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Buttigieg Speaks on Benefits of Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill; Criminal Investigation Begins into Deadly Concert Crowd Surge; Trial Resumes for Defendants in Killing of Ahmaud Arbery; Hall of Famers Slam Aaron Rodgers: "It's Despicable and It's Wrong". Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired November 08, 2021 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00]

PETE BUTTIGIEG, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: Now, there's clearly an issue with the quality of the jobs. And one tool for improving the quality of that job is representation.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And the administration has been silent on the specific call for this. So you're endorsing these short-haul truck drivers?

BUTTIGIEG: I don't know if you're applying that to a particular employer. But what I would say is, you know, we believe in what unions can do to enhance the standing of workers in any industry.

And -- but also for, you know, for independent truck drivers. I'm very clear that there's an issue with what happens when they get to the gate of a port, for example.

And that largely has to do with compensation structures across the industry that are over and above what the union issue speaks to.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you think they are still in Los Angeles and Long Beach or are they moving in recent weeks as steps have been taken to ease the congestion?

BUTTIGIEG: Yes. We've seen some steps that are making a big difference there in terms of moving the containers, obviously the 24/7 ops biz.

But the bottom line is -- and I think this is important -- and others may be following this.

It's not that the ports are moving less goods, that they have somehow been less able. They are moving more goods than ever. It's just that it's still not keeping up with the demand.

The National Retail Federation predicts an all-time record high this year. And that's enormous pressure. And whenever you have enormous pressure on that system, you'll find the weakest place in that system.

And that, frankly, could pop up at any juncture in the U.S., which is why we're really focused on L.A./Long Beach because it has 40 percent of the containers coming in. But anywhere including 1,000 places inland, where containers are

coming in. But anywhere in the country you can see these issues.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Are they not the bottleneck anymore or are they moving --

BUTTIGIEG: It's not a matter of the bottleneck, right? Literally anywhere in our economy, there's a relationship between a manufacturer, a shipper and a retailer.

There are a thousand points in that chain where something can go wrong. And we're seeing a lot of those points reveal themselves because of the enormous demand, the constraints on supply, the outdated infrastructure that it all runs across.

And then the fact that the pandemic is poking holes in all of the above, which is why the other thing I think is important to point out, having seen shortages in -- you know, started with toilet paper and then it was beef last year.

The best way to end a pandemic-related shortage is to end the pandemic. And that's why the vaccine push is so important.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Great. Thank you so much.

BUTTIGIEG: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you

BUTTIGIEG: Thanks again. Really good being with you.

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: The White House taking a victory lap on the passage of the $1.2 trillion bipartisan infrastructure bill.

We heard the transportation secretary there emphasizing that this package includes investments, in fact, the largest investment ever in bridges. The largest ever investment in public transit, he says.

He says it will strengthen the supply chain. He says it will create lots of jobs.

And up next is the implementation of all these investments. That we can expect the president to travel the country to emphasize how these investments are making a difference.

Much more still ahead here in the NEWSROOM, including more on the deadly Astroworld concert in Houston, including some crucial medical questions. How did this get so deadly so fast? We'll discuss.

Plus, the backlash growing against Aaron Rodgers for misrepresenting his vaccination status. NFL legends are ripping the reigning MVP, calling him selfish and a liar.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:37:49] CABRERA: Just in, moments ago, Travis Scott announcing he'll cover all funeral costs for the eight victims who died at his Astroworld Festival concert on Friday. This is according to a representative of the rapper.

Many more were injured after a crowd surge at the Astroworld Festival. Witnesses describing struggling for air as a wall of people crushed towards the stage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REESE BLUDAU, ATTENDED ASTROWORLD FESTIVAL: I knew anyone who is a smaller person was going to be definitely struggling to breathe and just maintain their space.

Once somebody falls it's very hard to get back up because the space will just fill in. I'm a little bit taller so I was able to look up and breathe.

DANA SCHLOMOVITS, ATTENDED ASTROWORLD FESTIVAL: Everyone around us was just trying to take each individual breath, and there was just no air left for anyone to breathe.

We were too closely compact. Everyone was too pushed up against each other. There was just nowhere to go and no air to breathe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: No air to breathe.

Let's bring in Dr. Esther Choo. She's a professor of emergency medicine at Oregon Science and Health University.

Dr. Choo, what we just heard and what we continue to hear from witnesses they just couldn't breathe. People couldn't breathe. Can you tell us medically what is happening in that moment?

DR. ESTHER CHOO, PROFESSOR OF EMERGENCY MEDICINE, OREGON SCIENCE & HEALTH UNIVERSITY: Yes. That's -- that's so painful to listen to, Ana. I mean, they are describing so well what happens in crowds, in tightly packed crowds where you actually get an asphyxia from being so packed in together.

When there's spacing between people, you have individual room to determine where your body goes and to make sure, you know, can you move and sway and breathe comfortably.

As crowds get more tightly packed together, it doesn't take much for what's happening in one place to kind of ripple through the crowd.

So one person trips and falls or shoves against someone and that causes other people to fall and it kind of becomes this -- you know, this chain reaction.

And that allows people to get packed in, each more tightly together until the compressive forces actually prevent you from breathing. Or sometimes people fall down on top of each other and that becomes kind of a pile-up where really hundreds of pounds of pressure can be exerted to people on the bottom.

[13:40:03]

And they simply cannot take in a breath. They can't. And their chest wall and that -- that leads to asphyxiation.

CABRERA: I think you touched on this, but what is shocking to me -- I should remind the viewers that we don't know yet the cause of death yet for those who died or those hospitalized.

But the fact that they couldn't breathe and this was in a confined space, how are we to understand that in such a big outdoor venue that it can be so suffocating?

CHOO: Yes. I mean, this can happen in any setting where -- where you are not -- where there's just way too many people packed in in a small space.

Any time there's not -- you know, we think of outdoors as plenty of air and plenty of space. And yet, as long as you have dead ends for a crowd where people can push up against each other, it doesn't really matter if you're indoors or outdoors.

What matters is that bodies can get packed in very quickly. There's forces pushing from the back of our crowd to the front and being transmitted to people that are really up against a hard surface and really packed in there.

And it doesn't matter where you are, but -- but if your chest wall doesn't have room to expand, you can't get the air in.

CABRERA: Another scary scenario that I keep envisioning is this description, if you fell, you probably couldn't get up. It was that tight.

It sounds like it was really difficult for medical staff to get to those people in need of help.

If someone is deprived of oxygen, as you describe, with chest walls being constructed and/or being pushed down and having all this force on top, how quickly would you need to get to that?

CHOO: Yes. There's so many elements of this tragedy that you're pointing out so well, which is, you know, what are the things that should have been done to prevent this from happening?

How could that have been recognized very quickly by security or event staff? And then did they have it set up so that emergency personnel could be alerted and get into them quickly?

Because you really need to decompress a crowd like that within a few minutes. And then you need ways. You need ways, paths in, paths out for

personnel to get in and transport out injured people should you get to the point where people are injured.

And you're totally right. We don't actually know what happened just because of the crowd dynamic and the way that people who were there described it.

I'm guessing some people were injured by traumatic asphyxiation. But it's also possible that there were some -- some blunt trauma injuries that people had simply because of the falling in the crowd pressure.

But it would certainly sound like some people were crushed and not able to breathe.

CABRERA: Yes. We heard people were passing out standing up, in fact. Those are some of the reports. It sounds like it could have been even worse than it was. And it was so incredibly tragic.

Dr. Esther Choo, thank you so much for your expertise and helping us understand how this happened.

CHOO: Thank you.

CABRERA: Still to come, it's day two of the trial for the three men accused of chasing and killing Ahmaud Arbery. What we're learning about the weapon used and how that evidence was handled, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:48:17]

CABRERA: In Georgia, more testimony today in the trial of three white man charged with killing black jogger, Ahmaud Arbery.

The defendants, Gregory McMichael, and his son, Travis McMichael, along with their neighbor, William "Roddie" Bryan, are charged with felony and malice murder, among other charges.

The second prosecution witness, a crime scene technician, took the stand today as photos of Arbery's body were entered into evidence.

The trial got off to an emotional start on Friday. Arbery's mother Wanda Cooper Jones, sobbed as video of his killing was shown in court.

CNN correspondent, Ryan Young, is covering this trial in Brunswick, Georgia.

Ryan, update us on today's testimony.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Ana, obviously, some very tough video to watch on Friday. Today seems like it was just as hard but it was done differently.

These is all the backbones of this investigation. Obviously, you had one crime scene investigator on the stand for about an hour talking about how she collected evidence once she arrived on scene.

She didn't even realize that trucks were involved when she arrived on scene.

But we did see some of the graphic photos of Ahmaud Arbery on the ground and some of the wounds that he suffered from the gunshot wounds. And that obviously gave people in that courtroom pause.

Since then, there's been a bulk of time being spent with the first officer, Ricky Minshew, who arrived on scene. And a lot of questions to him how he processed everything as he arrived.

One thing you notice from his body camera is he didn't put anybody under arrest. He didn't render aid immediately after arriving on scene.

He says the reason why he didn't render aid was because he wanted to make sure he was safe because he was the only officer arriving.

And in fact, during the break that we just had, about 20 minutes ago, Ahmaud Arbery's mother was saying the same thing. She was shocked that her son wasn't rendered aid until the second officer arrived.

[13:50:05]

And then we saw some more video being played in the court. So that was part that we saw in terms of the turnaround of the truck, the speed up, and the shots being fired.

The audio was played and that shotgun sound could be heard reverberating through the area.

At this point, they're going step by step through the process of the officer arriving and his initial conversation with everybody when he got there.

In fact, he started reading back some of the things that he noticed.

But take a listen to right now about what he had when he first had a conversation with the three men as he arrived on scene.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: Did he say, specifically, that he blocked Ahmaud during this chase?

RICKY MINSHEW, FORMER GLYNN COUNTY POLICE OFFICER: Yes, ma'am.

UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: Did he say specifically that he cornered Ahmaud during this chase?

MINSHEW: Yes, ma'am.

UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: How many times did Mr. Bryan say that he either blocked Ahmaud or cornered him during this chase?

MINSHEW: After going back and reviewing the transcribed body camera, it appeared to be approximately five times.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YOUNG: Ana, one thing that's been clear so far is none of the men said they saw Ahmaud Arbery breaking the law before they started chasing him.

So that's all being developed right now. We're still watching this court case as it plays out. Some of it starting to pick up as we get some more of these specific questions.

CABRERA: Ryan Young, in Brunswick, Georgia, thank you.

The defendants claim Ahmaud Arbery's killing was an act of self- defense as they tried to make a citizen's arrest.

Let's get some insight on this topic from CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney, Joey Jackson.

Joey, we just heard from one witness in that sound byte. There was another witness today, a sergeant, who worked for the Glynn County P.D. She arrived on scene and she took photos.

The prosecutor shows approximately 60 photos of the crime scene, including a bloody sheet covering Arbery, a shot gun with blood on it.

And she testified that Arbery didn't have anything in his pockets, no weapons, no phone. That, combined with what we heard in that clip with Ryan, what is your read on how the prosecutor is laying out their case with their first couple of witnesses?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Ana, good afternoon to you.

I think it is compelling testimony. If you look at the graphic evidence depicted there, number one, you want to bring that jury to the scene.

They need to be there. They need to sense and see what actually happened. I think that has a major effect.

Number two, you want them, when they see that, to hold someone accountable.

But I think ultimately if you look at what the prosecution is doing, they're trying to even nullify, right? They're trying to take off the table that there was even this need to use this archaic law of citizens arrest.

How? There are three real problems the defense has. Number one, in order to use that law, Ana, you have to demonstrate there was a crime committed.

The prosecution is saying, what was Ahmaud Arbery doing but milling about at a construction site. What crime are you referring to?

If the prosecution is able to blunt the notion there was even a crime, you don't get the benefit of using that law. So that is problem number one.

Problem number two, what the prosecution is doing is they're indicating that, really, was there a need for self-defense? That is going to be a critical portion. And that is a real hurdle the defense has to overcome.

And the third hurdle that the defense is going to have is this notion of they needed to do this.

Well, if you are the actual initial aggressor and you start a fight, for example, and you start a deadly encounter, you don't have the privilege of using self-defense.

So those are the three problematic areas that the defense has.

And I think the prosecution is really bringing the jury to the scene and casting real issues as to whether or not he should have been looking at, stopped, chased, or anything, much less there being a deadly confrontation.

And so far, it's been to great effect.

CABRERA: Thank you so much, Joey, for laying out that context and that perspective and how we could view what we've learned so far. We'll check back with you as more developments happen.

And now I also want to update our viewers on another step forward toward normal after 20 months of COVID-related travel restrictions.

Starting today, international travelers can now visit the U.S. for the first time since early 2020, provided they are fully vaccinated. The requirement applies to those coming into the country by air, by land, or by boat.

Airlines all across Europe are reporting full or nearly full flights as pent-up demand is released.

And at JFK Airport here in New York, balloons and applause as the first British Airways flight landed there earlier today.

Now to the growing backlash against Green Bay Packers quarterback, Aaron Rodgers, after he admitted and defended not getting the COVID vaccine despite previously saying he was immunized.

Former players and coaches are slamming the three-time NFL MVP for his latest comments, which included a quote from Martin Luther King as part of his explanation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[13:55:02]

JIMMY JOHNSON, NFL HALL OF FAMER: And I respect his attitude toward being an individual. But this is a team game.

And in all honesty, I'm disappointed in his play on words for his explanation. I'm disappointed in some of his selfish actions.

TERRY BRADSHAW, NFL HALL OF FAMER: Unfortunately, we have players who pretty much think only about themselves. And I'm extremely disappointed in the actions of Aaron Rodgers.

UNIDENTIFIED NFL HALL OF FAMER: There are times to quote Martin Luther King and this was not one of them as well.

UNIDENTIFIED NFL HALL OF FAMER: In the grand scheme of things, it's deceptive and it's wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: With us now, Dr. Peter Hotez.

Doctor, Rodgers gave all kind of reasons for not getting the vaccine, from being allergic to certain ingredients in the mRNA vaccines, to worries about infertility.

If Aaron Rodgers walked into your office right now, what would you say to him?

DR. PETER HOTEZ, DEAN, NATIONAL SCHOOL OF TROPICAL MEDICINE, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: Well, I think, one of the worst things he said was he ascribed this to wokeness.

And he was tone deaf, oblivious to the fact that, Ana, since June 1st, we've lost 150,000 Americans who have died from COVID who were unvaccinated.

And 150,000 unvaccinated individuals whose lives could have been saved had there been that level of support and advocacy and not this kind of disinformation and some of the terrible things that Aaron Rodgers said.

And I think the way I look at it is that there's a vacuum here.

And what is happening is that, because the National Basketball Association and the National Football League have been silent, they've not mounted a really supportive pro-vaccine message and campaign out there, that there's a vacuum.

So this is why we're hearing from people like Kyrie Irving or Aaron Rodgers. These are effectively becoming the voices of the NFL policy on vaccines.

And so I also put at fault the NBA and NFL commissioner, the team owners, that they're not stepping up and really putting on this vigorous campaign to talk about the importance of vaccinations to the American people.

So there's a gap there. And this is why statements like Aaron Rodgers' become of inflated performance.

CABRERA: Rodgers says he's not some kind of anti-vax flat earther. He calls himself a critical thinker. But it sounds like he's misinformed? HOTEZ: Well, two points. When someone said they are not anti-vaccine,

it is like the guy that says it's not about the money and it is all about the money.

He's anti-vaccine, number one. And two, he's not critical thinking. He's gone down a rabbit hole with people like Joe Rogan, who talks about Ivermectin and other kinds of false, fake cures.

So that is exactly the point. He is not critical thinking, by any means.

He's touting far-right extremist views that, as I said, this is not an academy argument. This is the loss of 150,000 Americans since June 1 who did not have to lose their lives.

CABRERA: And doctors, like yourself, have also talked about the questions around fertility, that some have expressed as their reason for not getting the vaccine, and have suggested that that is just not an issue at all, whatsoever.

There's no danger about becoming not able to have kids after having a vaccine like this.

But let me turn --

(CROSSTALK)

HOTEZ: Well, what happened was, the anti-vaccine lobby copy/pasted their fake assertion on the HPV vaccine for cervical cancer, which they also said caused infertility.

And they just copy/pasted it on COVID-19 vaccines without any evidence at all. And it doesn't make sense.

CABRERA: And in fact, there's evidence to the contrary of people who have gotten pregnant after getting vaccinated.

HOTEZ: That's right. Of course, yes.

CABRERA: As influential people, like Rodgers, spout misinformation about the vaccines and the virus itself, a "New York Times" analysis finds that the COVID death-toll divide between red and blue America has grown faster over the past month than at any previous point during this pandemic.

So this disparity is apparently getting worse, not better. Why, and how do you change that?

HOTEZ: Well, this is what is happened is the far right, increasingly, this is mainstream now across the conservative movement.

You're seeing this on FOX News and the night-time spot spouting anti- vaccine disinformation. This has become a mainstream platform of conservativism in the United States.

And it is not that people, like myself, are politicizing vaccines, their politicizing vaccines.

My job is to say the anti-science aggression does not belong in the Republican Party. We've got to find a way to uncouple it.

Because I keep revisiting this, 150,000 Americans dead since June 1 who did not have to die.

CABRERA: And now we're at three-quarters of a million of Americans who have lost their lives over the course of this pandemic.

Dr. Peter Hotez, I really appreciate you. Thanks for all you do and for joining us today.

[13:59:51]

And that does it for us this afternoon. Thank you for being there with us. I'll see you back here tomorrow at 1:00 p.m. Eastern. In the meantime, you can join me on Twitter, @AnaCabrera.

The news continues next with Alisyn and Victor.