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Astroworld Investigation; Insurrection Probe. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired November 09, 2021 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:25]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Victor Blackwell. Thank you for joining us.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: I'm Alisyn Camerota.

We begin with the potential for even more subpoenas from the select committee investigating the January 6 insurrection. The committee's chairman, Congressman Bennie Thompson, says he's signed at least 20 subpoenas soon to be served.

Six members of former President Trump's inner circle were targeted yesterday, which gives us some insight into who lawmakers want to speak to next.

BLACKWELL: But for investigators to actually get any cooperation or testimony from these witnesses, they may need Attorney General Merrick Garland to take action against another Trump ally, Steve Bannon.

The former adviser has already been held in contempt of Congress after defying his subpoena. But more than two weeks later, the DOJ has not yet taken action.

CNN's Ryan Nobles is on Capitol Hill.

So where do these potential forthcoming subpoenas stand? And what's the committee expect when it comes to compliance of the six we just highlighted?

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so, Victor and Alisyn, at any moment, we could get news of a new round of subpoenas that have been issued by the January 6 Select Committee, the committee not being specific as to one we will hear about those particular subpoenas, but as you point out, the chairman, Bennie Thompson, saying that there is the potential of as many 20 names that could come out in their subpoena target lists.

And we saw just six names issued yesterday. So we're waiting for that to happen at any moment. But in terms of that group of subpoena targets that we saw yesterday, these are individuals who played a big role in peddling the big lie in between the November election and January 6, and they are all people with very close ties to the former President Donald Trump.

And to your question about compliance, what we found throughout this process is people that are very close to the former president have been pretty defiant in their interactions with the committee. Some are engaging, but very few are providing any, if -- any information at all as it relates to this investigation.

And one of those targets yesterday, Bernard Kerik, perhaps signaled just how defined this group may end up being. He's the former New York City police commissioner. He issued a lengthy statement where he basically made it clear that he's not interested in cooperating.

Kerik said -- quote -- in part: "I will not be threatened, intimidated, forced into bankruptcy or silenced at the hands of this committee, who are not looking for truth, but are targeting patriots and members of president -- the president's legal team that wanted nothing more to investigate and expose these irregularities."

And Kerik said in that statement that he was prepared to come and talk to the committee, but when he saw their press release yesterday, it angered him because he believed that they were accusing him of things that he just did not do, which is essentially peddling false information about the election results.

Kerik, of course, part of that group in the Willard Hotel in the days leading up to January 6 planning that war room, which was designed to try and pressure the former Vice President Mike Pence to overturn the election results as elector -- as the members of Congress had gathered here to certify the election results.

The committee, though, has made it clear they will use every tool they have to get these people to comply and to answer their tough questions. As you point out, Victor, the decision by Merrick Garland and the Department of Justice as it relates to Steve Bannon will -- probably going a long way to determine whether or not they're able to enforce these subpoenas.

CAMEROTA: We're going to talk more about what went on inside that war room.

Ryan Nobles, thank you for the reporting.

OK, let's take a closer look at those six Trump loyalists who were subpoenaed and what they know.

Joining us now, CNN politics reporter Chris Cillizza.

So, Chris, walk us through how these six are connected to the insurrection.

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes, absolutely, Alisyn, no problem.

All right, first of all, let's just start basic. See, we -- I'm just going to go through everyone who was subpoenaed yesterday. Michael Flynn. We know he was part of campaign events, John Eastman, memo author. I'm going to do this fast because I'm coming back. Jason Miller, Angela McCallum, who was Trump's executive assistant on the campaign, and Bill Stepien, who's the campaign manager. That's what's -- how can I forget? Bernie Kerik was the sixth, right,

former New York City police -- head of the police, was involved in campaign events.

OK, so you say, well, what did -- we know this. What do we think each of them do? Why is the January 6 Committee interested? All right, well, let's start with Flynn. We know he was Donald Trump's national security adviser for about two-and-a-half Scaramuccis, 25 days or so. Not very long.

He was involved in this meeting December 18, this strategy meeting in the Oval Office as it related to what Donald Trump could do to block the election results. He floated invoking martial law. And he has to have his documents to the committee by November 23.

[14:05:04]

But I would say Ryan has the right point here. Steve Bannon is going to set a lot of precedent for what this committee can and can't do.

I want to play you something from Michael Flynn. This is Michael Flynn on Newsmax. Let's just hit -- me -- let me hit play here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. GEN. MICHAEL FLYNN (RET.), FORMER U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: He could order the -- within the swing states, if he wanted to, he could take military capabilities, and he could place them in those states and basically rerun an election in each of those states.

I mean, it's not unprecedented. I mean, these people out there talking about martial law, it's like it's something that we have never done. We have done -- martial law has been instituted 64 -- 64 times.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CILLIZZA: Yes. So that might be why they want to talk to Michael Flynn, the invoking of martial law.

Let's keep moving. All right, so you saw John Eastman earlier. This is a lawyer who honestly most people didn't know much about during the campaign, but he is the one who drafted the six-point memo to Donald Trump outlining what Mike Pence could do to overturn the election.

So he's the metal author, obviously, huge interest in him. Same kind of thing, documents due by November 22. All right, now we go to Jason Miller. Jason Miller was a comms guy, a communications guy, who handled a lot of stuff for the Trump campaign. He stayed on with Trump afterward.

And you heard Ryan mentioned the Willard Hotel. So you're going to see this in a couple other sides. January 5, there was a meeting. The day before, there was a meeting that Jason Miller was at of the top advisers to Trump about sort of what they could do the next day. Obviously, that's why they want to talk to Jason Miller. Now, Angela McCallum is probably a name most people don't know. She was not as out front as Michael Flynn, or Jason Miller, or Steve Bannon. But she was Trump's executive assistant. Now, there's a phone call out there to a Michigan state legislator that a woman saying she was Angela McCallum wants that legislator to consider overturning the results in the state and seating a group of electors in Michigan that are pro-Trump.

So that would be my guess in what they're interested in her for, but she's lesser known. Then we go to two people. Look, Bill Stepien, interestingly, this is a guy who has been in politics a very long time. He wound up being the manager at the end of the Trump campaign. You obviously, remember Brad Parscale was the manager. He got fired. Stepien steps in.

He was involved in a lot of this stuff right after the election. You will remember down from producing huge amounts of money to fund these legal challenges, all of which failed, but these legal challenges to the result. So Stepien is involved in that way post-election pre- January 6. So we will see what he did.

And last, but certainly not least, is Bernie Kerik. As Ryan mentioned, he vociferously said, I'm not going to play along with this committee. I'm not going to do that.

But he is a former Trump adviser, he too -- again, you keep coming back to this -- present at that January 5 meeting. That meeting, I think, getting inside the room of that meeting is what a lot of this is about, a lot of subpoenas are about. My guess is a lot of the future subpoenas we're going to see you're going to be about people who either were at that meeting or called into it or knew about it and what they knew, because, obviously, that was 24 hours before this cataclysm for American democracy happened.

So that's all of them. That's all six of them. We do expect more. But that's what we know about who's been subpoenaed thus far.

BLACKWELL: All right, Chris Cillizza walking us through every step of the six, thank you so much.

Let's bring in our CNN legal analyst Carrie Cordero. She's former counsel to the assistant attorney general for national security.

Carrie, good to have you back. Let's start here with the meeting on January 5. And I think Chris laid it out. If you want to get to the spread of the lie and potentially what many of the people who showed up there on the 6th were thinking, you have got to go inside this room.

The importance of these six people?

CARRIE CORDERO, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: That's right.

So, as Chris laid out, this meeting was the day before the riot and the attack on the Capitol. And so this gets to the set of individuals who were involved in planning, coordinating, who were knowledgeable about what was going to happen.

So, contrary to the narrative that the attack on the Capitol was spontaneous, was just an action of those particular individuals who were involved and engaged in violence and engaged in the insurrection, in fact, there was this network of people who were very close advisers to the president who were most likely knowledgeable about it and potentially part of the planning of it.

And so that's why that meeting is important. That's why these individuals are important. And that's why the committee which is conducting an investigation into what led to the events of January 6 has subpoenaed all of them.

CAMEROTA: Carrie, help us understand something. You were at the Department of Justice.

So help the rest of us understand why this is a tough decision or seemingly tough decision, or at least a slow decision, not an immediate decision...

BLACKWELL: There we go.

CAMEROTA: ... for Attorney General Merrick Garland, because, from the outside, Steve Bannon defying a subpoena, it seems like none of us could do that. We can't -- regular people can't do that. So where is the tough part about deciding whether or not to move forward with prosecuting him?

[14:10:02]

CORDERO: So I think there's a few complications, Alisyn.

So, first of all, yes, the facts, when we just look at them objectively, the facts seem pretty straightforward. He has been subpoenaed to appear and produce information. He is not doing that. The committee has given him time. And so if you look at the text of the statute that covers referral for criminal contempt of Congress, it seems to fit.

Where the Justice Department has to be cautious and deliberate in its approach is, it has to make sure that both in practice its analysis of the facts to determine whether to prosecute are objective and the normal order of business. So a prosecutor needs to review the facts and determine whether or not it would be appropriate to prosecute.

The worst thing that the Justice Department would want at this stage is to appear as if they are making a prosecutorial decision based on the politics. And that is why they are neither going to rush, nor unduly delay this decision.

But, in my view, it has to go through the regular order of process, which would be a prosecutor, who then would make a recommendation to the U.S. attorney. And then because of the political sensitivity of this, likely, it will go up to either the deputy attorney general or the attorney general. But these types of referrals for criminal contempt are not common. And

so this is not something that is a prosecutorial decision made every day.

BLACKWELL: All right, control room, put the graphic up with those six faces again of those who have just been subpoenaed. Thank you very much.

So we saw from Jeffrey Clark from DOJ just a couple of days ago show up before the committee, read a letter that says he's waiting for a decision on former President Trump's claim of privilege and a judge to weigh in on that.

Does that decision play in at all to these six who were not in any form of government service, although they may claim some privilege, from your perspective, to protect them from having to produce documents or testify?

CORDERO: In my view, it shouldn't.

So these -- the individuals who are the subject of the most recent set of subpoenas, none of them were working for the government at that time. And executive privilege is normally interpreted to apply to advice that's being provided within the executive branch itself.

So while some of them might potentially make an argument that that case is relevant to theirs, I don't think, as a matter of law or fact, it really is.

CAMEROTA: OK, Carrie Cordero, thank you.

CORDERO: Thanks, Alisyn, Victor.

CAMEROTA: OK, these heartbroken families are now speaking out after their loved ones were killed at the Astroworld music festival.

BLACKWELL: And new details about the hospitalized victims, including a 9-year-old boy in a medically induced coma. The latest on the investigation as well next.

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[14:17:14]

CAMEROTA: A Texas man says his grandson was trampled so severely at the Astroworld concert, the 9-year-old boy had a heart attack. That boy is now in a medically induced coma.

Houston's Fire Department says two people are still in critical condition after the crowd surge during rap star Travis Scott's performance. The 9-year-old family says the child was on his father's shoulders when the dad passed out and the boy fell into the mayhem.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BERNON BLOUNT, GRANDFATHER OF VICTIM: With holding Ezra up, that left him vulnerable down. So he got really squeezed. And he couldn't breathe. He kept -- he just told me: "Dad, I couldn't breathe."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Well, so far, at least 18 lawsuits have been filed.

And sources tell "The Wall Street Journal" that investigators are now looking at whether some fake pills laced with fentanyl played a part in some of the deaths or the injuries.

And we have also learned that Travis Scott will not perform at the Las Vegas Music Festival this weekend.

CNN's Rosa Flores is in Houston for us.

Today. We know that the family of one of the victims spoke to CNN about the heroism of their brother.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Victor, this is just absolutely heartbreaking.

This is 27-year-old Danish Baig. He lost his life during this tragedy, and his family telling CNN that he was trying to save his fiancee at the moment when he died. His fiancee was being stomped on. And they say that he was just an incredible human being and that he should not have died this way.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIRZA AMMAR BAIG, BROTHER OF VICTIM: I love my brother, Danish.

He's -- I'm the older brother, but he was the older brother to me. He led this family in a direction that I couldn't have done in any other way. And he's the pole. He's everything of our family. And that person is not there anymore.

To wake up and not be able to hear his voice, to touch him, to kiss him, to tell him how much we love him, it's not going to happen anymore.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FLORES: It's absolutely heartbreaking.

Eight people died in this tragedy. They have all been identified. According to the medical examiner, toxicology reports are going to take weeks. Cause and manner of deaths have not been released yet.

Now, according to the fire chief here in Houston, three individuals are still in the hospital, two of them in critical condition, this as we learned of at least 18 lawsuits that have been filed. Now, some of these lawsuits claim negligence, gross negligence, that the organizers of this concert organized this, but it was not done safely, that people were not able to enjoy themselves safely, that some of them got trampled on. [14:20:04]

Now, some of the defendants in these cases are Live Nation, Travis Scott, Drake, ScoreMore, the promoter, NRG.

CNN has reached out to all of these defendants asking for comment. Nobody has commented yet on the actual lawsuit. And, Alisyn and Victor, of course, they have all sent out a statements saying that their hearts go out to the victims in this case -- Alisyn, Victor.

BLACKWELL: Rosa Flores for us in Houston there.

Rosa, thank you very much.

Joining us now, the chief of the Houston fire department, Samuel Pena.

Chief Pena, thank you for your time.

You listen to those stories, a 9-year-old boy in a medically induced coma, that family talking about their lost brother. They want some answers on how this happened. So what is the latest you can tell us about the investigation?

SAMUEL PENA, HOUSTON, TEXAS, FIRE CHIEF: Yes, Victor, first of all, look, our prayers go out to the families of the deceased and those that are injured and still hospitalized.

The investigation is ongoing right now. We still don't have all the specifics of what's happening. But it's a -- we're trying to really sift through all that information. The Houston Police Department is the primary agency that will be leading this investigation. But we will be cooperating fully in terms of our resources and what we did in that operation.

And everything will be turned over to Houston Police Department, so they can conduct a fair, thorough investigation, because, look, we owe it to these families. And it's the right thing to do for everybody involved.

BLACKWELL: What do you know about the reporting from "The Wall Street Journal" about these fake pills laced with fentanyl and their potential role in what happened on Friday night?

PENA: Look, I know as much as you know right now.

We have heard about that. We -- there is evidence that there was drugs involved, but I don't know exactly what they were. All that is going to be fleshed out, I believe, after the investigation. I do know, Victor, that we administer lots of Narcan. And Narcan is the medication used to counter an opioid overdose.

We carry it. The Houston Fire Department's paramedics carry it. The doctors that we had embedded with the SWAT team there at the event carry that medication. And the private company that was hired to provide the medical service for the event carries that medication. And having said that, I want to be clear that just because we

administered lots of Narcan doesn't mean that overdoses were prevalent. That is a medication that we administer when somebody is unconscious, and we don't know what the genesis of that situation is.

So we give it to try to rule things out. If we give it and it's an opioid overdose, it can reverse it. Even if it wasn't, it doesn't hurt the patient.

BLACKWELL: Understood. Understood.

Let me ask you about communication...

PENA: Right.

BLACKWELL: ... and the communication between your firefighters outside the venue and the promoters, the organizers inside the venue.

Any reports of problems of communications between those two?

PENA: Well, look, first of all, the venue was -- the medical component was being handled inside the venue by a contracted private company, Paradocs.

From what I understand, they're a reputable organization. I don't know enough about them. But we had communications outside the plan where we were in direct communications with the Houston Police Department and we were in communications with the Harris County Emergency Corps, which was providing some of the transport units for that event.

We were also in -- I'm sorry -- in phone communication with Paradocs, which was the private company providing the medical component. There was a lot of communication, a lot of chatter, and as you can expect in an incident that gets complex, there was a lot of radio communication.

So was it challenging? It was at times, but we were able to overcome and deploy unit resources efficiently when the need arose.

BLACKWELL: Did you have any direct communications with the organizers from Houston Fire Department and the organizers of this event? You talked about the police. You talked about the medical organization, but with those organizers, were there communications between the two?

PENA: No, we didn't have -- on scene, we did not have direct communications with those organizers, no.

BLACKWELL: OK. OK.

So let's talk more about the event on a broader scale. This is not the first time that there's been some chaos, danger at a Travis Scott concert. Let's run through a few of them, 2015, charged with disorderly conduct after encouraging fans in Chicago to ignore security and rush the stage.

2017, Scott saw a fan hanging from a balcony and tried to persuade that person to jump. Same concert, another fan was paralyzed after being pushed off a third-floor balcony. 2019, fans at Astroworld rushed the barriers. Three people went to the hospital with injuries. Police later wrote on Twitter that the promoters did not plan sufficiently for large crowds. That was later taken down.

[14:25:24]

Should this have been foreseen? And should this have been considered when potentially deciding on a permit for this event?

PENA: Yes, well, listen, this is -- it's important to understand that the NRG, where the venue was held, is -- or where the event was held, is a is a county facility.

This was a county-sanctioned event, and they gave the permit or the authority to, to have that venue there. The owner hires the private companies for security, and they hire the medical component.

BLACKWELL: Understood.

PENA: But, to your question, Victor, yes, we did anticipate certain things.

That is the reason that, from our position, I had staff lean forward in this operation, based on the experiences we had in similar events and with this particular event in 2019, where we prepositioned an incident commander, a command post on the footprint, and we had some resources there that were monitoring radio communications and monitoring the activities in case things escalated.

So, we always have to plan for contingency. And we did just that. In this case, it was the -- it was good and it was the right thing to do, because as soon as the -- started getting complex, we were able to quickly muster resources and deploy them into the zone and start making an impact on these patients.

BLACKWELL: Yes, Chief, let me ask you one more here. We had on Paul Wertheimer yesterday. He's part of the task force that investigated after the Who tragedy, 11 people died, in 1979.

He's run an event safety consulting firm for the last 30 years. And this is what he said about the investigation into what happened on Friday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL WERTHEIMER, FOUNDER, CROWD MANAGEMENT STRATEGIES: And the public's right to have a proper investigation, they're not going to get one here.

You need a parallel independent investigation going on, along with the police. I believe the police have shown prejudice towards the promoter. And I believe that Travis Scott is being set up as a scapegoat. I'm not excusing what he did. I think he had a role. But he didn't have the other role. Only -- he didn't have the only role.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLACKWELL: Low on time, but I got two things here. Would you like to see a parallel independent investigation? And your reaction to what else you heard there?

PENA: Yes, well, first of all, let me just say this, that Chief Finner, the chief for the Houston Police Department, is an honorable individual and a professional.

And I have full confidence in his ability to lead a fair and impartial investigation to this issue, because, like me, he wants to ensure that we get down to the root cause of this issue. It's -- the community deserves it, and certainly the families that were impacted by this tragedy deserve that.

Now, if there is another agency that is approved to come in and do the investigation, I mean, if you're asking me my opinion, I don't know that that would be a bad thing. But, again, this is something that the Houston Police Department is focused on getting to the bottom of.

And they are true professionals. And I have full confidence in their ability to do and conduct a fair and impartial and thorough investigation to get down to the root cause.

BLACKWELL: All right, Chief Samuel Pena of the Houston Fire Department, thank you so much for your time.

PENA: Thank you all. Be safe.

CAMEROTA: OK, now to this story. Gas prices hit a seven-year high, and the White House is taking the brunt of the blame. But what can the president actually do to bring down the cost?

That's next.

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