host of legitimate purposes here.

Erica, our country was subject to an insurrection on January 6th. The first interruption in the peaceful transfer of power in the history of our country. And if you can't have a legitimate legislative purpose to figure out how to prevent future attacks and assure the peaceful transfer of power what legislative purpose can you have? So that argument is nonsense.

[09:25:04]

HILL: You know, in terms of that executive privilege, going back for a minute, there is a little bit of wiggle room, there's still a little bit of question, even after we heard from the Supreme Court, right, years ago? So I wonder how much of that wiggle room do you think will be argued by the former president's legal team and how well, based on what we've seen already laid out, how well do you think they will do?

EISEN: The -- they won't do well. The only reason that the question that Trump is presenting, can I as an ex-president override the decision of a current president on a matter of important policy, executive privilege, the confidentiality of these documents? The only reason that question hasn't been squarely addressed by the courts is because no prior president has had the chutzpah to make the argument.

This is, as you and Jim noted, the classic Trump playbook of delay, make losing arguments, run out the clock. This -- it makes no sense -- it makes no sense as an argument. So it's just a question of timing.

HILL: A question of timing. We will see how it all plays out. Norm Eisen, always good to have you with us. Thank you.

EISEN: Thank you.

HILL: And a reminder, you can join Jake Tapper for a new CNN Special Report "TRUMPING DEMOCRACY: AN AMERICAN COUP," tomorrow night right here at 9:00 p.m.

ACOSTA: Ahead, a new conspiracy theory raised in the shooting of cinematographer on the set of Alec Baldwin's movie. Why some are now claiming the possibility of sabotage? Is there any basis to it? We'll have a live report next.

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