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Eight Dead, Dozens Hurt After Crowd Rushes Towards Stage At Texas Music Festival; Biden Gets Big Win On Infrastructure After Democrats End Deadlock; Trump Fuels Georgia Probe While Pushing Baseless Election Claims; Interview With Brad Raffensperger (R), Georgia Secretary Of State; Aaron Rodgers Attacks Media After Admitting He Is Unvaccinated. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired November 06, 2021 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Fredricka Whitfield. The CNN NEWSROOM continues with Ryan Nobles right now.

RYAN NOBLES, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Ryan Nobles in Washington. Jim Acosta has the day off.

Breaking news. Tragedy at a music festival in Houston. At least eight people have died many more injured after a crowd rushed toward the stage at an Astroworld Festival last night. Now this video appears to show the moment rapper Travis Scott paused his set on stage as he saw an ambulance approaching.

Houston's fire chief says the surge by festival goers sparked chaos in the crowd of 50,000 people and completely overwhelmed medical personnel. People in the crowd attempted CPR on the injured, according to the witnesses. And loved ones of those who were at the festival still may not have answers. This as Houston officials have set up a hotline to report missing people.

CNN's Rosa Flores is in Houston.

Rosa, what else have you been hearing from the witnesses?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, from the individuals that I've talked to they describe the chaos. They describe how the people who were shorter in the crowd had more trouble breathing. The people that were taller in the crowd were able to gasp air. They describe it as a mob and how for some of them it was their survival instincts that kicked in. That they literally just wanted to get out of there, they wanted air and they wanted water.

I talked to two individuals who actually say that during Travis Scott's performance at multiple intervals, he stopped to say and point to areas of the crowd where people needed medical attention. And these individuals describe that they themselves couldn't breathe. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) NICK JOHNSON, ASTROWORLD CONCERTGOER: It was going on for over two hours. And it just got worse and worse. Everyone is like, you just can't breathe. You just feel like, feel like there's a weight.

ANGEL RODRIGUEZ, ASTROWORLD CONCERTGOER: It was so hard to move your arms and like it was so hard to breathe that I was like, I was pushing whoever in front of me just like to breathe. Just to breathe.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

FLORES: Now authorities say that about 9:15 was when that large group, that crowd started compressing towards the stage. By 9:38 p.m. authorities say that this became a mass casualty event. One of the officers that was on the scene described multiple people on the ground needing medical care.

And of course, there was medics there. Police was there. But authorities say that both medics and the police, they were overwhelmed because of what was going on around them. By the end of the night, about 300 people were treated at a field hospital, 23 were transported to hospitals.

Now we've learned from Texas Children's Hospital that that includes more than one child. Eight individuals have died, according to authorities. But authorities warned that that number could increase because there were multiple people who were transported to the hospital in serious condition. And so they're monitoring that.

We're expecting a press conference to start here at any moment, so we're hoping to get more details. But, Ryan, all of this is still under investigation. Police today, we're told, were sifting through video, reviewing video, trying to find clues about exactly what happened here -- Ryan.

NOBLES: OK, Rosa Flores live in Houston. Rosa, thank you for that report.

Let's talk more about this now. Joining us is Madeline Eskins. She is an ICU nurse who attended last night's concert.

Madeline, you were in that crowd of about 50,000 people and you even ended up passing out because people were pushing up against you so much that you couldn't breathe. First just give us an idea of how you're feeling right now and describe that experience before you passed out.

MADELINE ESKINS, ATTENDED ASTROWORLD FESTIVAL: I was very anxious. I could feel, you know, myself losing the ability to breathe. It was really hard with the amount of people around me. I remember feeling, right before I passed out, I tried to turn my head to tell my boyfriend -- I couldn't turn my head, but I tried to tell him to -- I really was going to have him tell my son that I loved him because I honestly did not think I was going to make it out of there. I'm not trying to be dramatic. I straight up thought I was going to die.

NOBLES: Well, I don't think that's being dramatic because there were people that lost their life that night as I'm sure you know. You are an ICU nurse. You deal with tragedy and probably emergency situations like this on a regular basis. When you regained consciousness, what did you do next, and what was happening around you?

ESKINS: I woke up, and I remember I woke up in an unfamiliar area. I think I was put in the VIP section behind general admission. I woke up with a water bottle in my lap and I looked around and I watched. They were dropping people off, going back to get more people out of the crowd. I noticed one younger guy looked real bad, eyes rolled back in his head.

[15:05:05]

And I stopped the security guy who was about to put him down, I said, have you checked the pulse? He said, no, I don't know how, can you help me? I said, yes, I'm an ICU nurse, let me take a look really quick. Did not feel a pulse. I said, hey, don't put him down, you need to go take him to a medical tent. I said get him out of here. Another security guard overheard me, I said I was an ICU nurse, and he said, hey, can you come help us?

NOBLES: So for the volume of people that were there, in your expertise, as someone who works in the medical field, do you feel that there were enough medical resources available?

ESKINS: Not even a little bit. When I followed the security guard that said can you come help me after he heard I was a nurse, I followed him, and I mean, the situation I saw was absolutely traumatic. I mean, as someone who watches people, you know, I deal with CPR on weekly basis. Like this was absolutely insane. I walked up and there's three people in four, maybe four or five medical people doing compressions, doing CPR on people and I was -- my mind was blown.

I said, when was the last pulse check? I immediately jumped in and tried to help. For the situation that we had going on, with more people getting pulled over that were unresponsive, unconscious, we had one AED, which is the pads that go on your chest that shock a heart back into normal rhythm, there was only one. There was one bag that this mask you put over your face, and you squeeze the air, you know, breathes for them. There was one of those.

There was one stretcher. And we had -- when I walked up, there were three people, probably four or five by the end of it in cardiac arrest in front of me.

NOBLES: I think there's a lot of us that obviously weren't there that night wondering how something like this even happens. You've been to events like this before. Do you have any idea what led to this chaos? Why did the crowd begin to surge? What started all of this?

ESKINS: People just rushing the stage to see Travis. I've been to the past two actual festivals. I've been to rap concerts. I've been to Scott's concerts. You know, it happens. People rush the stage. No big deal. I mean, it's uncomfortable, yes. Some people do get hurt, but this was way overcrowded. I've never seen anything like it. I've never felt like I was going to die. I mean, it was absurd. And there was so little resources. I mean, the medics that were trying

to help didn't look like a lot of them had been properly trained. That's not to take away from what they were doing. They were still trying their best. They weren't given the proper resources. Some of them weren't given the proper training. They had no idea what they were getting into, I'm sure.

NOBLES: Do you think it was -- so it was a combination of something that would normally happen at a concert, people trying to get closer to the stage, they're excited to see one of their artists, and then people were panicking because they just weren't familiar with a situation like that?

ESKINS: I think it was really mostly overcrowded. I know that there's some rumors going around from TMZ that there was someone running around injecting people with drugs. I really don't know how big of a part drugs played into this.

I was completely sober and I very easily could have died. If my boyfriend would not have gotten me out of the crowd and my unconscious body, the crowd surfed my unconscious body out of the crowd, I would have died. I feel like I would have died.

NOBLES: All right. And to be clear, CNN not confirming that report from TMZ, but Madeline Eskins, you -- we appreciate you so much recounting this awful experience, the combination of your experience and your medical expertise were so valuable in helping us tell this story. We're so happy that you're safe, and thank you so much again for joining us today.

ESKINS: Of course.

NOBLES: Still to come, a major victory for President Biden. After months of painstaking negotiations, Democrats end their deadlock and passed a historic infrastructure bill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Finally, infrastructure week.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:13:18]

NOBLES: One down, two to go. President Biden is celebrating a big win this weekend after the House finally passed his trillion-dollar bipartisan infrastructure bill late last night. Biden has been pushing for this since the early days of his presidency. But the other half of this economic agenda, a heft social spending bill, still needs to get done.

CNN White House correspondent Arlette Saenz joins me now. Arlette, this is a big deal for Biden. It might be lost in all the

back-and-forth as to what's happened on Capitol Hill over the past couple of months, but tell us what the president is saying about this victory.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ryan, President Biden took a victory lap today on that bipartisan infrastructure plan. And as you know well, this involved intense negotiations for months between Republicans and Democrats, and even within the Democratic Party itself. Here is how President Biden summed up that process when he spoke to reporters here at the White House today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Well, I think the one message that came across was get something done. It's time to get something done. Stop the -- you all, stop talking. Get something done. And so I think, again, that's what the American people are looking for. And I think it's a legitimate and when you ask how we're able to bring things together.

(LAUGHTER)

BIDEN: Well, you know.

(LAUGHTER)

BIDEN: Look, all kidding aside, I have -- I believe everybody in the process is entitled to be treated with respect. You can't have all you want. It's a process. There's no one piece of legislation that's going to solve everybody's problems.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

[15:15:02]

SAENZ: Now once the president signs this bill into law, it certainly will be a historic investment in the country's infrastructure, with the president calling it a blue-collar blueprint for America that will help create jobs. There's about $550 billion in investments over five years dedicated to roads, rails, bridges, those traditional forms of infrastructure. There's also another $65 billion devoted to expanding access to broadband.

Tens of billions of dollars going towards the electric grid and clean water systems, and also investments for electric charging stations across the country for people's vehicles. But while the White House is taking this victory lap right now, there certainly is more work ahead as they're trying to get that $1.9 trillion social safety net package passed in the coming weeks -- Ryan.

NOBLES: Arlette, you can tell the president breathing somewhat of a sigh of relief today that he's finally got something accomplished.

Arlette, thank you so much for that report.

All right, let's talk more about this now. Joining me now CNN senior political analyst and former adviser to four presidents, David Gergen, and CNN political analyst and Washington bureau chief and the White House correspondent for "TheGrio," April Ryan.

So, April, let's talk to you first. One senior progressive, Congressman Mark Pocan of Wisconsin, who is often very colorful, described yesterday as what he said was a cluster beep. I'm not going to say the word. But I think you know where I'm going. There were times, and I'm a congressional correspondent, so I'm up there every day, it looked like a circular firing squad on Capitol Hill over the past couple of weeks with these Democrats.

But I had a lot of Democrats tell me privately, you know, once we get this passed, the sausage making of Congress, everyone is going to forget about. They're going to care a lot more about actually us delivering on these results.

April, does it matter that this was a messy process to get to this point?

APRIL RYAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: At the end of the day, it's a messy people but people want results. People are looking for that win. And they had not seen it. So this is a win. But what has to happen after this win, it has to be tangible. After this win, it has to go into the pockets. It has to go, the broadband has to go into the buildings. There has to be those housing issues. What is it? The president is looking at revitalizing public housing.

There's so many different pieces to this. HBCUs, people want to see something tangible. They don't want to see this pie in the sky. They want to feel it. So the sausage making was ugly, but let's see how this win trickles down to the average person that will translate into the midterm elections.

NOBLES: April raises such a great point, David. The passage is one thing. Implementation is another. How big of a victory is this for Biden, and how important is it for Americans to feel the impact of this? You know, we had a very promising jobs report this month. Does he need -- does there need to be some sort of tangible benefit to this before the midterm elections?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, absolutely. But let's be serious about this, Ryan. This is the most, single most important accomplishment of the Biden presidency so far. And he deserves a lot of credit for it. He stayed in there, hung in there, it was an extremely messy process. I think the cloud from the messiness will stick with him. I think he's got to do other things to get his mojo back.

And I think April is right. One of the first things is to show that it's actually going to make a difference in the lives of blue-collar workers. For example, a lot of jobs potentially there. The United States has always had great infrastructure, it's some of the best in the world. And we were letting it decay. This is going to turn it around. So that's important and the president deserves credit. But getting his mojo back, it's got to be more than that. You've got to see an improvement in the economy. 500,000 job this last

month. But that's not enough. You need to get back to a million or so (INAUDIBLE) we can, get the jobs back, get this pandemic under control, and get the next bill passed. All of them would I think give him a lot more momentum. But right now he still has huge work to do to get out of the hole that's been dug here in the last few months.

NOBLES: So, April, we did just get some new sounding from former Governor Chris Christie. And he actually had a pretty tough message to a Republican audience in Las Vegas. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), FORMER NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR: We can no longer talk about the past and the past elections. No matter, no matter where you stand on that issue, no matter where you stand, it is over.

And every minute that we spend talking about 2020, while we're wasting time doing that, Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Nancy Pelosi, and Chuck Schumer are laying ruin to this country. We better focus on that and take our eyes off the rearview mirror and start looking through the windshield again.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

NOBLES: April, there's one pretty prominent Republican who seems to want to talk about 2020 an awful lot, and that's the former president Donald Trump. Do you think the rest of the Republican Party agrees with Chris Christie?

[15:20:02]

RYAN: They are in agreement with Chris Christie but also in agreement with Donald John Trump. They want to hold on to whatever they consider is the magic of what Donald Trump did, the magic that also produced January 6th to a certain extent. But at the end of the day, they understand, look at what happened in Virginia, how Virginia was able to edge out and have a Republican win.

They're trying to play on yesterday as well as the promises of tomorrow and keep the misinformation, the unchecked facts going to create wins and to bring back the White House to their party by any means necessary.

NOBLES: So, David, Republicans obviously feeling pretty good about their wins in Virginia. They made gains in New Jersey, even though they fell short in the governor's race. One of the issues that took place in Virginia, and I live in Virginia, is this kind of capitalizing on this fear about critical race theory being taught in schools. It's something FOX News repeats all the time, all day long. But listen to this admission from Tucker Carlson, one of their prominent hosts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST: I've never figured out what critical race theory is to be totally honest after you're talking about it. They're teaching that some races are morally superior to others. That some are inherently sinful and some are inherently saintly, and that's immoral to teach that because it's wrong.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

NOBLES: So they kind of laugh about it but he admits that it's wrong but then goes on to give some sort of a definition of it that is really opaque. He doesn't seem to know what it is. A lot of people who seem to peddle it don't know what it is. Does that actually, to a certain extent, confuse voters and are Republicans taking advantage of that confusion to try and get people to the polls?

GERGEN: Yes. Listen. I think when you spend a whole year talking about an issue and then say you don't know what it's really about, it hurts the credibility of the speaker, in this case Tucker Carlson. And so it doesn't surprise me. He's a pro with this. He understands how to play this game. He plays it altogether too well (INAUDIBLE) Democrats.

You know, I think this is just a misstep on his part, but I do believe this that these kind of issues, these down-home issues that people live with within their families after coming through this pandemic and all the problems that have come up in the schools about school attendance and what to do about masks, and all the rest of it, that the Republicans understood that better than the Democrats did.

The Democrats used to be the blue-collar, middle-class working party. For years it was the Republicans, you know, who looked like they were breaking through, have been able to raise issues like this. They don't really know about but they cut with American families.

There is a new (INAUDIBLE) around it that there a lot of people who feel like, look, we got enough interference with the lives of our children already. Let's not get into sort of demeaning America. Most Americans want to heart critical race theory think these are folks who are demeaning America and demeaning America's past.

We do need to reach a point where we can be honest and frank with each other about the awfulness of some aspects of our past while also saluting and understanding we were a brave country starting out in many ways, and we were a much more united country. We have to get back to that. We're all people in the end.

NOBLES: All right. We're going to have to leave it there.

David Gergen and April Ryan, always an excellent conversation. We appreciate it so much.

And coming up, Green Bay Packers' quarterback Aaron Rodgers playing the victim after misleading the public about his vaccination status.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AARON RODGERS, GREEN PAY PACKERS QUARTERBACK: I didn't lie in the initial press conference. During that time it was a very, you know, witch hunt that was going on across the league where everybody in the media was so concerned about who was vaccinated and who wasn't.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NOBLES: More than a year after the 2020 election and Donald Trump is still proudly talking about his efforts to upend Georgia's election results, and all the while investigators are looking into whether he committed a crime are quietly taking notes.

CNN's Sara Murray reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As Donald Trump fired off his September letter demanding Georgia's Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger decertify the election.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're not forgetting 2020. Most corrupt election in the history of our country.

MURRAY: Fani Willis took notice.

FANI WILLIS, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, FULTON COUNTY, GEORGIA: What I can tell you is that the Trump investigation is ongoing.

MURRAY: The Fulton County district attorney told staffers she wanted that letter, the original copy, envelope and all for her investigation, according to a person familiar.

While Trump continues to bellow that 2020 and inserts himself into Peach State politics, his public rants are providing new fodder to investigators as they examine whether Trump's election meddling efforts were criminal.

At a recent campaign stuff with Georgia candidates, Trump took the stage before an adoring crowd.

TRUMP: We wanted to call a special election, and I think the governor is the only one that can call it, right?

MURRAY: And he offered more insight on his interactions with another potentially relevant witness around the 2020 election, Georgia Governor Brian Kemp.

TRUMP: Like these guys would come back, young guy, sir, we spoke to Governor Kemp. Sir, he will not do anything on election integrity. I said, let me handle this. This is easy.

MURRAY: Investigators took note of the lengths Trump and his aides went to pressure Kemp, all in Trump's own words.

TRUMP: I said, Brian, listen, you know, you have a big election integrity problem in Georgia. I hope you can help us out and call a special election.

MURRAY: Kemp in the call last December with Trump refused.

TRUMP: Let me tell you this guy is a disaster.

[15:30:00]

MURRAY (voice-over): Newly public evidence, like Trump's letter, a book by Raffensperger, and newly released testimony from a panel investigating Trump's efforts to overturn the election, are helping to provide a road map for what is a sprawling investigation.

Raffensperger making clear in his book that he felt Trump was threatening him in moments like this, where Trump baselessly accused Raffensperger's office of covering up corrupt ballots.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know, that's a criminal offense. You can't let that happen. That's a big risk to you and to Ryan, your lawyer. That's a big risk.

MURRAY: "Now, President Trump is using what he believes is the power of his position to threaten Ryan and me with prosecution if we don't do what he wants us to do," Raffensperger writes.

BRAD RAFFENSPERGER, GEORGE SECRETARY OF STATE: I could hear that he thought that he could have some kind of pressure to bear from outside forces to make our lives miserable.

MURRAY (on camera): So, like, what is it to them if they choose to ruin Brad Raffensperger's life.

RAFFENSPERGER: They didn't care about one person, that person is in their life.

MURRAY (voice-over): Raffensperger says he's willing to appear before a grand jury if Willis summons him.

RAFFENSPERGER: I respect the law.

MURRAY: But she hasn't yet.

RAFFENSPERGER: I'll be there to give my vision of my opinion or my comments of what I saw.

MURRAY: The 2020 midterms could offer new headaches for investigators and witnesses alike.

MICHAEL J. MOORE, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: I think that a prosecutor's job is to not be political, but I don't think you can divorce yourself from political reality. And we all know what the calendar is.

MURRAY: Raffensperger is facing a primary challenge from Congressman Jodi Hice, who believes Trump rightfully won the state of Georgia.

REP. JODY HICE (R-GA): Nobody understands the disaster of the lack of election integrity like the people of Georgia.

MURRAY: And Kemp has been largely silent on Trump's efforts to upend the election and signed a new restrictive voting law as he tries to shore up his stranding with the GOP base.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOBLES: All right. Let's talk more about this with the man himself, the Georgia election official who defied pressure by Trump to overturn the 2020 election laws, the secretary of state of the great state of Georgia, Brad Raffensperger.

Mr. Secretary, I appreciate your being here.

You're also the author of a new book called "Integrity Counts."

As you just heard, your new book is evidence in the probe of Mr. Trump and his role to try to overturn the 2020 election.

When you heard the former president proudly recount his interactions with you -- and, of course, you were there, you took the phone call from him -- did you think to yourself that he might be trying to build some sort of a case?

Or he was trying to lay the groundwork for there to be some level of building a case against himself?

Did it seem like it was coming out that way?

RAFFENSPERGER: Well, good afternoon.

When I had the conversation with the president, we already had several lawsuits from the Trump campaign and their allies, and so I knew whatever we said could possibly be part of the deposition and any court proceeding.

So I wanted to be very factual. And I let him know he did not have the right facts.

And so he did, you know, make all of his allegations in that call. He said there was 5,000 dead people. His people actually said 10,000 officially.

But there was only at that time two. Two. So we found less than five people who had died, but someone voted in their place.

There weren't thousands of felons that voted. There was less than 74. And there weren't 66,000 underaged voters. There was zero.

So all of his facts were wrong.

We stood on facts, followed the law, and we followed the constitution. We knew we had the facts and the right information and his team didn't.

NOBLES: Just to update, you still haven't been called before the grand jury yet, right?

RAFFENSPERGER: No, I have not.

NOBLES: OK.

So you went through a lot. You and your family went through a lot during that period of time.

I do want to go through the background of what you were forced to deal with.

Just a day after the polls closed, while votes were still being counted, your wife, Trisha, got a text that said the following, quote, "Hi, Patricia. This is getting really ugly. Do Brad a favor and tell him to step down immediately."

Others she received: "Your husband deserves to face a firing squad."

And then, "You'd better not botch this recount. Your life depends on it."

Intruders also broke into the home of your daughter-in-law.

Are you still getting threats to this day?

RAFFENSPERGER: Nothing like we had back a year ago.

But also to that point about doing a recount. We did a 100 percent hand recount. What that did was verify that the machines did not flip the votes as alleged by many people.

And also, the count we had for the machines was the same as the hand recount and President Trump came up short.

My Republican friends and what they need to understand -- and why I put it in the book -- is 28,000 in Georgia skipped the presidential ballot. They didn't vote for anyone.

And Senator David Perdue got 20,000 more votes in the metropolitan areas and Athens than President Trump.

And then the congressional areas, President Trump got 33,000 less votes than the Republican congressman.

[15:35:02]

Those three data points really say it all.

But also we've answered every single allegation.

I've included in my book that in the 10-page letter to Congress that none of the allegations they made were not factually correct. They were not supported by data.

NOBLES: You took a principled stand during this time. You continue to do so.

A lot of politicians in your own party facing all of the pressure that they would from their own party would have said, I've had enough, I'm going off into the private sector to do something else in the private sector, somewhere else..

You're running for re-election. You're putting yourself back up on the ballot.

And you're being challenged by Republican Congressman Jody Hice, who, of course, has the endorsement of the president.

Some of the things Hice said about you, he said, quote, "It's my deep conviction that Brad Raffensperger has massively compromised the rights of the people at the ballot box."

"He's opened wide the door for all sorts of irregularities and fraud to march into our election system. And it is time we take charge of this."

Obviously, sir, you always respond to everything with data and facts. What's your response to this?

RAFFENSPERGER: Well, what he says is just hyperbole and rhetoric. If you really look at it, during a post-election down in Ware County, a small county is south Georgia, there was about a 37-count vote difference, which turned out to be about a 0.26 percent difference.

He said it was 26 percent. He can't do basic math. He actually certified his own race with the same votes, the same machines and said his election was fair and balanced, but President Trump's wasn't.

That's a double-minded person. As a pastor, he should know better.

NOBLES: He's not the only Republican who happily accepted the results of their winning election but then claimed somehow there was something wrong with the results where it hurt former President Donald Trump

Mr. Raffensperger, we appreciate you so much for being on. Good luck with your book. And you have a big election ahead of you.

We appreciate it, sir.

RAFFENSPERGER: Thank you.

NOBLES: Tonight, key Republican official shares never-before-heard details about how close our country came to losing democracy and what Trump is planning for 2024.

You don't want to miss this, the Jake Tapper special, "TRUMPING DEMOCRACY: AN AMERICAN COUP" that airs tonight at 8:00 p.m. right here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:41:57]

NOBLES: Green Bay Packers' quarterback, Aaron Rodgers, is now owning up to the fact he's not vaccinated for COVID despite telling reporters in August he had been, quote, "immunized." Rodgers tested positive for coronavirus earlier this week and now he's

blaming what he calls the woke mob and cancel culture for the backlash he's getting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AARON RODGERS, QUARTERBACK, GREEN BAY PACKERS: I realize I'm in the cross hairs of the woke mob right now.

So before my final nail gets put in my cancel culture casket, I think I'd like to set the record straight on some of the blatant lies that are out there about myself right now.

I'm not, you know, some sort of anti-vax flat-earther. I'm somebody who's a critical thinker. You guys know me. I march to the beat of my own drum.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBLES: Rodgers said he had a lot of study or he conducted a lot of study that went into his decision to not get vaccinated. He said it was a lot like the study he put into hosting "Jeopardy!."

He also said he had concerns about sterility and that he couldn't get the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines because of allergies to an ingredient in it.

As for not completely following all of the NFL guidelines for unvaccinated players, he quoted Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RODGERS: As an aside, the great MLK said you have a moral obligation to object to unjust rules and rules that make no sense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBLES: Well, joining me to talk about this, retired NFL player and global neurosurgery fellow at Harvard Medical School, Dr. Myron Rolle.

Myron, thank you so much for joining us.

This has shocked a lot of people. Rodgers is considered to be a huge role model, maybe one of the biggest stars in the NFL.

First, what's your reaction to his comments both as a former NFL player and as someone in the medical field?

DR. MYRON ROLLE, RETIRED NFL PLAYER & GLOBAL NEUROSURGERY FELLOW, HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL: Well, thank you for having me.

You know, initially I thought that his comments that he made in the beginning of the season when asked about his vaccination status was intentionally duplicitous.

He said, yes, I'm immunized when asked if he was vaccinated. That was deceitful and mislead a lot of people to believe he was vaccinated.

So the NFL and the NFLDA (ph), they've come to a compromise they want these players on the field and they'll provide two pathways. Vaccinated players have a protocol. Unvaccinated players have a protocol.

He felt strongly in his own personal conviction and his personal constitution that some of these protocols didn't fit with him. And so he skirted around them and is now missing a game because of it.

So what I see in that, as a medical professional now and as a former NFL player as well, I see someone making a decision in a silo.

He's self-serving and thinking about himself as opposed to the larger bigger scheme of the team, the community. And as you mentioned, being a leader and role model for members of the community.

[15:45:01]

So I hope he takes this as a learning lesson and a teaching lesson. And I hope he can rectify it.

But I do believe he's a very intelligent person. But I think maybe he just needs better facts to make a better judgment, a better decision going forward.

NOBLES: It sounds like what you're saying is he's not being a good teammate because he's not sacrificing for the team.

It's one thing to say you're doing for the team but to do it in an underhanded way to skirt the protocols, that's not being a very good teammate, is it?

ROLLE: That's correct. I've been saying from the very beginning of this pandemic, public health, the goal is to be a team. Everyone's a teammate, right?

We're a global team in this fight against the pandemic. People in the health profession, nurses, security guards, material management, physicians, scientists, we're all doing our work on the health side of this.

And then the public adhering to the behavioral lifestyle and modifications of public health experts they're trying to have us do, they're needing us to do our part as well.

Yes, not being a great teammate for the Green Bay Packers and for the larger community.

And someone with the social capitol and cachet that he has, I believe it's a responsibility for him to be informed, to not allow political conjecture and agendas lead the way.

And have a clear myopic focus on the objective data that the experts have provided for all of us.

NOBLES: He also had the best doctors in the world, right? Yet, he's taking advice from someone with no medical background at all.

Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RODGERS: I consulted with a now good friend of mine, Joe Rogan, after he got COVID, and I've been doing a lot of the stuff he recommended in his podcasts and on the phone to me.

I'm thankful for people like Joe stepping up and using their voice. I'm thankful for my medical squad and all the love and support I've gotten.

But i've been taking monoclonal antibodies, Ivermectin, Zinc, Vitamins C and D, HCQ, and I feel pretty incredible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBLES: So what do you say to that?

ROLLE: You know, I say to him, look, if you came into our hospital at Mass General and you were approaching the near surgical team and said, look, I have a tumor, and I want you to take it out.

I'd hope you'd rely on and respect our research and years of experience to go into that particular surgery to keep you safe and help treat that near surgical disease that you have. You'd rely on our expertise do that.

I hope he relies on the expertise of women and men scientists and their livelihoods, their efforts toward the mechanisms of how vaccines are administered and disseminated.

We would respect you to be an outstanding quarterback to fire a ball down the field to get it to Devonta Adams for a touchdown. Same way you need to respect other experts as well.

That's the sort of message I would give him, provide the best information possible to him so he can make great decisions.

He makes great decisions daily as a quarterback, and here's another example for him to step forward and be a leader on and off the field.

NOBLES: One more thing I want you to react to. Former NBA player, Rex Chapman, famous on Twitter, made this point:

He said, "Pro athletes take all kinds of shots in order to play nightly, from Toradol to Novocain. I took anything that would have allowed me to play in the upcoming game.

You can't tell me that pro athletes know what are in these drugs that they're taking. This is stupid. Take a shot. And be a good teammate."

To his point, painkillers are used, sometimes abused in the world of sports. And sometimes they take the recommendations of their training staff so they can get back on the field. Yet, he won't take a vaccine that's been tested and approved by the FDA that could potentially save his life.

Isn't that a contradiction in his approach to this?

ROLLE: You're absolutely right. And, Rex, I agree with that completely.

Let me take it a step further in my own lane. Play a sport that is high-velocity impact collisions on a daily basis, right? You're getting hit, you're getting blind-sided.

We know some of these repetitive hits lead to memory loss, amnesia, depression, mood swings and sometimes personality as well.

To your point, that's dangerous already. But there's difficulty sort of managing and thinking through taking a vaccine that's been shown millions upon millions upon millions of times, data entries that show that it's effective and works for his particular demographic as well.

It's somewhat contradictory. But again, as someone who wants to be a voice of reason and provides that evidence and provides that sort of without the background noise, the motionless data for him and other players who are maybe have been hesitant to the data of the vaccine.

[15:49:59]

NOBLES: But there may not be a better person at the intersection of these two issues to talk about this.

Myron Rolle, thank you so much for being here. We appreciate it.

And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NOBLES: Voting is underway for the 2021 CNN Hero of the Year. And we'll be introducing you to each of the top-10 finalist.

David Flink was diagnosed with ADHD and Dyslexia at age 11. Now he's an adult and working to make sure children like him don't fall through the cracks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[15:55:09]

DAVID FLINK, CNN HERO: Eye to Eye provides a safe space for kids to talk about their experiences.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you get scared during tests, feeling nervous?

UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: I have anxiety and, like, I shake a lot.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, that happens to me sometimes.

FLINK: People's hearts sing when they're seen.

UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: This is my shield.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's really cool. I like how you used duct tape as a handle.

FLINK: My moment that I am wishing for is when the problem of stigmatizing kids because they learn differently goes away.

I want them to though their brains are beautiful. I want them to know how to ask for what they need. And that's what we give them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, Daniel.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)